Guild Wars 2

Justine.6351:

OriOri.8724:

RodOfDeath.5247:

I fought a condi warrior the other night, longbow mace/shield. Fight lasted like 4 hours because of the bunkering and extreme crutch their build tree offers.

Real men play death shroud necro.

But everyone knows that Necro is the hardest thing to kill, easiest class to play, and most faceroll because you get a second life bar! (/s)

Necro isn’t the easiest kill, its the most reliable kill.

I’m just happy to derail the topic from warrior finally

Kinda boring thread.

apharma.3741:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Justine.6351:

OriOri.8724:

RodOfDeath.5247:

I fought a condi warrior the other night, longbow mace/shield. Fight lasted like 4 hours because of the bunkering and extreme crutch their build tree offers.

Real men play death shroud necro.

But everyone knows that Necro is the hardest thing to kill, easiest class to play, and most faceroll because you get a second life bar! (/s)

Necro isn’t the easiest kill, its the most reliable kill.

Necromancer is a lot like Warrior. It’s skill ceiling escalates exponentially the better your opponent is.

It’s easy to pick it up and go but against people who know what they’re doing, it becomes a lot more difficult and requires a lot more baiting due to cast times and tells.

I had a literal 10 minute long 2v1 just yesterday, that I really wish I recorded, that I ended up quitting and walking away from because the 2 couldn’t kill me and I couldn’t kill them ( bunker support Guardian cleansing and buffing a glassy Berserker ). The Warrior kept feeding my Life Force attacking me when I had Spectrals up and the Guardian kept reviving the Warrior every time I got him down.

Kind of unrelated but I just wanted to state that if you can manage your Life Force properly and you’re not completely overwhelmed with players (not getting zerged to death), Necro can be amazingly hard to kill. It’s all about proper usage of Shroud and Life Force management but you very rarely find people who do it properly.

You forgot the having shroud when going into fights aspect, or rather when a gank duo jumps you just outside spawn. I see so many necros dying because they haven’t had chance to build any LF before someone engages on them.

Very true, yes. I will literally not go near an enemy player if I’m at 0% Life Force and I feel naked, like I have no weapons equipped, without it, lol.

I often drop my Shroud to 20 or 30% for duels but otherwise, when roaming about or zerging, I won’t go in to any fights without killing some ambients or building Life Force somewhere first. People who don’t play Necro, or don’t play it often, don’t realize how much of a disadvantage you’re at without it.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Very true, yes. I will literally not go near an enemy player if I’m at 0% Life Force and I feel naked, like I have no weapons equipped, without it, lol.

I often drop my Shroud to 20 or 30% for duels but otherwise, when roaming about or zerging, I won’t go in to any fights without killing some ambients or building Life Force somewhere first. People who don’t play Necro, or don’t play it often, don’t realize how much of a disadvantage you’re at without it.

I think people do realize it, they just don’t care because it makes those necros an easy kill, and hence an easy way to pretend like they (the person killing the necro) are a better player because of how easy a kill it was.

Kovu.7560:

Lol @ people who die to ranger pets.
Seriously, sidestep the pet. You don’t even need to dodge.

~ Kovu

Kovu, It’s hard to sidestep smoke assault, which can do well over 10k damage in a short amount of time, even if the ranger himself doesn’t have a lick of power. And if you are a melee profession, the projectiles of bristleback’s F2 aren’t something you can sidestep – and can also do well over 10k damage in a very short timeframe, again, without the ranger having any power.

Pets need to scale to Ranger stats. So if the ranger is condi, they should choose a condi style pet (vamp up some pets to fill this role), rather than being in full dire/trailblazers, then have a bristleback/smokescale doing insane berserker-stat style bursting as well.

Maybe add healing pets that would scale off of healing power for a support role.

Arena Net’s lack of care for WvW

Turk.5460:

Kovu.7560:

Lol @ people who die to ranger pets.
Seriously, sidestep the pet. You don’t even need to dodge.

~ Kovu

Kovu, It’s hard to sidestep smoke assault, which can do well over 10k damage in a short amount of time, even if the ranger himself doesn’t have a lick of power. And if you are a melee profession, the projectiles of bristleback’s F2 aren’t something you can sidestep – and can also do well over 10k damage in a very short timeframe, again, without the ranger having any power.

Pets need to scale to Ranger stats. So if the ranger is condi, they should choose a condi style pet (vamp up some pets to fill this role), rather than being in full dire/trailblazers, then have a bristleback/smokescale doing insane berserker-stat style bursting as well.

Maybe add healing pets that would scale off of healing power for a support role.

Excluding when Smokescale’s Smoke Assault was bugged, I have never seen it do more than 7k on a player.

Bristleback is the one that you need to watch out for, and it can be reflected. With enough Might, it’s F2 can do some nasty damage but much like Rapid Fire, it’s a channelled attack and they’re projectiles.

Both of these pets can potentially hit hard, yes, but 10k is a bit of an excessive exaggeration. Smokescale isn’t even a DPS pet if you look at it’s stats, it doesn’t have strong offensive stats, it’s just hands down, the best pet at sticking to it’s target.

Just like you do with Mesmer Phantasms, you should always be paying attention to the pet during a fight as much as you are paying attention to the Ranger. As far as I’m concerned, most people hate Ranger pets because they can’t just ignore them anymore. They’re a threat now and that bothers people, but they’re still perfectly balanced. Unless you want to go back to those 32 hours where Smokescale could do upwards of 80k damage with Smoke Assault.

I run a 25 might stack power boon rotation build and I’ve never hit another player for 10k with either smokescale or bristleback. Even when the attack(s) actually hit. And yes, you can simply sidestep a bristleback’s f2 along with most other pet attacks. Its super annoying. Smoke assault is an exception, its nice when my pet rotates into that. Can’t control the timing on that for a coordinated burst, though.

~ Kovu

Kovu.7560:

I run a 25 might stack power boon rotation build and I’ve never hit another player for 10k with either smokescale or bristleback. Even when the attack(s) actually hit. And yes, you can simply sidestep a bristleback’s f2 along with most other pet attacks. Its super annoying. Smoke assault is an exception, its nice when my pet rotates into that. Can’t control the timing on that for a coordinated burst, though.

~ Kovu

Actually you sort of can, the smokescale will pretty much use it off cool down which is 20s. Say you switch from bristleback to smokescale it will use smoke assault almost immediately, this means whenever you switch to smokescale usually the first attack it does is smoke assault even if not it does it pretty soon after switching to it.

It’s part of the burst my friend usually does when he’s playing druid, will force out cool downs with bristleback and then swap to smokescale for the smoke assault as it never misses unlike spike barrage.

apharma.3741:

Kovu.7560:

I run a 25 might stack power boon rotation build and I’ve never hit another player for 10k with either smokescale or bristleback. Even when the attack(s) actually hit. And yes, you can simply sidestep a bristleback’s f2 along with most other pet attacks. Its super annoying. Smoke assault is an exception, its nice when my pet rotates into that. Can’t control the timing on that for a coordinated burst, though.

~ Kovu

Actually you sort of can, the smokescale will pretty much use it off cool down which is 20s. Say you switch from bristleback to smokescale it will use smoke assault almost immediately, this means whenever you switch to smokescale usually the first attack it does is smoke assault even if not it does it pretty soon after switching to it.

It’s part of the burst my friend usually does when he’s playing druid, will force out cool downs with bristleback and then swap to smokescale for the smoke assault as it never misses unlike spike barrage.

Yes, it’s possible to manipulate pet attacks depending on where they aggro. I intentionally keep mine on passive so I can better control their attacks. Sending in canines at a certain range for example it will always start with it’s knockdown attack, same with Smokescale. I usually keep it on passive until my target tries to kite me then send it in at a specific range so that it immediately starts off with Smoke Assault to keep pressure up.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Turk.5460:

Kovu.7560:

Lol @ people who die to ranger pets.
Seriously, sidestep the pet. You don’t even need to dodge.

~ Kovu

Kovu, It’s hard to sidestep smoke assault, which can do well over 10k damage in a short amount of time, even if the ranger himself doesn’t have a lick of power. And if you are a melee profession, the projectiles of bristleback’s F2 aren’t something you can sidestep – and can also do well over 10k damage in a very short timeframe, again, without the ranger having any power.

Pets need to scale to Ranger stats. So if the ranger is condi, they should choose a condi style pet (vamp up some pets to fill this role), rather than being in full dire/trailblazers, then have a bristleback/smokescale doing insane berserker-stat style bursting as well.

Maybe add healing pets that would scale off of healing power for a support role.

Excluding when Smokescale’s Smoke Assault was bugged, I have never seen it do more than 7k on a player.

Bristleback is the one that you need to watch out for, and it can be reflected. With enough Might, it’s F2 can do some nasty damage but much like Rapid Fire, it’s a channelled attack and they’re projectiles.

Both of these pets can potentially hit hard, yes, but 10k is a bit of an excessive exaggeration. Smokescale isn’t even a DPS pet if you look at it’s stats, it doesn’t have strong offensive stats, it’s just hands down, the best pet at sticking to it’s target.

Just like you do with Mesmer Phantasms, you should always be paying attention to the pet during a fight as much as you are paying attention to the Ranger. As far as I’m concerned, most people hate Ranger pets because they can’t just ignore them anymore. They’re a threat now and that bothers people, but they’re still perfectly balanced. Unless you want to go back to those 32 hours where Smokescale could do upwards of 80k damage with Smoke Assault.

Yeah 10k for Smoke Assault was an exaggeration. It generally hits me, a medium armor wearer with no toughness, for 1200-1500 a hit, which is still an absurd amount for a Ranger who puts 0 power into their gear. Spike Barrage, however, I’ll reiterate – as a melee player, who must keep the ranger close, and likely has used dodges, blocks, etc earlier in the fight – it is ridiculous the amount of damage a simple F2 can do.

This would be acceptable if the ranger was in berserker-style gear with moderate crit chance, but is insane that they are able to do so while slotting things like clerics or trailblazer, or anything else that has no power/precision.

Yea ranger pet stats need to be brought down and then they need to scale with the ranger’s own stats.

Gear doesn’t affect the pets but rangers are required to spec into 2 traitlines to get any decent damage out of them.

Smokescale and bristleback have already been nerfed multiple times since their release. Anet can’t keep nerfing them without addressing the rangers own lack of dps, especially since HoT introduced so much projectile hate to the game.

Also if they did decide to nerf them further, that just means the rangers class mechanic becomes nothing but a liability. Rangers can’t stow them in combat which is a huge drawback when fighting professions that can use them to trigger heals or cleanses (dh trap heal, adrenal health, etc.). They also often give away a rangers position of he is trying to stealth and escape a zerg. They can put him in and keep him in combat longer. There’s also tons of traits and skills are tired into the pets which already puts rangers at a disadvantage in any kind of large scale fight (or just against heavy condi players) since the pets die so easily.

I don’t want to just nerf pets, I want their stats to scale with the rangers. That way, for the pet to deal high damage the ranger has to spec for high damage. As it is though, since pets do make up such a large portion of rangers DPS, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the ranger/druid to spec bunkery as hell and still have pets dealing top damage. Just kiting you until you don’t dodge an attack from their pet and take massive damage.

Its just weird to me, I don’t understand why that can happen.

OriOri.8724:

I don’t want to just nerf pets, I want their stats to scale with the rangers. That way, for the pet to deal high damage the ranger has to spec for high damage. As it is though, since pets do make up such a large portion of rangers DPS, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the ranger/druid to spec bunkery as hell and still have pets dealing top damage. Just kiting you until you don’t dodge an attack from their pet and take massive damage.

Its just weird to me, I don’t understand why that can happen.

As I said, they do spec for damage, just not with their gear. The sad fact is rangers can spec for full glass and have their damage shrugged off by most meta builds, especially since their “burst” skills consist of a 2.5 second channeled skill on rapid fire that is easily negated by all the projectile hate , a 3.25 second channel that also immobilizes them on whirling defense, and maul which is mediocre unless you proc several damage modifiers and is also the most telegraphed weapon skill in the game (oh look a big spirit bear….).

For pets to have their damage reduced anet would need to redesign rangers. Something along the lines of making them spirit companions that no longer have an auto attack but also no longer take damage. The different pet types could offer unique buffs and have a utility skill tied to the pet type and another utility tied to the individual pet.

Of course if they do this they will have to revisit the way rangers attacks scale with power and give the rangers access to unblockable attacks instead of just tacking it onto the pets.

dh – combo of defense, cc, and sustain
war – pulsing stab in berserk, range of headbutt and arc divider
rev – pewpew ham
rang – druidic clarity+celestial shadow+ancient seeds really stronk, some pets hitting really hard
eng – tons of defense and constant pressure
teef – unhindered combatant, impacting disruption stacking
ele – combo of all sustain traits make them really hard to kill
nec – so many corrupts
mes – torment on shatter, pve confusion

some of these I don’t consider op by themselves, but I felt it would be a good idea to give a complete list.

Turk.5460:

Yeah 10k for Smoke Assault was an exaggeration. It generally hits me, a medium armor wearer with no toughness, for 1200-1500 a hit, which is still an absurd amount for a Ranger who puts 0 power into their gear. Spike Barrage, however, I’ll reiterate – as a melee player, who must keep the ranger close, and likely has used dodges, blocks, etc earlier in the fight – it is ridiculous the amount of damage a simple F2 can do.

This would be acceptable if the ranger was in berserker-style gear with moderate crit chance, but is insane that they are able to do so while slotting things like clerics or trailblazer, or anything else that has no power/precision.

If a ranger manages to stack 25 stacks of might, trait for & then proc Remorseless while running beastmastery, proc’ing the active on SotW AND utilizing quickness so that the spike barrage can’t simply be sidestepped — AND if the opposing player has used up their evade & block frames and aren’t paying attention to the pet — they deserve to be insta kitten. Not that that the stars align frequently enough for it to be overpowered, its just memorable when it does happen.

That said, many rangers that roam would only have their pet damage be improved if it was actually based off the ranger’s power, precision and ferocity. Even on a somewhat bunkery build (many roaming rangers usually use at least 2/3 of Guard, Protect Me and SoS) for actual ranger weapon attacks to do anything noticeable to the heavy armored professions they need to run at minimum 2,300 power, 50% crit chance and 180 critical damage before might. Otherwise the heavies can simply cycle through defenses and outheal more effectively than the ranger can do damage.

Condition-based pets would need a heavy rework, too, if pet condition damage was based on ranger’s stats. This would also affect some traits.

~ Kovu

Jim Hunter.6821:

OriOri.8724:

I don’t want to just nerf pets, I want their stats to scale with the rangers. That way, for the pet to deal high damage the ranger has to spec for high damage. As it is though, since pets do make up such a large portion of rangers DPS, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the ranger/druid to spec bunkery as hell and still have pets dealing top damage. Just kiting you until you don’t dodge an attack from their pet and take massive damage.

Its just weird to me, I don’t understand why that can happen.

As I said, they do spec for damage, just not with their gear. The sad fact is rangers can spec for full glass and have their damage shrugged off by most meta builds, especially since their “burst” skills consist of a 2.5 second channeled skill on rapid fire that is easily negated by all the projectile hate , a 3.25 second channel that also immobilizes them on whirling defense, and maul which is mediocre unless you proc several damage modifiers and is also the most telegraphed weapon skill in the game (oh look a big spirit bear….).

For pets to have their damage reduced anet would need to redesign rangers. Something along the lines of making them spirit companions that no longer have an auto attack but also no longer take damage. The different pet types could offer unique buffs and have a utility skill tied to the pet type and another utility tied to the individual pet.

Of course if they do this they will have to revisit the way rangers attacks scale with power and give the rangers access to unblockable attacks instead of just tacking it onto the pets.

I don’t think I’m getting my point across very effectively. I don’t want to nerf the damage output that pets can do. In fact I think that with proper scaling it could even be buffed some for a lot of pets. I just want it to scale with the ranger’s stats. So if the ranger went full zerk then their pets would do a crapton of damage (and indeed for a lot of pets I’d be fine if its more than they currently do). But if the ranger decided to bunker up on their own gear, then their pets would be dealing less damage than they currently do.

I just want pets to scale with ranger, not nerf their potential damage output.

And I fully agree that most specs are overpowered right now, and the fact that a full glass ranger can just be shrugged off by a lot of builds is just bad balance.

Retaliation is too strong vs ranged builds and engi flamethrower. It needs more counterplay outside healing and boonstrip.

Perma-resistance Warrior – this shouldn’t be allowed for the same reason the old Diamondskin Ele was nerfed

Condi Mesmer – ridiculously broken compared to other condi builds

Chill Necro – if it weren’t for the above this would be the most broken condi build currently because of how OP Deathly Chill is

LB Dragon Hunter – Why is it allowed to fire Deflecting Shot through its rear-end? Why aren’t DH traps subjected to the same arm times that Thief traps have now?

Druid – Its sustain should be about healing others and less about healing itself

Elementalist – Access to way too many projectile reflects

Thief – Pulmonary impact + headshot spam + interrupt sigils is a little over the top

OriOri.8724:

I don’t want to just nerf pets, I want their stats to scale with the rangers. That way, for the pet to deal high damage the ranger has to spec for high damage. As it is though, since pets do make up such a large portion of rangers DPS, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the ranger/druid to spec bunkery as hell and still have pets dealing top damage. Just kiting you until you don’t dodge an attack from their pet and take massive damage.

Its just weird to me, I don’t understand why that can happen.

Being able to have different stats from your pet is the entire point of pets having their own separate stats.

Honestly, people just can’t wrap their minds around “ranger pets are an actual threat I have to take into account”. Got too used to being able to completely ignore them, I imagine.

This is how I wish ANet treated us.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

OriOri.8724:

I don’t want to just nerf pets, I want their stats to scale with the rangers. That way, for the pet to deal high damage the ranger has to spec for high damage. As it is though, since pets do make up such a large portion of rangers DPS, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the ranger/druid to spec bunkery as hell and still have pets dealing top damage. Just kiting you until you don’t dodge an attack from their pet and take massive damage.

Its just weird to me, I don’t understand why that can happen.

Being able to have different stats from your pet is the entire point of pets having their own separate stats.

Honestly, people just can’t wrap their minds around “ranger pets are an actual threat I have to take into account”. Got too used to being able to completely ignore them, I imagine.

No, its not that I “can’t wrap my head around” that, its that its bogus balancing. No class should be able to wear bunker gear yet have the main source of its damage not be impeded in the slightest. Yet that is what happens with ranger pets.

And again, since you clearly ignored it, I would be in support of even buffing the damage that pets can do, as long as the pets stats scaled with the rangers, so the ranger couldn’t go full bunker and still have high hitting pets.

OriOri.8724:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

OriOri.8724:

I don’t want to just nerf pets, I want their stats to scale with the rangers. That way, for the pet to deal high damage the ranger has to spec for high damage. As it is though, since pets do make up such a large portion of rangers DPS, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the ranger/druid to spec bunkery as hell and still have pets dealing top damage. Just kiting you until you don’t dodge an attack from their pet and take massive damage.

Its just weird to me, I don’t understand why that can happen.

Being able to have different stats from your pet is the entire point of pets having their own separate stats.

Honestly, people just can’t wrap their minds around “ranger pets are an actual threat I have to take into account”. Got too used to being able to completely ignore them, I imagine.

No, its not that I “can’t wrap my head around” that, its that its bogus balancing. No class should be able to wear bunker gear yet have the main source of its damage not be impeded in the slightest. Yet that is what happens with ranger pets.

And again, since you clearly ignored it, I would be in support of even buffing the damage that pets can do, as long as the pets stats scaled with the rangers, so the ranger couldn’t go full bunker and still have high hitting pets.

Buffing the other pets isn’t going to help rangers since the other pets can’t reliably hit moving targets.
If ranger pets did scale with ranger stats you better be prepared for smokescale to kitten you up. Right now its stats are nearly as tanky as the brown bear, with zerk stats and 25 might that thing will hit hard as hell.

Jim Hunter.6821:

OriOri.8724:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

OriOri.8724:

I don’t want to just nerf pets, I want their stats to scale with the rangers. That way, for the pet to deal high damage the ranger has to spec for high damage. As it is though, since pets do make up such a large portion of rangers DPS, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the ranger/druid to spec bunkery as hell and still have pets dealing top damage. Just kiting you until you don’t dodge an attack from their pet and take massive damage.

Its just weird to me, I don’t understand why that can happen.

Being able to have different stats from your pet is the entire point of pets having their own separate stats.

Honestly, people just can’t wrap their minds around “ranger pets are an actual threat I have to take into account”. Got too used to being able to completely ignore them, I imagine.

No, its not that I “can’t wrap my head around” that, its that its bogus balancing. No class should be able to wear bunker gear yet have the main source of its damage not be impeded in the slightest. Yet that is what happens with ranger pets.

And again, since you clearly ignored it, I would be in support of even buffing the damage that pets can do, as long as the pets stats scaled with the rangers, so the ranger couldn’t go full bunker and still have high hitting pets.

Buffing the other pets isn’t going to help rangers since the other pets can’t reliably hit moving targets.
If ranger pets did scale with ranger stats you better be prepared for smokescale to kitten you up. Right now its stats are nearly as tanky as the brown bear, with zerk stats and 25 might that thing will hit hard as hell.

Again, base stats need to be lowered dramatically, and then scale with the rangers stats.

OriOri.8724:

Jim Hunter.6821:

OriOri.8724:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

OriOri.8724:

I don’t want to just nerf pets, I want their stats to scale with the rangers. That way, for the pet to deal high damage the ranger has to spec for high damage. As it is though, since pets do make up such a large portion of rangers DPS, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the ranger/druid to spec bunkery as hell and still have pets dealing top damage. Just kiting you until you don’t dodge an attack from their pet and take massive damage.

Its just weird to me, I don’t understand why that can happen.

Being able to have different stats from your pet is the entire point of pets having their own separate stats.

Honestly, people just can’t wrap their minds around “ranger pets are an actual threat I have to take into account”. Got too used to being able to completely ignore them, I imagine.

No, its not that I “can’t wrap my head around” that, its that its bogus balancing. No class should be able to wear bunker gear yet have the main source of its damage not be impeded in the slightest. Yet that is what happens with ranger pets.

And again, since you clearly ignored it, I would be in support of even buffing the damage that pets can do, as long as the pets stats scaled with the rangers, so the ranger couldn’t go full bunker and still have high hitting pets.

Buffing the other pets isn’t going to help rangers since the other pets can’t reliably hit moving targets.
If ranger pets did scale with ranger stats you better be prepared for smokescale to kitten you up. Right now its stats are nearly as tanky as the brown bear, with zerk stats and 25 might that thing will hit hard as hell.

Again, base stats need to be lowered dramatically, and then scale with the rangers stats.

Again, it already has low attack stats, it just happens to have mechanics that allow it to land it’s attacks. Unless your looking to remove is damage entirely it isn’t going any lower.

OriOri.8724:

No class should be able to wear bunker gear yet have the main source of its damage not be impeded in the slightest. Yet that is what happens with ranger pets.

Kovu.7560:

…for actual ranger weapon attacks to do anything noticeable to the heavy armored professions they need to run at minimum 2,300 power, 50% crit chance and 180 critical damage before might. Otherwise the heavies can simply cycle through defenses and outheal more effectively than the ranger can do damage.

~ Kovu

This isn’t ranger exclusive in the slightest, though.

No, every profession needs to set up for a combo in some respects, but its more prominently required among ranger weapon skills as they generally have lower base damage and coefficients to make up for the damage their pets theoretically do.
Sure you don’t need to invest in power for your pet to do damage, but your pet’s damage alone isn’t winning you any fights and rangers get less out of investing into power than professions that don’t have some of their damage coming from an entirely extraneous source.

In that regard I actually agree with OriOri, I’d like to see pet damage be based more on the ranger’s stats so that the damage my smokescale delivers would matter more against a heavy profession if and when I invest in glassier builds.

On a potentially related note, I wish more power-based ranger utilities were offensively-oriented.

~ Kovu

Kovu.7560:

No, every profession needs to set up for a combo in some respects, but its more prominently required among ranger weapon skills as they generally have lower base damage and coefficients to make up for the damage their pets theoretically do.

~ Kovu

Taking a look on the wiki and comparing GS to other professions most-used melee weapons – looks like Ranger GS skills are mostly higher base damage and their coefficients are on par or better , and with shorter cooldowns.

What game are you playing again?

Guardian: 323 (.8), 323 (.8), 484 (1.2) (2.5s)
Warrior: 282 (.7), 282 (.7),363 (.9) (2.5s)
Ranger: 222 (.55), 222 (.55),290 (.72), (2.56s)
Mesmer: 3x 219-381 (.54-.945) (1.4s)
Necromancer: 403 (1.0), 484 (1.2), 565 (1.4) (2.88s)

I’m not going to cherry pick weapon skills from different weapons as all of the professions play differently, but I pulled the basic auto attack chain from each profession’s greatsword.

~ Kovu

You can’t claim not cherry picking, then only pull auto attack. Auto attack is not something widely used by any any of these professions in WvW, with the exception of Power mesmer if it is in a safe position. Unless you’re zerging. However, contextually, this thread doesn’t seem to be focused there.

What, would you like me to pull every single power-based attack in the game and cross-compare them with ranger’s power based attacks? I have better things to do for the rest of the month.
By cherry picking I (of course) mean picking one of ranger’s harder hitting abilities and comparing it to something on another profession that doesn’t hit as hard. My examples aren’t perfect (most of those auto’s have some other small effect) but it’s within the ballpark of being comperable and at least I’m citing some examples instead of making blanket statements which clearly aren’t accurate.

~ Kovu

Kovu.7560:

…making blanket statements which clearly aren’t accurate.

~ Kovu

Kovu.7560:

…but its more prominently required among ranger weapon skills as they generally have lower base damage and coefficients to make up for the damage their pets theoretically do.

~ Kovu

Lets stop, we’re clearly not going to see eye to eye here.

condis – epi bombs seen a group of 3 necro take out a group of 20 players

kitten it, you’re right, we’re not going to agree on this.

~ Kovu

rangers pets are doing extreme dmg while in tanky gear, they should swap this pet dmg to glassy ranger and nerf dmg to tanky ranger. Its like ranger is tank and healing like jesus while pet doing dmg like terminator without any disadvantages. But hey, wvw is kitten anyways these days cause nobody gives a kitten about balance there.(except when ghost thief solo raid boss then its alarm all over the place – and it deserved this nerf and still some builds waiting to be nerfed in 2022).

I don’t think any of the things suggested in this thread are overpowered, with the exception of one thing.

I don’t play or have a ghost thief, but I’ve never had issues beating them. Just carry a stealth removal trap – they die fairly quickly; most of the players who would use it weren’t very competent pvp wise.

Guardian could be a problem in PvP with class stacking and forcing to fight on nodes, but in WvW there’s no reason to engage on their terms. I don’t play DH, but never have issues beating them in WvW, even on my glass cannon thief.

The warrior being OP is due to a 4 second invul frame (x2 with the passive trait) and berserker stance/healing signet. I treat those fights the same as I would a reaper. Most classes these days have as much or more mobility as warriors do. I would usually kite out the stances and/or boon strip depending on whether I run power or condi. Slow play the fight, don’t need to rush head first while they have all their skills off cooldown, time is in the opponents favour.

Necro, I have a condi necro I min/maxed to the exact stats I wanted – he’s definitely a beast. The reason he’s so effective is not just the damage and tankiness, but it’s because I use “jukes”, spectral walk and wurm to teleport. Without those 2 I wouldn’t be able to 1vX semi competent players (this was prebuff). The best way to beat them, is using range/mobility to your advantage. Necro is one of the slowest classes in the game with no blocks or invuls.. just a fragile second life bar to face tank attacks. Their defense is a good offense, through weakness/poison/chill/fear. Out of shroud, be as close as you possibly can be – CC and hit hard. In reaper you simply walk away, let them waste it or come out of shroud. I find this fight very similar to fighting a warrior.

Druid, I don’t have any class specific strategies for beating – but it’s because I never had much issues with them. I have one as a mule holding all my ascended items and so that I can familiarize myself with their rotations/playstyle with each update. As someone who DOESN’T play it, I wouldn’t like to see them nerfed. The pets are finally useful and I like having an opponent where I have to constantly adapt or change my playstyle to overcome.

As for the one thing, the ONLY class I believe is overtuned in WvW right now it’s the condi chrono/mesmer. I say this as someone who has played it pre-hot and post, very successfully. Mesmer can simply rotate blocks/invuls/stealth/interrupts coupled with high mobility and near immunity to conditions via inspiration. They can deal damage while completely immune themselves. Combine this with high outgoing damage, high sustained damage, and high resilience to damage they are in the right hands impossible to drop. They can also chase targets and lock them down, so there’s no avoiding it in some circumstances. Most of you see the scepter/torch/staff variant, but there are builds far more dangerous than that. I’m currently running one of them. I don’t have any recent videos of my play as I don’t record anymore. However I have an older video (pre-hot) I can link here showing some of the strengths with proper timing – bearing in mind during this time I was fighting warrior when they were considered “overpowered” and mesmer was looked at as useless by and large on the forums, I also intentionally fought in melee range. It’s a different time now but the mechanics I employed at that time I still use today. I completely agree on having this class toned down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfbt_X_Ut_E&t=247s

Op? Probably Condi Chrono if played right.

While not completely broken, the Defense traitline on Warrior is such a no-brainer. You can even quickly swap your last trait depending on what you face. Also Adrenaline Health is included.

The main problem with WvW balance is the combination of PVE-class-balance, food, runes and statsets(HOT, dire) creating a large gap between meta and off-meta builds.

This is what I find OP:

The ability for people to come to the forums and cry about unimportant things, and get them nerfed/changed so that their first-world problems are a little bit easier to swallow.

Odokuro.5049:

This is what I find OP:

The ability for people to come to the forums and cry about unimportant things, and get them nerfed/changed so that their first-world problems are a little bit easier to swallow.

OP implies effectiveness. Posting complaints on the forum is certainly not an effective way to get changes made.

Also, you burned yourself with your “first world problems” comment because you’re complaining about other people complaining about a video game.

Odokuro.5049:

This is what I find OP:

The ability for people to come to the forums and cry about unimportant things, and get them nerfed/changed so that their first-world problems are a little bit easier to swallow.

^Lol @ the salty YB ghost thief

OriOri.8724:

Jim Hunter.6821:

OriOri.8724:

While I agree that condi chrono is overtuned, I’m curious as to what you think should be changed about it considering you didn’t list anything specific.

Bare minimum would be to revert the PvE change they made to confusion. Remove the passive tic so you only take damage if you activate a skill.

I agree that confusion should be changed, not because condi chrono is overperforming, but because its silly to use PvE condi rules when we have separate balance between the game modes.

But I’m still interested to hear what OP thinks needs to be changed, since he is the one that brought it up

while they are at it reintroduce the condi cap for wvw ^^

OriOri.8724:

Jim Hunter.6821:

OriOri.8724:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

OriOri.8724:

I don’t want to just nerf pets, I want their stats to scale with the rangers. That way, for the pet to deal high damage the ranger has to spec for high damage. As it is though, since pets do make up such a large portion of rangers DPS, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the ranger/druid to spec bunkery as hell and still have pets dealing top damage. Just kiting you until you don’t dodge an attack from their pet and take massive damage.

Its just weird to me, I don’t understand why that can happen.

Being able to have different stats from your pet is the entire point of pets having their own separate stats.

Honestly, people just can’t wrap their minds around “ranger pets are an actual threat I have to take into account”. Got too used to being able to completely ignore them, I imagine.

No, its not that I “can’t wrap my head around” that, its that its bogus balancing. No class should be able to wear bunker gear yet have the main source of its damage not be impeded in the slightest. Yet that is what happens with ranger pets.

And again, since you clearly ignored it, I would be in support of even buffing the damage that pets can do, as long as the pets stats scaled with the rangers, so the ranger couldn’t go full bunker and still have high hitting pets.

Buffing the other pets isn’t going to help rangers since the other pets can’t reliably hit moving targets.
If ranger pets did scale with ranger stats you better be prepared for smokescale to kitten you up. Right now its stats are nearly as tanky as the brown bear, with zerk stats and 25 might that thing will hit hard as hell.

Again, base stats need to be lowered dramatically, and then scale with the rangers stats.

the pet would get a % of the ranger’s stats ofc…. that way a toughness ranger would have toughness heavy pets and a glass cannon one will have glassy pets try wrap you head around that for a sec

Choppy.4183:

Odokuro.5049:

This is what I find OP:

The ability for people to come to the forums and cry about unimportant things, and get them nerfed/changed so that their first-world problems are a little bit easier to swallow.

OP implies effectiveness. Posting complaints on the forum is certainly not an effective way to get changes made.

Also, you burned yourself with your “first world problems” comment because you’re complaining about other people complaining about a video game.

You must have not played games for long, complaining certainly is an effective way, look at most of the changes made in big titles nowadays, look how many of those changes/nerfs are set in motion by an endless tide of forums posts whining and crying about things. People complained about, “Ghost Thiefs”, look what got changed, traps. many things have been effected, seems it happens a lot more than you’de like to admit.

zealex.9410:

OriOri.8724:

Jim Hunter.6821:

OriOri.8724:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

OriOri.8724:

I don’t want to just nerf pets, I want their stats to scale with the rangers. That way, for the pet to deal high damage the ranger has to spec for high damage. As it is though, since pets do make up such a large portion of rangers DPS, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the ranger/druid to spec bunkery as hell and still have pets dealing top damage. Just kiting you until you don’t dodge an attack from their pet and take massive damage.

Its just weird to me, I don’t understand why that can happen.

Being able to have different stats from your pet is the entire point of pets having their own separate stats.

Honestly, people just can’t wrap their minds around “ranger pets are an actual threat I have to take into account”. Got too used to being able to completely ignore them, I imagine.

No, its not that I “can’t wrap my head around” that, its that its bogus balancing. No class should be able to wear bunker gear yet have the main source of its damage not be impeded in the slightest. Yet that is what happens with ranger pets.

And again, since you clearly ignored it, I would be in support of even buffing the damage that pets can do, as long as the pets stats scaled with the rangers, so the ranger couldn’t go full bunker and still have high hitting pets.

Buffing the other pets isn’t going to help rangers since the other pets can’t reliably hit moving targets.
If ranger pets did scale with ranger stats you better be prepared for smokescale to kitten you up. Right now its stats are nearly as tanky as the brown bear, with zerk stats and 25 might that thing will hit hard as hell.

Again, base stats need to be lowered dramatically, and then scale with the rangers stats.

the pet would get a % of the ranger’s stats ofc…. that way a toughness ranger would have toughness heavy pets and a glass cannon one will have glassy pets try wrap you head around that for a sec

And that’s how it should be…

Odokuro.5049:

You must have not played games for long, complaining certainly is an effective way, look at most of the changes made in big titles nowadays, look how many of those changes/nerfs are set in motion by an endless tide of forums posts whining and crying about things. People complained about, “Ghost Thiefs”, look what got changed, traps. many things have been effected, seems it happens a lot more than you’de like to admit.

Well, I’ve played this game almost since launch and I’ve seen complaints in the forum about the same thing stretching on for years, so… yeah, not so effective.

People have complained about ghost thieves for quite a long time, and then they got a bit of a buff before this most recent patch. And, for all we know, maybe the only reason it got nerfed was because an Anet employee finally came across a roaming pack of ghost thieves, saw how absurd it was, and set about to change it.

Choppy.4183:

And, for all we know, maybe the only reason it got nerfed was because an Anet employee finally came across a roaming pack of ghost thieves, saw how absurd it was, and set about to change it.

Unlikely – imho the reason it got nerfed was because an Anet employee watched that video on reddit from a guy soloing a PvE-raid-boss on his ghost thief: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5yy0yl/slothasor_solo_kill/
Took them about 6 days after the release of the vid for the nerf. How long was the WvW-crowd complaining to no avail before that?

Would a change to siege be appropriate for this thread.

Would just flat increase the radius any 1 particular siege counts towards the siege area cap
Or
Decrease the actual number of siege pieces per current area

The more players ask for nerfs, Anet will nerf the classes in question. Oh yeah, to make things even, they’ll nerf the remaining characters so no-one goes un-nerfed. If you think some of your characters are squishy now, just wait.

DeadSurvivor.6157:

The more players ask for nerfs, Anet will nerf the classes in question. Oh yeah, to make things even, they’ll nerf the remaining characters so no-one goes un-nerfed. If you think some of your characters are squishy now, just wait.

What professions are squishy now?
Even with glassy builds there is so much blocks, evades, etc. that you can’t really consider anything squishy. Not to mentions all the passive crap that kicks in to save the half asleep keyboard turners.

Everything being nerfed wouldn’t be a bad thing as long as the nerfs are targeted, well thought out, and other skills/traits were buffed in compensation,
i.e. nerf the HoT specs, bring back build diversity