Guild Wars 2

The 5-man Healing limit nerf has basically trashed any sort of group healing in WvW. The only reliable heal now is on yourself.

I was trying to protect a ram operator at a siege on my Guardian, by using my staff skills (Empower and the Orb of Light) and my Heal on Dodge. However, no matter, what I did I could not seem to heal the guy. The heals would always go to someone else. It was incredibly frustrating.

If ArenaNet is not going to reverse the 5-man heal nerf, then targeted heals have to be introduced. Otherwise, group healing is no longer viable in their game.

Disagree personally.

There are many, many drawbacks to introducing targeted healing into this combat system. You could keep guild claiming NPCs up indefinitely, etc etc.

It’s a limitation; adapt to it. There are things a co-ordianted group can do to mitigate this stuff.

Parthis.2091:

Disagree personally.

There are many, many drawbacks to introducing targeted healing into this combat system. You could keep guild claiming NPCs up indefinitely, etc etc.

It’s a limitation; adapt to it. There are things a co-ordianted group can do to mitigate this stuff.

Like what?

Other protection skills are now also limited to 5 men.

Like if you have a mindless melee ball getting in the way of healing your ram operators, get them away from the gate. It’s not like they’re doing much there anyway, and they’d make better scouts.

So, the net result is consistent healing where it’s needed (siege operators) and a considerably smaller chance of being rushed.

“Other protection skills are now also limited to 5 men.”

Yes… indeed. I mean this in the nicest possible way; there isn’t another button to press, players need to get out of this mentality. Adjust your strategies, as ultimately, these changes were made as a result of the strategy you’re clinging to (i.e. spam healing a stack of players without thought).

It would be nice to have targeted heals, but Anet has been pretty clear that they hate targeted healing more than puppy kickers and quaggan jerky manufacturers, so I am not surprised that they made it even more difficult to do so.

Some of the heals with smaller AOE radius, like traited symbols and blowing up the orb of light or shield of absorption still kind of work reliably. Trying to heal with virtue of resolve is totally hopeless now. The best thing I can think of it to tell people who are just melee’ing the gates or standing next to the ram pondering about dinner to step back, so they don’t randomly trigger the favor of the fickle goddess of random healing.

Parthis.2091:

Like if you have a mindless melee ball getting in the way of healing your ram operators, get them away from the gate. It’s not like they’re doing much there anyway, and they’d make better scouts.

So, the net result is consistent healing where it’s needed (siege operators) and a considerably smaller chance of being rushed.

“Other protection skills are now also limited to 5 men.”

Yes… indeed. I mean this in the nicest possible way; there isn’t another button to press, players need to get out of this mentality. Adjust your strategies, as ultimately, these changes were made as a result of the strategy you’re clinging to (i.e. spam healing a stack of players without thought).

Nope, it’s nothing to do with spam healing.

It’s just trying to heal the guy standing right next to me.

A game is broken if you can’t heal the guy standing right beside you.

Thrumdi.9216:

Parthis.2091:

Like if you have a mindless melee ball getting in the way of healing your ram operators, get them away from the gate. It’s not like they’re doing much there anyway, and they’d make better scouts.

So, the net result is consistent healing where it’s needed (siege operators) and a considerably smaller chance of being rushed.

“Other protection skills are now also limited to 5 men.”

Yes… indeed. I mean this in the nicest possible way; there isn’t another button to press, players need to get out of this mentality. Adjust your strategies, as ultimately, these changes were made as a result of the strategy you’re clinging to (i.e. spam healing a stack of players without thought).

Nope, it’s nothing to do with spam healing.

It’s just trying to heal the guy standing right next to me.

A game is broken if you can’t heal the guy standing right beside you.

Broken?

No. Targeted healing would break this game in lots of subtle, odd ways.

Did you even consider any of the reasons why this change was made, and what you could change to counter it?

You’re not a healer. You’re a support class that can spike out emergency healing if needed, but you’re going to have to work for it. Again the point remains; if you want to heal the ram guys, get your mindless door beaters away from them and heal the ram guys. Co-ordiante better. That’s the difference between a zerg and a great team.

In all PvP games I saw and played, healing was just destroying the game because skilled/organised peoples learn to make unkillable teams with them.

The Time To Kill is atm good enough and everybody is killable so it’s good without pure healing.

Thrumdi.9216:

It’s just trying to heal the guy standing right next to me.

A game is broken if you can’t heal the guy standing right beside you.

I heal my friends specifically quite often. Though, we almost never dig into the middle of a zerg, we set up our own little battery off to a side. We contribute more making ourselves a separate target away from the group and handling shooters on the wall or intercepting portal bombers or other anti siege. It was mentioned above, if an attack is being handled that poorly it’s best to stand back or find some place else anyway.

Thrumdi.9216:

The 5-man Healing limit nerf has basically trashed any sort of group healing in WvW. The only reliable heal now is on yourself.

I was trying to protect a ram operator at a siege on my Guardian, by using my staff skills (Empower and the Orb of Light) and my Heal on Dodge. However, no matter, what I did I could not seem to heal the guy. The heals would always go to someone else. It was incredibly frustrating.

If ArenaNet is not going to reverse the 5-man heal nerf, then targeted heals have to be introduced. Otherwise, group healing is no longer viable in their game.

The way the game is set up you are suppose to heal yourself if the ram operator is being hit he needs to leave the ram and heal up while another member of the group/zerg takes over control of the ram. it can be annoying but its the way its set up I prefer it to just being a mindless healbot standing back hitting a button when x amount of health is missing off the guy on the ram.

If you want to heal the ram operator drop the zerg attitude and get some teamwork going. It might take some practice but in the end it will be alot more fun then running around like headless chickens

Thrumdi.9216:

The 5-man Healing limit nerf has basically trashed any sort of group healing in WvW. The only reliable heal now is on yourself.

I was trying to protect a ram operator at a siege on my Guardian, by using my staff skills (Empower and the Orb of Light) and my Heal on Dodge. However, no matter, what I did I could not seem to heal the guy. The heals would always go to someone else. It was incredibly frustrating.

If ArenaNet is not going to reverse the 5-man heal nerf, then targeted heals have to be introduced. Otherwise, group healing is no longer viable in their game.

Wvw, spvp, and other things, would be completely dependent on a healer class. i for one do not want to go back to a game where you cannot do anything anywhere without someone spamming heals on you.

Thrumdi.9216:

Parthis.2091:

Like if you have a mindless melee ball getting in the way of healing your ram operators, get them away from the gate. It’s not like they’re doing much there anyway, and they’d make better scouts.

So, the net result is consistent healing where it’s needed (siege operators) and a considerably smaller chance of being rushed.

“Other protection skills are now also limited to 5 men.”

Yes… indeed. I mean this in the nicest possible way; there isn’t another button to press, players need to get out of this mentality. Adjust your strategies, as ultimately, these changes were made as a result of the strategy you’re clinging to (i.e. spam healing a stack of players without thought).

Nope, it’s nothing to do with spam healing.

It’s just trying to heal the guy standing right next to me.

A game is broken if you can’t heal the guy standing right beside you.

Invite the ram operators to a group? I think your abilities will hit group members first. It’s not an ideal solution, but it should work.

If you think this game is broken because you cannot direct heal, then this game is not for you. It was not designed for direct healing.

If the ram operators need heals then what is damaging them? Oil? Have ranged take it down. Other players on the walls? Counter with ranged or mortars. Or back off the door and hit it with catapults.

Parthis.2091:

Thrumdi.9216:

Parthis.2091:

Like if you have a mindless melee ball getting in the way of healing your ram operators, get them away from the gate. It’s not like they’re doing much there anyway, and they’d make better scouts.

So, the net result is consistent healing where it’s needed (siege operators) and a considerably smaller chance of being rushed.

“Other protection skills are now also limited to 5 men.”

Yes… indeed. I mean this in the nicest possible way; there isn’t another button to press, players need to get out of this mentality. Adjust your strategies, as ultimately, these changes were made as a result of the strategy you’re clinging to (i.e. spam healing a stack of players without thought).

Nope, it’s nothing to do with spam healing.

It’s just trying to heal the guy standing right next to me.

A game is broken if you can’t heal the guy standing right beside you.

Broken?

No. Targeted healing would break this game in lots of subtle, odd ways.

Did you even consider any of the reasons why this change was made, and what you could change to counter it?

You’re not a healer. You’re a support class that can spike out emergency healing if needed, but you’re going to have to work for it. Again the point remains; if you want to heal the ram guys, get your mindless door beaters away from them and heal the ram guys. Co-ordiante better. That’s the difference between a zerg and a great team.

But this is ludicrous.

To heal one specific person, you have to ask everyone else to move away from that person so they can be isolated. Only then can you reliably heal that one person.

Do you have any idea how dumb that is? That a game would make you do that is a sign it’s broken.

Targeted heal is not the best solution, but it’s definitely better than something that dumb.

Thrumdi.9216:

Parthis.2091:

Thrumdi.9216:

Parthis.2091:

Like if you have a mindless melee ball getting in the way of healing your ram operators, get them away from the gate. It’s not like they’re doing much there anyway, and they’d make better scouts.

So, the net result is consistent healing where it’s needed (siege operators) and a considerably smaller chance of being rushed.

“Other protection skills are now also limited to 5 men.”

Yes… indeed. I mean this in the nicest possible way; there isn’t another button to press, players need to get out of this mentality. Adjust your strategies, as ultimately, these changes were made as a result of the strategy you’re clinging to (i.e. spam healing a stack of players without thought).

Nope, it’s nothing to do with spam healing.

It’s just trying to heal the guy standing right next to me.

A game is broken if you can’t heal the guy standing right beside you.

Broken?

No. Targeted healing would break this game in lots of subtle, odd ways.

Did you even consider any of the reasons why this change was made, and what you could change to counter it?

You’re not a healer. You’re a support class that can spike out emergency healing if needed, but you’re going to have to work for it. Again the point remains; if you want to heal the ram guys, get your mindless door beaters away from them and heal the ram guys. Co-ordiante better. That’s the difference between a zerg and a great team.

But this is ludicrous.

To heal one specific person, you have to ask everyone else to move away from that person so they can be isolated. Only then can you reliably heal that one person.

Do you have any idea how dumb that is? That a game would make you do that is a sign it’s broken.

Targeted heal is not the best solution, but it’s definitely better than something that dumb.

I can see that no one here is going to convince you that targeted healing would be a mistake in this game.

You’re not a healer. Stop thinking “I’m going to heal that guy”. You’re a support guy. Like the Mesmer that brings condition stripping, or the Ele that brings AoE healing, or the Warrior that brings Banner res.

The guy dying has a responsibility to keep himself alive. If he’s dying while operating a ram, then there’s oil up, or defenders that need to be mitigated by co-ordinated play. If you can’t heal that guy because your big ole ball of warriors are rubbing their mighty weapons pointlessly against a gate, tell them to move. That’s not stupid, that’s not broken, that’s not dumb; this isn’t a trinity game, you aren’t playing the role of the healer.

So, once more, adding what you’re asking for would be a monumentally stupid idea. Not a single post in your own thread is in support of your idea, so please, stop picking fault with the things you should be doing and start doing them. If you’re zerging mindlessly then you’re not going to get what you want. Organise, mitigate or nullify the sources of damage before reaching for the healing buttons (bubbles, feedback, null fields, reflective walls, AoE healing from multiple sources, better positioning so heals land, scouting to avoid a portal hit or zerg rush, siege nuked to protect your own siege operators, etc etc etc).

I’ve played a healer in every single mmo and loved it.

I miss targeted heals in all of them and would love it in gw2.

However, the game advertised itself as a trinity-breaker, and I think it’d be unfair to many players who bought the game to go back on that. As much as I miss targeted healing, I came into gw2 knowing we wouldn’t have them so I can’t bring myself to hope they change it.

Also I must add that there are many ways to heal and protect teammates In the game. It may not be targeted heals but I think many of the games methods promote a higher level of awareness, which is good.

Shlamorel.8714:

I’ve played a healer in every single mmo and loved it.

I miss targeted heals in all of them and would love it in gw2.

However, the game advertised itself as a trinity-breaker, and I think it’d be unfair to many players who bought the game to go back on that. As much as I miss targeted healing, I came into gw2 knowing we wouldn’t have them so I can’t bring myself to hope they change it.

Also I must add that there are many ways to heal and protect teammates In the game. It may not be targeted heals but I think many of the games methods promote a higher level of awareness, which is good.

But no one is arguing for the return of the trinity.

Healing other people does not equal the trinity. Just as blocking damage intended for an ally does not equal tanking.

ArenaNet launched with the ability for some classes to spec more into a support role, including healing others. They even told people if you like the Monk in GW1, you should play the Guardian. However, the new 5-man limit has broken group healing.

Now, either they can be clear that they don’t want anyone to effectively heal others in the game. Or, they can make so you can again effectively heal others. The best way to do this is probably to up the 5-man limit. If that’s not possible, the only other solution is target heals.

I see the problem of the issue. How ever I’d say no to targeted healing.

The solution is to have the ram operator with draw to heal up and some one take their place until the first guy is back to full health.

If the position of where the ram is located is being heavily bombarded by AOE that you cannot do the above. Then the smart thing to do is not use a ram.

Smart Healing : it heals the 5 in most need of it.
implement this please.

Psy.6153:

Smart Healing : it heals the 5 in most need of it.
implement this please.

I love the fact they limited it but I agree with this post.
Low HP player> Mid HP player >If everyone full then heals a pet =P
I really wasn’t a fan of the bunkering going on, however made more specs viable in wvw. With the last change though running lots of heal gear/traits feels less rewarding.
Also feel they overkilled it some by going from unlimited targets to 5… smart heals would be a nice medium, and possibly ramping the number up 1 or 2 more.

^ I was just thinking that. So many people complained when they changed one part of their game, and then still more are arguing for points to break other parts of it.

Few people seem to be willing to understand the limitations and capabilities of the system we have and find the best ways to work with it. =T

If you give it a shot, you can find some interesting ways to play that break out of the traditional rpg notions. It can lead to some very interesting gameplay developments.

(Hint, this is how strategies like mesmer-portals, stacking, etc were thought up.)

Don’t bother with trying to do effective healing. It’s a numbers game, get more numbers.

Thrumdi.9216:

Shlamorel.8714:

I’ve played a healer in every single mmo and loved it.

I miss targeted heals in all of them and would love it in gw2.

However, the game advertised itself as a trinity-breaker, and I think it’d be unfair to many players who bought the game to go back on that. As much as I miss targeted healing, I came into gw2 knowing we wouldn’t have them so I can’t bring myself to hope they change it.

Also I must add that there are many ways to heal and protect teammates In the game. It may not be targeted heals but I think many of the games methods promote a higher level of awareness, which is good.

But no one is arguing for the return of the trinity.

Healing other people does not equal the trinity. Just as blocking damage intended for an ally does not equal tanking.

ArenaNet launched with the ability for some classes to spec more into a support role, including healing others. They even told people if you like the Monk in GW1, you should play the Guardian. However, the new 5-man limit has broken group healing.

Now, either they can be clear that they don’t want anyone to effectively heal others in the game. Or, they can make so you can again effectively heal others. The best way to do this is probably to up the 5-man limit. If that’s not possible, the only other solution is target heals.

I should have said dedicated healers rather than using the broad trinity term, my apologies.

The 5 player limit on heals is not really what I was trying to get at with my response so much as I was getting at the ability to target heal someone quickly. So I don’t really have anything else to contribute to the topic. I mean the limit does kinda stink, but I also see how it promotes other types of gameplay and strategy.

Regardless, I enjoy stacking boon duration and heAling power and keeping my allies topped off and buffed up to mitigate damage. It’s definitely a different type of play than I’m used to – still getting used to it.

I disagree with targeted heals as everyone should be doing their part. Yes some classes dont have heals for group, but they have other things they can do. If its not healing its popping shouts, or group stealth, or feedback etc etc.

Shouldnt be on one person’s shoulders to keep a guy on a ram up, the entire group should help.

Even with the 5 man limit, I do just fine.

Be better at positioning yourself in relation to the people you want to heal and that is your targeting.

Thrumdi.9216:

It’s just trying to heal the guy standing right next to me.

A game is broken if you can’t heal the guy standing right beside you.

Once they go into downed state (you know that terrible mechanic that punishes fighting people while outnumbered) everyone gets to be an uber healer of the guy standing right beside you!

I hope targeted heals NEVER happen in this game. Learn to be self-sufficient.

The problem with 5 man healing is that the heal heals 5 of ANYTHING. That includes pets and little minions which is waste if you’re trying to heal someone

No no NO! We do NOT want to go down that path. That’s what will lead to forced roles and a more trinity like playstyle that this game is not based around. Dungeons and other content would need to be re-balanced to account for targeted healing, which would in turn balance things away from everyone else. Bad idea.

Thrumdi.9216:

Parthis.2091:

Thrumdi.9216:

Parthis.2091:

Like if you have a mindless melee ball getting in the way of healing your ram operators, get them away from the gate. It’s not like they’re doing much there anyway, and they’d make better scouts.

So, the net result is consistent healing where it’s needed (siege operators) and a considerably smaller chance of being rushed.

“Other protection skills are now also limited to 5 men.”

Yes… indeed. I mean this in the nicest possible way; there isn’t another button to press, players need to get out of this mentality. Adjust your strategies, as ultimately, these changes were made as a result of the strategy you’re clinging to (i.e. spam healing a stack of players without thought).

Nope, it’s nothing to do with spam healing.

It’s just trying to heal the guy standing right next to me.

A game is broken if you can’t heal the guy standing right beside you.

Broken?

No. Targeted healing would break this game in lots of subtle, odd ways.

Did you even consider any of the reasons why this change was made, and what you could change to counter it?

You’re not a healer. You’re a support class that can spike out emergency healing if needed, but you’re going to have to work for it. Again the point remains; if you want to heal the ram guys, get your mindless door beaters away from them and heal the ram guys. Co-ordiante better. That’s the difference between a zerg and a great team.

But this is ludicrous.

To heal one specific person, you have to ask everyone else to move away from that person so they can be isolated. Only then can you reliably heal that one person.

Do you have any idea how dumb that is? That a game would make you do that is a sign it’s broken.

Targeted heal is not the best solution, but it’s definitely better than something that dumb.

There’s marks to be set, wells to be placed, healing springs to be placed … Almost every class has AoE heals. And in a smart team you have two or three rams at the doors + 1 or 2 supporters. If you cannot coordinate that simple strategy via chat if need be and get a ranger or a guardian or an elementalist to place heals and the rest of extras to clear the path … seriously … your TEAM deserves to lose. Never forget – WvW ultimately is a team against team competition – and if you have one smart person who knows what should b done and the rest of the team clueless and unwilling to co-operate …

Sorry to break it to you, but have more options in a game makes it last longer, and bring in more gamers. You have basically alienated a rather larger part of the gamer pie by removing healers. That alone maybe lost you a few hundred thousand dollars.

The devs can have all kind of plans in their heads but someone needs to remind them about bottom line, more players = more money.

Dead players = frustrated players. Frustration meets with one of two reactions, either people get together and try to figure out how to improve their game play.. or they quit.

So now the question is, What is the % of your player base that ends up reacting with option 1, and what % is reacting with option 2?

Regardless of these facts, I’m sure people will come here and keep bashing healers, saying healers would ruin the game. The game has a lot of unhealthy aspects going on right now, and to be honest… I have a pretty bad feeling that it’s going to keep losing players.

Predator.7321:

The problem with 5 man healing is that the heal heals 5 of ANYTHING. That includes pets and little minions which is waste if you’re trying to heal someone

yes. We do not need targeted heals.

But we do need a clear order of importance on who gets healed.

full targets=/=heal
self>yaks>Players>pets>random npcs.
Starting from center of aoe moving out. 100>200>300, etc.

So, an aoe heal on top of yourself, with a yak at 300, and 10 players at varying ranges will the same targets specifically, until full.
Yourself, players within 100, yak at 200, players at 200, players at 300, pets at 100, pets at 200, etc..

Did you ever wonder why they needed to apply this nerf? do you realize how much healing could be done in a large ball like that vs the damage? Say you have 50 people meleeing the door and elementalist on the wall drops an AOE. He does damage to 5 people per tick. You toss out an AOE heal and it potentially effects all 50 assuming there is anything to heal. It does not take much imagination to see how quickly unlimited AOE healing of that nature could quickly outpace incoming damage.

Healing in this game was not designed to have the majority of it come from external sources. It was designed to have the lions share of healing come from each players healing skill with external sources being relatively small amounts in comparison to incoming damage and the self heal. Prenerf it only took a few people healing to completely throw off that design in a large group.

The game is also not designed around just flat out soaking damage and healing it up, its about preventing the damage. Dont try to heal through the damage to your ram opperator try to kill off whats hurting him. Failing that back off the door and use longer range siege. Hint, catapults have uses asside from hammering the back side of a door to kill rams/melee balls

Merendel is right. We do not need targeted heals.