Guild Wars 2

I mean just imagine if upon capture an upgrade was given tier 3 status. Then over time it degraded back to tier 1 status.

How would this change the gameplay and the game?

-I mean for starters it would change the yak mechanics completely. Maybe yaks going to the upgrade now slow the rate of decay on the objective. Or maybe yaks don’t need to exist for anything other than objective supply.

-Maybe we could get rid of RI on EVERY objective even camps. This would allow people to flip camps for usage of their supply…which makes sense to me. And would give people new ways to defend objectives and fight inside objectives…..rather than always jumping out and/or waiting 5+ minutes every time. And maybe we could get rid of ppt on camps….which also makes sense to me.

-gameplay. Taking an objective is now a BIG DEAL. Its not gonna flip back like nothing. People are gonna be inclined to defend it. Ktraining is gonna die! I mean people are gonna wanna defend. And this goes vice versa too right? the outer towers in ebg are always paper for k-training…..whats gonna happen to them now? Like I said, ktraining is GONNA DIE! The smart commanders who ktrain are gonna have to organize their groups better and select less linear paths for their farm. Zergs are gonna have to learn not to be mindless, if not they are gonna have to take T3 objectives from people who are gonna wanna defend them. TL:DR: Once something that is paper is taken…..its not gonna be paper again for a very very long time is what I’m saying….this will kill ktraining one way or the other.

-i think this is a really good point to make: it would give the losing team a “way back into the game”. I mean if you are on the losing team, just getting rekt on ebg all the time….you own absolutely nothing lets say. Over time…..the things of yours that got captured are now tier 1 paper again. Infact the entire enemy bl could be paper! Just ripe for the picking! Even if you are outnumbered 24/7 you now have a chance to “spread out” and attack paper towers and instantly have a base you can defend (tier 3 fortified!). I honestly think this is ingenious from a gameplay perspective. Its solves every problem with ktraining and server population imbalances….and it fits with the skirmish system so well. Couple this with the new skirmish gameplay….this will be awesome! A bl who dominates completely for a day can be fought by the losing bl’s with such a system. It encourages people not to ‘give up’ on the kind of one-sided matches we’ve seen to date. It would really encourage a back and forth dialogue between all servers regardless of their population/power/whatever. I mean most people don’t play for the final score and this is gonna create battles and scenarios that they can jump into on the fly at any time during the week…..and where they can actually shape the bl! I mean in the extreme scenarios we see today: one bl dominates…..all of ebg is fortified and taken over by the enemy……what can the loser do but wait till the week is over? But now everything can change with this one little rework!

-Also imagine the new kind of tactics this would bring to the mode! If you lost ebg entirely NOT ALL HOPE IS LOST! You can simply put all your manpower into the other 3 borderlands to maintain ur ppt……then once some time passes in ebg everything is paper again for you to retake easily. People complain that being outnumbered on ebg means ur bl is screwed the entire week. Well now you have the option of abandoning ebg and redistributing ur forces to the other bl….creating a viable way to counter GIANT borderlands. Its really dumb to try and fight something 10x ur size in ebg…..people who do it feel like the mode has betrayed them and get upset. Well now…what happens? You can shrug it off and be like “these guys are dumb, they sent too many to ebg, now we can go to this bl and do some damage and come back later to ebg and recap it all in paper form for great ktrain and ppt and other stuff”
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What do you all think of this? I don’t see any downsides to the downgrade concept. I know the homeland defense players will be upset they can’t oversee a fully fortified borderland, but I also know most of them will be more happy overall because it opens up the other roles of the game to them and their smaller groups. Small guild groups are gonna have a very real role in a borderland’s success if this change is adopted, no doubt in my mind (cause of the points listed above)

I really hope someone from Anet reads this and ‘gets it’. There are definitely many little things to work out as I had listed in the various points. Overall the concept is simple and easy to implement. I totally agree that the basic concept sounds horrible at first, but it really does accomplish everything anet has told us they want the mode to do/be…..AND it will alleviate many many concerns/frustrations the playerbase has had.

i cant edit the topic…..ive edited it 5 times with the same stuff but it always fails…and i have to retype it

Cerby.1069:

i cant edit the topic…..ive edited it 5 times with the same stuff but it always fails…and i have to retype it

Notepad is your friend.

It would be annoying for k-trainers but hellish for anyone actually looking to defend. I don’t want to have my walls downgrading for no reason other than time.

I think what would ultimately happen is an expanded schedule of k-training to hit things when they’re paper.

Sviel.7493:

It would be annoying for k-trainers but hellish for anyone actually looking to defend. I don’t want to have my walls downgrading for no reason other than time.

I think what would ultimately happen is an expanded schedule of k-training to hit things when they’re paper.

OKay fair point.

Let’s think about that though. If there is an expanded schedule to k-train when something is paper….that would imply there is waiting. Waiting while an objective is active is giving points to your enemy, which is the objective of the game. I won’t deny that it might very well be a case of a ktrain group planning and hitting whatever bl has held on for the longest and is all paper…..and invading and ktraining that bl. Isn’t that the idea of the game though? And when ur target is based on paper level and not score level or population…..doesn’t that change up the meta a bit? As it is, you always attack the third place server if you want easy towers and keeps. With this system it would make the strongest server look the most tempting of targets most of the time.

I mean we need to assume that all servers are operating with the same resources. And by that I mean, we need to assume they all have ktrain groups… zergs …. roamers … scouts …. defenders….everything!

And doesn’t that keep each bl active and on their feet? And what about the aftereffects of that ktraining of a bl….wouldn’t that create exciting scenario’s? (say they take half of the bl……then half of it is theirs and fortified). Or they blitz the winning team’s bl…and take it alll!!! and the winning team has to come back and waste time and resources retaking everything since its T3. I mean that would teach even the winning team to not blob up so much…..and to spread their resources more evenly to each of the borderlands.

Another way to reframe this idea is with the waypoints. Like I said i tried to edit it 5 times, each time i put in a section about waypoints. THe idea being: do we let keeps have a waypoint immediately upon being capped. Or do we get rid of them or change them or make them build them in a differnt way. I mean here’s another option: make the waypoints appear on T1 keeps and make them permanently or semi-permanently open. When I say semi-permanently perhaps there could be a way to destroy the waypoint once on the lord or contest it. Anyways, that way you always have a way to get people into a paper keep thats being hit. So communication is really the walls of the keeps at that stage.

After I wrote the Op I started thinking of all the negatives a few hours later and how it wouldn’t work. Upon further reflection though….all these negatives are similar to the ones we have with the current system. But this new system seeks to address them through the players themselves, by reintroducing the players to different roles and tactics that have been long lost in wvsw.

And like I may have mentioned , i might not have in this version, there could be a way for defenders to slow the downgrade or even reverse it at times. As well it was my hope that opening the new roles would give defenders more gameplay they would enjoy. FOr pure defenders who won’t budge regardless of what is offered…….yes they should NOT vote for anything in this OP. But I could also say pure blobbers should NOT vote for anything that changes the current wvsw.

I think everyone needs to be open to moving out of their comfort zone a bit for any positive change to happen in wvsw. I mean if I have to deal with a bit of somewhat enjoyable-medicore blob gameplay along with my pretty enjoyable-enjoyable small group gameplay….so be it.

TL:DR; theres so much text to type in defense of the downgrade idea. For every point there is a counter point. And its hopeful and intuitive since its the opposite of what alot of people think is the wrong way (the currrent wvsw). True defenders are gonna have to expand their horizons a bit and take the new exciting routes being offered to them in terms of new roles. I’d bet that most of them would be happy down the road after some time has passed, some might be very unhappy though i will not deny.

I think it is an interesting idea with some fun options. Would need a lot of pondering and discussion first though, to think through all implications. Would be a very fun 1 weeks test.