Guild Wars 2

Last week I saw about 25 NightShift [NS] (who are top 3 gvg/fight guilds on NA) get completely demolished by about 50-60 HG. What would happen before the stab changes was that NS would completely steamroll HG due to their superior skill based play, players, builds, commanding, etc. I saw them get one pushed and demolished by HG due to the blow up of CC which is impossible to counter in smaller numbers. What Anet has done is encouraged mindless blob play instead of coordinated strategy amongst players. I found this to be extremely sad and a killer to the game in itself. The GvG scene is all but dead, since now the meta seems to be extreme CC with no frontline, making half the classes NOT EVEN WORTH PLAYING IN THIS GAME ANYMORE. As a result Ns, Syn and i believe Agg have quit the guild wars 2, making this a sad example of what happens when you mess with an already stable system. Losing these experienced guilds and players is a hardstrike on the WvW community. Anet please find it in your hearts to put the game back on track and set the stab changes to the way it was, encourage small man play to actually have a chance to beat superior numbers. Sincerely, all WvW players.

You listed 3 out of dozens of guilds in existance and I bet those numbers are not accurate.

You’d have to be ignorant to think that using stability was somehow skillful pre-patch. It was mindless. Any mediocre guild could get a rotation set up and be permanently immune to hard CC. People obviously got too comfortable and now they’re upset they can’t 11111 in a hyper-sustain melee train.

This change now means guilds will actually have to think about when they use stab and opens up more possibilities for other classes. Spectral wall is now more viable than before. Tornado might have some use again. Hammer stun might actually work now.

You know the saying; adapt or die. The stab changes will filter out the weak guilds and leave behind those who learn to handle the new environment.

Maybe this NS guild players are just average players who did win because they were willing to use lame specs and tactics?

Perhaps we can see the use of Guilds working together? Maybe? You do not have to 1v1 GvG. Get another mob to come in after engagement from behind/side. Take advantage of people. The WvW scene is huge, use those numbers.

Go go gadget pirate ship meta.
Rip frontline.
Cue Taps

Alex Caputo.7863:

making this a sad example of what happens when you mess with an already stable system.

I think you accidentally typed an extra “b” in “stale”.

Wonder which of the “stale” systems will be more enjoyable. This new one so far looks pretty boring…

GvG is about unbalanced fights? All this time I thought each team field same number of players.

Gaab.4257:

Wonder which of the “stale” systems will be more enjoyable. This new one so far looks pretty boring…

Yes I dusted of my necro for the pirate ship meta and its very boring. After less than an hour I am wondering wtf I am doing. Its so boring to spam AOEs from max range.

This new meta will definitely drive away players, at least in EU where melee was big part of the meta.

Alex Caputo.7863:

Sincerely, all WvW players.

Actually not every wvw player agrees with you. So do us all a favor and speak for yourself from now on.. ty

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Stab-issue-really-a-L2P-issue/first#post4895886

briggah.7910:

Alex Caputo.7863:

Sincerely, all WvW players.

Actually not every wvw player agrees with you. So do us all a favor and speak for yourself from now on.. ty

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Stab-issue-really-a-L2P-issue/first#post4895886

Nah bro, he’s talking about real WvW players. You, me and all the filthy casuals who don’t enjoy pressing the stab-run-through-every-possible-cc-in-the-game button and mashing AA to win in open zerg fights are not real WvW players.

Deli.1302:

You’d have to be ignorant to think that using stability was somehow skillful pre-patch. It was mindless. Any mediocre guild could get a rotation set up and be permanently immune to hard CC. People obviously got too comfortable and now they’re upset they can’t 11111 in a hyper-sustain melee train.

Not true at all mate. Stability was never as powerful as many think. There are many ways how to control enemy who has stability most notably via condition control (immob chill etc)… stability was never mindless or permanent – at least not after the boon duration nerf ages ago where the guards were no longer able to get over 75% boon duration resulting in ridiculously long stabilities…

Not anymore – not for a long time now…

Stab was actually rather weak and only allowed you to push for a limited amount of time. Every guild I know utilized 2 Guardians per party which means that they could have provided 12 seconds of stability every 24 seconds… maybe a bit more with F3 traited… but that’s it. There were always huge gaps where there was no stability and where CC reigned supreme… You just had to wait for the stability to run out and CC enemy when they still got their stabs on cd…

Additionally, there were always boon removal things – necro with focus and corrupt boon could have had ripped 8 boons from anybody in a second or two… recent stab changes ruined melee setups for certain classes and gave an upper hand to range pressure.

Alex Caputo.7863:

Last week I saw about 25 NightShift [NS] (who are top 3 gvg/fight guilds on NA) get completely demolished by about 50-60 HG.

Please don’t exaggerate. HG is lucky to get 30 members on at any given time.

That being said, I essentially agree with your main point. It is almost impossible for frontliners to maintain stab vs a large blob. Before the stab change I had 3, 8 second stab sources. Now it feels like I am without stab about 5 seconds into a fight. Playing a hammer warrior is really frustrating now.

Maybe anet thinks this will encourage migration to lower-pop servers. The hammer train won’t work against big blobs with 20 necros, but it should still work against 15-20 man groups with traditional builds.

Alex Caputo.7863:

What Anet has done is encouraged mindless blob play instead of coordinated strategy amongst players. I found this to be extremely sad and a killer to the game in itself. The GvG scene is all but dead, since now the meta seems to be extreme CC with no frontline, making half the classes NOT EVEN WORTH PLAYING IN THIS GAME ANYMORE. As a result Ns, Syn and i believe Agg have quit the guild wars 2, making this a sad example of what happens when you mess with an already stable system. Losing these experienced guilds and players is a hardstrike on the WvW community.

Same in EU (at least around prime time – that’s when I play), guilds disbanding all over the place or going casual, just doing open raid now and then… blobbing is even more ridiculous than before – its impossible to find honorable opponent these days…

Alex Caputo.7863:

superior skill based play, players, builds, commanding, etc.

chuckles

(No not that Chuckles).

Stab changes are good.

I do not get it what is it about ppl who think they should get a free ride walking though ability and effects of other players just becuse they have ONE boon out of 9? If you walk though something it should have some effect on you unless your invaluable because they do not last long and have very long cd. I guess if you just want to be invaluable to something all the time why not just ask for them to remove say hard cc from the game. How about we remove soft cc and let every one move as max speed all the time with no ways to tie them down then no one could ever land real dmg. Because hard cc even soft cc dose not kill ppl DMG dose.

Welcome to Range Wars. Melee has been marginalized by these stab changes, which imo were unnecessary. The changes have encouraged blobbing even more than before, and that seems opposite of what they wanted them to do. Unless their goal was to make WvW exclusively for the complete casual it was a bad change.

And honestly for those who have no idea who NS, Agg, or Syn is….have you been hiding under a rock? I get you’re EU, but Agg and NS completely destroyed TA during their NA tour, TA which was the poster child guild for all of EU in 2014. They are the epitome of skill groups in the WvW gamemode, and losing them makes the game worse.

Kaiser.9873:

And honestly for those who have no idea who NS, Agg, or Syn is….have you been hiding under a rock?

Not hiding under a rock.. More like don’t care about what group of 15-20 players can spam skills on another group of 15-20 players..

Kaiser.9873:

Welcome to Range Wars. Melee has been marginalized by these stab changes, which imo were unnecessary. The changes have encouraged blobbing even more than before, and that seems opposite of what they wanted them to do. Unless their goal was to make WvW exclusively for the complete casual it was a bad change.

And honestly for those who have no idea who NS, Agg, or Syn is….have you been hiding under a rock? I get you’re EU, but Agg and NS completely destroyed TA during their NA tour, TA which was the poster child guild for all of EU in 2014. They are the epitome of skill groups in the WvW gamemode, and losing them makes the game worse.

Broken and OP effects are still Broken and OP even if they are used by good players. Its like saying “well its fun to watch this person win and play so its ok if they cheat.” What makes these guild good or any guild is there ability to deal with new things. Lets see how they theory craft under the new system. Then you can “follow the leader” and use there meta builds hehe.

agree 100% with OP

I don’t understand, if the stab changes prevent groups from just charging in, a properly set-up choke allows a much smaller group to hold a larger group at bay, or wipe them if they push in. Isn’t this what people wanted? Maybe you can’t just yolo in and wipe them now, but you can completely halt a larger group and kill them when they go full yolo through a choke. This allows you to either send a group to flank them or go capture objectives while the small party holds the choke.

I think people need to consider more tactics to fighting then one single ball following a single player, making dropping all the cc’s in one spot too easy. Ground-target cc’s and aoes are easy to place in front of one single formation. However, split into a couple smaller groups to flank, or push as a spread out line rather than a blob makes it much harder to bunch up the cc’s ontop of each-other and burn through all your stab stacks. Perhaps people should consider some movement skills, like judge’s/merciful intervention to just bypass the entire no-man’s land.

Get creative and try some alternative strategies. Pirate ship isn’t necessarily optimal.

Also, stab changes do almost NOTHING for gvg’s on the 15v15 and below scale. The only thing it may do is make something like engie more valuable who can slick-shoes and start wrecking the other team.

Alex Caputo.7863:

Last week I saw about 25 NightShift [NS] (who are top 3 gvg/fight guilds on NA) get completely demolished by about 50-60 HG. What would happen before the stab changes was that NS would completely steamroll HG due to their superior skill based play, players, builds, commanding, etc. I saw them get one pushed and demolished by HG due to the blow up of CC which is impossible to counter in smaller numbers. What Anet has done is encouraged mindless blob play instead of coordinated strategy amongst players. I found this to be extremely sad and a killer to the game in itself. The GvG scene is all but dead, since now the meta seems to be extreme CC with no frontline, making half the classes NOT EVEN WORTH PLAYING IN THIS GAME ANYMORE. As a result Ns, Syn and i believe Agg have quit the guild wars 2, making this a sad example of what happens when you mess with an already stable system. Losing these experienced guilds and players is a hardstrike on the WvW community. Anet please find it in your hearts to put the game back on track and set the stab changes to the way it was, encourage small man play to actually have a chance to beat superior numbers. Sincerely, all WvW players.

HG never fields that many and Johny never tags up anymore so highly doubt counting pugs they numbered more then 35. I’m sorry NS can’t adept to this terrible stability change and the meta it has created, maybe they were never really that good to begin with. I have been vocal about the fact i hate the stability change and think it was a bad idea, but that hasn’t stopped me and my guild from adapting to it.
Its not the melee deep GWEN of old. It is much harder to sustain engagements and easier to punish sloppy play and sloppy commanders. While the “glory” of face rushing blobs with melee trains is over, the era of great fights is not. This change will drive some long time WvW player away from the game. they will refuse to change thier old mind set and quit. In the end like in Nature its adapt or die.

Not that I am an expert but I feel this change (and the examples given for the new BL map) show a push from the devs to split the huge zergs/blobs to smaller entities to multiply the battle front.
If you look at CC, the ones laid by ranged characters are in majority really visible and then avoidable (if you compare to the ones of melee characters). The thing is when 30 to 50 people lay their fields in the same time they somehow deny some space for everyone as no enemy can enter but if they get out of this field the are vulnerable.

I hope that in the next weeks, the zergs will split in several balanced groups so that the range blobs won’t be able to be on every front… so they will also split in smaller groups (10 to 15) and then CC will be more precious and will have to be used in a smart way.

I’m no dev but I feel it is what they want to promote.

This change only encourages bigger blobs.

I dont see why people should be forced, almost 3 years after release, to adapt to a playstyle they do not enjoy. I can totally understand anyone who quits playing WvW because of this.

Bigger blobs and more boring fights.

Only ones cheering this on are the classes who had no place in the old meta.

Joey.2769:

This change only encourages bigger blobs.

It took more ppl to remove stab under the old system then it dose now due to boon removal being the only counter to stab and how boon removing would work needing to eat though all other boons before so max boon removing to eat boons from ppl to get at stab. If any thing it helps smaller groups remove stab from a person.

Jski.6180:

Joey.2769:

This change only encourages bigger blobs.

It took more ppl to remove stab under the old system then it dose now due to boon removal being the only counter to stab and how boon removing would work needing to eat though all other boons before so max boon removing to eat boons from ppl to get at stab. If any thing it helps smaller groups remove stab from a person.

I don’t have the time nor do I care to explain it to you. You’re on FA talk to a good fight guild and they can explain.

Malediktus.3740:

I dont see why people should be forced, almost 3 years after release, to adapt to a playstyle they do not enjoy. I can totally understand anyone who quits playing WvW because of this.

But you were fine with 4 classes making up the vast majority of compositions in every large group from 20 players up, you were fine with the “balance” that there were usually more guardians in everything from a 20 man GvG group to a zone blob, than there were engies, rangers, thieves & mesmers put together.

How about the times in team/map chat when someone asks what is a good build for ranger or engy, and all they get back are replies like “reroll”,“alt-f4”, etc, did you simply laugh at the engy / ranger or did you actually make posts on this forum decrying the balance in WvW and that these classes needed help?

The lack of objectivity and level of hypocrisy in these threads is hilarious.

Joey.2769:

Jski.6180:

Joey.2769:

This change only encourages bigger blobs.

It took more ppl to remove stab under the old system then it dose now due to boon removal being the only counter to stab and how boon removing would work needing to eat though all other boons before so max boon removing to eat boons from ppl to get at stab. If any thing it helps smaller groups remove stab from a person.

I don’t have the time nor do I care to explain it to you. You’re on FA talk to a good fight guild and they can explain.

Its simple logic if one thing counter the old stab and you need to eat though other effect to get to that stab you need MORE of one type of effect to be able to removing things fast enofe from an aoe cap of 5 ppl per boon strip. This means that having more boons and gurds over all number would allow you to get by these boon strips more effectively AND having more ppl to eat the 5 person aoe cap all leads to being better to be in a blob then in a smaller group.

Now that you have more effect that removing stab you need less ppl AND less of one effect you need less speed to removing the effect. There go you need less ppl to removing stab now. Having 5 gurd in a pt dose not changes the cap of 5 that there stab will hit and dose not changes lines aoe caps being endless. Its the endless aoe cap that brakes zerg and blob. That is why the new stab helps brakes up zergs more so then the old stab.

zinkz.7045:

Malediktus.3740:

I dont see why people should be forced, almost 3 years after release, to adapt to a playstyle they do not enjoy. I can totally understand anyone who quits playing WvW because of this.

But you were fine with 4 classes making up the vast majority of compositions in every large group from 20 players up, you were fine with the “balance” that there were usually more guardians in everything from a 20 man GvG group to a zone blob, than there were engies, rangers, thieves & mesmers put together.

How about the times in team/map chat when someone asks what is a good build for ranger or engy, and all they get back are replies like “reroll”,“alt-f4”, etc, did you simply laugh at the engy / ranger or did you actually make posts on this forum decrying the balance in WvW and that these classes needed help?

The lack of objectivity and level of hypocrisy in these threads is hilarious.

I still laugh at ranger and engi. Necro is vastly superior in both old and new meta.

Jski.6180:

Its simple logic if one thing counter the old stab and you need to eat though other effect to get to that stab you need MORE of one type of effect to be able to removing things fast enofe from an aoe cap of 5 ppl per boon strip. This means that having more boons and gurds over all number would allow you to get by these boon strips more effectively AND having more ppl to eat the 5 person aoe cap all leads to being better to be in a blob then in a smaller group.

Now that you have more effect that removing stab you need less ppl AND less of one effect you need less speed to removing the effect. There go you need less ppl to removing stab now. Having 5 gurd in a pt dose not changes the cap of 5 that there stab will hit and dose not changes lines aoe caps being endless. Its the endless aoe cap that brakes zerg and blob. That is why the new stab helps brakes up zergs more so then the old stab.

To put it simply: You’re not wrong but what you’re talking about has no relevance.

There was never a problem for smaller groups to take on larger groups. This is because with Stability in it’s old form, stacking duration, it gave smaller groups mobility. Mobility meant they could avoid spike damage (Wells) and soft CCs (chills, cripples) and setup their own spike damage. They didn’t need to remove stability from an equal sized or larger group to do this as stripping stability with boons, being that it’s the last boon to be removed, is near impossible without some massive strip like Corrupt Boon (single target) so most people didn’t try.

So your argument that it allows smaller groups to remove stability from larger groups is irrelevant since it was never needed or desired.

NOW…on the reverse side blobs, or massive groups, have an extreme advantage with the changes because where it was impossible for them to really strip stability off before (again, boons being stacked up and Stability last to go) their larger number of players leads to a larger amount of CC which will easily strip Stability off. Simply % wise a larger blob will always have more CC than a smaller group. This CC, when coordinated, can be dropped on player’s heads so there’s simply no avoiding them thus stripping Stability incredibly fast. So now now only does the smaller group have to content with the large amount of soft CC, but they also have vastly higher hard CCs that will eventually catch and separate them leaving them vulnerable to spike damage and they die very fast.

This is why blobs are encouraged by this change. More numbers = more CCs and the more CCs you got the less reliable enemy Stability will be. The less reliable enemy Stability is the more likely hood they will get caught in a CC and killed with spike damage.

+1

The stab change has a smaller impact on GvGs but it has had a huge impact on raiding / zerg busting. My guild has always been on the smaller side ( running 15-18 a night ) and under the old stab system we could take out guilds / pug blobs twice sometimes 3 times our size, depending on the terrain or how we engaged etc.

Now it’s near impossible because bigger groups just blob us down. Smaller engagements are much more manageable but zerg busting, what we found the most entertaining aspect of wvw, is depressing. Yes, changing certain strategies / comps, swapping to full cancer ranged meta, makes it more manageable but my fun and I think I speak for alot of melee out there, came from having a really aggressive melee. Big melee pushes into blobs and coming out alive if my 7 other melee were all on point.

Yes stab was a really strong boon but it had maybe a 70% uptime. Soft CC ( chill, immob, cripples etc ) and ranged pressure made melee fights/pushes dynamic. Melee were immune to hard CCs for small burst of time but were constantly susceptible to everything listed above. You could have 10 years of stab but one missed dodge out of a bomb and you’re dead. One good chill field or immob spike from an enemy melee, or caster boon rip and you’re dead. So melee could vary their playstyle and get different results depending on how they pushed. Now melee are forced to be passive because stab is gone 5 seconds into a push. Idk about other melee but that is boring to me.

I’m slowly adapting my driving style to this new stab but it disappointing to see an entire playstyle deleted.

Kodiak.3281:

To put it simply: You’re not wrong but what you’re talking about has no relevance.

There was never a problem for smaller groups to take on larger groups. This is because with Stability in it’s old form, stacking duration, it gave smaller groups mobility. Mobility meant they could avoid spike damage (Wells) and soft CCs (chills, cripples) and setup their own spike damage. They didn’t need to remove stability from an equal sized or larger group to do this as stripping stability with boons, being that it’s the last boon to be removed, is near impossible without some massive strip like Corrupt Boon (single target) so most people didn’t try.

So your argument that it allows smaller groups to remove stability from larger groups is irrelevant since it was never needed or desired.

NOW…on the reverse side blobs, or massive groups, have an extreme advantage with the changes because where it was impossible for them to really strip stability off before (again, boons being stacked up and Stability last to go) their larger number of players leads to a larger amount of CC which will easily strip Stability off. Simply % wise a larger blob will always have more CC than a smaller group. This CC, when coordinated, can be dropped on player’s heads so there’s simply no avoiding them thus stripping Stability incredibly fast. So now now only does the smaller group have to content with the large amount of soft CC, but they also have vastly higher hard CCs that will eventually catch and separate them leaving them vulnerable to spike damage and they die very fast.

This is why blobs are encouraged by this change. More numbers = more CCs and the more CCs you got the less reliable enemy Stability will be. The less reliable enemy Stability is the more likely hood they will get caught in a CC and killed with spike damage.

Ok point for point.

There was always a problem with a small group taking on a bigger group becuse of the 5 person aoe cap and the endless cap of rallying and the ability for bigger group to simply rez in combat. Yes smaller groups would kill ppl in the bigger group but they would never “win.” Wells are on the 5 target rule on-top of needed to strip all boons before stab on-top of a 1 sec cd per boon.

My argument is saying a small group can stop a zerg that out numbers them the 5 aoe dmg rule dose not mean that small group can win it just makes the bigger group NEED to have to deal with a group now that can hold them off if needed.

That the thing about the hard cc in GW2 a lot of it mainly the ones that we are talking about needs to be ran into to take effect. Most of the burst hard cc is melee ranges or simply hits one person. Having more cc dose not mean the bigger groups are better at stopping the smaller groups. It just means the smaller group cant run though the main group as well.

No aoe cap is a counter to blobs on any level of imagination. It dose not mean smaller groups will ever comply kill a blob you could not before the stab update and you still cant becuse of dmg aoe caps. This IS RvR not pvp at the end of the day if you simply stop a big group with a small group you are wining RvR. Stop trying to act like its a game type that is what works best for your argument.

Jski is clearly a PvX zerg humper who enjoys spamming skills in his blob there really is no reasoning with him. Let him pew pew from afar and be content…./sigh

Jski,

Have you ever heard the term drop the bomb on my feet now? Or full bomb?

It’s usually a direct counter to a push. Try avoiding the red circles and hard CC’s that just appear.

It’s not all … you have to run into it to make it count. Yeah … you are right you do have to run into it. When you are playing ranged versus ranged. And most can easily avoid that. Avoid the one dropped on your head. Wait, no you can’t because you play ranged and must not know what that is. If you push no matter what the size of your team and the other team … you will get a bomb dropped. On. Your. Head. 5v5 10v10 15v15 60v60 …. does not matter. Its now a silly game of baiting CC’s and waiting for the enemy to push while dropping your circles on the ground and avoiding the enemy circles. Cautious, slow, boring.

I like the stab changes, but since guardian is still the only class that can give it reliably, I think this change is negative. In an anti trinity system, all classes need equal footing to support and damage.

How is it every one here is complaining about new stability changes while my guild goes out every night and continues to wipe bigger numbers. If anything the new stability changes are welcomed and make things more fun, and frankly people don’t know how to adapt. Everyone wants to press stability and walk through a melee bomb without a scratch. Hit the sides, go in go out, don’t expect to get away with your kittenty style of play anymore because you WILL get punished for it.

Kodiak.3281:

To put it simply: You’re not wrong but what you’re talking about has no relevance.

There was never a problem for smaller groups to take on larger groups. This is because with Stability in it’s old form, stacking duration, it gave smaller groups mobility. Mobility meant they could avoid spike damage (Wells) and soft CCs (chills, cripples) and setup their own spike damage. They didn’t need to remove stability from an equal sized or larger group to do this as stripping stability with boons, being that it’s the last boon to be removed, is near impossible without some massive strip like Corrupt Boon (single target) so most people didn’t try.

So your argument that it allows smaller groups to remove stability from larger groups is irrelevant since it was never needed or desired.

NOW…on the reverse side blobs, or massive groups, have an extreme advantage with the changes because where it was impossible for them to really strip stability off before (again, boons being stacked up and Stability last to go) their larger number of players leads to a larger amount of CC which will easily strip Stability off. Simply % wise a larger blob will always have more CC than a smaller group. This CC, when coordinated, can be dropped on player’s heads so there’s simply no avoiding them thus stripping Stability incredibly fast. So now now only does the smaller group have to content with the large amount of soft CC, but they also have vastly higher hard CCs that will eventually catch and separate them leaving them vulnerable to spike damage and they die very fast.

This is why blobs are encouraged by this change. More numbers = more CCs and the more CCs you got the less reliable enemy Stability will be. The less reliable enemy Stability is the more likely hood they will get caught in a CC and killed with spike damage.

This. It’s significantly easier for a blob to stunlock smaller guild groups now. Losing blobs vs guild groups play will be a loss of a big part of WvW and will lead to lots of skilled groups quitting.

Enemies still drop bombs when you hit the sides. On. Your. Head. Go in and out is exactly what this is. The change just leads to more downtime as melee. Or more … out. Also leads to more players playing ranged, and more ele/necros on the field dropping hard and soft CC. Both while in (on your head, even if you hit them from the flank) and out (regrouping and CD’s).

Sorel.4870:

Nah bro, he’s talking about real WvW players. You, me and all the filthy casuals who don’t enjoy pressing the stab-run-through-every-possible-cc-in-the-game button and mashing AA to win in open zerg fights are not real WvW players.

It’s statements like that tip your hand that you don’t have any experience playing in an organized raid group.

TBH, I don’t understand why you are posting so frequently in these stab change threads. Essentially, you’ve ‘won’ (?) as Anet hasn’t decimated your play style – whatever that maybe. There is a diffence between an zergbusting/gvg/raid guild and map blobbing, and that difference is the level of coordination and skill that a raid group has. Its this component that let’s these groups take on and take down bigger numbers, which provides a challenge and is fun for these types of players. To flip your sarcastic point: if it’s really just comes down to hit the ‘I win stability button’, charge straight in and auto-attack, then why are raid groups able to take down blobs with superior numbers?

I agree with you that people should not speak for others; fair point. In the case of our guild we’re looking into other gaming options. Its disappointing for us that not only has Anet largely ignored the WvW population by comparison to PvE and PvP, this stab change has crushed the game play that we’ve (our guild) all enjoyed. Enjoyed enough so to keep us logging in for the past two years several times per week to raid. Whether you feel that stab is an ‘I win’ or not, surely you can at least empathize that players have put loads and loads of time and gold into gear, build tweaking, recording and critiquing internal gameplay, and training for this specific game play.

This really is the most detrimental patch to the WvW raiding community and really it stems from the design philosophy to not separate the mechanics between game modes. I want to give a genuine nod to the balance team as they’ve nailed the stab changes in PvP as they feel and play very similar to the old stab system. However, elsewhere in the game Anet has straight up sent the message that: we would rather have the flexibility to design encounters like the Wyrven in the demo flapping its wings and stripping stab off everyone with each pulse/flap even if that comes at the expense of the competitive raiding WvW community. This sentiment sounds like it suits your play, but as our guild is in the latter group we have found ourselves tossed to the curb.

Frost

First, the NS you are seeing now is completely different then the NS that had one of the longest win streaks within the GVG meta. Ask pretty much anyone in NS and they will let you know, though they are disbanded now till the expansion. Secondly the change to stability is farely easy to counter, so easy that all it takes is a third guard in your melee parties and bit of tweaking of a few traits or honestly, the same standard AH 0/0/6/4/4 Guardian setup would work as well. Your stab rotations have to be a bit tighter and you have to be more aware of your positioning. Its l2play without the stab crutch kiddos.

Frost if you find a RvR game that allows for the same fights as we enjoyed before please PM me.

I’ m happy that this stability changes has screwed the GvG fights.
Now start being useful for your server and play for your server instead of doing mindless gvg

Gravy.7589:

Secondly the change to stability is farely easy to counter, so easy that all it takes is a third guard in your melee parties and bit of tweaking of a few traits … Its l2play without the stab crutch kiddos.

Okay … so now we have to build in 3 guards per party. Something seems right about that?

Is it fun to fight for 2-3 seconds, run back wait 15 seconds, run into the fray and fight for 2-3 seconds? Meanwhile ranged casters just press 5 to win?

People sometimes say stab is a l2p issue … while it must take an incredible amount of skill to drop CC after CC after CC staying safely in the background.

Darkness.9732:

I’ m happy that this stability changes has screwed the GvG fights.
Now start being useful for your server and play for your server instead of doing mindless gvg

What do you accomplish/gain by getting “mindless” PPT ?

Also, its clear anet has the same view as you however, unfortunately you dont seem to realise fights guilds will quit if they are in a position where they can do nothing but PPT rather than become fellow zombies.

Gravy.7589:

First, the NS you are seeing now is completely different then the NS that had one of the longest win streaks within the GVG meta. Ask pretty much anyone in NS and they will let you know, though they are disbanded now till the expansion. Secondly the change to stability is farely easy to counter, so easy that all it takes is a third guard in your melee parties and bit of tweaking of a few traits or honestly, the same standard AH 0/0/6/4/4 Guardian setup would work as well. Your stab rotations have to be a bit tighter and you have to be more aware of your positioning. Its l2play without the stab crutch kiddos.

It’s not a simple change of adding a third guard to the melee. Assuming that you are keeping the same raiding numbers what would you give up in exchange for the third guardian slot? If you are dumping necros you are forgoing your dps to give your melee more sustain. This isn’t a feasible solution in the current state of the game as its the melee’s role to control the fight not necessarily be generating the down states. In open field versus larger groups its also not an option as the ranged play and turtling to wait for a push has been taken to the extreme. This big ranged bomb meta that evolved prior to the patch is similar to what’s found in PVE content: in dungeons and fractals bosses and mobs hit so kittenly hard that the best option is to nuke them down faster so they get less chances to attack. i.e build for burst/spike damage instead of trying to build for sustain which only prolongs the fight further. In WvW, raid groups push as much possible damage as they can which outpaces even the tankiest of stats. The second component is players don’t have to tank up for damage they aren’t standing in – this lead to the kiting of groups through your damage and then applying your push pressure when they are trying to pullback to regroup. This kiting in the gvg scene has be come so extreme that it now is largely up to your gank crew to generate a downstate or opportunity for your group to play off of.

Frost

This is thread is full of people crying about the changes in stab when it could be used as a means to create a discussion about how to counter the change. Which guilds have done btw. BMO, FUN, PS, DUI, IX, BAE and many other guilds have delt or are dealing with the changes and have had success so maybe ask why your guild hasn’t rather than complaining the game is broke. Lol

Gravy.7589:

This is thread is full of people crying about the changes in stab when it could be used as a means to create a discussion about how to counter the change. Which guilds have done btw. BMO, FUN, PS, DUI, IX, BAE and many other guilds have delt or are dealing with the changes and have had success so maybe ask why your guild hasn’t rather than complaining the game is broke. Lol

The discussion over how to counter the change and the discussion over whether the change is a good idea from a balance/gameplay perspective are two different discussions. You can come up with ways to adapt to the change and still think it’s a bad idea.