Guild Wars 2

I’ve been mulling this over for the last couple of weeks, because it’s been bothering me how bored I’ve gotten of WvW. When I first started, I was very excited about the open world combat and the freeform style of it. I like evenly matched structured PvP as well, but there’s something to be said for the raw chaotic style of WvW.

But lately WvW has become kind of stale. There’s really only a few things you can do. You can run around and gank individual stragglers or people trying to finish explorers or running supply. You can join a zerg and go do the Player vs Door thing. Or you can defend.

Some of this is fun for awhile, but eventually it just becomes rinse and repeat. You’re attacking and capturing towers/castles/keeps so your realm gets more points. Getting you more points gets your realm…..bonuses, which are then used to help you better….well, capture points. It’s circular. But even completely dominating the other two servers and holding all the points on all the maps doesn’t really mean anything other than your server moving up a rank or two. So what does getting your server up in the ranking do? Nothing, other than bragging rights maybe.

There definitely feels like something is missing from WvW. sPvP at least has personal ranks, and there’s a sense of progression. WvW lacks that. All you’re getting is karma and exp and maybe some gold.

I don’t know if I’m articulating it well enough. Maybe I’m just bored with WvW. Does anyone else feel like some kind of progression is missing from WvW?

right now?

Winning and Losing reward the same thing: NOTHING

so to adress your question.. what is the point? I’ll simply quote this

When I go home people’ll ask me, “Hey Hoot, why do you do it man? What, you some kinda war junkie?” You know what I’ll say? I won’t say a kitten word. Why? They won’t understand. They won’t understand why we do it. They won’t understand that it’s about the men next to you, and that’s it. That’s all it is.

Nope! No progression needed. Fun as is, let alone when they fix the bugs and broken stuff (like thieves!)

Completely dominating the map is just as bad as getting dominated, IMO. Its just a boring and funless week for everyone involved.

edit: good quote.

ArenaNET does not want players to be rewarded for losing or winning — it’s more about jumping in and enjoying their game.

That said, the WvW Orb situation has in fact killed WvW for me. I was a heavy, heavy WvW until the Orb hacking and buffing destroyed the balance. (now that I have mentioned “Orb” within this thread, no developer will touch it with a reply — guaranteed)

Eliteseraph, I completely agree with you here.

In the beginning, I was very excited about WvW either. That was the biggest thing I wanted while I was playing alliance battles in Guild Wars. However, as I play more and more WvW, it became dull for me. It’s now just a place to farm karma and some experience.

Really… What is the point? No satisfying rewards, player vs door fights, zerg zerg zerg, no defending the towers, capture-lose-capture and lose again and capture again… Why are we capturing? Why are we defending? It became repetitive.

Also people doesn’t care about defending towers, since they can cap it again easily and gain more experience.

This is not World vs World anymore. This is becoming to be just a capture race…

Crawford.4135:

ArenaNET does not want players to be rewarded for losing or winning — it’s more about jumping in and enjoying their game.

That said, the WvW Orb situation has in fact killed WvW for me. I was a heavy, heavy WvW until the Orb hacking and buffing destroyed the balance. (now that I have mentioned “Orb” within this thread, no developer will touch it with a reply — guaranteed)

your post is quite possibly the most depressing things i have ever read because of how truthful it is I never thought of it that way..

what if you’re right.. what if AN’s silence and blind-eye to wuvwuv is because of their policy of not wanting to reward its playerbase

ARGH !!! god i hope you’re not right but i feel like i got punched in the gut

all this time i keep thinking ArenaNET simply does not care about wuvwuv but your perspective screams true.. they do not want their players rewarded at all WvWvW is something to jump into and enjoy playing.. it was never meant to be the hardcore battlefield we have all turned it into

I pray you are wrong but afraid that you may just have hit the crux of it all

Nightcapping!

Nightcapping is the point of WvW.

Cus right now, It’s the only strategy that matter in any mathup. !!evil look at you arenanet

ok cool, new matchup? s1 v s2 v s3, great. Server 3 got a nightcapping team you say? They win. there is no but. They will straight out win, shut up rambo and Chuck Norris even tho s1 and s2 got you on their team playing charr’s, you wont win. no chance. nightcapping team man.. Wvgate. Nothing else matters.

Yeah WvW got alot of issues atm… I do have faith tho.

There is a major imbalance in incentive and rewards to participate. Before I go on though, I’ll preface this with that I still actively participate in all aspects of WvWvW despite what I’m about to say.

What I mean is this:
You get Exp, Money, and Karma every 3 minutes you defend a location. Even if you are fighting a losing battle, those are able to be dragged out a long time. You get rewarded ONCE for assaulting, and the reward is not substantially larger than a single defense reward. Additionally, you get NOTHING if you fail (even if you assailed the tower for half an hour) which means any repair bills from deaths comes right out of your pocket.
So looking at a half hour siege, the defenders get Event rewards 10 times. Even if the offense is victorious, they still only get one slightly larger reward. There usually isn’t much of a reward in terms of player kills either, since it’s obvious when a location is beyond hope the defenders have the option of backing off and dropping combat status so they can safely waypoint away.

If you want to gain something from WvW, it is way more lucrative to either roam the map accomplishing lesser objectives or only defend. As a plus, you also don’t need to spend money on expensive siege equipment.
Offense and capping locations is the force that drives WvW, so why is it the one that is least rewarding?

I love WvW for the very fact that it can be anything you want.

Wanna seige?
Zerg?
Defend. I’m sure there will be plenty of opportunities.
Run with a small group to cap supply? Done.
Kill stragglers? Yup.

Here are some things you haven’t mentioned:

Puzzle pvp: Small scale, awesome pvp environment with obstacles, water and darkness – had a great 1v1 with another player in the pitch black after we both dropped our torches. All I could see was his tag. Fun times.

Waylay rezzers: Position yourself to kill the rezzers as they run back to the main fight. You can hold up quite a number of people and make them forget about their main objective if you have a sturdy kiting class.

Artillery: I hate doing this during long seiges, but some people apparently dig this role.

Supply defence: Set up artillery with a small group inside a defensible supply area within enemy territory and watch the larger enemy mill about unable to engage while you keep giving them bloody noses.

And when you are on either side of a siege, be creative. Go out of combat for a moment and swap out your skillset. Don’t feel like you have to sit on the battlements as a warrior with your rifle doing spitball damage to single targets.

Most of all I like to challenge myself and get better at my class.

etc, etc

^ what Sarrow said – I’ve told my friends many times, even if WvW was all GW2 had to offer I would have probably still bought it

Make ArenaNet richer. Only 1 point of WvW. And support nightcapper loosers. They cant take win in prime time – so ArenaNet allow them win when no any defenders. Becouse they more importanly then other players.

@Sarrow.2785 – agreed with you man. Occasional 1v1 encounter are amazing.
I had 1v1 against IoJ player this Saturday. I was trying to solo weather nodes, then that guy come by and attack me. I had fun underwater 1v1 combat. Then the fight ended on land. I down first, and he also down soon after. We threw rock each other and I died. Then that nice guy entertained me with a dance

What’s the point of playing any PvP non-MMO game? Like Quake? Or StreetFighter 2?

And don’t give me that BS about “Well, this is an MMO, and MMO’s need progression…” There’s no stone tablets from God that says MMO’s need to be this or that. GW2 can adopt the progression model from Quake and SF2 (ie. none) if it wants. (to be strictly accurate, you still get personal rewards of money, xp, karma, etc.)

People play competitive games because they enjoy competitive gameplay. If you’re not enjoying the basic gameplay of WvW, then complain about that instead. Rather than, “There’s no progression carrot here to keep me doing this thing that I don’t enjoy.”

Personally I wonder what ANet thinks of the current state of WvW play. Does it match their intended vision?

I think problems include the mindless zerg assaults and the fact that players on losing servers quickly give up, leading to a snowball effect of quitting. Both involve player behaviour.

I think ANet should redesign the incentives and information given to players to encourage them to:
A. Spread out and fight over the whole map rather than form a massive zerg.
B. Continue to participate even if their server is losing.

The point of WvW for me is just the sheer fun of it. Yes it has issues, but they affect everyone equally so I don’t really feel cheated unless there’s some exploiting going on.

It helps that I have two 80s now and can swap between the different playstyles as I like. Working on a third 80 on the side as well, which means more variety to look forward to down the line.

I also play WvW for the sheer fun of it.

And i for one would like to comend Anet for their stance on PvP progression. Sure there are issues but i have every faith that these will be addressed.
But its refreshing to actualy play an MMO and PvP where gear isnt the overriding factor.

When i played RIFT i actively dueled guys in my guild, there where some players that couldnt take me below 80% when we where in the same gear. I come back from work 2 weeks later (i work on an oil rig) and the same guys now have PvP gear and beat me every fight…. that is BS when gear > skill.

Once a few issues have been sorted out in this game im sure it will shine through for all the cassual / hardcore players. The guys that scream for progression in PvP are the unemplyed who sit 12-16 hrs infront of their PC to get rank 8 purples and then camp areas and grief ppl higher skill caps than them… when everyone is rank 8 then they scream on the forums for a new rank 12 with new weapons etc so they get another 2 months of invincibility lol.

A crutch is a crutch whether its made of gold or kitten