Guild Wars 2

1.Toughness

Full rabid gear, ascended trinket, +20 in dead magic whit undead runes: 2800 armor necro. I get burned out for one ele whit about 3 seconds clearly hes is zerker.

So basically zerker>rabid?

what si the risk to be zerker when you clearly can bust dowm a player like that? Oh including all my force life (dead Shroud form).

im no QQing i just want a real discuss what toughness mean in comparative over a zerker player.

Depends on the classes and player skill. If it was an ele I would assume it was a s/d burst ele. You make 1 good dodge or stun and his chain is lost. Toughness makes a difference. Ask any thief that has fought a guardian.

Also if you want survivability mixing toughness and vitality is always better

is the same, any thief combo:
1.steal
2. cloak and dagger
3. Backstab
Is just 1 sec and take my hp from 22k to 10-9k everytime. Acording to GW2 logic, Backstab is (front, rear, back, up, down, inside , outside) every dimension.

PVT is right the best for survivability atm but, do we all have to be closed in the same circle in every build, gear, trinket just to survive a zerker player just because they can kill you in 1-2-3 combo?

Toughness is the power counterpart. If a player has equal toughness to another players power, they effectively cancel each other. Players sporting over 3k armor rarely see huge crit dmg either. Even the venerable Steal/CnD/BS will usually top out around 8k on heavy armor from a zerk thief (barring mitigating circumstances like heavy vuln, sub 50% players, etc).

kishter.9578:

Backstab is (front, rear, back, up, down, inside , outside) every dimension.

Base damage and multiplier is halved if not flanked. Backstab in this context isn’t literal as they are using it to mean surprise attack.

Toughness/vitality are only the start, gotta use your character skills to keep you up.

Toughness is kind of a joke because in GW2 damage is king. You’re better off being a big fat sack of hit points than stacking toughness.

1st:
Daggers ignore all armor (test you’ll see — not many players realize this, not even the developers realize)

2nd:
Toughness is simply stupid. ArenaNet should have placed flat out “Armor” in the game, not “Toughness = X Amount of Armor”. That’s just sugar coating crap with crap. Call it what it is: Armor, period.

3rd:
Armor, like Gennyt said: Toughness is a joke. Yes HP is nice, with some Toughness in the background. I can’t say which is best because honestly neither work well together — you give up too much of one or the other.

4th:
Dagger speed in this game is extremely fast (hopefully the speed will get nerfed). So no matter your Toughness, Armor or HP, in the end it only keeps you alive for a ‘tad’ longer. You only delay the inevitable.

5th:
Read number 2 again

i notice, Armor/toughness is just a delay fact to the inevitable down state from any zerker player.

Crawford.4135:

1st:
Daggers ignore all armor (test you’ll see — not many players realize this, not even the developers realize)

Wait, what?

Cant tell if serious or trolling. So if i had some dagger wielder(i dont care pick a class, thief, ele) beat on a char with 1600 toughness and 0 armour for 20mins his average damage would be the same if he was beating on a char with 1600 tough and 2000 armour?

That makes no sense at all.

Dunno if this about dagger ignoring armor is true, but armor/toughness is useful. The idea behind it is that every toughness you add after the base value mitigates a % of the damage received. I dont really remember how to do the math by hand, but websites such as buildcraft http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ do that for you.

If you look closely on the website there is something called Effective Health (EHP) which is you HP multiplied by your toughness bonus. If you are not a burst build, you should aim to have at least 21k.

In another topic, i find it pretty hard to get burst down by eles. If they are going scepter/dagger, its usually pretty easy to spot and dodge their giant fire fang thingy, which is a good deal of their dmg.

EDIT: i dont think its hard to get killed by a ele, i just think its hard to get bursted by them

21k Health or 21k Effective Health?

at least 21k effective health. That’s the minimum i aim for when wearing light armor. Websites such as buildcraft are vrey nice because they allow you to change vitality armor into toughness or the other way around to try and get the best EHP you can. Putting everything in vit or toughness is worst than a mix of the two.

Crawford.4135:

1st:
Daggers ignore all armor (test you’ll see — not many players realize this, not even the developers realize)

2nd:
Toughness is simply stupid. ArenaNet should have placed flat out “Armor” in the game, not “Toughness = X Amount of Armor”. That’s just sugar coating crap with crap. Call it what it is: Armor, period.

3rd:
Armor, like Gennyt said: Toughness is a joke. Yes HP is nice, with some Toughness in the background. I can’t say which is best because honestly neither work well together — you give up too much of one or the other.

4th:
Dagger speed in this game is extremely fast (hopefully the speed will get nerfed). So no matter your Toughness, Armor or HP, in the end it only keeps you alive for a ‘tad’ longer. You only delay the inevitable.

5th:
Read number 2 again

This post is completely wrong at least based on my experience and understanding of the damage calculation.

1. Daggers do not ignore armor. In fact there is no “dagger” damage in the game as all damage is done from a skill.

2. Armor is comprised of toughness. One point of toughness adds one point of armor. The armor calculation is ridiculously simple and how it reduces damage is also extremely simple.

3. Toughness reduces direct damage by a percentage so it scales well against power builds. Toughness also makes healing more effective. The only place vitality clearly wins out is condition, falling damage and spike damage not based on power.

4. There is no dagger speed or any weapon speed in the game. Weapons have skills relative to the class that is using them. The five dagger skills for a thief are going to be different than an elementalist.

As a Thief (albeit not a good one), Armor/Toughness does make a difference, at least in WvW. I do considerably LESS damage when critting/backstabbing (one of the few times during a fight that I’ll actually notice my damage output) vs. someone is Heavy Armor vs. Med/Light. I’m hitting for about 20% less damage on crits.

Guardians are some of the worst to go up against… but then again, a lot of it has to deal with their various weapon skills and utilities. Necros actually rank up there in terms of tanky careers to take down (mainly since they have so much Vitality and Death Shroud) and their condition damage which WILL melt my Berserker Thief.

And a note about Berserker geared characters, we are made of glass. Running around with 12.8k Health (all Berserker minus 1 Valkyrie gear) means I literally MELT when Necros pop Staff AOEs right on top of themselves (hey, gotta get close for a backstab right?), or some of their other effects.

Learn the weaknesses of Berserker gear, and fully take advantage of that against glass cannon builds. And worse comes to worse, as a Necro, don’t tank it in front, but weave in after most of your group charges into a battle then pick and choose your targets while supporting your teammates. =)

Crawford.4135:

1st:
Daggers ignore all armor (test you’ll see — not many players realize this, not even the developers realize)

Successful troll is successful.