Anyone who has played in Silverwastes will have noticed the PvE caravans have a special feature, namely that after they die, there is a short timer during which they can be revived before the event fails. Perhaps with this setup, you’d have to kill the NPC guards otherwise they would just rez the yak.
Pros
Would make sniping a yak less trivial
More opportunities for PvP, as yakslappers would have to camp the corpse to guarantee a kill
Less frustration for scouts who are usually powerless to save yaks
Could lead to big fights over yak routes
Cons
Could make it harder for smaller groups to have any impact if there are lots of larger groups around
Boring to camp a yak if nobody comes (but probably boring anyway if nobody is around to protect a yak)
I don’t know if the devs have already considered this kind of change, but what are your thoughts?
Talleyrand, Captain and Commander of the Bloody Pirates
Asura on patrol in defense of Gandara and Bessie!
Administrator of http://thisisgandara.com
Actually that is a interesting concept. Allowing yaks to enter downed mode would make yak escorting more balanced in terms of likelihood of survival vs likelihood of defeat. Currently it is indeed far far to easy to kill a yak, ontrary to duccessfully escorting one
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
as a roamer I wouldn’t mind this as 99% of the yaks I kill are unattended.
as a yak defender I would Definitely like this as when we get to that “we need yaks” part theres always a player who seems to kill the yak in a second.
It might be connected with the guards.
As long as they live, the dolyak can be revived. Dollys from camps that haven’t been upgraded don’t have a “downed”-state.
It might be connected with the guards.
As long as they live, the dolyak can be revived. Dollys from camps that haven’t been upgraded don’t have a “downed”-state.
Really? I should test this sometime. I didn’t think that the guards could revive it; I figured they just went back to the camp/despawned (not that it matters since people usually kill the guards too if they’re killin’ the poor animal).
It might be connected with the guards.
As long as they live, the dolyak can be revived. Dollys from camps that haven’t been upgraded don’t have a “downed”-state.
Really? I should test this sometime. I didn’t think that the guards could revive it; I figured they just went back to the camp/despawned (not that it matters since people usually kill the guards too if they’re killin’ the poor animal).
I guess you misunderstood me, I gave that as a possible way of implement a downed state.
Right now, if you attack a dolly with guards you want to focus on the dolyak, and on the dolyak only. Once the dolyak dies, the guards despawn as well.
Removing the despawn aspect of the guards could cause some problems. For example, when I come across a camp with 2 dolyaks sitting inside with 2 escorts each, I usually focus the dolyaks to get rid of the 4 extra guards. If the guards didn’t despawn, taking the camp would be MUCH harder.
As long as the guards still despawn, I think it’s a cool idea. I woudn’t even mind if the escorts came back after rezing the yak.
Another cool thing that could be added to the dolyak system would be to have the dolyaks appear where they actually are in the world so you could hit them. Just a thought though :P
I actually really like that idea where the dolyak can be revived if it has a Guard escort and the escorts are still alive. Currently the escorts are laughable as you can just focus the dolyak and the guards despawn as soon as it is dead. Implementing this would mean that enemies would be forced to deal with the guards first before killing the yak, thus forcing a greater time investment from snipers.
I typed this up on my phone, so there are a couple details I’ll clarify:
When a dolyak is killed, there appears a failure timer, probably around 60-120 seconds. If the dolyak doesn’t get ressed before the timer runs out, the event fails.
It has to be hard-ressed like a supervisor.
The guards wouldn’t despawn unless the escort event failed, but they could be killed (before or after the dolyak).
If the guards aren’t killed or fighting anything, they will res the dolyak.
Players can also res the dolyak.
Of course, this is just one idea. A possible variation would be to make the yak lose 10-15 supply every time it was killed.
Sabwa – Yes, it would be much harder to take a camp with two dolyaks inside, but it would defeat the purpose of guards being able to res if they just despawned. Perhaps the problem in the first place is that dolyaks spawn in camps even when they have nowhere to go.
Talleyrand, Captain and Commander of the Bloody Pirates
Asura on patrol in defense of Gandara and Bessie!
Administrator of http://thisisgandara.com
I typed this up on my phone, so there are a couple details I’ll clarify:
When a dolyak is killed, there appears a failure timer, probably around 60-120 seconds. If the dolyak doesn’t get ressed before the timer runs out, the event fails.
It has to be hard-ressed like a supervisor.
The guards wouldn’t despawn unless the escort event failed, but they could be killed (before or after the dolyak).
If the guards aren’t killed or fighting anything, they will res the dolyak.
Players can also res the dolyak.
I really like this idea. +1 from me.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
Really like this idea, though I would be in favor of them being rezzable in the first place being tied in with escort upgrade. so no escort and they die permanently as soon as they are killed. Now with escort well if you leave the guards alive, they will rez the dolyak, If you kill both the dolyak and the guards. The corpses would still be there for some time for other players to rez (not sure if you would be required to rez the guards as well manually or if they autorez when dolly is back up though)
Anyone who has played in Silverwastes will have noticed the PvE caravans have a special feature, namely that after they die, there is a short timer during which they can be revived before the event fails. Perhaps with this setup, you’d have to kill the NPC guards otherwise they would just rez the yak.
Removing the despawn aspect of the guards could cause some problems. For example, when I come across a camp with 2 dolyaks sitting inside with 2 escorts each, I usually focus the dolyaks to get rid of the 4 extra guards. If the guards didn’t despawn, taking the camp would be MUCH harder.
Actually I consider this more of a reason for the OP’s suggestion to be implemented. It gives the upgrade more worth.
That is actually a great idea and would definetly be an improvement for WvW. A short, maybe 3-4 min event for reviving the yak. It would help defending them and it would mean attackers have to risk them getting back up if they just snipe and move on.
That is actually a great idea and would definetly be an improvement for WvW. A short, maybe 3-4 min event for reviving the yak. It would help defending them and it would mean attackers have to risk them getting back up if they just snipe and move on.
I cannot see any real cons to it.
3-4 minutes is way too long. That would actually slow down most Dolyak routes compared to sending a new Dolly to replace the dead one.
1 minute should be plenty if there is anyone there defending the dolly train.
Before making up new ideas for WvW, remember that they should NOT favor the server with more population! This is another idea that would just make the higher population servers stronger and smaller population servers weaker!
So, until ANet fixes population unbalances i say
HELL NO!
I speak for myself, not for my server or my guild.
Solo roamer, all classes.
1 minute should be plenty if there is anyone there defending the dolly train.
Agreed. The Bulls out in the Silverwastes have a 1 minute revival timer TOTAL per route. So, if the Bull dies again, it picks up where the timer left off. Which I think would be best.
Before making up new ideas for WvW, remember that they should NOT favor the server with more population! This is another idea that would just make the higher population servers stronger and smaller population servers weaker!
So, until ANet fixes population unbalances i say
HELL NO!
Then how do you go about fixing the population imbalance?
it’s not my job to think about that. I have some ideas but they would probadly take well over a full post to tell so i won’t go on about that. Fact is that as long as matchups are unbalanced anything that favors the server with more people will just hurt wvw.
I speak for myself, not for my server or my guild.
Solo roamer, all classes.
Before making up new ideas for WvW, remember that they should NOT favor the server with more population! This is another idea that would just make the higher population servers stronger and smaller population servers weaker!
So, until ANet fixes population unbalances i say
HELL NO!
How would it make smaller population servers weaker? Evidence supporting your thesis would greatly help your argument.
Before making up new ideas for WvW, remember that they should NOT favor the server with more population! This is another idea that would just make the higher population servers stronger and smaller population servers weaker!
So, until ANet fixes population unbalances i say
HELL NO!
How would it make smaller population servers weaker? Evidence supporting your thesis would greatly help your argument.
Use common sense. One of the only ways for a weaker server to fight a stronger one is to cut their supply lines. This often happens by sniping the dolyak, since the higher population server has (duh…) more people defending the dolyak. Killing the dolyak with even 4 players defending it is quite hard, imagine if the four players could hard ress the dolyak?
Outnumbered fights suck already because of the way hard ressing works. If a group of 5 could survive and defeat people from say a group of 20, 5 of the bigger group will just hard ress the defeated ones even if the small group could stomp them. Naturally applying the hard ress system to dolyaks would hurt smaller servers and make bigger servers stronger.
I speak for myself, not for my server or my guild.
Solo roamer, all classes.
Before making up new ideas for WvW, remember that they should NOT favor the server with more population! This is another idea that would just make the higher population servers stronger and smaller population servers weaker!
So, until ANet fixes population unbalances i say
HELL NO!
How would it make smaller population servers weaker? Evidence supporting your thesis would greatly help your argument.
Use common sense. One of the only ways for a weaker server to fight a stronger one is to cut their supply lines. This often happens by sniping the dolyak, since the higher population server has (duh…) more people defending the dolyak. Killing the dolyak with even 4 players defending it is quite hard, imagine if the four players could hard ress the dolyak?
Outnumbered fights suck already because of the way hard ressing works. If a group of 5 could survive and defeat people from say a group of 20, 5 of the bigger group will just hard ress the defeated ones even if the small group could stomp them. Naturally applying the hard ress system to dolyaks would hurt smaller servers and make bigger servers stronger.
Then make the overall timer 15 seconds per route. Rezzing would take 5 seconds, but that’s if you can get to the Dolyak when enemy players are attacking. They’d be able to rez the dolyak once or twice at most before it stays dead.
Or how about when you buy extra supplies in the camp you can chose caravan , Dolyak carry more supplies juggernaut is extra though , mantis have cannon , skale is faster.
Just an idea could be different caravans
Use common sense. One of the only ways for a weaker server to fight a stronger one is to cut their supply lines. This often happens by sniping the dolyak, since the higher population server has (duh…) more people defending the dolyak. Killing the dolyak with even 4 players defending it is quite hard, imagine if the four players could hard ress the dolyak?
Outnumbered fights suck already because of the way hard ressing works. If a group of 5 could survive and defeat people from say a group of 20, 5 of the bigger group will just hard ress the defeated ones even if the small group could stomp them. Naturally applying the hard ress system to dolyaks would hurt smaller servers and make bigger servers stronger.
How does sniping dolyaks when you’re outnumbered help get you points if the numerically superior server is still holding Keeps and Towers? Whether or not they’re tier 3.
Use common sense. One of the only ways for a weaker server to fight a stronger one is to cut their supply lines. This often happens by sniping the dolyak, since the higher population server has (duh…) more people defending the dolyak. Killing the dolyak with even 4 players defending it is quite hard, imagine if the four players could hard ress the dolyak?
Outnumbered fights suck already because of the way hard ressing works. If a group of 5 could survive and defeat people from say a group of 20, 5 of the bigger group will just hard ress the defeated ones even if the small group could stomp them. Naturally applying the hard ress system to dolyaks would hurt smaller servers and make bigger servers stronger.
How does sniping dolyaks when you’re outnumbered help get you points if the numerically superior server is still holding Keeps and Towers? Whether or not they’re tier 3.
I believe what hes trying to say is that, some smaller servers use this tactic to cut off supply to towers to make them easier to cap. So that the larger servers do not have a steady amount of supply to repair, and build siege. This weakens towers and keeps to some degree to allow smaller groups easier capping methods. Just for clarification :p
Mystogen 80 Mes
Knights Of The Knightmare
S3 Legend
Before making up new ideas for WvW, remember that they should NOT favor the server with more population! This is another idea that would just make the higher population servers stronger and smaller population servers weaker!
So, until ANet fixes population unbalances i say
HELL NO!
I think even low pop server got a thief or warrior to spare to run caravans from time to time.
This would actually favor the smaller servers as they usually struggle to secure supplies vs bigger servers. Bigger servers are also, from my experience, more prone to zerg then roam or escort, they consist modtly of pugs with no interest in server performance. If these pugs get a harder time shutting down supplies, their sheer size will be less of a problem.
This change greatly help servers which are outmanned, as even ONE players initiative can have a much greater effect on the game.
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
Before making up new ideas for WvW, remember that they should NOT favor the server with more population! This is another idea that would just make the higher population servers stronger and smaller population servers weaker!
So, until ANet fixes population unbalances i say
HELL NO!
I think even low pop server got a thief or warrior to spare to run caravans from time to time.
This would actually favor the smaller servers as they usually struggle to secure supplies vs bigger servers. Bigger servers are also, from my experience, more prone to zerg then roam or escort, they consist modtly of pugs with no interest in server performance. If these pugs get a harder time shutting down supplies, their sheer size will be less of a problem.
This change greatly help servers which are outmanned, as even ONE players initiative can have a much greater effect on the game.
A single player will have less impact if they can’t kill dolyaks anymore.
I speak for myself, not for my server or my guild.
Solo roamer, all classes.
Before making up new ideas for WvW, remember that they should NOT favor the server with more population! This is another idea that would just make the higher population servers stronger and smaller population servers weaker!
So, until ANet fixes population unbalances i say
HELL NO!
I think even low pop server got a thief or warrior to spare to run caravans from time to time.
This would actually favor the smaller servers as they usually struggle to secure supplies vs bigger servers. Bigger servers are also, from my experience, more prone to zerg then roam or escort, they consist modtly of pugs with no interest in server performance. If these pugs get a harder time shutting down supplies, their sheer size will be less of a problem.
This change greatly help servers which are outmanned, as even ONE players initiative can have a much greater effect on the game.
A single player will have less impact if they can’t kill dolyaks anymore.
You do have a point, but I don’t think that would impact so much. How often do you actually attack a well-defended dolyak train alone? How often do servers that have a big lead actually defend the supply runs to towers that are already T3?
Sure, after this change there would be more incentive to defend the train because there could be a chance to actually keep the dolly alive should there be a lone attacker coming to it.
So maybe make it so you’ll have to stomp the dolly if you want to finish it off before the 1 minute time runs out? This would also negate the need to stick around if you’ve already killed the guards and downed the dolyak.
Before making up new ideas for WvW, remember that they should NOT favor the server with more population! This is another idea that would just make the higher population servers stronger and smaller population servers weaker!
So, until ANet fixes population unbalances i say
HELL NO!
I think even low pop server got a thief or warrior to spare to run caravans from time to time.
This would actually favor the smaller servers as they usually struggle to secure supplies vs bigger servers. Bigger servers are also, from my experience, more prone to zerg then roam or escort, they consist modtly of pugs with no interest in server performance. If these pugs get a harder time shutting down supplies, their sheer size will be less of a problem.
This change greatly help servers which are outmanned, as even ONE players initiative can have a much greater effect on the game.
A single player will have less impact if they can’t kill dolyaks anymore.
A single player would be able to kill the dolyak, if the dolyak was unprotected (by players).
Just like it should be. The only time i could see that it would be unfair is that you cannot assassinate the doly in the middle of a huge group as you currently can. Then again, adding a hint of realism, eg. “there is actually someone protecting this from being harmed” is not a bad thing.
Just like a single player would struggle to kill a defended doly, so would a group if a single player escorted it too. because they would have to stop a dolyak, and a player. Neglecting either would most likely lead to failure
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
Being able to kill dolyaks while they’re being defended is one of the only things you are actually able to do if the enemy’s group is bigger. In a game where you can stack on certain servers to receive advantages revivable dolyaks is not a “like it should be” thing in my opinion.
I think it would be a good change to implement the idea like Tom Gore suggested (so that you can stomp the dolyak), add back PPK and remove white swords from supply camps and normal towers. And maybe make it so that you can see white swords everywhere if you have the outnumbered buff.
I speak for myself, not for my server or my guild.
Solo roamer, all classes.
Though I like the idea, I do not think it will have much of a consequence, unless players actually care for the dolly. But if they do, it would be a great help for the ones caring.
Maybe even all NPCs can get a sort of downed state. Would make camp flipping with smaller groups or solo certainly more interesting.
[ROSE] – Fissure of Woe
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!
Maybe even all NPCs can get a sort of downed state. Would make camp flipping with smaller groups or solo certainly more interesting.
Sometimes i’m glad ANet doesn’t listen to suggestions.
interestingly enough, you seem to be the only one truly agains this based upon the most ludicrous excuse any WvW player can make.
Sorry mate, but ive played in EU T5-T1 and NA T3 and T1. Neither of these places would have issues with this. Smaller servers would benefit, larger servers wouldnt benefit much from it as they would be steamrolling either way. Sniping a few dollies VS a much bigger server has little impact in the first place mainly because it only ever does one thing, potentially give the karma train something to recapture.
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
If the timer just picked up where it left off and the dolyaks could not be healed back up and could not be sped up (like golems), then this would actually favor smaller populated servers.
A single thief should be able to dwidle a dolyak down even if there are up to 5 opposing players guarding it. All 5 wouldn’t rez because then the thief would just go to town on one of the players.
This means that the smaller server only needs to send one player while the bigger server has to send 5 (or more). More people defending means less people in the zerg. So the smaller server’s zerg would stand a better chance against the bigger server’s zerg.
