Guild Wars 2

WvW is so broken. There are no more fights on the BL’s and EBG. People just sit in keeps and kitten on siege.

1. Get rid of the Airships on SMC – it is too OP and you can’t do anything about it (defensively for the group attacking SMC).

2. As keeps upgrade, make the siege cap lower. It is too easy to protect a keep with one or two people against a blob.

3. Get rid of PvE from the BL’s (the Oasis event comes to mind). It makes dealing with other BL’s too hard if you have always come back to your own BL.

4. Get rid of all Shield Generators. They make getting keeps, etc impossible.

5. Fortified Walls and Gates are too hard to break down – it takes 5 min to get through the walls/gates if you are a small havoc group (using one Superior Cata or Treb).

6. Get rid of the Emergency WP’s – it makes getting keeps impossible for the opposing team as the defending team can just WP in at the end and wipe the opposing team.

There are too many siege kitteners now and that makes WvW no longer fun.

WE NEED THE WVW PATCH NOW! You will end up losing more of the WvW population than you already have.

but the patch won’t magically pop up by demanding it now
anet pretty much planned late and delivered late, the result is wvw rapid decline with no counter measure

SkyShroud.2865:

but the patch won’t magically pop up by demanding it now
anet pretty much planned late and delivered late, the result is wvw rapid decline with no counter measure

A.Net said that WvW was going to be the main focus after HoT dropped and they were working on a patch then back then (more than just new BL’s). If it comes later this year, it may be too late to save WvW aspect of GW2. It is that simple.

If they want players in WvW, they neeD to work on it and listen to the WvW players, not PvE players.

Dusty Moon.4382:

WvW is so broken. There are no more fights on the BL’s and EBG. People just sit in keeps and kitten on siege.

A patch won’t fix a leadership problem. People sitting insides keeps is typically a result of two things 1) players unwilling to tag up and lead and 2) players unwilling to follow tags. The number of players willing to tag up is becoming less and less unfortunately and the number of WvW guilds are shrinking as WvW gets more casual. IMHO it will get worse, not better. PvX guilds do not have large or regular WvW rallies like the WvW guilds near launch did.

Chaba.5410:

Dusty Moon.4382:

WvW is so broken. There are no more fights on the BL’s and EBG. People just sit in keeps and kitten on siege.

A patch won’t fix a leadership problem. People sitting insides keeps is typically a result of two things 1) players unwilling to tag up and lead and 2) players unwilling to follow tags. The number of players willing to tag up is becoming less and less unfortunately and the number of WvW guilds are shrinking as WvW gets more casual. IMHO it will get worse, not better. PvX guilds do not have large or regular WvW rallies like the WvW guilds near launch did.

Not on the Tier I am playing on. Even the TAGs sit in keeps. In fact, many of them build so much siege even in a T1 keep it is ridiculous (like 4 generators, 6 Sup Arcs and several catas). That is ridiculous.

A patch will not change the problem. The problem is that wvw is something that does not work by itself as mechanic . It is only a meaningless mass of player in which the “number” quite always makes the difference. Are you strong in following a blob and hit 111111111 ? the only way to make wvw working ( imho) would be to force a better balance of number. I don’t have fun when i go 80 vs 20 neither when i go 20 vs 80. It is something not competitive . If i play spvp i win or i lose, i have a resault for what “I” do … in wvw i can do nothing and my server wins by itself… i can play and do well and my server can lose the week . I think they should find a “shorter time” version … like edge ( the 3 hours cap time had a sense ) but avoiding the blob train . For me they should constraint the match in few hours, only a big map and find a way to force people to fight in small fights … rather then stupid 111111111 blobs

PierPiero.9142:

A patch will not change the problem. The problem is that wvw is something that does not work by itself as mechanic . It is only a meaningless mass of player in which the “number” quite always makes the difference. Are you strong in following a blob and hit 111111111 ? the only way to make wvw working ( imho) would be to force a better balance of number. I don’t have fun when i go 80 vs 20 neither when i go 20 vs 80. It is something not competitive . If i play spvp i win or i lose, i have a resault for what “I” do … in wvw i can do nothing and my server wins by itself… i can play and do well and my server can lose the week . I think they should find a “shorter time” version … like edge ( the 3 hours cap time had a sense ) but avoiding the blob train . For me they should constraint the match in few hours, only a big map and find a way to force people to fight in small fights … rather then stupid 111111111 blobs

I disagree. The guild I am in oft times is ‘outmanned’ and often it is 2 up to 4 to 1. We still beat the blob. The trick is to be a very organized guild (and we are). For WvW, voice comms is so important.

One person cannot make a server. If the server doesn’t play together well, then you lose. It is that simple.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Chaba.5410:

Dusty Moon.4382:

WvW is so broken. There are no more fights on the BL’s and EBG. People just sit in keeps and kitten on siege.

A patch won’t fix a leadership problem. People sitting insides keeps is typically a result of two things 1) players unwilling to tag up and lead and 2) players unwilling to follow tags. The number of players willing to tag up is becoming less and less unfortunately and the number of WvW guilds are shrinking as WvW gets more casual. IMHO it will get worse, not better. PvX guilds do not have large or regular WvW rallies like the WvW guilds near launch did.

Not on the Tier I am playing on. Even the TAGs sit in keeps. In fact, many of them build so much siege even in a T1 keep it is ridiculous (like 4 generators, 6 Sup Arcs and several catas). That is ridiculous.

You know we play on the same server, right? The servers we face often have a lack of tags at certain times. It may just be one guy and he doesn’t have a following. Same thing happens on our server when we either don’t have anyone tagged up or the tag doesn’t have players really following him.

Dusty Moon.4382:

The trick is to be a very organized guild (and we are). For WvW, voice comms is so important.

This is my point. The number of very organized guilds are dwindling. Players are not so interested anymore in the commitment to join very organized guilds.

Dusty Moon.4382:

PierPiero.9142:

A patch will not change the problem. The problem is that wvw is something that does not work by itself as mechanic . It is only a meaningless mass of player in which the “number” quite always makes the difference. Are you strong in following a blob and hit 111111111 ? the only way to make wvw working ( imho) would be to force a better balance of number. I don’t have fun when i go 80 vs 20 neither when i go 20 vs 80. It is something not competitive . If i play spvp i win or i lose, i have a resault for what “I” do … in wvw i can do nothing and my server wins by itself… i can play and do well and my server can lose the week . I think they should find a “shorter time” version … like edge ( the 3 hours cap time had a sense ) but avoiding the blob train . For me they should constraint the match in few hours, only a big map and find a way to force people to fight in small fights … rather then stupid 111111111 blobs

I disagree. The guild I am in oft times is ‘outmanned’ and often it is 2 up to 4 to 1. We still beat the blob. The trick is to be a very organized guild (and we are). For WvW, voice comms is so important.

One person cannot make a server. If the server doesn’t play together well, then you lose. It is that simple.

many people have not many hours to spend on wvw . So many people don’t feel his victory , his reward. When i play 1 match in spvp …in 15 minutes … i win I lose… me … when i play 15 minutes in wvw … it is all the same …. “the server” is something abstract… it is not my team….. it is something unnamed, i can not know who did what …. people need to be involved and wvw in this mechanic does not involve people. What is the real percent of players playing often wvw ? i know many pve players who do also some spvp matches …. for wvw it sesms to me that it has lost the biggest part of players . I am from SFR (EU) …. there is queue on EB becouse there is the usual blob in EB 111111 but BL are completely empty. Should i wait 80..100 on queue or less … to go in a blob and do 11111 ? no thanks …

I am sure whatever they going to patch, it will make things even worse. So don’t hold your hopes to high.

Well done, OP, I disagree with ALL of your suggestions

How about getting rid of politics. Especially for US T-1.

Arrow carts needs to be nerfed or removed permanently. You don’t need 10 arrow carts when you outnumbered your opponents 5 or 10 to 1. There are servers, I meant server that puts up 10 arrow carts and have a blob of 50+ fighting 20. This fighting style helps kill WvW faster than the horrible maps Anet implemented.

True about ac’s and siege in general. In DAOC people used siege to open up keep walls & doors. But the core of the RvR gameplay was always player vs player combat. Siege was just a tool to enable player vs player combat.

WvW right now is too much about siege, too much about fighting siege or siege capped keeps. Siege shouldn’t be the focal point of WvW combat. Siege should never do this much damage and disruption to players. I’m all for siege on siege, but right now siege are used against players more than anything else. A look at a siege capped keep these days will turn people’s stomach upside down, and make them want to logout rather than attempt to open it.

We do need changes and updates to WvW now rather than later. Never thought the 2 new games released would cause population issues, but I can confirm bns & especially bdo both have taken quite a big chunk out of WvW player population. We’ve lost majority of some guilds on a T1 server lately due to it. And the funny thing is that it isn’t the new games are so much better, it’s just that Anet’s vision of WvW is so bad, and the lack of attention to fix & update WvW have ruined it for most of the core players.

There are things that really annoy players, and most of them are things implemented with HoT expansion.

1. Oasis event on the BL’s still cause major lag, nobody likes to do it, everybody dread it when the timer countdown begins for it. This event needs to be disabled because it’s not getting fixed. 4-5 months is way too long to force your players to wait for a fix to this problem. Imagine this kind of lag happening during Tarir meta event, or DS meta, would it have lasted this long without a fix?

2. The cripple fields annoy players, the rock walls make people rage. Nobody likes them, not even for defending team where these rock walls are supposed to help. They make you get stuck, they ruin your pushes & retreat, they are not needed when players just want player vs player combat. I didn’t think Anet could think up of worse things to implement in WvW than ac’s…but the rock walls have got to be one of the worst ideas ever, next to chilling fog.

3. New BL’s are too big, takes too long to find action, and it’s near impossible to save towers. Old BL’s you could respond to scouting calls, new BL’s, well nobody gives a crap because you can’t do anything about it.

4. Keep designs are terrible for sieging. People crowd to EBG because smc is the right design for keeps, it’s large, you can siege from all around the keep, and the courtyards inside are large enough for you to maneuver and get some good fights out of it once you crack the walls/doors open. The new keep designs force you into tiny chokes and areas where you are constantly rained on by ac’s and siege. I get the original idea was to design keeps so smaller groups could fend off larger zergs. But did devs ever run the scenario where a map queue sits inside a fully fortified and siege capped keep, to see just how impossible it is for the attacking teams?

5. Emergency waypoints are fine, because you can time it and know when it’s up and when it’s down. But chill fog, air strike, iron hide, etc.. all should go. Again, annoying gimmicks that have nothing to do with player vs player combat. Iron Hide was a decent concept to give smaller groups a chance to defend a keep vs a larger zerg. But again Anet failed to run the scenario where a map blob is defending a keep how impossible it is to take the lord down with the iron hide buff on it. These PvE gimmicks are annoying players too much, people just aren’t having fun anymore.

6. ppt is an outdated concept. The need to ppt creates issues for many servers in all tiers. It also deter fights, forcing people to knock on doors and spend excessive boring time doing PvE. This also leads to where a server gets too far ahead by Monday, and then there’s a serious lack of action as other servers give up playing for the week. My suggestion is to cap the amount of ppt you can gain per hour, so no server can do nothing but ppt. There’s too much emphasis on ppt right now when majority of players really don’t care for it. Make it so if you want to gain the scores like you are now, you have to kill players for it once you’ve hit your hourly cap.

Something has to be done soon. I would say it’s already too late, but I know there are people waiting to come back to play the game once these annoying things are gone, lag is fixed, and WvW becomes fun again. Server activity pop keep going down, NA now have no Full servers, and one of the Very High just went down to High. I’m sure Anet sees these activity changes with their internal monitoring and stats collection. But the question is, will they do the right things? Do they are?

gavyne.6847:

the rock walls make people rage. Nobody likes them, not even for defending team where these rock walls are supposed to help. They make you get stuck, they ruin your pushes & retreat, they are not needed when players just want player vs player combat.

I blame the asura. They are intelligently cruel.

When they changed stability Anet sent a clear message that they prefer and will reward blobby, brainless gameplay, (example, no one plays the BL maps now, all blobfest in EB) that was the final nail in the coffin for WvW, I dont know why you are even worried about it, the patch will not restore anything to WvW, damage done.

I also disagree with every one of your suggestions. There is only one problem with WvW & that’s population imbalance. All the other problems are superficial.

I’ve come to the place where I feel like I’m “rubber necking” the scene of a crime. WvW has been chalked on the sidewalk… I don’t want to slow down and gawk, but I can’t help myself.

Edit: grammar

I think another player said it best in another topic “can’t bring back the wvw population”. It’s far too late and guilds have shrank to mere roaming groups or casual mode. Raids barely exist these days. And if a small guild is raiding they face numbers so great that they can’t counter the aoe storm and lack of stability. So they call in the blob, which any other server or group would turn to.

Players can transfer all they want, they can come to T1 looking for some dream of old school wvw but it’ll be the same issues. T1 is busy most of the time but each week you can see a slight change in population, leaving. The game is bleeding out. I’m noticing that youtube guys and gals that once played gw2 are now posting blade and soul vids or xyz MMO. Players are moving on, anet is stuck in neutral with a staff that is probably understaffed or has an unqualified leader at the helm.

This game mode has no future.

gavyne.6847:

True about ac’s and siege in general. In DAOC people used siege to open up keep walls & doors. But the core of the RvR gameplay was always player vs player combat. Siege was just a tool to enable player vs player combat.

WvW right now is too much about siege, too much about fighting siege or siege capped keeps. Siege shouldn’t be the focal point of WvW combat. Siege should never do this much damage and disruption to players. I’m all for siege on siege, but right now siege are used against players more than anything else. A look at a siege capped keep these days will turn people’s stomach upside down, and make them want to logout rather than attempt to open it.

We do need changes and updates to WvW now rather than later. Never thought the 2 new games released would cause population issues, but I can confirm bns & especially bdo both have taken quite a big chunk out of WvW player population. We’ve lost majority of some guilds on a T1 server lately due to it. And the funny thing is that it isn’t the new games are so much better, it’s just that Anet’s vision of WvW is so bad, and the lack of attention to fix & update WvW have ruined it for most of the core players.

There are things that really annoy players, and most of them are things implemented with HoT expansion.

1. Oasis event on the BL’s still cause major lag, nobody likes to do it, everybody dread it when the timer countdown begins for it. This event needs to be disabled because it’s not getting fixed. 4-5 months is way too long to force your players to wait for a fix to this problem. Imagine this kind of lag happening during Tarir meta event, or DS meta, would it have lasted this long without a fix?

2. The cripple fields annoy players, the rock walls make people rage. Nobody likes them, not even for defending team where these rock walls are supposed to help. They make you get stuck, they ruin your pushes & retreat, they are not needed when players just want player vs player combat. I didn’t think Anet could think up of worse things to implement in WvW than ac’s…but the rock walls have got to be one of the worst ideas ever, next to chilling fog.

3. New BL’s are too big, takes too long to find action, and it’s near impossible to save towers. Old BL’s you could respond to scouting calls, new BL’s, well nobody gives a crap because you can’t do anything about it.

4. Keep designs are terrible for sieging. People crowd to EBG because smc is the right design for keeps, it’s large, you can siege from all around the keep, and the courtyards inside are large enough for you to maneuver and get some good fights out of it once you crack the walls/doors open. The new keep designs force you into tiny chokes and areas where you are constantly rained on by ac’s and siege. I get the original idea was to design keeps so smaller groups could fend off larger zergs. But did devs ever run the scenario where a map queue sits inside a fully fortified and siege capped keep, to see just how impossible it is for the attacking teams?

5. Emergency waypoints are fine, because you can time it and know when it’s up and when it’s down. But chill fog, air strike, iron hide, etc.. all should go. Again, annoying gimmicks that have nothing to do with player vs player combat. Iron Hide was a decent concept to give smaller groups a chance to defend a keep vs a larger zerg. But again Anet failed to run the scenario where a map blob is defending a keep how impossible it is to take the lord down with the iron hide buff on it. These PvE gimmicks are annoying players too much, people just aren’t having fun anymore.

6. ppt is an outdated concept. The need to ppt creates issues for many servers in all tiers. It also deter fights, forcing people to knock on doors and spend excessive boring time doing PvE. This also leads to where a server gets too far ahead by Monday, and then there’s a serious lack of action as other servers give up playing for the week. My suggestion is to cap the amount of ppt you can gain per hour, so no server can do nothing but ppt. There’s too much emphasis on ppt right now when majority of players really don’t care for it. Make it so if you want to gain the scores like you are now, you have to kill players for it once you’ve hit your hourly cap.

Something has to be done soon. I would say it’s already too late, but I know there are people waiting to come back to play the game once these annoying things are gone, lag is fixed, and WvW becomes fun again. Server activity pop keep going down, NA now have no Full servers, and one of the Very High just went down to High. I’m sure Anet sees these activity changes with their internal monitoring and stats collection. But the question is, will they do the right things? Do they are?

+1, nailed it on the siege part. Ac’s need to be removed from the game. WvW fights are supposed to be about players fighting other players not siege vs siege.

Hmmm, up at the top is a “Sticky” that tells you the basics of WvW. Your “vision” is entirely different than Anets intention.

You basically want mass PvP on a meh type map. Ain’t gonna happen!!!

Loosmaster.8263:

Hmmm, up at the top is a “Sticky” that tells you the basics of WvW. Your “vision” is entirely different than Anets intention.

You basically want mass PvP on a meh type map. Ain’t gonna happen!!!

Gotta love 3 year old outdated “guides”

What’s that wvw you talk about? Similar to the eotm grind?

gavyne.6847:

True about ac’s and siege in general. In DAOC people used siege to open up keep walls & doors. But the core of the RvR gameplay was always player vs player combat. Siege was just a tool to enable player vs player combat.
[…]
6. ppt is an outdated concept. The need to ppt creates issues for many servers in all tiers. It also deter fights, forcing people to knock on doors and spend excessive boring time doing PvE. This also leads to where a server gets too far ahead by Monday, and then there’s a serious lack of action as other servers give up playing for the week. My suggestion is to cap the amount of ppt you can gain per hour, so no server can do nothing but ppt. There’s too much emphasis on ppt right now when majority of players really don’t care for it. Make it so if you want to gain the scores like you are now, you have to kill players for it once you’ve hit your hourly cap.

On these 2 points 1 of the pivot points where the game took a dive was when the power of ACs was increased yet anet don’t get it and I don’t even think a lot of players realise how bad that change was. I don’t play ESO for other reasons but siege in that game was done correctly and done as you say, siege works against objectives but is clumsy against players. Even now its not just the power of ACs its the fact that they are able to reach places they shouldn’t be able to looking at LOS, ACs set way back from a wall able to reach a cata directly beneath a wall just for example.

And most of the gimmicks added to the game with HOT as you say directly take away from the player vs player aspect because they are overpowered mechanics which dramatically influence fights mainly to help defenders but certainly in the case of the banner also help attackers because they can be taken anywhere.

As for PPT it was a mistake from the start to base scoring entirely on it. It doesn’t motivate players to participate in the most dynamic aspects of the game. All it does is appeal to PvE heroes who want to play at being in a RvR game but don’t actually want to fight.

The other big issue IMO is of course population, which has been exacerbated by anets misconceived change to the way population was calculated which set limits far too low because anet still clung to the belief that the remaining WvW pop was enough for all the servers they had when in reality it was far too small even then, and has decreased dramatically with the poorly implemented HOT changes.

Loosmaster.8263:

Hmmm, up at the top is a “Sticky” that tells you the basics of WvW. Your “vision” is entirely different than Anets intention.

You basically want mass PvP on a meh type map. Ain’t gonna happen!!!

I may hate the map, but I can live with it…for now…I come to wvw for large scale fights. I dont do small skirmishes otherwise Id go to pvp. WvW is a unique gamemode where you fight open field, over objectives, build up your bases etc. But the central focus of it should be on encouraging fights between players it is after all large scale PvP, wvw is not made so people can go there to fight npc’s its made for people to fight each other and over stuff in large groups. I am not someone who favors something like a big flat map where players just meet in the middle and have something like a deathmatch. Thats not wvw, its supposed to actually have a purpose. And for some reason anet simply neglects it, which is very sad because they something really great with a dedicated community, but this community can only take so much neglect.

X T D.6458:

Loosmaster.8263:

Hmmm, up at the top is a “Sticky” that tells you the basics of WvW. Your “vision” is entirely different than Anets intention.

You basically want mass PvP on a meh type map. Ain’t gonna happen!!!

Gotta love 3 year old outdated “guides”

True, unfortunately the intent remains. I’m not advocating it to remain as is but with the release of HoT and them going deeper into it just tells me not to expect any miraculous change from that unless they completely come out with a pure mass PvP game mode.

Loosmaster.8263:

X T D.6458:

Loosmaster.8263:

Hmmm, up at the top is a “Sticky” that tells you the basics of WvW. Your “vision” is entirely different than Anets intention.

You basically want mass PvP on a meh type map. Ain’t gonna happen!!!

Gotta love 3 year old outdated “guides”

True, unfortunately the intent remains. I’m not advocating it to remain as is but with the release of HoT and them going deeper into it just tells me not to expect any miraculous change from that unless they completely come out with a pure mass PvP game mode.

Oh absolutely I dont have any high expectations of the overhaul actually revitalizing wvw, nor do I think anet has a actual understanding of wvw, I dont think they really care. Maybe if they hired more devs to help the skeleton crew.

My biggest wish is for them to communicate with us on its development from the ground up. Nurture it along with the players involved. PUSH the reset button in the meantime.

Loosmaster.8263:

My biggest wish is for them to communicate with us on its development from the ground up. Nurture it along with the players involved. PUSH the reset button in the meantime.

More communication…well, ANY communication and involvement would be nice.

RodOfDeath.5247:

I think another player said it best in another topic “can’t bring back the wvw population”.

…

This game mode has no future.

I think the best thing at this point that would bring back population would be to scrap WvW entirely, not try to retrofit it, and introduce a new RvR game mode here that bears little resemblance to WvW. The replacement RvR has to be very fun and like a new game. Wild dreams…

You want to bring back the population? Give WvW players end game incentives, I.E. DAOC realm abilites

Feels like Anet losing players everyday…its up to them how long they gonna wait.

Chaba.5410:

RodOfDeath.5247:

I think another player said it best in another topic “can’t bring back the wvw population”.

…

This game mode has no future.

I think the best thing at this point that would bring back population would be to scrap WvW entirely, not try to retrofit it, and introduce a new RvR game mode here that bears little resemblance to WvW. The replacement RvR has to be very fun and like a new game. Wild dreams…

Yeah, you’re probably right Chaba. Even though I’d miss the days of server pride and fighting different style servers it’s just over I guess. There’s just no rivals anymore. I’m not sure what direction you go because some mythological patch or overhaul isn’t going to bring back masses. Shame….it is indeed a dream.

erKo.9586:

Feels like Anet losing players everyday…its up to them how long they gonna wait.

Sometime in the near Soon™

There are only 5 players playing in WvW. Looks like WvW is a failed projects guys, time to scrap it. Too bad, we were just about to release out non-existent overhaul which we were working on for so many years!

littlemunster.1059:

Arrow carts needs to be nerfed or removed permanently. You don’t need 10 arrow carts when you outnumbered your opponents 5 or 10 to 1. There are servers, I meant server that puts up 10 arrow carts and have a blob of 50+ fighting 20. This fighting style helps kill WvW faster than the horrible maps Anet implemented.

WvW is SUPPOSED to be about siege battles >.< (QQ moar)

if you want “fights” without siege then go PVP :p

X T D.6458:

gavyne.6847:

True about ac’s and siege in general. In DAOC people used siege to open up keep walls & doors. But the core of the RvR gameplay was always player vs player combat. Siege was just a tool to enable player vs player combat.

WvW right now is too much about siege, too much about fighting siege or siege capped keeps. Siege shouldn’t be the focal point of WvW combat. Siege should never do this much damage and disruption to players. I’m all for siege on siege, but right now siege are used against players more than anything else. A look at a siege capped keep these days will turn people’s stomach upside down, and make them want to logout rather than attempt to open it.

We do need changes and updates to WvW now rather than later. Never thought the 2 new games released would cause population issues, but I can confirm bns & especially bdo both have taken quite a big chunk out of WvW player population. We’ve lost majority of some guilds on a T1 server lately due to it. And the funny thing is that it isn’t the new games are so much better, it’s just that Anet’s vision of WvW is so bad, and the lack of attention to fix & update WvW have ruined it for most of the core players.

There are things that really annoy players, and most of them are things implemented with HoT expansion.

1. Oasis event on the BL’s still cause major lag, nobody likes to do it, everybody dread it when the timer countdown begins for it. This event needs to be disabled because it’s not getting fixed. 4-5 months is way too long to force your players to wait for a fix to this problem. Imagine this kind of lag happening during Tarir meta event, or DS meta, would it have lasted this long without a fix?

2. The cripple fields annoy players, the rock walls make people rage. Nobody likes them, not even for defending team where these rock walls are supposed to help. They make you get stuck, they ruin your pushes & retreat, they are not needed when players just want player vs player combat. I didn’t think Anet could think up of worse things to implement in WvW than ac’s…but the rock walls have got to be one of the worst ideas ever, next to chilling fog.

3. New BL’s are too big, takes too long to find action, and it’s near impossible to save towers. Old BL’s you could respond to scouting calls, new BL’s, well nobody gives a crap because you can’t do anything about it.

4. Keep designs are terrible for sieging. People crowd to EBG because smc is the right design for keeps, it’s large, you can siege from all around the keep, and the courtyards inside are large enough for you to maneuver and get some good fights out of it once you crack the walls/doors open. The new keep designs force you into tiny chokes and areas where you are constantly rained on by ac’s and siege. I get the original idea was to design keeps so smaller groups could fend off larger zergs. But did devs ever run the scenario where a map queue sits inside a fully fortified and siege capped keep, to see just how impossible it is for the attacking teams?

5. Emergency waypoints are fine, because you can time it and know when it’s up and when it’s down. But chill fog, air strike, iron hide, etc.. all should go. Again, annoying gimmicks that have nothing to do with player vs player combat. Iron Hide was a decent concept to give smaller groups a chance to defend a keep vs a larger zerg. But again Anet failed to run the scenario where a map blob is defending a keep how impossible it is to take the lord down with the iron hide buff on it. These PvE gimmicks are annoying players too much, people just aren’t having fun anymore.

6. ppt is an outdated concept. The need to ppt creates issues for many servers in all tiers. It also deter fights, forcing people to knock on doors and spend excessive boring time doing PvE. This also leads to where a server gets too far ahead by Monday, and then there’s a serious lack of action as other servers give up playing for the week. My suggestion is to cap the amount of ppt you can gain per hour, so no server can do nothing but ppt. There’s too much emphasis on ppt right now when majority of players really don’t care for it. Make it so if you want to gain the scores like you are now, you have to kill players for it once you’ve hit your hourly cap.

Something has to be done soon. I would say it’s already too late, but I know there are people waiting to come back to play the game once these annoying things are gone, lag is fixed, and WvW becomes fun again. Server activity pop keep going down, NA now have no Full servers, and one of the Very High just went down to High. I’m sure Anet sees these activity changes with their internal monitoring and stats collection. But the question is, will they do the right things? Do they are?

+1, nailed it on the siege part. Ac’s need to be removed from the game. WvW fights are supposed to be about players fighting other players not siege vs siege.

Actually it is supposed to be siege battles.

If you want to “fight” without siege there’s a game mode for that too, what’s it called again? Oh yea, PVP :p

sparc.3649:

X T D.6458:

gavyne.6847:

True about ac’s and siege in general. In DAOC people used siege to open up keep walls & doors. But the core of the RvR gameplay was always player vs player combat. Siege was just a tool to enable player vs player combat.

WvW right now is too much about siege, too much about fighting siege or siege capped keeps. Siege shouldn’t be the focal point of WvW combat. Siege should never do this much damage and disruption to players. I’m all for siege on siege, but right now siege are used against players more than anything else. A look at a siege capped keep these days will turn people’s stomach upside down, and make them want to logout rather than attempt to open it.

We do need changes and updates to WvW now rather than later. Never thought the 2 new games released would cause population issues, but I can confirm bns & especially bdo both have taken quite a big chunk out of WvW player population. We’ve lost majority of some guilds on a T1 server lately due to it. And the funny thing is that it isn’t the new games are so much better, it’s just that Anet’s vision of WvW is so bad, and the lack of attention to fix & update WvW have ruined it for most of the core players.

There are things that really annoy players, and most of them are things implemented with HoT expansion.

1. Oasis event on the BL’s still cause major lag, nobody likes to do it, everybody dread it when the timer countdown begins for it. This event needs to be disabled because it’s not getting fixed. 4-5 months is way too long to force your players to wait for a fix to this problem. Imagine this kind of lag happening during Tarir meta event, or DS meta, would it have lasted this long without a fix?

2. The cripple fields annoy players, the rock walls make people rage. Nobody likes them, not even for defending team where these rock walls are supposed to help. They make you get stuck, they ruin your pushes & retreat, they are not needed when players just want player vs player combat. I didn’t think Anet could think up of worse things to implement in WvW than ac’s…but the rock walls have got to be one of the worst ideas ever, next to chilling fog.

3. New BL’s are too big, takes too long to find action, and it’s near impossible to save towers. Old BL’s you could respond to scouting calls, new BL’s, well nobody gives a crap because you can’t do anything about it.

4. Keep designs are terrible for sieging. People crowd to EBG because smc is the right design for keeps, it’s large, you can siege from all around the keep, and the courtyards inside are large enough for you to maneuver and get some good fights out of it once you crack the walls/doors open. The new keep designs force you into tiny chokes and areas where you are constantly rained on by ac’s and siege. I get the original idea was to design keeps so smaller groups could fend off larger zergs. But did devs ever run the scenario where a map queue sits inside a fully fortified and siege capped keep, to see just how impossible it is for the attacking teams?

5. Emergency waypoints are fine, because you can time it and know when it’s up and when it’s down. But chill fog, air strike, iron hide, etc.. all should go. Again, annoying gimmicks that have nothing to do with player vs player combat. Iron Hide was a decent concept to give smaller groups a chance to defend a keep vs a larger zerg. But again Anet failed to run the scenario where a map blob is defending a keep how impossible it is to take the lord down with the iron hide buff on it. These PvE gimmicks are annoying players too much, people just aren’t having fun anymore.

6. ppt is an outdated concept. The need to ppt creates issues for many servers in all tiers. It also deter fights, forcing people to knock on doors and spend excessive boring time doing PvE. This also leads to where a server gets too far ahead by Monday, and then there’s a serious lack of action as other servers give up playing for the week. My suggestion is to cap the amount of ppt you can gain per hour, so no server can do nothing but ppt. There’s too much emphasis on ppt right now when majority of players really don’t care for it. Make it so if you want to gain the scores like you are now, you have to kill players for it once you’ve hit your hourly cap.

Something has to be done soon. I would say it’s already too late, but I know there are people waiting to come back to play the game once these annoying things are gone, lag is fixed, and WvW becomes fun again. Server activity pop keep going down, NA now have no Full servers, and one of the Very High just went down to High. I’m sure Anet sees these activity changes with their internal monitoring and stats collection. But the question is, will they do the right things? Do they are?

+1, nailed it on the siege part. Ac’s need to be removed from the game. WvW fights are supposed to be about players fighting other players not siege vs siege.

Actually it is supposed to be siege battles.

If you want to “fight” without siege there’s a game mode for that too, what’s it called again? Oh yea, PVP :p

So where do you fight 40 vs 40 with battlefield formations, flank squads, focused guild raid builds and party compositions for different strategies at then? Oh yea.. that is what a large scale PvP game mode such as RvR is supposed to be for.

lil devils x.6071:

sparc.3649:

X T D.6458:

gavyne.6847:

True about ac’s and siege in general. In DAOC people used siege to open up keep walls & doors. But the core of the RvR gameplay was always player vs player combat. Siege was just a tool to enable player vs player combat.

WvW right now is too much about siege, too much about fighting siege or siege capped keeps. Siege shouldn’t be the focal point of WvW combat. Siege should never do this much damage and disruption to players. I’m all for siege on siege, but right now siege are used against players more than anything else. A look at a siege capped keep these days will turn people’s stomach upside down, and make them want to logout rather than attempt to open it.

We do need changes and updates to WvW now rather than later. Never thought the 2 new games released would cause population issues, but I can confirm bns & especially bdo both have taken quite a big chunk out of WvW player population. We’ve lost majority of some guilds on a T1 server lately due to it. And the funny thing is that it isn’t the new games are so much better, it’s just that Anet’s vision of WvW is so bad, and the lack of attention to fix & update WvW have ruined it for most of the core players.

There are things that really annoy players, and most of them are things implemented with HoT expansion.

1. Oasis event on the BL’s still cause major lag, nobody likes to do it, everybody dread it when the timer countdown begins for it. This event needs to be disabled because it’s not getting fixed. 4-5 months is way too long to force your players to wait for a fix to this problem. Imagine this kind of lag happening during Tarir meta event, or DS meta, would it have lasted this long without a fix?

2. The cripple fields annoy players, the rock walls make people rage. Nobody likes them, not even for defending team where these rock walls are supposed to help. They make you get stuck, they ruin your pushes & retreat, they are not needed when players just want player vs player combat. I didn’t think Anet could think up of worse things to implement in WvW than ac’s…but the rock walls have got to be one of the worst ideas ever, next to chilling fog.

3. New BL’s are too big, takes too long to find action, and it’s near impossible to save towers. Old BL’s you could respond to scouting calls, new BL’s, well nobody gives a crap because you can’t do anything about it.

4. Keep designs are terrible for sieging. People crowd to EBG because smc is the right design for keeps, it’s large, you can siege from all around the keep, and the courtyards inside are large enough for you to maneuver and get some good fights out of it once you crack the walls/doors open. The new keep designs force you into tiny chokes and areas where you are constantly rained on by ac’s and siege. I get the original idea was to design keeps so smaller groups could fend off larger zergs. But did devs ever run the scenario where a map queue sits inside a fully fortified and siege capped keep, to see just how impossible it is for the attacking teams?

5. Emergency waypoints are fine, because you can time it and know when it’s up and when it’s down. But chill fog, air strike, iron hide, etc.. all should go. Again, annoying gimmicks that have nothing to do with player vs player combat. Iron Hide was a decent concept to give smaller groups a chance to defend a keep vs a larger zerg. But again Anet failed to run the scenario where a map blob is defending a keep how impossible it is to take the lord down with the iron hide buff on it. These PvE gimmicks are annoying players too much, people just aren’t having fun anymore.

6. ppt is an outdated concept. The need to ppt creates issues for many servers in all tiers. It also deter fights, forcing people to knock on doors and spend excessive boring time doing PvE. This also leads to where a server gets too far ahead by Monday, and then there’s a serious lack of action as other servers give up playing for the week. My suggestion is to cap the amount of ppt you can gain per hour, so no server can do nothing but ppt. There’s too much emphasis on ppt right now when majority of players really don’t care for it. Make it so if you want to gain the scores like you are now, you have to kill players for it once you’ve hit your hourly cap.

Something has to be done soon. I would say it’s already too late, but I know there are people waiting to come back to play the game once these annoying things are gone, lag is fixed, and WvW becomes fun again. Server activity pop keep going down, NA now have no Full servers, and one of the Very High just went down to High. I’m sure Anet sees these activity changes with their internal monitoring and stats collection. But the question is, will they do the right things? Do they are?

+1, nailed it on the siege part. Ac’s need to be removed from the game. WvW fights are supposed to be about players fighting other players not siege vs siege.

Actually it is supposed to be siege battles.

If you want to “fight” without siege there’s a game mode for that too, what’s it called again? Oh yea, PVP :p

So where do you fight 40 vs 40 with battlefield formations, flank squads, focused guild raid builds and party compositions for different strategies at then? Oh yea.. that is what a large scale PvP game mode such as RvR is supposed to be for.

In another game? It’s so sad that your expectations of the “game mode” don’t match that of the company’s, otherwise siege wouldn’t exist, duh! I happen to love the WvW “game mode” and all it brings with it, including the “king of the hill” nature (towers keeps and the castle) and (you guessed it) SIEGE. Furthermore, if your expectations and the company’s matched then there wouldn’t be a need for camps, towers, keeps, and the castle either…

Again, there’s a game mode for “fights” without siege (or camps, towers, keeps, castle) – it’s called PvP. Oh, but QQ, I want 40v40 fights without siege, okay then that’s obviously a different game you’re seeking . WvW always has and always will have camps, towers, keeps, the castle, and SIEGE – otherwise it wouldn’t be WvW as ANET has envisioned it…

What you’re asking for could be accomplished by plopping all three servers on an empty map, each of which with a spawn at opposing ends, just so players could fight. No need for siege, no need for ‘objectives’. Hell lets just make it a huge flat terrain-less map while we’re at it, we’re only here for ‘fights’ >.< It’d sure save them a lot of $$$ on design, no need for “grass” even, just plop us on a map like EB (triangle spawn points) with a flat green color “floor” or “ground” and let us fight until our eyes pop out.

No thanks, I like the added bonus of having objectives and siege. It’s so much better when it’s not JUST about players fighting. That extra element of ‘objectives’ and siege make it that much more fun, interesting and challenging. If someone sets up siege during a fight, why don’t you learn how to counter siege it, or charge into it to take it out (to counter it), or relocate (or attempt to relocate) the “fight”…

Removing ANY of the siege is an asinine idea; it’s always been there – and it will always BE there… If anything, more siege additions (ex: shield generator) are always welcomed too!

lil devils x.6071:

So where do you fight 40 vs 40 with battlefield formations, flank squads, focused guild raid builds and party compositions for different strategies at then? Oh yea.. that is what a large scale PvP game mode such as RvR is supposed to be for.

Confirmed. JQ doesn’t run less than 40

@spar yea man isn’t it sad.. so many trying to redesign the game mode around only their type of play style..

sparc.3649:

littlemunster.1059:

Arrow carts needs to be nerfed or removed permanently. You don’t need 10 arrow carts when you outnumbered your opponents 5 or 10 to 1. There are servers, I meant server that puts up 10 arrow carts and have a blob of 50+ fighting 20. This fighting style helps kill WvW faster than the horrible maps Anet implemented.

WvW is SUPPOSED to be about siege battles >.< (QQ moar)

Siege battles are meant to be siege against objectives and other siege, followed up by large player battles once the objective is breached, not siege being overpowered against players making battles boring press 1 fests. WvW began to devolve and lose players when the power of ACs was dramatically increased.

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

So where do you fight 40 vs 40 with battlefield formations, flank squads, focused guild raid builds and party compositions for different strategies at then? Oh yea.. that is what a large scale PvP game mode such as RvR is supposed to be for.

Confirmed. JQ doesn’t run less than 40

@spar yea man isn’t it sad.. so many trying to redesign the game mode around only their type of play style..

What? De-powering ACs doesn’t lead to a restriction of any play styles.

sparc.3649:

lil devils x.6071:

sparc.3649:

X T D.6458:

gavyne.6847:

True about ac’s and siege in general. In DAOC people used siege to open up keep walls & doors. But the core of the RvR gameplay was always player vs player combat. Siege was just a tool to enable player vs player combat.

WvW right now is too much about siege, too much about fighting siege or siege capped keeps. Siege shouldn’t be the focal point of WvW combat. Siege should never do this much damage and disruption to players. I’m all for siege on siege, but right now siege are used against players more than anything else. A look at a siege capped keep these days will turn people’s stomach upside down, and make them want to logout rather than attempt to open it.

We do need changes and updates to WvW now rather than later. Never thought the 2 new games released would cause population issues, but I can confirm bns & especially bdo both have taken quite a big chunk out of WvW player population. We’ve lost majority of some guilds on a T1 server lately due to it. And the funny thing is that it isn’t the new games are so much better, it’s just that Anet’s vision of WvW is so bad, and the lack of attention to fix & update WvW have ruined it for most of the core players.

There are things that really annoy players, and most of them are things implemented with HoT expansion.

1. Oasis event on the BL’s still cause major lag, nobody likes to do it, everybody dread it when the timer countdown begins for it. This event needs to be disabled because it’s not getting fixed. 4-5 months is way too long to force your players to wait for a fix to this problem. Imagine this kind of lag happening during Tarir meta event, or DS meta, would it have lasted this long without a fix?

2. The cripple fields annoy players, the rock walls make people rage. Nobody likes them, not even for defending team where these rock walls are supposed to help. They make you get stuck, they ruin your pushes & retreat, they are not needed when players just want player vs player combat. I didn’t think Anet could think up of worse things to implement in WvW than ac’s…but the rock walls have got to be one of the worst ideas ever, next to chilling fog.

3. New BL’s are too big, takes too long to find action, and it’s near impossible to save towers. Old BL’s you could respond to scouting calls, new BL’s, well nobody gives a crap because you can’t do anything about it.

4. Keep designs are terrible for sieging. People crowd to EBG because smc is the right design for keeps, it’s large, you can siege from all around the keep, and the courtyards inside are large enough for you to maneuver and get some good fights out of it once you crack the walls/doors open. The new keep designs force you into tiny chokes and areas where you are constantly rained on by ac’s and siege. I get the original idea was to design keeps so smaller groups could fend off larger zergs. But did devs ever run the scenario where a map queue sits inside a fully fortified and siege capped keep, to see just how impossible it is for the attacking teams?

5. Emergency waypoints are fine, because you can time it and know when it’s up and when it’s down. But chill fog, air strike, iron hide, etc.. all should go. Again, annoying gimmicks that have nothing to do with player vs player combat. Iron Hide was a decent concept to give smaller groups a chance to defend a keep vs a larger zerg. But again Anet failed to run the scenario where a map blob is defending a keep how impossible it is to take the lord down with the iron hide buff on it. These PvE gimmicks are annoying players too much, people just aren’t having fun anymore.

6. ppt is an outdated concept. The need to ppt creates issues for many servers in all tiers. It also deter fights, forcing people to knock on doors and spend excessive boring time doing PvE. This also leads to where a server gets too far ahead by Monday, and then there’s a serious lack of action as other servers give up playing for the week. My suggestion is to cap the amount of ppt you can gain per hour, so no server can do nothing but ppt. There’s too much emphasis on ppt right now when majority of players really don’t care for it. Make it so if you want to gain the scores like you are now, you have to kill players for it once you’ve hit your hourly cap.

Something has to be done soon. I would say it’s already too late, but I know there are people waiting to come back to play the game once these annoying things are gone, lag is fixed, and WvW becomes fun again. Server activity pop keep going down, NA now have no Full servers, and one of the Very High just went down to High. I’m sure Anet sees these activity changes with their internal monitoring and stats collection. But the question is, will they do the right things? Do they are?

+1, nailed it on the siege part. Ac’s need to be removed from the game. WvW fights are supposed to be about players fighting other players not siege vs siege.

Actually it is supposed to be siege battles.

If you want to “fight” without siege there’s a game mode for that too, what’s it called again? Oh yea, PVP :p

So where do you fight 40 vs 40 with battlefield formations, flank squads, focused guild raid builds and party compositions for different strategies at then? Oh yea.. that is what a large scale PvP game mode such as RvR is supposed to be for.

In another game? It’s so sad that your expectations of the “game mode” don’t match that of the company’s, otherwise siege wouldn’t exist, duh! I happen to love the WvW “game mode” and all it brings with it, including the “king of the hill” nature (towers keeps and the castle) and (you guessed it) SIEGE. Furthermore, if your expectations and the company’s matched then there wouldn’t be a need for camps, towers, keeps, and the castle either…

Again, there’s a game mode for “fights” without siege (or camps, towers, keeps, castle) – it’s called PvP. Oh, but QQ, I want 40v40 fights without siege, okay then that’s obviously a different game you’re seeking . WvW always has and always will have camps, towers, keeps, the castle, and SIEGE – otherwise it wouldn’t be WvW as ANET has envisioned it…

What you’re asking for could be accomplished by plopping all three servers on an empty map, each of which with a spawn at opposing ends, just so players could fight. No need for siege, no need for ‘objectives’. Hell lets just make it a huge flat terrain-less map while we’re at it, we’re only here for ‘fights’ >.< It’d sure save them a lot of $$$ on design, no need for “grass” even, just plop us on a map like EB (triangle spawn points) with a flat green color “floor” or “ground” and let us fight until our eyes pop out.

No thanks, I like the added bonus of having objectives and siege. It’s so much better when it’s not JUST about players fighting. That extra element of ‘objectives’ and siege make it that much more fun, interesting and challenging. If someone sets up siege during a fight, why don’t you learn how to counter siege it, or charge into it to take it out (to counter it), or relocate (or attempt to relocate) the “fight”…

Removing ANY of the siege is an asinine idea; it’s always been there – and it will always BE there… If anything, more siege additions (ex: shield generator) are always welcomed too!

Yes , Of course! They should cater to the one and let the 40 who spend hundreds of dollars a month on their game run out the door to other games to give them that money instead! Brilliant! The one guy with his OP AC will surely make up for the funds the 40 were spending and keep the game alive for years.. of course until that one guy gets bored of sitting on his OP ac for hours every day when no one shows up to use it on anymore. LMAO

I don’t think they should remove them,. just reduce their damage on players. Siege vs siege, Player vs player are better fights. tbh I usually don’t have problems taking out their acs , there isn’t anything a treb, bali or cat can’t handle. It is just harder on smaller guilds to be able to carry enough supply for all that.. All that does it make it more tedious for them to do.

sparc.3649:

No thanks, I like the added bonus of having objectives and siege. It’s so much better when it’s not JUST about players fighting. That extra element of ‘objectives’ and siege make it that much more fun, interesting and challenging.

Only the hardcore GvGers want to play without siege. Its not about removing siege its about making it not be overpowering against players. Like I said above RvR gameplay is about sieging objectives then fighting once the objective is breached.

morrolan.9608:

sparc.3649:

No thanks, I like the added bonus of having objectives and siege. It’s so much better when it’s not JUST about players fighting. That extra element of ‘objectives’ and siege make it that much more fun, interesting and challenging.

Only the hardcore GvGers want to play without siege. Its not about removing siege its about making it not be overpowering against players. Like I said above RvR gameplay is about sieging objectives then fighting once the objective is breached.

They complain about siege in towers because they are not really hardcore GvG’ers but k-trainers in disguise that want to take easy objectives..

That reminds me when siege disablers came out and some fight guilds claimed it ruined the game mode.. LOL fight guilds complaining that their siege got disabled..

briggah.7910:

morrolan.9608:

sparc.3649:

No thanks, I like the added bonus of having objectives and siege. It’s so much better when it’s not JUST about players fighting. That extra element of ‘objectives’ and siege make it that much more fun, interesting and challenging.

Only the hardcore GvGers want to play without siege. Its not about removing siege its about making it not be overpowering against players. Like I said above RvR gameplay is about sieging objectives then fighting once the objective is breached.

They complain about siege in towers because they are not really hardcore GvG’ers but k-trainers in disguise that want to take easy objectives..

I think you’re talking at cross purposes to what I said, hardcore gvgers fight open field only and I’m not sure any exist any more in WvW. Complaining about overwhelming siege doesn’t necessarily mean they want a k train but rather a fight over the objective.

morrolan.9608:

briggah.7910:

morrolan.9608:

sparc.3649:

No thanks, I like the added bonus of having objectives and siege. It’s so much better when it’s not JUST about players fighting. That extra element of ‘objectives’ and siege make it that much more fun, interesting and challenging.

Only the hardcore GvGers want to play without siege. Its not about removing siege its about making it not be overpowering against players. Like I said above RvR gameplay is about sieging objectives then fighting once the objective is breached.

They complain about siege in towers because they are not really hardcore GvG’ers but k-trainers in disguise that want to take easy objectives..

I think you’re talking at cross purposes to what I said, hardcore gvgers fight open field only and I’m not sure any exist any more in WvW. Complaining about overwhelming siege doesn’t necessarily mean they want a k train but rather a fight over the objective.

You can fight over the objectives by taking out the siege first. I never get the complaints about siege since as far as I can see every server uses it. Some just do it better than others. There are ways to counter it but most would rather just not deal with it..

briggah.7910:

morrolan.9608:

briggah.7910:

morrolan.9608:

sparc.3649:

No thanks, I like the added bonus of having objectives and siege. It’s so much better when it’s not JUST about players fighting. That extra element of ‘objectives’ and siege make it that much more fun, interesting and challenging.

Only the hardcore GvGers want to play without siege. Its not about removing siege its about making it not be overpowering against players. Like I said above RvR gameplay is about sieging objectives then fighting once the objective is breached.

They complain about siege in towers because they are not really hardcore GvG’ers but k-trainers in disguise that want to take easy objectives..

I think you’re talking at cross purposes to what I said, hardcore gvgers fight open field only and I’m not sure any exist any more in WvW. Complaining about overwhelming siege doesn’t necessarily mean they want a k train but rather a fight over the objective.

You can fight over the objectives by taking out the siege first. I never get the complaints about siege since as far as I can see every server uses it. Some just do it better than others. There are ways to counter it but most would rather just not deal with it..

No many servers just all agree not to go overboard with it and think the ones using it are doing so because they need a crutch due to being unable to actually fight. Much of the time guilds run around knocking on keeps not to take the keeps, but to knock on the door and see if anyone comes out to play. They want them to come out and fight instead.

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

morrolan.9608:

briggah.7910:

morrolan.9608:

sparc.3649:

No thanks, I like the added bonus of having objectives and siege. It’s so much better when it’s not JUST about players fighting. That extra element of ‘objectives’ and siege make it that much more fun, interesting and challenging.

Only the hardcore GvGers want to play without siege. Its not about removing siege its about making it not be overpowering against players. Like I said above RvR gameplay is about sieging objectives then fighting once the objective is breached.

They complain about siege in towers because they are not really hardcore GvG’ers but k-trainers in disguise that want to take easy objectives..

I think you’re talking at cross purposes to what I said, hardcore gvgers fight open field only and I’m not sure any exist any more in WvW. Complaining about overwhelming siege doesn’t necessarily mean they want a k train but rather a fight over the objective.

You can fight over the objectives by taking out the siege first. I never get the complaints about siege since as far as I can see every server uses it. Some just do it better than others. There are ways to counter it but most would rather just not deal with it..

No many servers just all agree not to go overboard with it and think the ones using it are doing so because they need a crutch due to being unable to actually fight. Much of the time guilds run around knocking on keeps not to take the keeps, but to knock on the door and see if anyone comes out to play. They want them to come out and fight instead.

That’s politics right there and I don’t follow politics just because some players agree on certain things. You come up with your own rules and expect every single player to follow them. When every single player doesn’t follow your made up rules you try to get them removed from the game mode

briggah.7910:

morrolan.9608:

briggah.7910:

morrolan.9608:

sparc.3649:

No thanks, I like the added bonus of having objectives and siege. It’s so much better when it’s not JUST about players fighting. That extra element of ‘objectives’ and siege make it that much more fun, interesting and challenging.

Only the hardcore GvGers want to play without siege. Its not about removing siege its about making it not be overpowering against players. Like I said above RvR gameplay is about sieging objectives then fighting once the objective is breached.

They complain about siege in towers because they are not really hardcore GvG’ers but k-trainers in disguise that want to take easy objectives..

I think you’re talking at cross purposes to what I said, hardcore gvgers fight open field only and I’m not sure any exist any more in WvW. Complaining about overwhelming siege doesn’t necessarily mean they want a k train but rather a fight over the objective.

You can fight over the objectives by taking out the siege first. I never get the complaints about siege since as far as I can see every server uses it. Some just do it better than others. There are ways to counter it but most would rather just not deal with it..

There are places to put siege that can’t be hit.