Guild Wars 2

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I play a Thief in tPvP very well. Which is specifically why I had no idea how it was in stealth for so long.

Now my problem is that Necromancer takes a long time to build up a burst, revealed is not nearly long enough to capitalize on that.

By the way, since you’re such an enormous help and not at all an elitist **** Kstudios, let me reiterate: I am not calling for a nerf on Thieves, since I know too little about how they play in WvW to make that call. I am asking if there is a viable strategy to beating them as Necro in WvW, since it felt like I was at a disadvantage from the start.

I’m actually sorry you took it that way. I do apologize, as I feel it’s necessary, but I do not mince words, I do not sugarcoat anything. I call things as I see them. That was basically my way of telling you I would not consider solo-roaming in WvW a viable option as a necro and expect a long healthy life. What I stated was no less true. I have never lost a match to a roaming necro. Closest I ever got was one that took overall well over five minutes and ended with us both being downed and throwing stuff at one another to in hopes of killing and rallying. The deal breaker, it was my ranger, she has Lick Wounds, he didn’t. So I didn’t need to worry one way or another. I do know he used the skill, Death Shroud I believe it’s called, which acts basically as a secondary health bar. I do recommend putting that to use. As stated, I’ve seen a lot of necros also do great things as team support. So were I you I’d set my build and gear with that in mind.

I do also point out, I was most impressed with the fellow in question, and probably would not have even finished him had his fellows in a small zerg not been bearing down on me from afar. In that instance, I did salute him after death, before quickly fleeing the scene. I knew his people would stop to rez him before coming after me, so I chose my life over his yet again.

Zumy.6318:

Now tell me how it will feel to walk through 7 fields that stack 2 confusions on you instantly (->14) every time you walk in or out, walking over portal exit and entrance that will stack 4 confusions on you for each mesmer, getting projectile finishers on you that will stack another 8 stacks of confusions on you. And all of this time you will be permablinded and stuff.

If you ever actually had this happen to you, you’re simply the worst WvW player in existence. Triggering the confusion when you have 25 stacks on you instead of waiting until it wears off is even more stupid. And triggering it again after you were hit for 10k damage for the first time is the zenith of stupidity.

Like one of the repliers said use AoE damage. It’s your friend. One of the tactics I use on my Engineer is magnet pull and prybar. Also I nice thing to do is shadowstep so he wastes his skills on that. One of the things that theives like to do is backstab. When you see one run and drop some AoE conditions behind yourself as you run and turn around and face him and nuke right as you turn around. So many times I’ve skilled a theif after they have cloaked from nuking them.

Iruwen.3164:

Zumy.6318:

Now tell me how it will feel to walk through 7 fields that stack 2 confusions on you instantly (->14) every time you walk in or out, walking over portal exit and entrance that will stack 4 confusions on you for each mesmer, getting projectile finishers on you that will stack another 8 stacks of confusions on you. And all of this time you will be permablinded and stuff.

If you ever actually had this happen to you, you’re simply the worst WvW player in existence. Triggering the confusion when you have 25 stacks on you instead of waiting until it wears off is even more stupid. And triggering it again after you were hit for 10k damage for the first time is the zenith of stupidity.

Zumy you should feel bad if this has ever happened to you.

in Tpvp the point is to hold a spot and cap it. (cant hold or cap while in stealth)
WvW there is no such thing so a thief can freely and constantly stealth and heal without hurting the server/group and wait to burst you down.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

tl;dr – My build is incredibly strong against thieves and generally all players in tPvP. But this… this was just stupid.

I love all the qqing about thieves.

A lot being able to beat a thief is having a solo/small group build. I have a spec that can own most any thief. Has ton of cc. In anoth spec I can kill most of them if they don’t run as I don’t have the needed cc to stop them

Hello fellow tPvP necro! anyways, i main a necro in tpvp and recently in wvw, and I think I can help out. If youre running a power build with wells and stuff for zerg fighting theres not much you can do. Thieves in wvw are very cheesy and will run out of combat relatively far and get out of combat before getting you again, and you wont have many cooldowns to make them go away again, any noob spamming heartseeker will probably kill you. anyways, if youre running a kind of rabid build with alot of cc theyre easy prey.
Basically Staff, Scepter,Warhorn, use corrupt boon and spectral walk to play with them, you can even use flesh golem. The trick is to chain cc them long enough to apply all the bleeds you can, and do it again if necesary. The main problem with this would be that youre no longer as effective in zergs, but it is a GREAT roaming build (no one should be able to 1v1 you in your necro).
Good luck hunting thieves!

Rezz.8019:

1. Thief is supposed to be the strongest 1v1 class, so you’re not supposed to beat an equally skilled thief player with your necro or anything else.
2. Thief takes full damage while invisible.
3. Fix your build.

This is coming from champion shadow/champion phantom, etc. player who wins 90% of necro vs thief, or thief vs necro duels.

Also… why would you go 1v1 in WvW?

um, I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen Anet come up with that statement that thieves should win 1v1, I’m pretty sure you jsut made that up.

Iruwen.3164:

Zumy.6318:

Now tell me how it will feel to walk through 7 fields that stack 2 confusions on you instantly (->14) every time you walk in or out, walking over portal exit and entrance that will stack 4 confusions on you for each mesmer, getting projectile finishers on you that will stack another 8 stacks of confusions on you. And all of this time you will be permablinded and stuff.

If you ever actually had this happen to you, you’re simply the worst WvW player in existence. Triggering the confusion when you have 25 stacks on you instead of waiting until it wears off is even more stupid. And triggering it again after you were hit for 10k damage for the first time is the zenith of stupidity.

L2P, if you are on an ele/ranger/guardian/mesmer, any class with “on dodge” traits, and get stacked with 10 stacks instantly while already pushing dodge, you trigger it twice.
When my team runs confusionbomb we will put you under such big pressure, that you will have to use skills. Either confusion or not doing anything will kill you. And that is the problem about confusion. Having to wait until it wears off. You can’t even dodge. Its not like HGH engies cannot keep at least 5 stacks on you permanently. Mesmers even more.
And acutally it has never happened to me, but I have used it to crash much bigger numbers than we had.
Think about something before calling anything or anybody stupid.
It is utterly easy to corner a zerg and confusionbomb it. Specíally after the changes on Mesmer scepter 3.

You should feel bad about that comment, because it is no demonstration of having ever played in a competitive group.

I switched to T8 to avoid bad zergballers like you are.
If you outnumber your enemies 5: 1 all the time, no wonder you can"AE them to hell", ignoring confusion.
Who was talking about 1 mesmer only anyway. its not like you cannot burst glamours on several.
This why I mentioned that you never played in a competitive setup anyway.
Try The Tainted on Piken Square. Bring your zerg and just try.
Every skill you use will get you more conditions because of chaosarmor (permanently) on everybody and the pink bubble will stack in dozens upon you.

Iruwen.3164:

The fact that you’re maining thief and ele (!) and switched to T8 makes me laugh even harder.

This coming from a mesmer that keeps defending confusion as “not op” everywhere is hilarious. Moar plz.

And yes, when in a fight its normal to click pause and switch food. Don’t forget so save in the meantime. Just in case you get killed.
Closed topic for me. You have no idea of the potential of you main character.

Same here, you just have no clue.

Judging from this screenshot:

https://d1ej19d7kwigfi.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/3405/gw002.jpg

You dont even WvW much. And judging from things you said in German threads, you dont even know how to stack confu properly, or bomb with it.
It is normal, that you get aggressive over me saying that the build you play is OP, if you dont manage to master it yourself.
That is probably also the reason why you never played in a competitive setup, getting to know the true potential of a coordinated confusionbomb.

How do you want to know if he plays WvW much from that Screenshot? You only can tell he is not doing sPvP(oh reminds me I am Dolyak soon lol… played a lot from glory rank 8 to almost 20 the last 1-2 weeks only).

Or does that shield icon showing the WvW kills also change if you play more? (I am not playing much for me the bar in that icon is very low lol … but can’t be the bar because you can not see it in his screen).

Also:
@all: Play sPvP and not this kittenty crappy boring WvW. Ha ha.

The shield shows he had very few kills in WvW (1,000- 3,000). Playing Glamourmesmer I got 1 thousand kills in less than a week.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_vs_World_

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Account_Medals

@luthan…there is a similar thread in mesmer forum

Go there and you’ll understand why he should be ignored…..

Short story…we are talnking about nothing…

Want to know if current confusion is OP or not? look at organized WWW guilds and their forums….if you have access to one…you will find plenty of documentation on how to use it.

Its not about mesmers alone…and its not about stop moving…its not pvp.

If you are stacked by a glamourmesmer, basically even breathing will kill you.
Close quarters with HGH engi is even worse because he will cc the crap out of you and even using a stunbreaker will kill you.
Swap to water and dodge = dead.
So what does an elementalist do if he cannot even swap attunements withoug getting 7-10k dps?

I thought the topic was closed for you? I don’t play much, actually didn’t login for a few weeks. Doesn’t say anything about my skill, but nice stalking attempt. And I don’t know what you read, maybe you should have looked here where I said “Confusion is good for two things, bombing zergs and thwarting enemies.” I know exactly how glamour and ethereal fields work. And I know that these capabilities aren’t op, unless the enemy is mindless.

PS: if you know you’ll be running into a glamour bombing zerg – adapt. You’re simply refusing to do so, which is your fault alone.

Zumy.6318:

Close quarters with HGH engi is even wors because he will cc the crap out of you and even using a stunbreaker will kill you.
Swap to water and dodge = dead.

While you’re reading my posts, I said several times that Pry Bar needs a review, dunno why it was buffed in February, and that confusion shouldn’t trigger on dodge.

And that is exactly what I said. You did not even realize that I am not talking about me, but confusion in the current meta.
The current meta is zerging. I dont do zergs.
Thats why I went to Dzagonur, because of the more skilled opponents, less zerg and BNF.

Still in a 5vs5 confusion is an extremely powerful weapon to shut you opponent team down.
They wont die from confusionticks if they are good. But they wont do any burst in the meantime. If you ever played in competitive WvW environment you’d know this.

Zumy.6318:

Try The Tainted on Piken Square. Bring your zerg and just try.
Every skill you use will get you more conditions because of chaosarmor (permanently) on everybody and the pink bubble will stack in dozens upon you.

Lol Dreddz be loving those ethereal fields! You should have seen him in Warhammer with his auras; The man is simply a menace !

Iruwen.3164:

Zumy.6318:

Close quarters with HGH engi is even wors because he will cc the crap out of you and even using a stunbreaker will kill you.
Swap to water and dodge = dead.

and that confusion shouldn’t trigger on dodge.

Are you serious?
We are talking about confusion as it is and not how you would like it to be. And as it is, it kills you at dodging. As it is it is too strong.

→ you dont dodge, you eat burst.

Don’t try to distract, it doesn’t matter if I direct this at you personally or “at the current meta”, if you insist on using that phrase. Dzago has been our (i.e. Drakkar’s) opponent often enough, I know exactly how they play(ed).

sephire.7296:

Zumy.6318:

Try The Tainted on Piken Square. Bring your zerg and just try.
Every skill you use will get you more conditions because of chaosarmor (permanently) on everybody and the pink bubble will stack in dozens upon you.

Lol Dreddz be loving those ethereal fields! You should have seen him in Warhammer with his auras; The man is simply a menace !

I played against them on Karak Norn. Only managed to have one 6vs6 though and both zergs added it. But always good to fight The Tainted. They know their business.

thieves are just so OP. I wish they can have montly nerfs of thieves to even it out for misc players.

Iruwen.3164:

Don’t try to distract, it doesn’t matter if I direct this at you personally or “at the current meta”, if you insist on using that phrase. Dzago has been our (i.e. Drakkar’s) opponent often enough, I know exactly how they play(ed).

I dont give a darn about what you know. I dont join zergs, I play small scale in roaming teams. So I care for the playerbase of my opponents, not my server. Shush, zergling, shush.

Zumy.6318:

Iruwen.3164:

Zumy.6318:

Close quarters with HGH engi is even wors because he will cc the crap out of you and even using a stunbreaker will kill you.
Swap to water and dodge = dead.

and that confusion shouldn’t trigger on dodge.

Are you serious?
We are talking about confusion as it is and not how you would like it to be. And as it is, it kills you at dodging. As it is it is too strong.

-> you dont dodge, you eat burst.

You’re really trying too hard now. Try making some useful proposals instead of just being aggressive.
That’s why it shouldn’t trigger on dodge. Apart from that, it isn’t too strong. Not making it trigger on dodge and reviewing the capabilities that instantly apply longlasting high stacks, possibly combined with might (say HGH/Pry Bar) would resolve some problems that are obvious. Confusion is meant to act as some kind of timed interrupt, that shouldn’t affect dodging.

Zumy.6318:

I dont give a darn about what you know. I dont join zergs, I play small scale in roaming teams. So I care for the playerbase of my opponents, not my server. Shush, zergling, shush.

Yeah, come show us your real face. It’s getting more and more ridiculous.

I just checked….Necros have no reflect or block skills
I play Mesmer and every time one of these thiefs goes invisible I pop Illusionary Counter.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Counter
Even though it didn’t say it in the description, I’m pretty sure it, after the block, reflects about 50-75% of the dmg you blocked, which in most cases will result in a “soon to be downed” thief.

What are you trying? You called me stupid for no reason because I stated that your build is OP, as it is.
Now stop yapping at me, I dont care about your trakittenalk.

“…, confusion as it should be isn’t that strong, …”
“Confusion is meant to…”
“…shouldn’t affect”

Are these even arguments?

But it is like that, and being like that it is utterly overpowered combined with aoe blinds and chaosarmor.
You insulted me without hesitating because you think of confusion as you would like to have it.
You are being ridiculous!

Ok let’s end this (honestly), it doesn’t lead anywhere except for bad blood and is getting out of hand somehow. Let’s get this back to an objective level, I apologize for anything offending I may have said. We just have different opinions here. I think confusion appliance/triggering should be tweaked, you want it to be changed (damage reduction?) in general, let’s just leave it at that.

There is no way of avoiding confusiondamage besides not using any skill (what will get you killed in a close fight) or having somebody without it cleansing it off you.
Every single other source of damage can be avoided without risking death.

In my eyes if it is to work like that, it should be increased in damage (f.g. 700-1,5k) per tick but only stacked in duration, not multipliers.
Imagine a ranger giving you stacks of burning…

Must be really confusing to have skills that usually do no damage harm you because you are consused. Ha ha. Makes no sense to me. I think they should change it and make it like in some other games where the confused char just runs around and randomly attacks himself and his allies with auto attack and then damage taken the same amount an enemy would take from that auto attack.

Would be much better than die from “nothing” while dodging.

Would be fun if they made this into a movie lol. Someone dodging and then he instantly dies. Makes no sense.

If he is using his sword and swings it around randomly(because he is confused) and sometimes hits himself… that would make more sense.

Edit:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Confusion
" A character that is confused will be unable to distinguish friend from foe, and will sometimes attack his or her own allies. It is even possible for a confused character to target himself/herself with a spell while confused."
This is how confusion should work.

Iruwen.3164:

I thought the topic was closed for you? I don’t play much, actually didn’t login for a few weeks.

Did you play since the new changes on scepter? Scepter 3 now gives 5 stacks of confusion to up to 5 people. Imagine the carnage of 4 mesmers assisting on one target. 20 stacks on 5 people without even shattering or popping pink bubbles.

Luthan.5236:

Would be fun if they made this into a movie lol. Someone dodging and then he instantly dies. Makes no sense.

Tried to dodge and broke his neck.

Mighty Ice Arrow.9268:

Roll Ranger.
Kill them all.
Mate I can’t care less about your problems, you are worried with 1v1 in WWW, I hope you arn’t in SFR, if you are, get back to PvP as soon as you can.

Go back to our matchup thread and stay out of this thread if you don’t have anything constructive to say don’t say it at all.

Nowhere in WvW is 1v1 avoidable unless you stick to a blob like glue wait till everyone wipes and respawn with the blob, there are times you may have to respawn and have to make it alone to regroup with your raid and run the gauntlet of enemy thieves on the way offering them a welcomed distraction from their routine slaughtering of Dolyaks and sentries.

Stealth and Confusion are poorly designed, Necro badly needs some buffs on some areas. That’s all.

Anatolian Turk.4057:

If thats not QQing then i dont know what is.

There isn’t much you seem to know then.

Zumy.6318:

Every single other source of damage can be avoided without risking death.

Hm, Bleed, Poison and Burn tick no matter what if they aren’t cleansed though. Standing still, going away, hiding doesn’t help with these. And burn ticks at ~1000dps. 25 stacks of bleed tick for more than 4000dps while it’s quite easy to keep them at a long duration at the same time. Poison only ticks for 334dps, but then there’s the side effect of reduced heal efficiency.
Major difference probably is that these are harder to apply to larger groups though, that’s what I’d work on, see below.

In my eyes if it is to work like that, it should be increased in damage (f.g. 700-1,5k) per tick but only stacked in duration, not multipliers.

Didn’t think about side effects, may work. But wouldn’t that actually make it even easier to keep it on zergs permanently? Somebody had a similar idea, but instead of stacking duration, one stack should wear off per skill use. That would still give you the option of either waiting until it wears off or removing it by triggering it, and you could cleanse it without taking the 10k damage 20 stacks may cause as of now. They may have to tweak some other skills so it remains a viable build for 1vs1, but it generally sounds like it could work out quite well.

Zumy.6318:

Did you play since the new changes on scepter? Scepter 3 now gives 5 stacks of confusion to up to 5 people. Imagine the carnage of 4 mesmers assisting on one target. 20 stacks on 5 people without even shattering or popping pink bubbles.

Yeah, but it’s supposed to be three people just like GS 1. If it’s actually five, then it’s bugged. Imo that’s fine because the channel can be interrupted and dodged, unlike pry bar, but it shouldn’t apply five seconds of confusion but three. It would be fine if all skills applied a base duration of three seconds of confusion, unless the +/-40% condition duration food is removed from WvW, so this also applies to the glamour skills (and things like the pain inverter asura racial).
Finally, I think Blinding Befuddlement (Glamour = one stack of confusion) is fine, but Confusing Enchantments (Glamour = stacks confusion when crossing the field) may have to be reconsidered because it allows area denial without an AE cap as it seems. It would eventually make more sense to have them both in the grandmaster tier.

MrForz.1953:

Stealth and Confusion are poorly designed, Necro badly needs some buffs on some areas. That’s all.

I know your pain…
For example a buff on bags is really needed….20 slots are really too few for all that loot and necro are often forced to leave combat to sell stuff…..

I’m not sure what the build was but I’ve seen se pretty tanky Necros in WvW. So I don’t think you’re without options.

Zumy.6318:

If you are stacked by a glamourmesmer, basically even breathing will kill you.
Close quarters with HGH engi is even worse because he will cc the crap out of you and even using a stunbreaker will kill you.
Swap to water and dodge = dead.
So what does an elementalist do if he cannot even swap attunements withoug getting 7-10k dps?

Carry Cleansing flame on your bar
I think you are running into more than 1 glam Mesmer if you are getting hit for 7-10k. That is 20+ stacks of confusion, there is no Mesmer that can stack 20 confusion an anyone.

I have been playing my Mesmer lately because of all of the confusion QQ lately. Here is what I see.

1) I am extremely squishy if I want to do max confusion damage.

2) In a zerg I am lucky to get 4-5 stacks on more than a few people, the smart players remove it before it does too much damage/stop attacking/or there is so much AoE condition removal going around that my stacks last for only a few ticks.

3) Against a group of unorganized pugs – I cast my glamour fields and they run through them over and over obtaining stack after stack of confusion, I watch them slowly kill themselves as t6hey continue to attack through it and laugh.

4) 1 v1 u’r gonna have a hard time killing me because you will almost never be able to attack. But that is why confusion was nerfed in sPvP, WvW is not a 1v1.

Edit: I just went back and read through more of the thread and Zumi, I think you are confusing WvW for sPvP.

Dual.8953:

I’m not sure what the build was but I’ve seen se pretty tanky Necros in WvW. So I don’t think you’re without options.

Necros are fine, I get more bags on my necro than any other class.

Hi everyone,

This topic has derailed into a Confusion discussion and thus it will be closed. Please, in the future, reafrain from this behaviour as it doesnt help forum members.

Thanks for your understanding.
This thread is closed.