Guild Wars 2

I want to like it. I join in about once a day for a bit. However, after I upgrade something like a camp fully, and then see one or two people able to take the camp as if it was never upgraded, I ask myself why I just wasted my coin. I certainly will not do it again, there is little point.

When I logged off last night my server was not doing all that well but we at least had all of the nodes on our borderlands. I log in today and we have a few camps and one tower. That is it out of all the maps. Again I ask myself. Why did I waste a couple hours in WvWvW last night? In that time I got 3 badges, wasted a little over a gold on upgrades (a lot for a leveling player), and wasted time I could have spent leveling and working on things that are more lasting.

It isn’t the winning vs losing that I have a problem with. In PvP there will always be both. What I have an issue with is that there is very little consequence for winning or losing. This makes everything that takes place in between meaningless for the most part.

For some reason I do not even level as quickly in WvWvW as I did at release. This just adds another log onto the “why am I here” fire. Couple that with very little loot for the time spent and I am left scratching my head as to why I should continue to participate.

I find WvWvW entertaining however I would compare it to a movie that I go see. It is enjoyable for a couple hours but I am not going to pay full price to go see it again. I already know the ending.

Beeeeeeeeeecause it’s fun? You already said you find it entertaining. If you only like doing it for a few hours, then just do it for a few hours. Not everything you play has to have a reward system to buy your time. You play games because they’re fun.

Though, I will agree with you on the “no consequences of losing or winning” thing. The other day someone asked me “What happens when we lose?” And I was like “Uhhhhh. Nothing, really. We just don’t move up on a list.” I do wish that there was SOME form of motivator other than a generic leaderboard system. Which is totally hypocritical for me to say, since I just told you that if it’s fun then it doesn’t matter lol. But yeaaaaaaaaahh….. Granted, they’re throwing in abilities and stuff you earn from doing good in WvW in March, so maybe that’ll kind of give us something to work towards.

It is up to you to give it a point. To some it’s not their thing; so they end up doing pve/pvp/dungeons.

For me, it’s what I do most of the time. I like it. I like talking to people and communicating and organizing with players. It’s something that pve/dungeons lack.

Just know what you can do in wvw. It might be helping the ppl take something, or organizing strategies.

wdspeck.8723:

Beeeeeeeeeecause it’s fun? You already said you find it entertaining. If you only like doing it for a few hours, then just do it for a few hours. Not everything you play has to have a reward system to buy your time. You play games because they’re fun.

Though, I will agree with you on the “no consequences of losing or winning” thing. The other day someone asked me “What happens when we lose?” And I was like “Uhhhhh. Nothing, really. We just don’t move up on a list.” I do wish that there was SOME form of motivator other than a generic leaderboard system. Which is totally hypocritical for me to say, since I just told you that if it’s fun then it doesn’t matter lol. But yeaaaaaaaaahh….. Granted, they’re throwing in abilities and stuff you earn from doing good in WvW in March, so maybe that’ll kind of give us something to work towards.

BS WvW should have a comparable reward system as pve, pve is fun too and you are rewarded. don’t try to make that excuse we know better and deserve equal rewards that our pve counterparts enjoy.

Honestly, I like running around with my guildies and take on bigger groups and wipe them (OMG LOOTBAGS)

The coordination is the other part, it is always nice to have another organised guild on that map that can do their own thing. Up until I joined a guild that coordinated I thought WvW wasn’t fun

The point of WvW is to take objectives, and hold them long enough to get points for them. That’s why WvW has a scoreboard. All the rest is secondary.

The trick is to figure out which objectives can be taken (and defended) with the forces available. This changes constantly.

If you’re new to WvW, don’t worry about upgrades. As you’ve seen, money spent on upgrades is wasted if the upgraded objectives aren’t defended. And defense is widely regarded to be “boring”, so relatively few players focus on it.

So, focus on offense for now. Find out where the zerg is, and stay with them. When you’ve spent enough time taking objectives to understand which upgrades slow down the zerg (and by how much) you’ll be in a better position to guess which upgrades are worth buying (because they can help you successfully defend an objective) and which upgrades are a waste of coin.

-ken

I keep hoping they implement a pvp dungeon doac style. You only have access to the dungeon if your server controls certain aspects in wvw. Would make things interesting and give players an incentive.

The Goat.1940:

wdspeck.8723:

Beeeeeeeeeecause it’s fun? You already said you find it entertaining. If you only like doing it for a few hours, then just do it for a few hours. Not everything you play has to have a reward system to buy your time. You play games because they’re fun.

Though, I will agree with you on the “no consequences of losing or winning” thing. The other day someone asked me “What happens when we lose?” And I was like “Uhhhhh. Nothing, really. We just don’t move up on a list.” I do wish that there was SOME form of motivator other than a generic leaderboard system. Which is totally hypocritical for me to say, since I just told you that if it’s fun then it doesn’t matter lol. But yeaaaaaaaaahh….. Granted, they’re throwing in abilities and stuff you earn from doing good in WvW in March, so maybe that’ll kind of give us something to work towards.

BS WvW should have a comparable reward system as pve, pve is fun too and you are rewarded. don’t try to make that excuse we know better and deserve equal rewards that our pve counterparts enjoy.

I mean in terms of reasons to play. I’d love more rewards. But it’s not the reason I play WvW. As far as the “Why am I doing this” argument goes, I do it because it’s fun. Not because I get anything from it.

It’s fun. I spend the majority of my time in wvw. I almost make a couple gold or more a day doing it. You know those heavy, medium etc lootbags you pickup? You can sell those for several silver a pop. Combine that with a few node harvests and some captures…there’s no reason you can’t make money wvwing.

If you’re not into killing thinking enemies, capturing points and the general camaraderie, I think the updates they are bringing to wvw will have something for you. I know I’m looking forward to them.

What’s the point of PvE? My char has a legendary and the exact look I want for her, so is there any point in any part of the game for me left?

If you have fun, that’s what it’s about.
(Granted, i don’t do PvE anymore :p)

You have to decide whether the enjoyment is there for you or not. As far as the badges, join a party and get more drops.

“Play it because it is fun” is not a valid reason when the entire point is that WvWvW lacks lasting fun due to things I mentioned.

Apparently it’s “Server Pride” or something. I farmed (2k+) badges from when my server would control the puzzle regularly so I don’t really go there unless i need an emergency event/veteran for a daily.

Different people get different things out of WvW. For me there’s some immediate goals, successes and losses.

I enjoy playing in a Havoc group; 4 or 5 of us sneaking behind enemy lines to flip camps, and draw their forces.
I enjoy defending keeps or camps, manning the walls and the siege, and seeing the satisfaction of holding out against the attack
I enjoy running with a good commander in a large group, whether it’s besieging a tower or fighting a similar force in the open field, trying to keep with your server, whilst breaking up the opposition zerg
There’s the tactical play as well; feints and bluffs, yak attacks to starve a tower of supply; dummy catapults to draw out defenders, trying to sneak golums across the map without being spotted

WvW is, however a long game. You will win camps and towers, and lose them, and win and lose over and over. There is an ebb and flow in the maps, and the final consequence is the PPT. Come Friday who held their captured sites that bit longer? Who reclaimed their lost locations that bit faster?

Sure there are good times and bad. Running on a map where commanders are at crossed wires and the opposition are wiping the floor with you is disconcerting. Loosing a camp, or tower, or even garrison when you’d just upgraded is painfully disheartening. I’ve had evenings where I’ve ragequit the map at the frustration of our failures, yet we log in the next day and we go full on honeybadger and claim it all back.

What’s the point of WvW? Well it’s different things for different people. for me it’s lots of different ways to have fun with friends

I just like to fight people, and sPVP is lame because my characters don’t get to use any of the gear it took me so long to acquire. That’s why I like WvW, but seriously, its a lot more fun when people are organized, if they are not organized it’s no fun at all.

Cazio.2137:

“Play it because it is fun” is not a valid reason when the entire point is that WvWvW lacks lasting fun due to things I mentioned.

Obviously, WvW in its current incarnation just isnt for you!

Personally, I really do play to have fun. I have more fun in WvW than elsewhere in the game so I spend most of my time there.

That being said, I fully support implementing systems which can encourage those who want more from it and hopefully the March update (if it actually comes in March..) will start taking steps in that direction.

I think you just have to learn to accept that which you can’t change such as the fact that upgraded camps and structures will be flipped, unless your server has dominating coverage ‘roud the clock. Consider that your upgrades, more often than not, helped the greater cause. Upgraded camps normally mean more supplies delivered and quicker upgrades on structures which normally means you hold on to those structures longer, which means more points in your server’s favor.

I too sometimes get frustrated when my investments in upgrades, siege building, and time spent standing watch sometimes feel fruitless. I have learned to be somewhat judicious as to when and where I will upgrade, and I do take some nights off and just run with the zerg, getting as much loot as I can and spending little to nothing.

wdspeck.8723:

Beeeeeeeeeecause it’s fun?

So much THIS!! its fun. I don’t need the badges, the bags of loot and rewards for completing events pays for a few repairs bills. But I still play WvW 90% of the time. Having duels, being part of large sieges – its all great fun.

That’s why we play games in the first place, if its not fun then its work and you’re doing it wrong.

I used to see this type of thread all the time when I played WoW, people want rewards all the time. gimme, gimme, gimme. Not saying that having a few rewards isn’t bad, and having a long term goal is also good. BUT its when you start demanding rewards to make it fun is when you are missing the point altogether.

Tuluum.9638:

Cazio.2137:

“Play it because it is fun” is not a valid reason when the entire point is that WvWvW lacks lasting fun due to things I mentioned.

Obviously, WvW in its current incarnation just isnt for you!

Personally, I really do play to have fun. I have more fun in WvW than elsewhere in the game so I spend most of my time there.

That being said, I fully support implementing systems which can encourage those who want more from it and hopefully the March update (if it actually comes in March..) will start taking steps in that direction.

Or judging by these forums a lot more than just me.

Thobek.1730:

wdspeck.8723:

Beeeeeeeeeecause it’s fun?

So much THIS!! its fun. I don’t need the badges, the bags of loot and rewards for completing events pays for a few repairs bills. But I still play WvW 90% of the time. Having duels, being part of large sieges – its all great fun.

That’s why we play games in the first place, if its not fun then its work and you’re doing it wrong.

I used to see this type of thread all the time when I played WoW, people want rewards all the time. gimme, gimme, gimme. Not saying that having a few rewards isn’t bad, and having a long term goal is also good. BUT its when you start demanding rewards to make it fun is when you are missing the point altogether.

Ya, taking the same “camp” 20 times a day is so much “fun.” Especially when on top of that we can get very little xp or loot for it! Good times, great fun!

Killing other players and having fun on voice com, makes it for me and keeps me coming back even after a doll night/week

I think you’ve already figured out what the point of it is. It just has a problem with being too easy to flip for a format that’s supposed to last a week.

If taking towers required the amount of co-ordination that taking forts does now, and taking forts / Stonemist required a pre-planned offensive arranged by the community to pull off, I think the format would be more interesting. In other words, shift the balance heavily in favour of the defender.

At present, there is no guild pride in maintaining fortifications because it requires too much manpower and can be undone by a small team with a few catapults.

If you want to have something to work towards in WvW, you have to be coordinating with everyone on your map, playing as a team. Getting one camp may not be a big deal, but there is real satisfaction if that ends up with capturing a keep. Set goals as a group that you can work towards, be prepared to adjust them, and see the big picture, but don’t get too hung up over what happens after you log out.

The point of WvW is different from person to person.

For me personally, I go to WvW to PvP. There is nothing more to it. Capturing objectives is not important to me, unless it’s purpose is bait.

As long as I can get myself into a situation where my comrades and my skill is pushed to the limit to overcome odds that are stacked high against us, then I am satisfied with that day of WvW.

I choose to PvP in WvW because I find sPvP to be too restricting in builds, and I’m not overly fond of capturing points to win.

You’re going to find a lot of fans of WvW in the WvW thread, so it’s a good place to ask the question.

The point is that it’s fun! “How can you have fun? I don’t!” is what you say, so let’s have a discussion how you like to have fun? We can help see if you have a fit with WvW.

I do admit to having more fun at 80 than at 60 (the first time I went in). I also have more fun at 80 with my exotics and perfectly tweaked build to my play-style than I did on day-one as an 80 in rares. So to that end, WvW is a good “end-game” for those that don’t like dungeons.

Maybe it’s just not for you. By the same token, I’ve never been into a Fractal.

I do wish their was some progression (like vanity items, titles, etc).

It’s also a great source of karma. I make about 10k a night on top of daily completion.

If you like upgrading camps, a good idea is to also guard them and flip the NPC’s (like Moles, Ogres, Frogs).

I love to solo flip camps, but will not attempt it if there is someone guarding it, or if it’s guarded by NPC’s.

But to your point, guarding camps is not good for material rewards, in fact it’s a gold-sink. If you dont like that, certainly don’t become a commander— they spend several gold a day, on top of that 100g commander tag.

If you want to make money, go to Orr or Dungeons. If you want to make money in WvW, go flip enemy camps, kill guards, and kill yaks. Or run with the zerg.

If it’s boring for you to “flip the same stuff all night” then again you might just be in the wrong place. I love it. Eventually I get a group of 5 or so chasing me around their territory. I’ll go and contest their WP, then I’ll throw swords up on a camp, but run to the camp on the other side of the map and throw them off.

If they get too persistent, I go to the other opponent and do the same, then I flip “frogs” and run with the frogs back to the original teams camp and attack it with my personal army. Great fun!

And as a last word, WvW makes you better at your class. If i’m farming explorables or other PvE, it feels like slow motion compared to taking on 3-5 humans at once.

For me, Wvw creates random matchups with random players of random skill and random numbers under random conditions, ie terrain, openfield, siege, floor to floor battles in a keep, 1v1, etc. Often enough I get something I really have alot of fun with. WvW is way more of a challenge than Pve.

- Get a guild
- Use mapchat a lot
- Join your server website and other communication systems

Choose one or even all of them, it’s WvW and not PvW, connect with your community

EDIT: as for nightcapping… apparently Anet and almost everyone is ok with players who do PvDoor being rewarded in the same way as players that do actual PvP. I just deal with it since I’m there to kill people

Cazio.2137:

Tuluum.9638:

Cazio.2137:

“Play it because it is fun” is not a valid reason when the entire point is that WvWvW lacks lasting fun due to things I mentioned.

Obviously, WvW in its current incarnation just isnt for you!

Personally, I really do play to have fun. I have more fun in WvW than elsewhere in the game so I spend most of my time there.

That being said, I fully support implementing systems which can encourage those who want more from it and hopefully the March update (if it actually comes in March..) will start taking steps in that direction.

Or judging by these forums a lot more than just me.

Yup, that would be implied by “which can encourage those who want more from it.” Of course, it was me talking to you, so I said “you.”

The purpose is to fight many players all at once. I like it.

Cazio.2137:

I want to like it. I join in about once a day for a bit. However, after I upgrade something like a camp fully, and then see one or two people able to take the camp as if it was never upgraded, I ask myself why I just wasted my coin. I certainly will not do it again, there is little point.

When I logged off last night my server was not doing all that well but we at least had all of the nodes on our borderlands. I log in today and we have a few camps and one tower. That is it out of all the maps. Again I ask myself. Why did I waste a couple hours in WvWvW last night? In that time I got 3 badges, wasted a little over a gold on upgrades (a lot for a leveling player), and wasted time I could have spent leveling and working on things that are more lasting.

It isn’t the winning vs losing that I have a problem with. In PvP there will always be both. What I have an issue with is that there is very little consequence for winning or losing. This makes everything that takes place in between meaningless for the most part.

For some reason I do not even level as quickly in WvWvW as I did at release. This just adds another log onto the “why am I here” fire. Couple that with very little loot for the time spent and I am left scratching my head as to why I should continue to participate.

I find WvWvW entertaining however I would compare it to a movie that I go see. It is enjoyable for a couple hours but I am not going to pay full price to go see it again. I already know the ending.

Why do you play basketball (or softball or soccer or chess or even a video game)? Is it because of the recognition? Is it because it gets you laid? Is it because you get paid for it? Most likely you play it simply because you enjoy it … because you enjoy the competition and the feeling of satisfaction of being good at it (or getting better at it).

You do know that the levels you reach inside or outside WvW are meaningless, right? You do know that the gear you collect is virtual and can’t be hung up in your closet, right? You do know that nobody outside of the game gives a rat’s kitten about any of your in-game accomplishments, right?

If you can’t identify with the play style of WvW enough to enjoy it for its own sake go find something else that works for you … but don’t pretend that any of it is more fundamentally meaningful. It isn’t.

I’ve had my ups and downs with WvW. Sometimes I spent hours with the zerg and left with a feeling that I accomplished very little, despite taking and holding objects, other times I help fight in a loosing battle against a stronger opponent, and leave satisfied.

Some notes:
The experience gain from WvW can be pretty decent, both when running with the Zerg or when defending a keep.

Gear drops are rare, in particular for leveling players. This makes you fall behind in the item curve compared to when you level up in PvE. So I understand how it can feel unrewarding to WvW while leveling up.

You earn some server-wide boni, more if you perform well. So there is a reward!

To some extent you want to identify with your server, and want it to do well. It’s like amateur sports, you participate, you want to perform well, and maybe win, even though the rewards can be marginal to non-existent, and participating is as important as winning.

In the end it comes down to what others have said already: Do it because you enjoy doing it. If you don’t enjoy it, find something else, there is so much in this game after all.

The point use to be to take the enemies orbs, but now there really is no goal

Farming tears.

Cactus.2710:

If you can’t identify with the play style of WvW enough to enjoy it for its own sake go find something else that works for you … but don’t pretend that any of it is more fundamentally meaningful. It isn’t.

Yes. This.

I play it for the PvP mostly, the sPvP is way to restricted and the cramped maps don’t help either. Honestly the objectives don’t matter to me, they seem more PvE-ish, grindy and I absolutely hate the zerg. The only objective I care about is the keep in EB because that gives me access to the JP, where a lot of the good PvP happens.

To me the general purpose of WvW is to have fun, you don’t have to get caught in the drama and politics of the “community” on your server, you don’t owe anything to anyone. So don’t feel obligated to spend money on upgrades/blueprints. Just do what you enjoy.

Because it’s fun. Extremely fun at times. Pve may be rewarding but it’s very very boring for me. And what’s the point of getting ubber legendary item when you can just fear them off a cliff even when you are wearing blue gear? Try that, extremely fun

wdspeck.8723:

Cactus.2710:

If you can’t identify with the play style of WvW enough to enjoy it for its own sake go find something else that works for you … but don’t pretend that any of it is more fundamentally meaningful. It isn’t.

Yes. This.

This is it.

What is the point of WvW…?

-Peep’s enjoy fighting Human AI over Artificial scripted AI.
-Comraderie and Server unity.

The server rankings rewards itself are pretty much pointless as there is no gain from dominating T1 as opposed to Tier 1000…..

Kill germans and France players

What is the point of life?

If ANet begins to give rewards that give a player an edge on PvP just because he has more time to play than others. than this will be end game for me… what made me play this game is the fact that you dont need to play hours and hours a day to be competitive because gear is easy to get and is the same for everyone.

This game is focused on skill and fun, they must be very carefull when changing the reward system, I really hope it will not change the balance of the game (balance for gear).

What is the point of PvE? Killing the same mobs with the same combo’s over and over and over again.

What is the point of dungeons? Killing the same mobs on the same maps with the same skills and strategies all over and over and over again.

What is the point of first person shooters? Killing the same people on the same map over and over and over again.

You do it because it is fun and you are having fun in the process…

Cazio.2137:

I ask myself why I just wasted my coin. I certainly will not do it again, there is little point.

Why did I waste a couple hours in WvWvW last night? In that time I got 3 badges, wasted a little over a gold on upgrades (a lot for a leveling player), and wasted time I could have spent leveling and working on things that are more lasting.

This makes everything that takes place in between meaningless for the most part.

This just adds another log onto the “why am I here” fire.

I would compare it to a movie that I go see. It is enjoyable for a couple hours but I am not going to pay full price to go see it again. I already know the ending.

It sounds to me like you have already made up your mind. If you don’t enjoy WvW, don’t do it. It happens to be my favorite part of the game. Do I get rich with pretend money? No, but my toon is in full exotic gear (obtained completely through my WvW efforts) plus I have plenty of money for siege, repair bills, consumables and upgrades. I’m not sure what you want people to tell you here. If you don’t like something don’t do it!

Bottom line we need rewards for the things we do in WvW, currently few care if you upgrade a tower , if you take over 3 keeps a day , if you slaughter hundreds of enemy players , after awhile you ask why am I wasting all my gold here because the rewards are crap. Sure the game play can be fun (if your not fighting ghost vs. ghost zerg due to culling) but is game play alone enough for us to justify spending all our gold in WvW without very much in game reward, I think not as time goes on. Does beating your opponets in WvW , winning the match up even mean anything? I know our server has been stuck fighting the same servers for like a month now we always either placed 1st or 2nd and we still keep having to fight the same servers over and over again , with the point system being used for WvW theres no true progression , you can win and still be held down you can lose and still stay in the tier you lost in. Will I still keep playin WvW ? Yes! Will others with the same complaints , NO , they are gonna get burnt out. Give the masses a true reason to say I need to log into WvW tonight and youll see some intense bloody wars. Make bonuses for holding positions like 5 supply camps = + 30 magic / gold find for your team in WvW. Theres many rewards that COULD be given for taking and HOLDING objectives someone at ANET needs to provide deeper purpose for a long lasting WvW community.

I agree it should have better rewards, but it should be limited to gold, or pride rewards like titles, skins… I really expect that they dont give rewards that gives you an edge in combat.