Guild Wars 2

Strang.8170:

D/D ele will never be able to burst people down like you can while still retaining as much defense as warriors naturaly have.
Eles can never hope to cope with large amounts of cc as well as warriors can.
In team scenarios, eles can never push into enemy zergs the way warriors are able, atleast without quick retreat right after initial push.
Any good warrior could propably add some more things to that list, those are things i´ve observed my guild mates doing.

Warriors being able to cope with large amounts of CC? Are you joking? Even the devs say warriors needs a buff in regards of coping with CC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hByqoWsnz-I 19:00 minute mark.

Churros.7196:

Bunker anything(ele, guardian, engi, necro , even warriors and thieves who are considered squishy and possibly others) is hard to kill solo. Especially if you run full berserkers. That’s the point of being a bunker spec. You soak up damage so others can kill. However, even though that ele in the video was killing everything its mostly bad players(with berserkers) or underleveled characters. Do you know how long a D/D bunker ele needs to fight to kill anything solo? Especially after the evasive arcana nerf.

Also, the video was pre-evasive arcana nerf. You can see he is getting ridiculously high might stacks from blast finisher from EA, but this is not possible anymore.

I think it’s getting derailed from what the topic is about.
Maybe I’m just upset that Warriors do not have the capability to do the stuff d/d eles can and that I’m limited by the game and not me and my skills.
I do not think it’s balanced, but that’s me and my opinion, maybe I’m wrong.

Zorlak.7926

Yes, there are other stupidly OP specs but does that justify d/d eles being this good?
Is it so hard to see that these specs, like the bunker guardian, some thief specs are too good/op compared to other classes and need to be nerfed/looked at?

D/D ele’s are generally not “this good.” Excala is against random noob, mostly upleveled scrubs who don’t know how to play.

And no, I do not consider a bunker class that cannot be solo’d to be OP. If a person wants to trait defensively, use all defensive utilities (e.g., 3 cantrips), gear defensively, and use a defensive playstyle, it would be pretty stupid if random scrubs could still kill them.

This is not balanced, when a class “can’t be solo’d for the most part” there is something wrong.

I should have clarified, D/D ele’s CAN be solo’d by some well played classes (necro, for example) if the Ele is dumb enough to hang around or gets outplayed.

In this sense, they might be considered somewhat “immortal” in that they can run away, but they are far from the only class being capable of this and WHO CARES. They can’t kill you either!!

I cannot stress this enough. If you’re lvl 80 and equally geared/skilled as them, they WON’T kill you. Who cares if they flee. Just go back to the business of WvW and leave that kill alone. I’ve done this all the time when facing a bunker Guardian (and I was using the bunker D/D spec). We fight for a minute or so, neither of us are getting anywhere, so I simply walk away and go do something more useful/fun. There is no shame is fleeing or stopping a fruitless fight that’s accomplishing nothing! There is no “deathmatch” mode in this game, fights CAN end without someone taking a dirt nap!

Warriors being able to cope with large amounts of CC? Are you joking? Even the devs say warriors needs a buff in regards of coping with CC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hByqoWsnz-I 19:00 minute mark.

And to be fair, I’d be inclined to agree with the Devs on that one. They could use some condition removal help as well. Rangers need the most love imo, however.

Pendragon.8735:

The player is obviously very skilled, and I talked to him after I got sick of seeing a helpless mob chase him around and went to help and we finally downed him. What I gathered its clear he was just there to have fun, drag out as many people (victims) as he could and have them be props for his videos.

That’s fine, but the topic should really be about what the title suggests. Should a build be able to do this, no matter how good the player? I really don’t care for these bunker and endless escape specs coming into WvW just disrupting the natural design, for no other reason than that such things like the video are possible, and its more fun to run around like a demi-god than just be a grunt in the army.

A build should be able to be either very survivable OR have great mobility and escape, not both things together. As a Necro I can build to be very survivable, but I can never build to have great mobility. This was the tradeoff designed on purpose as explained by Jon Peters. What is the trade-off here in this video? You don’t have to make one. Can say maybe that they hit like a wet noodle, but obviously you can still get kills as in the video and are virtually assured to eventually win any 1v1 if you are pretty good.

D/D eles need to be mobile because they cannot weapon swap. If they allowed weapon swap so we can adjust to range like anyother class can do, it would be fine to take away the mobility. However, if Eles could swap weapons, there would be some ridiculous one hit combos or perma healing eles. In the current state, D/D eles have one skill with a range of 600.

Also, the damage in the video is pre nerf. You cannot have 20 might stacks when playing alone after the EA nerf.

^ Well there are degrees of mobility from decent to awesome, it doesn’t have to be the latter. Obviously you need some. But if you are using a weapon that is built for close range, then that is the range you have chosen to fight at. It should not be a one way option to close distance and then leave simply at whim, short of a whole mob of players hammering on you with cc. Granted the players in the video should have been able to do this with so many of them, but what about just 1 or 2 opponents? I’m not sure they could do anything but be at the mercy of the ele in that case.

Zorlak.7926

I think it’s getting derailed from what the topic is about.
Maybe I’m just upset that Warriors do not have the capability to do the stuff d/d eles can and that I’m limited by the game and not me and my skills.
I do not think it’s balanced, but that’s me and my opinion, maybe I’m wrong.

I can see how that might upset you to some extent, but different classes bring different benefits to the table.

A D/D bunker Ele might be able to lead a random noob zerg on laps around the map. But they’ll never be able to do what the Lords of Death Charr Warrior Pain Train can do either… (if you don’t know what I’m talking about, check out some of their videos)

Boon duration runes, maxed arcana tree, +2% dmg for each unique boon, boons on attunement switch, boons on cantrips, boons on auras, high healing power, high mobility, the majority of damage comes from the fire fields and bleed stacks, single focus burst an enemy when they reach low hp, mist form stomp, RTL used both as an escape and a gap closer, updraft for an extra dodge interrupt and swiftness.

The counter: immobilize…no really.

The ele will cleanse immobilize (A lot), but at some point during the fight the ele will have 18 seconds until he can use a cleanse. (Water 5 on CD, in water attunement, cleansing fire on CD).

The biggest strength of a D/D ele is without doubt their mobility. Only second to thieves at choosing where and when they want to fight.

@Zorak
You aren’t getting it. ThiOP at aOP at all. This build literally focused on out lasting your opponent and killing them slowly at the same time? How? The ele does some fancy tricks, some cc, etc but that obviously won’t kill you since the damage is completely crap. You as a player notice this weak damage, so what do you do? Heal up and start attacking again.

There is your mistake. Once you heal up, its good game. We keep doing our weak damage over and over, but that damage still adds up. And since you already healed, you get wasted.

D/D ele’s arenot immortal, they just require you to know their weakness in order to kill them. Just like a thief, a warrior, a necro, etc.
And the reason why people are stating necros to kill a d/d ele, isn’t because that is the ONLY class that can kill them. But the fact that a good necro can kitten the face off that d/d ele within seconds. Seriously.

What I learned?

I learned that when a D/D Ele shows up the opponent freezes up as he/she doesn’t know how to counter it due to these “Rumours” of unkillable D/D eles.

FYI, D/D eles CAN be killed, stop begging for nerfs when you die to a D/D ele because he/she outplayed/outsmarted you, seriously, we have been nerfed so many times now it is now becoming common on waiting for the next patch to see what gets nerfed next.

Excala aka DaPheonix, Has mastered the class to its full potential, He has even made guides (Which have been ignored by mods/devs for a sticky) for all the new players that are new the the class and will help you in almost any case.

Eles NEED to run “bunker” D/D builds (Don’t consider this a bunker, Its considered as outplaying) or we will just get 1 shotted by everything.

People also need to realize that Gear/Runes/Sigils/Accesories matter, Most D/D eles run with PVT Gear so they have more toughness & Vitality than default methods.

Elementalists have been nerfed, how many times now? we only have 2-4 (Maybe) useful builds, but most traits on those builds are broken.

I just wish people would play the class before calling for nerfs etc. on it rather than playing 1 class and saying this class killed him, it’s OP omg nerfz plz/

(Btw, this post isn’t directed to the OP in anyway, but to everyone who wants eles nerfed yet again, I’m just saying that people who call for nerfs anywhere have L2P issues and aren’t willing to face them head on.)

that’s what i learned.

I learned to attack anyone who goes for Vistas or Skill point challenges. My lord I have been doing WvW all wrong. These are perfect places to stop enemy advances

That a well placed moa morph would have ended it all.

I think a d/d is a complete package and a hard counter to many different play styles. In skilled hands it’s capable of killing and drawing the attention of a significant amount of players as well as remaining alive the whole time. One equally skilled opponent, however, will force the d/d to withdraw. Add in any average person and the d/d will die.

There are way more d/d eles on the battlefield now than ever before so anyone having trouble with them should be getting a lot of practice. Depending on your own characters role and build you may not be able to beat them but remember this is a team game. In a team environment the d/d ele is not as powerful unless you let it be.

Pendragon.8735:

The player is obviously very skilled, and I talked to him after I got sick of seeing a helpless mob chase him around and went to help and we finally downed him. (after I had first tried to get them to just stop engaging). What I gathered its clear he was just there to have fun, drag out as many people (victims) as he could and have them be props for his videos.

That’s fine, but the topic should really be about what the title suggests. Should a build be able to do this, no matter how good the player? I really don’t care for these bunker and endless escape specs coming into WvW just disrupting the natural design, for no other reason than that such things like the video are possible, and its more fun to run around like a demi-god than just be a grunt in the army.

A build should be able to be either very survivable OR have great mobility and escape, not both things together. As a Necro I can build to be very survivable, but I can never build to have great mobility. This was the tradeoff designed on purpose as explained by Jon Peters. What is the trade-off here in this video? You don’t have to make one. Can say maybe that they hit like a wet noodle, but obviously you can still get kills as in the video and are virtually assured to eventually win any 1v1 if you are pretty good.

I guess you missed the part where Ele is the only class to have the lowest armor and vit…this is what they get in exchange.

Simonoly.4352:

That a well placed moa morph would have ended it all.

Moa morph can be easily counter by spamming #5 which charges you out of combat faster than RTL. It’s basically a free RTL but with a greater range. Only noobs die to moa morph, unless they are in a confine environment.

Lotta elemetalists defending their OPness

Hackuuna.4085:

I think a d/d is a complete package and a hard counter to many different play styles. In skilled hands it’s capable of killing and drawing the attention of a significant amount of players as well as remaining alive the whole time. One equally skilled opponent, however, will force the d/d to withdraw. Add in any average person and the d/d will die.

There are way more d/d eles on the battlefield now than ever before so anyone having trouble with them should be getting a lot of practice. Depending on your own characters role and build you may not be able to beat them but remember this is a team game. In a team environment the d/d ele is not as powerful unless you let it be.

I agree on that, and if you pair them with other classes you can get some good results either for holding camps, taking towers, etc. In the end it all depends of the skill of the player and their enemies.

I found another video that gives you an idea of that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPyfRqW9IYY

I somehow suck on 1vs3 on my engineer, 1vs2 i do ok if there isnt a a good thief/mesmer one of them. Gladly i rerolled a mesmer, now i can finally enjoy 1vs3-5

ele is good in good hands, who understand – it hardcore use of keyboard to success
if u plan change to ele, for example, from thief or ranger, u gonna cry alot. spam 1 button against sensible spam about 20

Bsquared.3421:

Zorlak.7926:

Seeing as most of you people think it’s normal to kill 10+ very bad players as a skilled player, let me ask you this.
Why can’t my class do it?
I’m a warrior and I’ve gone up against very, very bad players before but I don’t have the heals or boons to outlast that many players.
Why is it okay to for a d/d ele to be able to do this, but not other classes?

Heh wut? I can assure you he did not invent the d/d build. D/D was used before the game even launched.

Its fine to be a fanboy, but lets not make absurd claims.

But yea to the people in this thread, quit complaining, if you are a good player you will be able to 1v10 bad players on any class, if you arent a good player then you wont, tough luck.

For those saying engineers arent good at it;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9IdpgUJCvs

For those saying warriors cant do it, Ill give video proof of it at a later date, although I have already done it.

Bad people dont use CC and dont dodge, any class has the capacity to kill such players when used properly.

And ppl complain about my thief 100x more often, why?

But anyway. Mad skillz. I’d definitely not be able to beat this guy on my thief. Not yet anyway.

Some people make the mistake of watching dapheonix, one of the best d/d elementalists in the game right now, and using what he does in his videos to make generalizations about the opness of d/d eles. Don’t make that mistake. He is an amazing and highly skilled player, and players of his skill level will and should be able to do amazing things. The only thing op in this video is dapheonix himself. Your typical d/d ele will still blow his cool downs when pressured, get bull rushed, and go down to 100 blades/evisceration.

Did you guys really make a thread on one of my videos o.O?

Well these are my favorite videos so far in terms of how I play, and fairly represent my current skill level.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2_GXr9o-Us
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeZODCzAPgw
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEEkv8KmkTs
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s08bmVKG_DU

In video link 2, I had fought 5 level 80s and one non level 80, and had been lagging at the start. I also almost died several times and was CC’d a lot of times, and having the lowest base hp and armor doesn’t really help either. I’m not always fighting under leveled players, and the video linked there was a month old (I’ve gotten a lot better since then)
The main reason I actually almost pulled off a kill there (or a few) in video link 2 was because I always set up ambushes / plan several moves ahead, and had gotten some fairly strong ambushes off. I had never fought a battle there whatsoever before, so this terrain was unfamiliar to me, and all the terrain tactics used there I made up on the spot.

On the December 14th update, D/D elementalist have received an indirect nerf to mobility and sustainability, as all other classes (maybe not engineers) had received buffs. There weren’t any real buffs to d/d elementalists besides the bug fixes, and the desperately needed trait for fall damage and buff to underwater combat abilities.

Some particular buffs that have hurt the current state of d/d elementalist’s mobility are the following buffs:
Signet of the Locust: Passive movement speed has increased from 10% to 25%.
Signet of the Hunt: Increased the passive movement from 10% to 25%.
Power Shoes: Increased move speed to 25%.
Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.

I don’t know exactly how often a ranger, necro, engineer, or thief would use those abilities, but this has decreased the overall effectiveness of the d/d elementalist’s mobility. There’s also been lots of improvements in DPS buffs (well maybe not engineer) to other class’s abilities, so that’s a factor impinging against the sustainability of the d/d elementalist.

As to how strong a D/D elementalist is, I can tell you that I’ve died many times to 2v1s. Most of the time its against 2 spike oriented classes that catch me out in open terrain. I had one video (not uploaded) where one good necro amongst a few bad players was fighting had dealt more damage than the entire team combined, and was proccing my frost aura intentionally on himself so that he could transfer 10+seconds of chill onto me, in addition to removing my boons and apply weakness (so that my dodge rate was cut by a factor of 4), and cripple. A d/d elementalist relies heavily on mobility, and once that gets cut off, then it is fairly to kill one thereafter.

I hope this answers most of your concerns.
Thanks for all the compliments too

Can we stop acting like this Daphoenix character is the best Ele in the world, all you are doing is feeding this guys ego. Any Ele player (or any player in fact) who know his profession, knows how to kite, know’s how to use CC, use LOS, when to use abilities, has built his character properly can do this kind of stuff. It’s not exclusive to Ele’s either, other professions can pull of similar feats.

I learned that I can be impressed by highly skilled players, however I am new to any pvp in general so don’t think my opinion counts for a lot, but that guy is good!

I’ve learned that D/D ele is Thief 2.0

Yawn. This topic again.

What other builds -from any class- can do what this build is doing?

Cempa.5619:

What other builds -from any class- can do what this build is doing?

oooohhh, trollolo thread resurrection.

What other profession can stomp on clueless people? Why all of them i think.