Guild Wars 2

“If two teams have the same number of points, the team with the higher world rating will be considered the higher seed for the purposes of the matchup.” – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/get-ready-for-wvw-spring-tournament-2014/

Cool, but how will you deal with this after the last week? I am from Gunnar’s Hold and it really bothers me, because it looks like we will finish 2nd in all comming matchups. According to this, we will finish at overall 5th place, but we will have many 2nd places while only one 1st place.

Now look at Drakkar Lake. They are worse, which result in that they get easier opponents the next week and get 1st place in that round. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WvW_Spring_Tournament_2014

At the end, Drakkar Lake will end with more 1st places than Gunnar’s Hold even they lost all matches against GH. If the final results are determined by number of 1st places, DL will be higher than GH, which is stupid and makes no sense.

So I am wondering, will you take this https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/wvw to determine final standings if 2 or more servers score same points?

This is the exact problem with the swiss style format, and is why the JG/TC Alliance against BG has been formed (although a mutual hatred for BG had a role).

If this same matchup style is kept for Season 3, the other leagues in both NA and EU should catch on. The same style most likely will not be reused, but servers ought to do the math once the style is released, and plan accordingly.

Well, coming in 2nd in 2 matches is worth 6 points. Coming in 1st and 3rd is worth 6 points. Now, the server coming in 2nd each time, should be able to have the higher world rating, and that is the tie breaker. FA will finish 2nd everytime, and YB should have the same number of points as FA when the season ends. But, FA will still be ranked higher in the Glicko rankings, and will get 2nd.

It’s just the style of match-up, it basically favors 1 group, the one with the most coverage. Whether obtaining that coverage through server stacking or organizing a 2vs1, those with the greatest numbers wins.

I do suspect though Anet will do something about coverage disparities after this season and before next. There are far too many topics cropping up about it now as it’s it’s showing glaring holes into their current system.

The statement about Glicko isn’t definitive with respect to final score. It states that rating will be the arbiter for the purpose of match seeds but doesn’t specifically mention what happens in league ties.

I’ve heard both that rating will be used as a tiebreaker and also that it won’t be, and none of these things has been from Anet. Does anyone know if Anet has stated definitively one way or the other (preferably with a link)?

I do not think they have said. If I were them I would go by the server with the most first place finishes. I think that makes the most sense.

That or hell give both servers the reward for that place, it is not exactly a large difference.

BAITness.1083:

I do not think they have said. If I were them I would go by the server with the most first place finishes. I think that makes the most sense.

I don’t think you understand. Gunnar’s Hold beats Drakkar Lake every time they meet during Spring Tournament. BUT:

<loop>
Gunnar’s finish week in 2nd place, while Drakkar falls to easier opponents because of the loss against Gunnar’s.
Drakkar gets easier opponents next week and finish 1st, while Gunnar’s is 2nd again.
Drakkar moves back to harder opponents.
</loop>

At the end, Drakkar will finish the season with let’s say 4x 1st place, Gunnars with 1x 1st place. Even if they lost every single match against us, they will be placed higher according to your logic.

Andrew Clear.1750:

Well, coming in 2nd in 2 matches is worth 6 points. Coming in 1st and 3rd is worth 6 points. Now, the server coming in 2nd each time, should be able to have the higher world rating, and that is the tie breaker. FA will finish 2nd everytime, and YB should have the same number of points as FA when the season ends. But, FA will still be ranked higher in the Glicko rankings, and will get 2nd.

This only holds true for a season with an even number of weeks. In the case of this nine-week season, the server with all the 2nd place finishes ends up lower.

For all second places, it’s 3 pts X 9 weeks = 27 points

For the server that swaps -

5 +1+5+1+5+1+5+1+5 = 29 points, placing higher in this style tournament than the server placing second the entire time (and beating this server every time they match up).

Bottom line, this type of tournament is broken for this amount of participants.

@Dhampyr: another proof Anet has no idea what is good for WvW tournament and even dare to call it improvement.

Spiky.8403:

@Dhampyr: another proof Anet has no idea what is good for WvW tournament and even dare to call it improvement.

You mean, another proof that people have no clue about what they are talking.
If a server was 2nd in its 1st match-up, it has to either win the next one (in T2) or it doesn’t deserve the 2nd place.

Ozzrel.9825:

Spiky.8403:

@Dhampyr: another proof Anet has no idea what is good for WvW tournament and even dare to call it improvement.

You mean, another proof that people have no clue about what they are talking.
If a server was 2nd in its 1st match-up, it has to either win the next one (in T2) or it doesn’t deserve the 2nd place.

Umwhut? If the server was second in it’s first matchup, it doesn’t GO to T2. It stays in T1, and the server that took 3rd moves down to T2.

Do you even play this game?

Dhampyr.2104:

Ozzrel.9825:

Spiky.8403:

@Dhampyr: another proof Anet has no idea what is good for WvW tournament and even dare to call it improvement.

You mean, another proof that people have no clue about what they are talking.
If a server was 2nd in its 1st match-up, it has to either win the next one (in T2) or it doesn’t deserve the 2nd place.

Umwhut? If the server was second in it’s first matchup, it doesn’t GO to T2. It stays in T1, and the server that took 3rd moves down to T2.

Do you even play this game?

In the 2nd match-up, T1 had servers with 5 points and T2 had server with 3 points. From 3rd match-up on, the 2nd server in T1 stays in T1.

Ozzrel.9825:

In the 2nd match-up, T1 had servers with 5 points and T2 had server with 3 points. From 3rd match-up on, the 2nd server in T1 stays in T1.

Please quit pretending this is some hypothetical math problem, dude. It’s not. I’m ON the server this happened to.

Let me break down how it happened…

Week 1 – (Week 13 in MOS if you want to check it) BG/JQ/TC, JQ takes third, moves down to T2. SoS (first in T2) moved up. So week 2 was BG/TC/SoS (Week 14 in MOS if you want to check it). Notice that the server that took second STAYED in T1, and if it played out, would likely stay in T1 (in second place) the whole tournament.

Either I’m confusing what you’re saying, or you’re wrong. Not sure which really, but I’m betting on the “you’re wrong” part.

Ah, well, NA gold league has 6 server, so that might be a problem, since you had 2 servers with 3 points, but they had to be put in different tiers.

Why weaker group’s 1st has the same point as stronger group’s 1st?

Manen.7253:

Why weaker group’s 1st has the same point as stronger group’s 1st?

This is exactly the problem. It’s extra stupid in NA Gold because there are only 6 servers.

The problem is that Anet ignore serious problems and rather than solving them hide or delete threads.

I really can’t think of worse solution than swiss tournament – anet edition. Not a single word on how they gonna determine final standings, especially if 2 or more servers got equal points. If they choose number of 1st places as criteria, it will be extremely unfair.

Atm it’s better to lose on purpose rather than fighting for 2nd place, just to get easier opponents and get 1st place in next week, which is bs and they should’ve foreseen it.

Ozzrel.9825:

Ah, well, NA gold league has 6 server, so that might be a problem, since you had 2 servers with 3 points, but they had to be put in different tiers.

Yanno, let me apologize for the snarky comments. This whole tournament has been frustrating for NA Gold, and that’s ANet’s poor choice, not yours.

Sorry for pointing my frustration your way.

Dhampyr.2104:

Andrew Clear.1750:

Well, coming in 2nd in 2 matches is worth 6 points. Coming in 1st and 3rd is worth 6 points. Now, the server coming in 2nd each time, should be able to have the higher world rating, and that is the tie breaker. FA will finish 2nd everytime, and YB should have the same number of points as FA when the season ends. But, FA will still be ranked higher in the Glicko rankings, and will get 2nd.

This only holds true for a season with an even number of weeks. In the case of this nine-week season, the server with all the 2nd place finishes ends up lower.

For all second places, it’s 3 pts X 9 weeks = 27 points

For the server that swaps -

5 +1+5+1+5+1+5+1+5 = 29 points, placing higher in this style tournament than the server placing second the entire time (and beating this server every time they match up).

Bottom line, this type of tournament is broken for this amount of participants.

But the server that will get 2nd for “all weeks” on the top match of the league, got 5 pts on the second week. So, it’s actualy 3 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 29 (same as the 3rd server), oposed to 3 × 9 = 27 which would result in being ranked lower than the server swaping in the 3rd place. The server that will actually get 3 on all matchups is the server that get second on the middle match of the league.

Dhampyr.2104:

Ozzrel.9825:

Ah, well, NA gold league has 6 server, so that might be a problem, since you had 2 servers with 3 points, but they had to be put in different tiers.

Yanno, let me apologize for the snarky comments. This whole tournament has been frustrating for NA Gold, and that’s ANet’s poor choice, not yours.

Sorry for pointing my frustration your way.

That was really nice bro

Also agree with your frustrations with the tournament.

Jeknar.6184:

But the server that will get 2nd for “all weeks” on the top match of the league, got 5 pts on the second week. So, it’s actualy 3 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 29 (same as the 3rd server), oposed to 3 × 9 = 27 which would result in being ranked lower than the server swaping in the 3rd place. The server that will actually get 3 on all matchups is the server that get second on the middle match of the league.

No, not in NA Gold. This format does not work for a six-server league. The server that got second week 1 took second week 2 as well.

Yeah… I made the math, and if Gold was actually running by the regular standarts, SoS would finish 2nd (lol wut?).

I guess JQ/TC doing 2v1 on BG have another excuse to continue, more than sheer hatred…

Jeknar.6184:

Yeah… I made the math, and if Gold was actually running by the regular standarts, SoS would finish 2nd (lol wut?).

I guess JQ/TC doing 2v1 on BG have another excuse to continue, more than sheer hatred…

This was probably a very big factor behind the 2v1 to begin with. Both TC and JQ stand to place higher than we would otherwise (we will place 3rd and 5th, only pending the result of week 9), that’s why a 2v1 can even take place. If either server didn’t need the other’s help or didn’t stand to benefit then there’s no reason to form the alliance at all.

Because whoever loses in T1 just drops to T2 for a free win, there’s no difference whatsoever between coming in 2nd and 3rd in the T1 matchup. SoS starts on a win week and ends on it as well, guaranteeing 2nd place unless BG can be toppled.

Jeknar.6184:

Yeah… I made the math, and if Gold was actually running by the regular standarts, SoS would finish 2nd (lol wut?).

I guess JQ/TC doing 2v1 on BG have another excuse to continue, more than sheer hatred…

Well, from my standpoint, there isn’t any BG hated at all – both JQ and BG are tons of fun to fight.

NA Gold, with the political intrigue going on, is pretty interesting to follow and be a part of (for me anyway). Who knows how it will all play out.

if they have the same points the tie SHOULD be broken by who won when they played each other, and if that was also a tie then by the combined scores of their matches, and if they haven’t played each other yet then and only then by their overall rank/seed.

Where is the gain in breaking ties, instead of giving both the higher reward?

Or it could just be a tie and both get the same tournament reward.

If you look at https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/ then it look like ties get the same reward. There are a lot of tied 2nd and 4th in the table.

Why do we even need to speculate? Why was this information not clearly broadcast to us in the first place?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Why do we even need to speculate? Why was this information not clearly broadcast to us in the first place?

+1.

Dhampyr.2104:

Jeknar.6184:

Yeah… I made the math, and if Gold was actually running by the regular standarts, SoS would finish 2nd (lol wut?).

I guess JQ/TC doing 2v1 on BG have another excuse to continue, more than sheer hatred…

Well, from my standpoint, there isn’t any BG hated at all – both JQ and BG are tons of fun to fight.

NA Gold, with the political intrigue going on, is pretty interesting to follow and be a part of (for me anyway). Who knows how it will all play out.

thx bro we luv you too <3

I think the only “hatred” comes from BG’s former SoR rivals that are on other servers now. It was intense and it will take a bit to die down, but it is just a tribute to how awesome the WvW was between those two servers.

Also, in light of all the examples given above, I really think the only thing to do if two servers finish in one place is to consider it a tie for that spot and give both the reward. It seems like the only surefire way to not screw anybody over (more than they already have been by the tournament).

ykyk.2740:

Jeknar.6184:

Yeah… I made the math, and if Gold was actually running by the regular standarts, SoS would finish 2nd (lol wut?).

I guess JQ/TC doing 2v1 on BG have another excuse to continue, more than sheer hatred…

This was probably a very big factor behind the 2v1 to begin with.

It was always a huge factor, along with the dislike of BG.