Guild Wars 2

What are the learning’s that player can take out of this video? I ask because I can’t help but wounder how it is even possible to do what this guy is doing?

..any bunker d/d ele can do what this person is doing.

‘Bunker’ how is that bunker as I see him downing level 80 players pretty fast!

That using any cc on that ele in those fights would´ve cut the video at 20 seconds mark?
That people who sit there and eat all the eles easily avoidable burst skills get killed?

It’s an annoying noob bunker build – completely useless. If you’re not running a staff for walls or focus for swirlies then go play another class. Waste of ele.

Basically the build tries to outlast an opponent. They always open with their knockdowns then try to hit you with Churning Earth. Super predictable.

His build strength relies on: high mobility and high heal capability. (In addition of his skill. Not many D/D ele player can do like what he did). FYI: D/D ele is the hardest class to master.

To your surprise, ele D/D has the biggest burst than other type of ele (but you must pay with you lose your range (become almost melee), and keep in mind that ele use light armor (the worst armor)).

How to counter ? Evade when you see he channels that earth skill. Some people evade far before this skill channeled, which is wrong. What you should do keep hitting him with your strongest attack, and evade when you see the earth wave almost get into outer circle (90/95%) or if suddenly the ele gone from your sight.. If you have “daze” (slam or whatever) like attack, do it in this time. This will make d/d ele stay in place for longer time. After that just use move that forbid them to move (immobilize). If all fail (he gets away), dont chase.

Actually root all of the problem is: people always chase a player (which they feel in advantage), regardless it may be a trap (easy to use these trick to lure people to your zerg).

If you’re not running a staff for walls or focus for swirlies then go play another class. Waste of ele.

Our eles would like to have a word with you ^^

Archer.1658:

..any bunker d/d ele can do what this person is doing.

I actually can’t. Other class players could learn that you never kill any bunker if you miss most of your attacks.

Cempa.5619:

‘Bunker’ how is that bunker as I see him downing level 80 players pretty fast!

Actually, the first few minutes I saw no player without green arrow. So they are all underleveled and undergeared trying to kill a bunker build level 80. They don’t even stun/snare or pull him out of any chain..

These builds being impactful in WvW relies mostly on the stupidity of the opponents to chase them, and allow themselves to get trolled essentially.

Against most, you can run halfway across the map before they would kill you.

In larger fights it gets more complicated, but you still want to ignore them till last.

looks like a good twitch player

I can learn that if I tried to press that many keys in an hour, let alone one fight, my hand would fall off!!!

What Can We Learn From This WvW Video?

1)Its bad to focus 5 players on an earth elemental u.u (he will disappear way before you can kill it, also its quite useless and slow….even a glass cannon can ignore it).

2)also to not summon an earth elemental in www unless your opponent are clueless on the class ._.

3) that guy is really skilled….his opponents…. well see 1 *

4) use stuns etc against ele…..(he can cleanse some but that requires time and it would prevent him to run away).

P.S. i play ele since release.
I cannot do what he did…he is really skilled despite i met always more competent opponents in www…

• P.P.S: noticed just now the name:
  ok if you know who he is, as ele players do you’d know why he is so skilled

I wish my Ranger/Necro/Engineer had a build that could kill newbs in 1 vs 10.

since 50% of WvW population is newb, it would make wonders!

Edit for Mike Hell : Well maybe TankCat Engineer :P PRYBAAAAR

Oh god…. even at the first minute already see morons that STAY inside the freaking large NOTICEABLE churning earth.

That’s not a video of a good Ele ( it is btw ) it’s a video of stupid enemies.

Kardiamond.6952:

I wish my Ranger/Necro/Engineer had a build that could kill newbs in 1 vs 10.

since 50% of WvW population is newb, it would make wonders!

Tankcat build looks pretty solid to me

I agree, When I posted I was thinking to myself : maybe Tankcat.

I regret posting engineer, you are right.

Thats the common mob mentality for you. When more then one person attack a single target they find themself “untouchable”, and completely lose track of anything around them and their allies.

Great video btw, that ele got a good feeling between his stances. Wish i had that.

Kardiamond.6952:

I wish my Ranger/Necro/Engineer had a build that could kill newbs in 1 vs 10.

since 50% of WvW population is newb, it would make wonders!

Edit for Mike Hell : Well maybe TankCat Engineer :P PRYBAAAAR

he could probably kill newbs as well with your ranger/necro/eng.
Its not the build…actually…

I cannot survive a 3VS1, sometimes i survive 2VS1 (survive >_>)…..

@LordByron

I want to see that.

With Necro/Ranger, he won’t have the escape mecanism. He won’t have the crazy healing. DS for necro don’t work well vs zerg. Ranger don’t have much damage mitigation ether.

I would love to see Daphenix prove me wrong, just show me what you can do with a non-FTOM class.

I hope you guys realize that Elementalists have had more nerfs than buffs, it’s only recently that people have figured out how to actually play the class and now there are so many people complaining or calling for a nerf. Being a Ranger myself I’d also like to know how to play properly with it so that people are calling for us to be nerfed but nope, thats never going to happen (feel free to prove me wrong :P).

Permanent Swiftness, Regeneration, Vigor, Fury and a few Might stacks. Regular Protection. I kept waiting and waiting for someone to Corrupt or at least steal those boons and it didn’t happen. =/

Wish boon strip sigils didn’t have uselessly long cooldown.

I still fight these eles rather than any mesmer build.

Kardiamond.6952:

@LordByron

I want to see that.

With Necro/Ranger, he won’t have the escape mecanism. He won’t have the crazy healing. DS for necro don’t work well vs zerg. Ranger don’t have much damage mitigation ether.

I would love to see Daphenix prove me wrong, just show me what you can do with a non-FTOM class.

He actually took the class considered most underpowered and developed current D/D build……so i bet he could do the same with necros and rangers.

the wrong point is taking as an example of anything one of the best ele players known on the forum and compare with …..5 players attacking an earth elemental…..

Against a mesmer would be even worst they would attack illusions….

Its clearly a good player in the midst of a confused battlefield, using the same at his advantage.

If opponent focused at him despite his skill he would never be able to survive that much but if you see opponents target whatever they see without trying any tactic.

Now think at this also:

A D/D ele arrives near walls during a fight…….
What can he do?
Ranger can shut down siege machines……..nerf ranger.

ELE D/D is playing in one of 2 zergs that faces….
How on earth is he supposed to get past long range crossing fire?

ELE D/D is just a good build for mostly dueling…..
Thing that is quite rare in www
Same class has lot of downsides and counterbuilds

So Skill matters, and i don t think this is wrong, 99% ele players cannot do the same.

P.S:for permaeverything u said there are at least 3 classes that cando the same (included the one you play) ….that because of some runes…..they can nerf them anytime for me….if you get 30-50% duration from runes there is a problem.

Also its mostly swiftness……might stack and others require you to stay alone and spam skills ….dont exaggerate as ever…

P.S: but the best things about this is that still i have to see any solid fact to support a nerf request……
I dn t see numbers, i don t see build analysis(real build not 150 traits with 4 weapons)
Nothing at all….

Ksielvin.1587:

Permanent Swiftness, Regeneration, Vigor, Fury and a few Might stacks. Regular Protection.

I kept waiting and waiting for someone to Corrupt or at least steal those boons and it didn’t happen. =/

Did you ever try it?

I do it often on my necro.

The result? They swap to water, get all their boon back like 1-2 sec after losing them, and removing every condition.

I see a lot of people saying Corrupt boon is the counter, but it’s not. It sure help, but since Elem get constant stream of condition removal and boon, it’s not that great.

buki.3108:

It’s an annoying noob bunker build – completely useless. If you’re not running a staff for walls or focus for swirlies then go play another class. Waste of ele.

Basically the build tries to outlast an opponent. They always open with their knockdowns then try to hit you with Churning Earth. Super predictable.

It’s not useless. Even if you are built D/D you carry around a focus and a staff, if you are anyway decent or semi-serious about winning in WvW.

From my experience, D/D is great for pushing the enemy out, as you can RTL straight into the enemy back line, throw a bunch of AoE CC and damage. Many of the classes that stay in the back line in battle tend to have non-tanky builds, which leads to these “bunker” D/D eles hitting them hard(especially with all those might stacks from the sigil and traits) and they start running. After you throw everything and soak up the damage with various skills like mist form, dodge and etc, you can just RTL back out to your own zerg.

After you return to you zerg and see how much the enemy group has been pushed out, you will be amazed. Staff or focus eles cannot do that as they can’t put pressure on the back line like D/D eles do. However, they are good for sieges for both attacking and defending sides.

If you find D/D eles lacking in group fights unless you are right next to a wall, you either don’t have the right items equipped or playing too cautiously. D/D eles have so many gtfo abilities you can afford to just run into a group of 20 ppl and throw your stuff and get out alive(maybe with 10% hp but still). Also, abusing culling helps. If your group starts running towards the enemy group, chances are that you are invisible to the enemy in the initial stage of the fight, so just RTL right in.

buki.3108:

If you’re not running a staff for walls or focus for swirlies then go play another class.

That’s not mutually exclusive with playing D/D for skirmishes. Just switch out of combat.

All the weapons > one weapon.

@LordByron

You know D/D Ele can still switch to staff out of combat right? Most Ele do that when they get in siege mod.

If I follow your logic, a class can 1 vs 10 a group, but it’s ok since they are not one of the 3 useful class during a siege.

This is not a duel by the way, this is a 1 vs 10.

99% player cannot do that? You should do a quick search on you tube. 1 vs X DD elem video are quit frequent.

We can all agree those 10 players were bad. I completly agree with you. But One player killing 10 bads is still a lot more then others can do.

Hell even if he gets in trouble, he has a free escape card anytime.

HP getting a bit low? Well just Ride the lightning!

It’s possible mostly because of boons generation, and partly because of a defensive focus on stats. I have a Mesmer build that can do this as well..

Stomping while being invulnerable in Mist Form seems overpowered though.

They have to make boon stealing work on shields/immunity and junk like that or at least dispel them to be useful. The yellow boons come too easy for removal to be really useful. If I could get rid of Arcane Shield now that would be useful. Does any prof have access to that kind of dispel?

You learn from this video that a great player can kill bad players.

Nothing more, nothing less.

And you fellas complain about thieves ROFLMAO

This is still going on?

1 single knockdown, launch, immobilize, stun or daze at ~20seconds mark of that video would´ve meant dead ele…did it happen?
No, because his opponents were attacking an elemental or picking daisies or lord knows what. They seemed to be mostly lowbies and zerglings anyway, barely any focus on actual battle.
Infact all the cc in that video can be counted with one hand.

People died. True, but shouldn´t be a surprise when they stand in a giant ring of death without hint of a dodge, or even without attacking the ele, and then proceed to eat flame grabs to the face like a champ…a dead champ.
Do you seriously say that people shouldn´t die when they basicly just stand on a field getting attacked?

But, but, but it´s hard to counter and he can escape and and yadayadayaa…..
Here´s a few counters:
Stun, daze, cripple, chill, immobilize, launch, knockdown and root.
Boon removal and actively putting pressure on him afterwards.
Condition damage, that particular build didn´t have all that much condition removal (cleansing flame 3 conditions on a 50 second cooldown, cleansing wave 1 condition on40s cooldown and water attunement 1 condition on 9s cooldown in theory, a lot more in practice) Any respectable condition spec can pump out more than enough to overcome that.

Equaly skilled mesmers, or thieves could propably pull similiar feats. Not every profession can pull it off, but then again if they could what would be the point of having cprofessions in the first place?
Squishier professions don´t have the sheer staying power of guardians, necros or warriors in bigger figths. Guardians walls and rings basicly stop any amount of players in a choke point, that is something no other profession can pull off.
There´s somethign other professions can´t do for every profession.

I noticed several things

1) He’s a really good player

2) A lot of the time he is not solo

3) He takes a real long time to kill the 80s

4) He survives being Moa’d…that means it is player skill/opponent lack of skill not class strength

5) A lot of the time he has no target…people just run into his pbAoE

6) One guy stops to do a skill point commune, another does a vista, and a third chops wood

7) More than once when he runs away to heal they stop and fight his pet

buki.3108:

It’s an annoying noob bunker build – completely useless. If you’re not running a staff for walls or focus for swirlies then go play another class. Waste of ele.

Basically the build tries to outlast an opponent. They always open with their knockdowns then try to hit you with Churning Earth. Super predictable.

lol, you couldn’t be more wrong. Not to mention, do you even know who that video is of? That’s excala, also dapheonix. He might be the best WvW ele playing right now, period.

If he makes a cameo in this thread (as he does time to time) you should take note and pay attention. He will teach you a thing or two (or ten).

@Occam

“7) More than once when he runs away to heal they stop and fight his pet”

Did you ever try to chase a DD Elem? Yeah…

Seeing as most of you people think it’s normal to kill 10+ very bad players as a skilled player, let me ask you this.
Why can’t my class do it?
I’m a warrior and I’ve gone up against very, very bad players before but I don’t have the heals or boons to outlast that many players.
Why is it okay to for a d/d ele to be able to do this, but not other classes?

Kardiamond.6952

Did you ever try it?

I do it often on my necro.

The result? They swap to water, get all their boon back like 1-2 sec after losing them, and removing every condition.

To be fair, swapping to water will only produce ONE boon. That is, regen.

And in threads dapheonix has popped up in he claims to have the most trouble with good/geared Necro’s (who corrupt his boons).

Zorlak.7926:

Seeing as most of you people think it’s normal to kill 10+ very bad players as a skilled player, let me ask you this.
Why can’t my class do it?
I’m a warrior and I’ve gone up against very, very bad players before but I don’t have the heals or boons to outlast that many players.
Why is it okay to for a d/d ele to be able to do this, but not other classes?

Cause 99% of D/D ele’s CAN’T do this. That’s excala, dapheonix. For all intents and purposes, he INVENTED the common D/D build seen amongst most D/D ele’s these days. He’s a master of the class, and of that build in particular.

He SEVERLY outskills just about anyone he meets on the battlefield. If you were as good at warrior as he is at Ele, you could probably kill that many noobs too (although the Warrior will NEVER be able to escape as easily as he can on Ele, but you’d kill faster).

Right..he s good and since you people are still trying to figure out how to knock that build down (severly and with no hope for anyone using it) I ll reveal it here so maybe you could cut this “pls nerf ele” thing..

Strenght on that build are boons and the ability to constantly renew them, use them against him and he will go down in less than 30 second, and even his escaping abilties will be nullified…one word “necromancer”

I am an ele and i dare ANY ele using that build to beat a good necro who is knowing what he s doing, not a chance on a million, no matter how high are the skill of that ele, when infact, the more is skilled the faster will go down…unfortunately, but i guess this is the way the game has been designed, any “class” has got its own nightmare and opponent on that matter.

Prove me wrong on this and i ll delete my toon :p

Bsquared.3421:

Cause 99% of D/D ele’s CAN’T do this. That’s excala, dapheonix. For all intents and purposes, he INVENTED the common D/D build seen amongst most D/D ele’s these days. He’s a master of the class, and of that build in particular.

He SEVERLY outskills just about anyone he meets on the battlefield. If you were as good at warrior as he is at Ele, you could probably kill that many noobs too (although the Warrior will NEVER be able to escape as easily as he can on Ele, but you’d kill faster).

I cannot get much if any better at playing a Warrior, I have 1000+ hours on my Warrior where a lot of that is spent in PvP. I’ve invented lots of builds that the people in the guild I am in, are using.
There is no way, no damn way I can kill 4-6 players that are all on me at the same time, I can down a few of them, maybe, but I can’t hope to reset the fight/finish people while invulnerable or out heal their damage.

I know the guy in the video is very, very skilled but lots of d/d eles can do these crazy 1v 3-6 and actually win.
Yes, d/d ele is hard to master, harder than other classes, but that is because Anet made it easy to master other classes compared to d/d eles, they have more abilities to use, thus making it harder.
But skill should not scale linearly with power. 2x skill should not equal 2x power.

Other people in this thread are also saying, bring this class, bring that class, do this, do that.
You’re basically saying, d/d eles should be treated as something that can’t be solo’d and must require a certain class.

Zorlak.7926

Other people in this thread are also saying, bring this class, bring that class, do this, do that.
You’re basically saying, d/d eles should be treated as something that can’t be solo’d and must require a certain class.

A bunker D/D Ele can’t be solo’d for the most part. Neither can a bunker Gaurdian, probably a bunker Engi or Necro, nor just about any well played thief (doesn’t even have to bunker, they can just stealth and run away).

But, if you play right, they won’t kill you either and will end up running away (this is when his kills happen, as he runs and stupid upleveled noobs follow him behind a wall/tunnel/mountain and get solo killed rather than just forgetting about him and working on a meaningful objective).

Zorlak.7926:

I cannot get much if any better at playing a Warrior, I have 1000+ hours on my Warrior where a lot of that is spent in PvP. I’ve invented lots of builds that the people in the guild I am in, are using.
There is no way, no damn way I can kill 4-6 players that are all on me at the same time, I can down a few of them, maybe, but I can’t hope to reset the fight/finish people while invulnerable or out heal their damage.

D/D ele will never be able to burst people down like you can while still retaining as much defense as warriors naturaly have.
Eles can never hope to cope with large amounts of cc as well as warriors can.
In team scenarios, eles can never push into enemy zergs the way warriors are able, atleast without quick retreat right after initial push.
Any good warrior could propably add some more things to that list, those are things i´ve observed my guild mates doing.

Strang.8170:

Zorlak.7926:

I cannot get much if any better at playing a Warrior, I have 1000+ hours on my Warrior where a lot of that is spent in PvP. I’ve invented lots of builds that the people in the guild I am in, are using.
There is no way, no damn way I can kill 4-6 players that are all on me at the same time, I can down a few of them, maybe, but I can’t hope to reset the fight/finish people while invulnerable or out heal their damage.

D/D ele will never be able to burst people down like you can while still retaining as much defense as warriors naturaly have.
Eles can never hope to cope with large amounts of cc as well as warriors can.
In team scenarios, eles can never push into enemy zergs the way warriors are able, atleast without quick retreat right after initial push.
Any good warrior could propably add some more things to that list, those are things i´ve observed my guild mates doing.

Actually I find, D/D eles to be the best at pushing enemies away. Warriors do not have the mobility of D/D eles to just go straight into the back line without dying or getting perma cced and return to your own zerg alive after your initial rotation.

Bsquared.3421:

A bunker D/D Ele can’t be solo’d for the most part. Neither can a bunker Gaurdian, probably a bunker Engi or Necro, nor just about any well played thief (doesn’t even have to bunker, they can just stealth and run away).

But, if you play right, they won’t kill you either and will end up running away (this is when his kills happen, as he runs and stupid upleveled noobs follow him behind a wall/tunnel/mountain and get solo killed rather than just forgetting about him and working on a meaningful objective).

Yes, there are other stupidly OP specs but does that justify d/d eles being this good?
Is it so hard to see that these specs, like the bunker guardian, some thief specs are too good/op compared to other classes and need to be nerfed/looked at?

This is not balanced, when a class “can’t be solo’d for the most part” there is something wrong.
d/d eles for example, can be “immortal”, if they see they can’t kill the people they’re up against, they can easily escape, if they kill them, they do.
Saying that “you need x to kill him” is not a valid argument, it just shows that there is an imbalance.

Cempa.5619:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzBn32Fqm9w

What are the learning’s that player can take out of this video? I ask because I can’t help but wounder how it is even possible to do what this guy is doing?

I can tell you what I learned from that video. 3 things. 1, elementalists can be built to be much more effective than any I’ve come across in T1. 2, that guy really knows how to play ele. and 3, that guy loves farming badges, while accomplishing little to nothing for his/her server. If you look at all the spots he’s fighting in, he’s basically just taunting players out of their spawn to chase him so he can kite and AoErape them. Not affecting his server’s PPT in any fashion, as the fools that chase him wouldn’t be contributing anything useful except maybe in the form of being more bodies in a zerg to their own server’s effort anyway.

Don’t get me wrong, people who are built and have the skill for going solo in WvW can be very useful. For example, he could be assaulting a supply camp that is feeding a keep that his server is sieging, which would not only cut off repair supply but possibly distract enough enemies to keep them from reinforcing the defense efforts. He could roam and kill yaks, or blast stragglers who are rushing to a nearby zerg. But no, he chooses to grab the idiots (who are probably the easiest kills anyway) near their spawn because they’re dumb enough to chase him all the way to the spiders.

Zorlak.7926:

Bsquared.3421:

A bunker D/D Ele can’t be solo’d for the most part. Neither can a bunker Gaurdian, probably a bunker Engi or Necro, nor just about any well played thief (doesn’t even have to bunker, they can just stealth and run away).

But, if you play right, they won’t kill you either and will end up running away (this is when his kills happen, as he runs and stupid upleveled noobs follow him behind a wall/tunnel/mountain and get solo killed rather than just forgetting about him and working on a meaningful objective).

Yes, there are other stupidly OP specs but does that justify d/d eles being this good?
Is it so hard to see that these specs, like the bunker guardian, some thief specs are too good/op compared to other classes and need to be nerfed/looked at?

This is not balanced, when a class “can’t be solo’d for the most part” there is something wrong.
d/d eles for example, can be “immortal”, if they see they can’t kill the people they’re up against, they can easily escape, if they kill them, they do.
Saying that “you need x to kill him” is not a valid argument, it just shows that there is an imbalance.

Bunker anything(ele, guardian, engi, necro , even warriors and thieves who are considered squishy and possibly others) is hard to kill solo. Especially if you run full berserkers. That’s the point of being a bunker spec. You soak up damage so others can kill. However, even though that ele in the video was killing everything its mostly bad players(with berserkers) or underleveled characters. Do you know how long a D/D bunker ele needs to fight to kill anything solo? Especially after the evasive arcana nerf.

Also, the video was pre-evasive arcana nerf. You can see he is getting ridiculously high might stacks from blast finisher from EA, but this is not possible anymore.

I never thought of teleporting during the churning earth channel…

I will have to try that on my ele alt.

Churros.7196:

Strang.8170:

Zorlak.7926:

I cannot get much if any better at playing a Warrior, I have 1000+ hours on my Warrior where a lot of that is spent in PvP. I’ve invented lots of builds that the people in the guild I am in, are using.
There is no way, no damn way I can kill 4-6 players that are all on me at the same time, I can down a few of them, maybe, but I can’t hope to reset the fight/finish people while invulnerable or out heal their damage.

D/D ele will never be able to burst people down like you can while still retaining as much defense as warriors naturaly have.
Eles can never hope to cope with large amounts of cc as well as warriors can.
In team scenarios, eles can never push into enemy zergs the way warriors are able, atleast without quick retreat right after initial push.
Any good warrior could propably add some more things to that list, those are things i´ve observed my guild mates doing.

Actually I find, D/D eles to be the best at pushing enemies away. Warriors do not have the mobility of D/D eles to just go straight into the back line without dying or getting perma cced and return to your own zerg alive after your initial rotation.

When running with large amounts of randoms maybe.

That you are required, rathter fast i might add, to return to backline, is not good pushing.
When you push it good you break into enemy and stay there, eventualy making them completely break apart.

LegoTechnic.5910:

I never thought of teleporting during the churning earth channel…

I will have to try that on my ele alt.

You have to watch the enemy if they dodge though. Because good players when they see an ele casting churning earth, they wait for the casting to end for the dodge. Lighting Flash becomes wasted if this happens.

The player is obviously very skilled, and I talked to him after I got sick of seeing a helpless mob chase him around and went to help and we finally downed him. (after I had first tried to get them to just stop engaging). What I gathered its clear he was just there to have fun, drag out as many people (victims) as he could and have them be props for his videos.

That’s fine, but the topic should really be about what the title suggests. Should a build be able to do this, no matter how good the player? I really don’t care for these bunker and endless escape specs coming into WvW just disrupting the natural design, for no other reason than that such things like the video are possible, and its more fun to run around like a demi-god than just be a grunt in the army.

A build should be able to be either very survivable OR have great mobility and escape, not both things together. As a Necro I can build to be very survivable, but I can never build to have great mobility. This was the tradeoff designed on purpose as explained by Jon Peters. What is the trade-off here in this video? You don’t have to make one. Can say maybe that they hit like a wet noodle, but obviously you can still get kills as in the video and are virtually assured to eventually win any 1v1 if you are pretty good.