Guild Wars 2

Obviously, some people will not agree with this post. If that’s you, please think about saving both of us time and don’t reply at all.
We all know that WvW needs a shake up. I think standard positioning of siege and counter siege is established and could do with some change.

• The worst offenders are the (thankfully) relatively rare massive Omega golem rush
  and
• Piles of point blank Superior catapults

SO, here is one suggestion:
What would happen if catapults had a minimum range?

This could be handled in a number of ways, here are some suggestions:

1. They instantly killed anybody nearby the user if set up next to a wall (if you jump off it before it ends firing, you would still die), OR
2. They do no damage until fired to the minimum range

Damage begins at 0.1 and end at 1.0 at 75% max range.

No need to go to extremes with no damage.

Although I personally favor friendly fire on all weapons. The first day of zerging would be hilarious.

Svarty.8019:

Obviously, some people will not agree with this post. If that’s you, please think about saving both of us time and don’t reply at all.

How self-entitled are you that you think you deserve to be able to make a thread and have no one disagree with you?

I like it… same for trebs. Not sure a change like this would be high on my list but still solid idea.

Take a look at the mechanics.

A catapult will throw a missile with enough force to damage a wall in a tower or keep. It doesn’t really matter how close the catapult is to the wall as long as the throwing arm can move. So no, I don’t agree with a minimum range – it’s illogical and not sensible.

Catapults cause splash damage when the missile hits. I suppose it breaks apart, or bits of wall fly off from the impact. There’s no reason why the catapult itself should be immune to this sort of damage, so logically I’d accept friendly fire for siege items (rather than players which I think most people would dislike).

In fact if we’re going to take a look at this, why does one flame ram not set fire to the others next to it?
Perhaps ALL siege should cause damage to siege, friendly or otherwise. That would make things a bit interesting…

Before they make any changes to siege, the first thing they need to spend time on is enabling auto attack. On Rams this is a no brainer, on cata’s the projectile will go the minimum distance if you enable auto.

I kinda like your ideas as an operator error.

You guys ever watch Renovation realities? Critical chainsaw elite skill!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUjgmSh9bmE

Yuffi.2430:

In fact if we’re going to take a look at this, why does one flame ram not set fire to the others next to it?

The problem is that you would never be able to open a tower gate with rams anymore if the tower is upgraded (unless you want to spend an eternity single ramming a fortified gate)… There is not enough space to put rams that would be outside the AoE fire range.

We all know that superior catapults, built right in front of a wall are kind of silly, but I assume the damage scaling with range is a bit difficult to implement. Perhaps the other way around, preventing catas to be built so close would be better. The problem might be the game engine making a difference between the different siege.
A “moat / murder holes” tactics upgrade would work, too (if triggered, it damages all enemy siege at 300 range from walls and gates).

People build catas close to walls, because AoE can keep enemies from defending or throwing disablers. Siege a bit further away would give defenders a better chance.
We also should not forget how “repair-hammer-BETA” will shake up placement both defensively and offensively.

IMO better solution

Damage increase as the catapult shot is charged; 100% charged shot deals more damage than a point blank tap

Damage increase = the number of extra shots you would get from point blank

Depending on how people feel about it, tune down catapult damage to match

Lets you put your catapult wherever you like and it’ll still be fully effective, people will naturally decide to put their catapults somewhere more sensible than melee

Adding friendly fire to all siege would prolly be healthy.

I disagree with op.

HoneyBadger.5691:

Adding friendly fire to all siege would prolly be healthy.

All siege? I can’t stop laughing imagining an enemy Zerg being rained on by ACs then your Zerg + CMD shows up into the fray all the while being pelt on by friendly fire ACs.

Don’t think it would be very fun.

Zephyra.4709:

Don’t think it would be very fun.

I think it would. It promote people to stop rellying on siege to win fights.

Zephyra.4709:

HoneyBadger.5691:

Adding friendly fire to all siege would prolly be healthy.

All siege? I can’t stop laughing imagining an enemy Zerg being rained on by ACs then your Zerg + CMD shows up into the fray all the while being pelt on by friendly fire ACs.

Don’t think it would be very fun.

Dont worry, full friendly fire solve this issue.

The zerg wont even arrive because they are laying dead near spawn where they tried to symbol stack speed.

Dawdler.8521:

Zephyra.4709:

HoneyBadger.5691:

Adding friendly fire to all siege would prolly be healthy.

All siege? I can’t stop laughing imagining an enemy Zerg being rained on by ACs then your Zerg + CMD shows up into the fray all the while being pelt on by friendly fire ACs.

Don’t think it would be very fun.

Dont worry, full friendly fire solve this issue.

The zerg wont even arrive because they are laying dead near spawn where they tried to symbol stack speed.

I think we’ve gone off-topic. Let’s get back to sensible suggestions about how the catapults can be forced away from point-blank positioning.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Before they make any changes to siege, the first thing they need to spend time on is enabling auto attack. On Rams this is a no brainer, on cata’s the projectile will go the minimum distance if you enable auto.

+1

Sarrs.4831:

IMO better solution

Damage increase as the catapult shot is charged; 100% charged shot deals more damage than a point blank tap

Damage increase = the number of extra shots you would get from point blank

Depending on how people feel about it, tune down catapult damage to match

Lets you put your catapult wherever you like and it’ll still be fully effective, people will naturally decide to put their catapults somewhere more sensible than melee

+1

HoneyBadger.5691:

Adding friendly fire to all siege would prolly be healthy.

+1

Jeknar.6184:

I think it would. It promote people to stop rellying on siege to win fights.

+1

Since the forum is being a donkey and refuse to store my +1 buttons today.

I DISAGREE and Im going to make you read this post.

A point-blank catapult would still damage a wall because physics actual exist and it’s silly to think it shouldn’t.

Catapults are not a problem in WvW.

TheHeretic.3529:

I DISAGREE and Im going to make you read this post.

A point-blank catapult would still damage a wall because physics actual exist and it’s silly to think it shouldn’t.

Catapults are not a problem in WvW.

Cool beans.

We’ll just need a few specific things also changed because “realism!”

1. Burning now lasts indefinitely and can not be removed from catapults (or other wooden siege) without placing a water field on it.
2. Each firing now requires supply to be spent to simulate a supply of rocks.
3. Turning a catapult now requires 3-5 people at a time to turn it as superior catas are clearly staked to the ground with no wheels or pivot. 1-2 if norn, 6-8 if asura.
4. Priming the catapult now takes much longer to realistically reflect the time it takes to reload in reality.
5. Over 50% damage to a siege implement will now disable to to reflect it’s inability to function with extreme structural integrity problems.

Sarrs.4831:

IMO better solution
Damage increase as the catapult shot is charged; 100% charged shot deals more damage than a point blank tap. […]

Lets you put your catapult wherever you like and it’ll still be fully effective, people will naturally decide to put their catapults somewhere more sensible than melee

It would be interesting, but it might affect the door>wall problem that already exists. It is faster to attack the gate, if this is implemented, then it is even better to attack gates over walls. Also I am not sure if there really will be a choice of the commander afterwards or if outside ac-reach will be the new “meta” of positioning in most cases.

I think point-black catas aren’t really a problem atm. Friendly fire and other silly ideas that break most combat situations (like having more than one ram on a gate or a golem in your zerg) are funny to think about but probably not the right thing for a game that takes itself seriously. Maybe fun for a few days, but too much work for the result.

Svarty.8019:

Obviously, some people will not agree with this post. If that’s you, please think about saving both of us time and don’t reply at all.
We all know that WvW needs a shake up. I think standard positioning of siege and counter siege is established and could do with some change.

• The worst offenders are the (thankfully) relatively rare massive Omega golem rush
  and
• Piles of point blank Superior catapults

SO, here is one suggestion:
What would happen if catapults had a minimum range?

This could be handled in a number of ways, here are some suggestions:

1. They instantly killed anybody nearby the user if set up next to a wall (if you jump off it before it ends firing, you would still die), OR
2. They do no damage until fired to the minimum range

No thank you. Seige is part of rvr so learn to counter seige and use tactics.

Jeknar.6184:

Zephyra.4709:

Don’t think it would be very fun.

I think it would. It promote people to stop rellying on siege to win fights.

Siege is a valid way to win fights. Just because most of us would prefer to be able to have decent fights doesn’t make it any less valid as a tactic.

As to the OP’s suggestion: NO. There is no reason whatsoever to make a minimum distance range on a catapult. If people plant them next to the wall it’s easy to throw a siege disabler on them, or to jump off and damage the kitten out of them if you are prepared to die doing it. The real problem is the wall flowers that stand and watch while the wall is destroyed whilst doing nothing as their attempt to build a AC on the wall failed and they are out of ideas.

People need to learn to act and think rather than be lead like sheep all the time. I blame those pve mega events that people afk at.

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread. Unfortunately, I think you all realize that friendly fire will never be an option. “Siege trolling” would get on a whole new level.

To stay with your idea, why not a bit of splash damage when the catapult is too close to the wall. But realistically, catapults can fire from quite close, so I don’t think you would see much change in gameplay.

A neat idea would be to have a new defensive siege weapon, that would function like hot oil (but mobile), something like “machicolation”. That way, you could rain rocks from the rampart onto the catapults, if they are built too close to the wall.

Better yet, machicolation could be a defensive upgrade. When the fort/tower is upgraded, you can rain rocks from anywhere on the rampart, for a certain cost in supplies.

Sarrs.4831:

IMO better solution

Damage increase as the catapult shot is charged; 100% charged shot deals more damage than a point blank tap

Damage increase = the number of extra shots you would get from point blank

Depending on how people feel about it, tune down catapult damage to match

Lets you put your catapult wherever you like and it’ll still be fully effective, people will naturally decide to put their catapults somewhere more sensible than melee

I’ve been advocating this for years and always got chewed out about it because it would kill ktraining.

I still advocate for it.

DeceiverX.8361:

Sarrs.4831:

IMO better solution

Damage increase as the catapult shot is charged; 100% charged shot deals more damage than a point blank tap

Damage increase = the number of extra shots you would get from point blank

Depending on how people feel about it, tune down catapult damage to match

Lets you put your catapult wherever you like and it’ll still be fully effective, people will naturally decide to put their catapults somewhere more sensible than melee

I’ve been advocating this for years and always got chewed out about it because it would kill ktraining.

I still advocate for it.

The issue I see is you can still do 100% charge right against the wall.

Rink.6108:

It would be interesting, but it might affect the door>wall problem that already exists. It is faster to attack the gate, if this is implemented, then it is even better to attack gates over walls. Also I am not sure if there really will be a choice of the commander afterwards or if outside ac-reach will be the new “meta” of positioning in most cases.

I think point-black catas aren’t really a problem atm. Friendly fire and other silly ideas that break most combat situations (like having more than one ram on a gate or a golem in your zerg) are funny to think about but probably not the right thing for a game that takes itself seriously. Maybe fun for a few days, but too much work for the result.

I personally don’t really mind point-blank catapults but if they are an issue it’s a better way to solve the problem. It doesn’t kill pb catapult, you can still do it, there’s just better incentive to planting it at distance.

Hexinx.1872:

The issue I see is you can still do 100% charge right against the wall.

But there’d be no point to doing 100% charge while pointblanking.

The problem with catapults, as it stands, is that because of the recharge time on the shot you get better DPS by shooting from melee. That’s all that needs to be fixed.

Sarrs.4831:

I personally don’t really mind point-blank catapults but if they are an issue it’s a better way to solve the problem. It doesn’t kill pb catapult, you can still do it, there’s just better incentive to planting it at distance.

I am proposing this change because I think we can all see that catapults were never intended to be used point-blank. I think it’s not really a problem in the game, but the standard siege locations are a bit boring and in many cases (e.g. the bottom of Mendon’s cliff) cheesy. Having said this, my ideas above may not be sufficient to improve things.

Sarrs.4831:

Hexinx.1872:

The issue I see is you can still do 100% charge right against the wall.

But there’d be no point to doing 100% charge while pointblanking.

The problem with catapults, as it stands, is that because of the recharge time on the shot you get better DPS by shooting from melee. That’s all that needs to be fixed.

One of my propositions above is that no damage is done unless the catapult is outside of a certain distance from the thing it hits. I believe this would address your concern BUT it would lead to a weird non-intuitive behaviour where you could shoot a catapult at a wall from close up and nothing would happen.

Blix.8021:

Svarty.8019:

Obviously, some people will not agree with this post. If that’s you, please think about saving both of us time and don’t reply at all.

How self-entitled are you that you think you deserve to be able to make a thread and have no one disagree with you?

+1
If you just wish to make a statement Anet has Email.
Forums are for discussion

LetoII.3782:

Blix.8021:

Svarty.8019:

Obviously, some people will not agree with this post. If that’s you, please think about saving both of us time and don’t reply at all.

How self-entitled are you that you think you deserve to be able to make a thread and have no one disagree with you?

+1
If you just wish to make a statement Anet has Email.
Forums are for discussion

Can we please stay on the topic of catapults?

Svarty.8019:

LetoII.3782:

Blix.8021:

Svarty.8019:

Obviously, some people will not agree with this post. If that’s you, please think about saving both of us time and don’t reply at all.

How self-entitled are you that you think you deserve to be able to make a thread and have no one disagree with you?

+1
If you just wish to make a statement Anet has Email.
Forums are for discussion

Can we please stay on the topic of catapults?

No.