Guild Wars 2

So my friend came up with a cool idea for wvw this is it.

So the main reason I think people are stupid in WvW is they think you must absolute protect your EBG corner and your BL
That’s so stupid because if a server takes our Garrison and we take their Garrison, is that an even trade? yes it is. Then why in the F do people have such a hard on about protecting our own Garrison if we own another BL’s entire map? If Garrison or EBG was to matter there needs to be a penalty in losing it: You get a reduction in your progress in your PPT If it was at 2100., losing it brings you back to 2000. At this point, holding onto those objectives make more sense. But also, taking it from the enemy servers makes it desirable because you know it would cost them

Go back to pve land

That makes no Since Novahh

Jedex.4261:

. But also, taking it from the enemy servers makes it desirable because you know it would cost them

Re-read this.

The home BL is like your meat and potatoes. Set amount of ppt. Owning anything on other maps is the gravy.

Back to the above sentence: If taking their map would cost them, what does them taking your map cost?

Jedex.4261:

That makes no Since Novahh

The way ANet does stuff is not made in the mentality of trade offs and power to choose/decide for one thing over the other, ANet overall for what i understand and seen is that they dont want players to have that kind of pusnishment(as they see the tradeoffs as punishments), all they think is increase rewards/or wathever is the results the players are looking with less effort, and less pusnishment.

Still, loosing stuff is bad, and when u loose stuff in BL or EB corner make very sense for people to get that way… its like ur getting stealled @ home , and WvW isnt EOTM where nothing matters….

(EDiT): and sorry about the confusing english :|

Jayne.9251:

Jedex.4261:

. But also, taking it from the enemy servers makes it desirable because you know it would cost them

Re-read this.

The home BL is like your meat and potatoes. Set amount of ppt. Owning anything on other maps is the gravy.

Back to the above sentence: If taking their map would cost them, what does them taking your map cost?

The question is: “What makes it the ‘meat and potatoes’ to you?” There is nothing special about owning your Garrison vs the enemy Garrison. The only thing it does is increase/decrease the morale depending on who’s Garrison was lost or defended.

Why focus on defending our Garrison versus controlling the enemy Garrison? The answer: Waypoints. Because we have a waypoint (Citadel) near our garrison, it’s much easier to run down a short ways to defend Garrison than trudge halfway across the map to defend/control the enemy Garrison.

Jedex.4261:

The question is: “What makes it the ‘meat and potatoes’ to you?” There is nothing special about owning your Garrison vs the enemy Garrison. The only thing it does is increase/decrease the morale depending on who’s Garrison was lost or defended.

Reverse the question.

It can apply both ways.

Owning it boosts morale.

Mysteriax.6049:

Why focus on defending our Garrison versus controlling the enemy Garrison? The answer: Waypoints. Because we have a waypoint (Citadel) near our garrison, it’s much easier to run down a short ways to defend Garrison than trudge halfway across the map to defend/control the enemy Garrison.

basically want a glorified waypoint? And how is that different than creating a glorified waypoint on the enemy map?

If combatants dispatch each other at the same time do both win?

Jedex.4261:

Mysteriax.6049:

Why focus on defending our Garrison versus controlling the enemy Garrison? The answer: Waypoints. Because we have a waypoint (Citadel) near our garrison, it’s much easier to run down a short ways to defend Garrison than trudge halfway across the map to defend/control the enemy Garrison.

basically want a glorified waypoint? And how is that different than creating a glorified waypoint on the enemy map?

Having a waypoint is very important…. for hills and bay defense is one of the examples…
Taking structures can be so fast and easy if u know what ur doing that if u run from spawn it will to late….

Still its the home borderlands… has much WvW is useless gameplay at least players see some pride on keeping their side clean of enemies.. so loose stuff is bad.

Jayne.9251:

Jedex.4261:

The question is: “What makes it the ‘meat and potatoes’ to you?” There is nothing special about owning your Garrison vs the enemy Garrison. The only thing it does is increase/decrease the morale depending on who’s Garrison was lost or defended.

Reverse the question.

It can apply both ways.

Owning it boosts morale.

did you reword it and say pretty much the same thing? redundant hahaha

Aeolus.3615:

Jedex.4261:

Mysteriax.6049:

Why focus on defending our Garrison versus controlling the enemy Garrison? The answer: Waypoints. Because we have a waypoint (Citadel) near our garrison, it’s much easier to run down a short ways to defend Garrison than trudge halfway across the map to defend/control the enemy Garrison.

basically want a glorified waypoint? And how is that different than creating a glorified waypoint on the enemy map?

Having a waypoint is very important…. for hills and bay defense is one of the examples…
Taking structures can be so fast and easy if u know what ur doing that if u run from spawn it will to late….

Still its the home borderlands… has much WvW is useless gameplay at least players see some pride on keeping their side clean of enemies.. so loose stuff is bad.

Not having waypoints only delay response time. It’s not a very harsh penalty to losing these keeps. You also lose your waypoints if the enemy does paper. So how is that much different from now? With that said, I’m not seeing that much of a difference between owning your Garrison or the enemy one.

Jedex.4261:

Aeolus.3615:

Jedex.4261:

Mysteriax.6049:

Why focus on defending our Garrison versus controlling the enemy Garrison? The answer: Waypoints. Because we have a waypoint (Citadel) near our garrison, it’s much easier to run down a short ways to defend Garrison than trudge halfway across the map to defend/control the enemy Garrison.

basically want a glorified waypoint? And how is that different than creating a glorified waypoint on the enemy map?

Having a waypoint is very important…. for hills and bay defense is one of the examples…
Taking structures can be so fast and easy if u know what ur doing that if u run from spawn it will to late….

Still its the home borderlands… has much WvW is useless gameplay at least players see some pride on keeping their side clean of enemies.. so loose stuff is bad.

Not having waypoints only delay response time. It’s not a very harsh penalty to losing these keeps. You also lose your waypoints if the enemy does paper. So how is that much different from now? With that said, I’m not seeing that much of a difference between owning your Garrison or the enemy one.

it is……
for how the game works..
u gain nothing in loosing stuff, but will loose alot….. cause if u arent of the server with more population on the match yoiur gona have a bad time, and the gap at the momment in WvW is really a large gap.

- you will loose point ticks
- total HP(more structure more HP… so zerg servers with more players have 3-4k hp advantage already…. over the smaller and outmaned servers).
- Chance of structures starting to get ktrained (wich is super easy already when they are t2, and on t3 a full stack zerg will melt that structure in 1 minute.. )
- Hard time to get it to t3 again for waypoint and more ticks points.
- much lower response for recap structures and camps

Would u mind if u go to your home and steal the tv or the ocmputer??
well u can still steal your neighbor tv and computer, i dont see much of diference in that… trade per trade….

Aeolus.3615:

Jedex.4261:

Aeolus.3615:

Jedex.4261:

Mysteriax.6049:

Why focus on defending our Garrison versus controlling the enemy Garrison? The answer: Waypoints. Because we have a waypoint (Citadel) near our garrison, it’s much easier to run down a short ways to defend Garrison than trudge halfway across the map to defend/control the enemy Garrison.

basically want a glorified waypoint? And how is that different than creating a glorified waypoint on the enemy map?

Having a waypoint is very important…. for hills and bay defense is one of the examples…
Taking structures can be so fast and easy if u know what ur doing that if u run from spawn it will to late….

Still its the home borderlands… has much WvW is useless gameplay at least players see some pride on keeping their side clean of enemies.. so loose stuff is bad.

Not having waypoints only delay response time. It’s not a very harsh penalty to losing these keeps. You also lose your waypoints if the enemy does paper. So how is that much different from now? With that said, I’m not seeing that much of a difference between owning your Garrison or the enemy one.

it is……

Nice Counter lol

Aeolus.3615:

Jedex.4261:

Aeolus.3615:

Jedex.4261:

Mysteriax.6049:

Why focus on defending our Garrison versus controlling the enemy Garrison? The answer: Waypoints. Because we have a waypoint (Citadel) near our garrison, it’s much easier to run down a short ways to defend Garrison than trudge halfway across the map to defend/control the enemy Garrison.

basically want a glorified waypoint? And how is that different than creating a glorified waypoint on the enemy map?

Having a waypoint is very important…. for hills and bay defense is one of the examples…
Taking structures can be so fast and easy if u know what ur doing that if u run from spawn it will to late….

Still its the home borderlands… has much WvW is useless gameplay at least players see some pride on keeping their side clean of enemies.. so loose stuff is bad.

Not having waypoints only delay response time. It’s not a very harsh penalty to losing these keeps. You also lose your waypoints if the enemy does paper. So how is that much different from now? With that said, I’m not seeing that much of a difference between owning your Garrison or the enemy one.

it is……
for how the game works..
u gain nothing in loosing stuff, but will loose alot….. cause if u arent of the server with more population on the match yoiur gona have a bad time, and the gap at the momment in WvW is really a large gap.

- you will loose point ticks
- total HP(more structure more HP… so zerg servers with more players have 3-4k hp advantage already…. over the smaller and outmaned servers).
- Chance of structures starting to get ktrained (wich is super easy already when they are t2, and on t3 a full stack zerg will melt that structure in 1 minute.. )
- Hard time to get it to t3 again for waypoint and more ticks points.
- much lower response for recap structures and camps

Would u mind if u go to your home and steal the tv or the ocmputer??
well u can still steal your neighbor tv and computer, i dont see much of diference in that… trade per trade….

1. That’s already assuming an automatic defeat without considering the offensive advantages. You have the same ability against the enemy. The point of what you could lose is irrelevant because they can lose it too.
2. Um, what does a theft of your neighbor’s property in RL have anything to do with a war game? LOL.

its an anology, the feeling that the home bl belongs to the players liek a house and others want to steal from them, players have some pride on the stuff that belongs to them.

What offensive advantages?
WvW is way to much based in aoe stacking and the more players the better…. if u loose a t3 or a garri, for use u dont have enough population to get any kind of advantage.

Jedex.4261:

Aeolus.3615:

Jedex.4261:

Mysteriax.6049:

Why focus on defending our Garrison versus controlling the enemy Garrison? The answer: Waypoints. Because we have a waypoint (Citadel) near our garrison, it’s much easier to run down a short ways to defend Garrison than trudge halfway across the map to defend/control the enemy Garrison.

basically want a glorified waypoint? And how is that different than creating a glorified waypoint on the enemy map?

Having a waypoint is very important…. for hills and bay defense is one of the examples…
Taking structures can be so fast and easy if u know what ur doing that if u run from spawn it will to late….

Still its the home borderlands… has much WvW is useless gameplay at least players see some pride on keeping their side clean of enemies.. so loose stuff is bad.

Not having waypoints only delay response time. It’s not a very harsh penalty to losing these keeps. You also lose your waypoints if the enemy does paper. So how is that much different from now? With that said, I’m not seeing that much of a difference between owning your Garrison or the enemy one.

Not having waypoints does more than delay response time. It also. Impacts quantity of response. Some portion of potential responders will be more likely to respond if there is a waypoint.

Improved mobility, which is what a waypoint represents, acts as a force multiplier by allowing you to bring your force to bear with greater efficiency.

Remember, “he who gets theah fustest with the mostest wins,”

I’m going to assume this isn’t just a troll post . . .

Your garris are more valuable than the enemy garris bc of the proximity of your spawn. This makes it easier to defend both the garri and its surrounding territory, making it easier to tier and therefore worth more. There, your question has been answered . . .

BL keeps are a little different and there you do have a point. Hills is pretty much just as easy to take and defend if you are the server with spawn in se corner as it is if you are the home server, so I’m not sure why ppl don’t respond to calls to defend a tiered keep in enemy bl with the same zeal they do in home bl and it would be better if they did . . .

But it is the proximity of the waypoints that makes all this true. Idk how you can’t realize this if you have ever tried to take or defend a keep . . .

Just an aside lets just make it that siege actually has to be placed and touch actual towers and garrison etc stop this stupid tapping and blocking wp’s they have to commit to siege before wp gets blocked . will make thief and other tappers have to find a new job.

There is more stuff in WvW than just holding a structure. Its about the amount of people you use for it. Use too many → less outcome in PPT since they could be capping somewhere. Also, you get nice PPK. Waypoints vanish when capping a keep. So theres a delay onto defending other structures around. Many structures get defended because you can farm the attackers. This works when the PPK by killing attackers is bigger than the lost PPT by your own keep. Its also to show dominance.

Logistics. Lets defend something that take double to the distance to run and triple the distance to retake camps for supply. OR you can just defend your corner which is easier to run to and has camps that are easier to defend. Even if both equals are equally matched one side would have to run longer after each death making it harder to defend. You only see garrison taken during a servers low coverage time never during their primetime. Also, their the thing with upgraded bases being worth more point per tick.

Jedex.4261:

So my friend came up with a cool idea for wvw this is it.

So the main reason I think people are stupid in WvW is they think you must absolute protect your EBG corner and your BL
That’s so stupid because if a server takes our Garrison and we take their Garrison, is that an even trade? yes it is. Then why in the F do people have such a hard on about protecting our own Garrison if we own another BL’s entire map? If Garrison or EBG was to matter there needs to be a penalty in losing it: You get a reduction in your progress in your PPT If it was at 2100., losing it brings you back to 2000. At this point, holding onto those objectives make more sense. But also, taking it from the enemy servers makes it desirable because you know it would cost them

Linking.

It needs to go.

See my post…

Gop.8713:

BL keeps are a little different and there you do have a point. Hills is pretty much just as easy to take and defend if you are the server with spawn in se corner as it is if you are the home server, so I’m not sure why ppl don’t respond to calls to defend a tiered keep in enemy bl with the same zeal they do in home bl and it would be better if they did . . .

Cascade effect. Our hills and bay are closer to our garrison. If we lose our hills or bay, we’re more likely to lose garrison, therefore our hills and bay are more important than enemy hills or bay. Of course, this doesn’t mean we shouldn’t defend enemy hills or bay, just that ours are more important if we don’t want to risk garrison.

Basically all the same reason in the end. Distance.

On the borderlands, as others have said, it’s easier to defend and ugprade your own Garrison. If you take the enemy’s, you’ll have it until w/e guild group logs off. If you upgrade your own, militia and in-between crews can hold it pretty well. Since an upgraded Garrison is worth 20 points compared to 8 points for paper, it makes more sense to hold onto your own than spend far more effort holding onto an enemies.

That said, it definitely makes sense to take an enemy’s Garrison. Getting rid of upgrades and waypoints makes a huge difference. However, it isn’t a flat trade-off. You’re betting on your server being able to re-build and re-upgrade faster and, either way, you’re losing 12 PPT compared to the third server that presumably has their Garrison upgraded.

On top of that, morale, side keeps and so forth.

As for side keeps, preventing enemy waypoints makes it much easier to defend your northern triangle. Keep in mind that the northern triangle takes longer to upgrade than the rest of the map (12 hours for north towers on ABL, ~6 hours for Garrison compared to ~2.5 hours for south towers, ~3 hours for Bay and ~3.5 hours for Hills), so losing those upgrades means a large PPT loss over time than other objectives. You can trade them for the enemy northern triangle, but you are then losing to the third server and, again, betting on your team getting more Yaks in over the next 12+ hours.

Of course, a T3 sidekeep on an enemy BL is of comparable importance to a T3 sidekeep on your own—but the one on your own BL is important for defense whereas the one on the enemy BL is important for offense. Naturally, players who bother to defend tend to value the defensive keep over the offensive one.

Wvw is so stupid because the profession balance has been left alone for now 2 years (with some tweaks here and there), because it was simplified, because there’s almost always blobs taking all the stuff, because everybody does too much damage.
Others have already explained why people hold on to their ‘stupid’ sides – it’s because they’re the easiest to defend, because the way is the shortest (minus NC on the DBL). We’re in wvw for the fights – and you get better fights if you can reach the blob that’s attacking your keep/tower in time and if that structure is T3 – so there is a reason why people hold onto it. If you don’t want to do that there’s EotM. Anet tried to make us play like you suggested and failed.