Guild Wars 2

When the system give most of us the most balanced matchup, meaning facing the same servers for the 14th week, people say the game is stale.

When the system add randomness and as a result some matchup will be unbalanced (server population is unbalanced inherently), people say the game is unbalanced and can’t see why randomness is introduced.

With the server population stabilized at this stage, you simply can’t have both (balanced & frequent server rotation)

So what actually do you want? You have to pick one.

And who said WvW matchups have to be balanced in the first place?

If Anet actually listened to the players who play WvW they would have implemented a winner moves up, loser moves down system. This method would have given server rotation as well as somewhat balanced matches (at least more balanced than what it currently is).

Anet’s failure is not that they aren’t trying, it’s that they are trying without listening to the players who actually have to live with the changes they make.

But when polled on this forum if current, WULD or anets new system, the majority went with anets new system.

WULD means every other week we get a blowout. Guaranteed, every single time. After the ratings settle in the new system it should be much nicer than WULD. But the ratings are just really badly off right now.

Because polling on a forum that has no polling option is totally accurate.

The ratings are not going to even out. When you have low tier servers playing high tier servers like we do now, the low tier servers are going to get huge rating boosts despite being completely blown out. Yes Anet will eventually lower the range and then we will be stuck with stale matchups that rarely change once again.

edit: Also please link this poll you speak of. All I see is threads about how terrible the new system is.

They could limit number of players who can access WvWvW to be not more than 20% of the 2nd biggest WvWvW population and no more than 50% more than 3rd WvWvW population. The fact that server WvWvW population allowance ratio now seems to be practically unrestrained suggests that aNet will not implement this sort of mechanism. I can only guess they are afraid of queues.

Judging from what I have seen tiers will eventually be sorted by population and coverage ability and only then by skill. If we were to be matched against the best possible match aNet would need to introduce “population over time” graph and maybe “(score) activity to population present” ratio graph and match servers that best correlate (with a 2-tier difference for randomization).

As I understand it, in the end after all the calculations are done, each server is given one number which is used to match it to other servers. One number won’t work when there are servers with totally different population, coverage and skill involved. It will work (sort of) after the dust settles and servers are matched against comparably (WvWvW) populated oppponents.

Unfortunately I don’t see the dust settling anytime soon as aNet will try to implement solutions to go around two source problems mention above never addressing them directly. This is not intended as flaming against aNet, I simply don’t believe a big company would make such a radical change. Big gaming companies usually make slow patching steps, not radical leaps.

To contribute in a positive way, what could be done now in this situation we are in? Sort servers according to WvWvW population. Perhaps adjusted by one or two positions in accordance with current score (this can be done by sorting servers by score, then comparing relative positions on population list and on score list). In my opinion this would allow for the simple best match in current situation.

General Secretary.3476:

And who said WvW matchups have to be balanced in the first place?

They have to be pretty closely balanced or you lose people.

Edward.7362:

I can only guess they are afraid of queues.

They should (should have in the beginning) use the queues to adjust population more evenly across the servers. T1 should ALWAYS have a que, T2 a little less, etc., until the populations are more even. The problem is they’ve changed the process to move servers. If they made it free again, you’d have too many people asking for money back, and rightfully so. Of course, I left JQ on Day 2 to go to DR, so I may be biased.

The one up, one down system would be flawed as well…

Take servers:

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9

The chances are it would produce 1v2v3 then 1v2v4 then 1v2v3…etc
4v5v6 then3v5v7 then 4v5v6…etc…

Can you see where this is going?

Basically, it would just yo yo servers between tiers, unless you are the middle server, then you just alternate vs 2 different servers…

The matchups isn’t a easy problem to solve…because there are large differences across all servers/tiers…

Meglobob.8620:

The one up, one down system would be flawed as well…

Take servers:

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9

The chances are it would produce 1v2v3 then 1v2v4 then 1v2v3…etc
4v5v6 then3v5v7 then 4v5v6…etc…

Can you see where this is going?

Basically, it would just yo yo servers between tiers, unless you are the middle server, then you just alternate vs 2 different servers…

The matchups isn’t a easy problem to solve…because there are large differences across all servers/tiers…

This is not even close to being correct. Every U.S. tier has at least 2 servers who can compete for 1st place. It would not be the same servers moving up and down week after week.

Is ‘win up, lose down’ perfect? Not quite. But it would be much much much better then anything involving the glicko rating system.

May I suggest:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/SoR-vs-Vizunah-vs-Elona/first#post2184682

Same matchups are okay… I mean look at other games with different PvP stuff – usually you play on 1 server and have 2 or more different factions fighting each other there… and you are the same faction same server all the time… cause it is not servers vs. servesr.

So we should not complain. It’s better to fight at balanced matchups that won’t change that much than pwning others that can’t fight back much… not much WXP cause there is not much to fight… if you are holding everything and they are not taking it back(and then you taking it back again for WXP). Also the fights itself are boring.

Balanced is much better – balanced: Everyone controlling their home borderland and everyone controlling their keep in EB for most of the time.

Certainly not fun if 1 side controls the whole EB and even is able to build WPs at the enemies keeps and able to take home keeps at enemy borderlands.

That should be possible(it often happens)… but you it should not be that imbalanced matchups that you can hold that stuff for a long time… long enought to build the waypoints everywhere.

Aytrix.4059:

This is not even close to being correct. Every U.S. tier has at least 2 servers who can compete for 1st place. It would not be the same servers moving up and down week after week.

No they don’t, and they have no place in the higher tier every other week.

Take this example (Week 21):
SoR/BG/JQ
TC/FA/DB
Meg/KN/YB

If you instigated WULD, in one week you’d have (Week 22):
SoR/BG/TC
JQ/FA/Meg
DB/KN/X (from lower tier)

I can, very quickly, tell you:
SoR will win by a landslide, TC may as well not show up.
JQ will demolish, Meg need not apply.
DB will win.

So then (Week 23):
SoR/BG/JQ
TC/FA/DB
Meg/KN/YB

And forever it remains. You might get a server or two somewhere amongst the… 24 servers that moves up or down and sticks, maybe. Meanwhile, you’ve stranded: BG, FA, KN, etc, to never moving. The same exact servers would just oscillate forever, and you’d condemn TC to fighting SoR and BG every other week, and FA and Meg fighting JQ every other week.

@General Secretary they want the option to whine about everything. They currently have the option and use it to its fullest potential.

General Secretary.3476:

When the system give most of us the most balanced matchup, meaning facing the same servers for the 14th week, people say the game is stale.

When the system add randomness and as a result some matchup will be unbalanced (server population is unbalanced inherently), people say the game is unbalanced and can’t see why randomness is introduced.

With the server population stabilized at this stage, you simply can’t have both (balanced & frequent server rotation)

So what actually do you want? You have to pick one.

And who said WvW matchups have to be balanced in the first place?

gotta say, i’d rather have the random matchups.
i see it as a chance for all of us getting more variety.yes it will be very unbalanced for some weeks, but i think anet is trying to think ahead….(or that’s maybe how i see it atm)
let’s say a tier 1 or 2 server keeps getting matched up with lower servers over and over and the fights are getting boring, a lot of guilds will switch servers once in a while to find a better match up. they will move back for another match up, but let’s face it, most of the people want to transfer to a higher tier and now we are stuck with monsterservers, then a bunch of tier 3 servers and a ton of extremely underpopulated servers.
with this change we might get a chance to slowly adjust that coverage problem.and they also are trying to work on new stuff for wvw, so maybe those future changes will make it not such a number based thing. we will see.

I want mercenary guesting system :p with limited account bound siege placement for a week.

selan.8354:

General Secretary.3476:

When the system give most of us the most balanced matchup, meaning facing the same servers for the 14th week, people say the game is stale.

When the system add randomness and as a result some matchup will be unbalanced (server population is unbalanced inherently), people say the game is unbalanced and can’t see why randomness is introduced.

With the server population stabilized at this stage, you simply can’t have both (balanced & frequent server rotation)

So what actually do you want? You have to pick one.

And who said WvW matchups have to be balanced in the first place?

gotta say, i’d rather have the random matchups.
i see it as a chance for all of us getting more variety.yes it will be very unbalanced for some weeks, but i think anet is trying to think ahead….(or that’s maybe how i see it atm)
let’s say a tier 1 or 2 server keeps getting matched up with lower servers over and over and the fights are getting boring, a lot of guilds will switch servers once in a while to find a better match up. they will move back for another match up, but let’s face it, most of the people want to transfer to a higher tier and now we are stuck with monsterservers, then a bunch of tier 3 servers and a ton of extremely underpopulated servers.
with this change we might get a chance to slowly adjust that coverage problem.and they also are trying to work on new stuff for wvw, so maybe those future changes will make it not such a number based thing. we will see.

This is what we can hope will happen. But people like to win, so the other might happen, more people might move to the servers more likely to win. Since now with the random roll you are just as likely to get rolled even if you had a somewhat fair and balanced tier. And I think most agree it is more fun to be bored winning then be bored losing.

Usually the minorities in opinions are the more vocal

Aytrix.4059:

Because polling on a forum that has no polling option is totally accurate.

The ratings are not going to even out. When you have low tier servers playing high tier servers like we do now, the low tier servers are going to get huge rating boosts despite being completely blown out. Yes Anet will eventually lower the range and then we will be stuck with stale matchups that rarely change once again.

edit: Also please link this poll you speak of. All I see is threads about how terrible the new system is.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/POLL-Which-WvW-Ranking-system-do-you-prefer/page/2#post2137204

Vena.8436:

Aytrix.4059:

This is not even close to being correct. Every U.S. tier has at least 2 servers who can compete for 1st place. It would not be the same servers moving up and down week after week.

No they don’t, and they have no place in the higher tier every other week.

Take this example (Week 21):
SoR/BG/JQ
TC/FA/DB
Meg/KN/YB

If you instigated WULD, in one week you’d have (Week 22):
SoR/BG/TC
JQ/FA/Meg
DB/KN/X (from lower tier)

I can, very quickly, tell you:
SoR will win by a landslide, TC may as well not show up.
JQ will demolish, Meg need not apply.
DB will win.

So then (Week 23):
SoR/BG/JQ
TC/FA/DB
Meg/KN/YB

And forever it remains. You might get a server or two somewhere amongst the… 24 servers that moves up or down and sticks, maybe. Meanwhile, you’ve stranded: BG, FA, KN, etc, to never moving. The same exact servers would just oscillate forever, and you’d condemn TC to fighting SoR and BG every other week, and FA and Meg fighting JQ every other week.

So basically you are saying you never want matches to change. With the current coverages, SOR is going to win by a large amount regardless. It sounds like your biggest concern is blowouts in a WU,LD system… So I ask you how you can support the current system where servers can get matched with other servers 2-3 tiers above them? At least with a WU,LD system, servers would only get matched 1 tier above them.

I’m sure someone will come here and say that I need to wait until ratings stabilize. But the fact is that servers that are playing 2+ tiers above where they should be are still gaining rating despite being completely blown out. If they are gaining rating then they will be matched more frequently with servers out of their league. If Anet shrinks their range of ratings that play against eachother, then we will once again be stuck with stale matchups.

Looking at tier 2, in the last 10 weeks both TC and DB have finished in all three spots several times each. FA has came in both second and third. That means it will not always be TC or DB moving up, and it will not always be FA moving down.

Draygo.9473:

Aytrix.4059:

Because polling on a forum that has no polling option is totally accurate.

The ratings are not going to even out. When you have low tier servers playing high tier servers like we do now, the low tier servers are going to get huge rating boosts despite being completely blown out. Yes Anet will eventually lower the range and then we will be stuck with stale matchups that rarely change once again.

edit: Also please link this poll you speak of. All I see is threads about how terrible the new system is.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/POLL-Which-WvW-Ranking-system-do-you-prefer/page/2#post2137204

Absolutely useless. The system wasn’t even in effect and doesn’t even mention WU,LD. That’s what you based your argument on? lol.

To answer the op’s question, I want varied matchups that aren’t too much of a blowout. And if I were forced to choose between the stagnation of the old system, and the blowouts of the new, I choose the new.

Someone elses answer is going to be different. So the WvW community is not going to be able to pick one because everyone has a different opinion. That’s why you see the arguments in this thread and other’s about WULD. Lot’s of people would prefer WULD, but lots of others would not. And there is no way to tell how many prefer one system over the others – everyone is simply stating their own opinion, me included.

However I do agree that there is currently too much of a variance. Anet has said it will change, let’s just give it some time.

If I have to pick between 1up 1down…the old system..or the new…BY FAR the NEW system.

I would rather play new servers during the week even during a blowout than get stuck in a stale matchup for months on end….

I believe they stated, that they need to collect a month or two of data to get the TRUE server ratings so they intentionally made the range wider until that happens.

Once they have the true ratings of the server they will tone down the RNG and bring it more into an acceptable range. I believe this will ultimately be what everyone is looking for.

So If I have to suffer through a few blowouts for that to happen…so be it. Keep doing your thang ANET. Keep making WvW better for us

What do I want?

mmmm . . . A nice wheel of Stilton cheese would be nice.

tier 6,7,8 werent stale for the last month or so >.>

now i sit here and GoM is 100k points ahead of ET and FC, i feel bad because we out number them so much. Even our PvE players are now band-wagoning in….face smashing doors while standing in AC fire and still being able to get into things through sheer numbers, i die a little in side.

Tenebrous.2451:

What do I want?

mmmm . . . A nice wheel of Stilton cheese would be nice.

Hmm id rather have some smoked guddah

Sororita.3465:

tier 6,7,8 werent stale for the last month or so >.>

now i sit here and GoM is 100k points ahead of ET and FC, i feel bad because we out number them so much. Even our PvE players are now band-wagoning in….face smashing doors while standing in AC fire and still being able to get into things through sheer numbers, i die a little in side.

I kind of think this is a good thing. A lot of pure PvEers are afraid of WvW and getting their feet wet might help your server’s general WvW population.

I’m on FA and WvW 3-4 times a week but my guildies were deathly afraid because every time they went in some TC Zerg would melt them before they even rendered the attackers. Nothing liking getting killed by a sea of red names to demoralize a player.

The new match ups have allowed them to see some varied tactics and survive more often than not instead of hiding in a Zerg hoping a bigger Zerg wasn’t around the corner portal bombing.

snowaugar.1823:

Tenebrous.2451:

What do I want?

mmmm . . . A nice wheel of Stilton cheese would be nice.

Hmm id rather have some smoked guddah

Oh yeah baby…5 year aged gouda. Fuggedaboutit!

The only reason for complaining about a match up would be if you can field a total of 20 people in one map while the enemy can field at least twice that in the same zone while maintaining 500+ PPT. And that already happened before this change due to coverage issues.

Or are you going to tell me the scoreboard dictates how much fun you are having?

Lol’d.

Aytrix.4059:

Draygo.9473:

Aytrix.4059:

Because polling on a forum that has no polling option is totally accurate.

The ratings are not going to even out. When you have low tier servers playing high tier servers like we do now, the low tier servers are going to get huge rating boosts despite being completely blown out. Yes Anet will eventually lower the range and then we will be stuck with stale matchups that rarely change once again.

edit: Also please link this poll you speak of. All I see is threads about how terrible the new system is.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/POLL-Which-WvW-Ranking-system-do-you-prefer/page/2#post2137204

Absolutely useless. The system wasn’t even in effect and doesn’t even mention WU,LD. That’s what you based your argument on? lol.

So argument is invalid because it doesn’t agree with you?
The thread was created after the new rating system went into effect. WULD was discussed in the thread. And just like this one shot down as a horrible idea.