Guild Wars 2

Honestly, in your opinion, what makes a good commander? If it’s communication, what about the communication? Pinging points, server wide mumble/vent? Team chat? What about the “mindless” zergs? How do you handle Commanders that don’t get along/don’t accept each others ideas/plans?

Just let me know what you think makes a good commander (whether you ARE one or not) and what you’d like to see out of them, to further improve gameplay for every server. (:

I am not one and I don’t want to be one. To answer your question:

Knowing that attacking is not the only way to win.
Knowing that defense is just as important, if not more important at times, than sacking another tower.
Knowing when to attack and when to wait.
Understanding that any army, even a virtual one, survive on supply lines.
Knowing when a tactical retreat is needed.
Never tells people to give up and leave for another BG.
Understands the value of pressure.
Communicates well with others and gives clear and precise direction.
Doesn’t just go for the kill counts but is actually thinking strategically.
Is not a d-bag

Sounds easy enough. Be nice, be supportive and persistent, and communicate well.

Do you value what kind of relationship they have with the server as well? (Friendships through out Guilds, ect)

other than tactics and, as stated above, knowing that defense is also needed.

a commander has to earn respect, both through tactics and how s/he treats others. if its “ON ME NOW! FSakes! FOLLOW ME!!! OMG N00bS!” then well… they can sod right off.

some commanders though have different tactical strengths. if they are a one trick zergaphile they are just mindless and i wont be following them.

they also have to practice what they preach and lead by example. if s/he ask people to do supply runs until all the siege in a tower is complete… they should help do it too at least some of the time. same goes with yak walking to make sure the supplies get to the towers/keeps.

edited: to get rid of “kitten”. i object to the Sesame Street style censoring. at lease use “*” please.

Alright, so basically you don’t want somebody barking orders and sitting upon their throne while “the little people” do the important but dirty work? I understand that!

Distance
Direction
Motivation

The US Army has used this model for NCOs for decades, and it works brilliantly. Every time I put on my commander hat I go over those three basic ‘command requirements’. When ever you ‘command’ something, if you fail to provide those three things, your unit will fail in some way.

Personally, motivation is the easiest to kitten up, and usually the most detrimental. If your army is demoralized, you will likely lose.

I like that! Haven’t really had anybody touch up on the “How to handle Commanders who disagree/ don’t get along” question though.

Two Commanders with two different ideas, unaccepting of the other. What do you do at that point?

It’s a bad situation, if you notice it happening, I suggest just standing down and watching the other commander. If your plan was better, then letting him fail is probably the best solution.

Unfortunately the current system doesn’t allow for much play when it comes to multiple commanders, so you just have to deal with it.

Common (guild wars 2) sense.

Our server has issues with one Commander wanting to zerg, and another commander wanting to be tactical. Unfortunantly, the one with the zerg mentality repeats his actions daily (and responds rudely to any polite suggestions). To the point where if we keep standing down, we’re just watching him zerg down the same keeps day by day and getting no where.
So I’m hoping to find a solution that enables everybody to be heard/understood/appreciated, while still getting stuff done. ><

The one who wants to be tactical should drop his commander hat and use his guild to be tactical. If he doesn’t have a guild behind him, he probably shouldn’t be a commander. While said person wouldn’t get full credit for his work, it would win the war, generally.

I see what you’re saying. It’s just difficult since we’re usually outnumbered and need all the people we can get. But I understand what you’re saying. It’d basically be fighting a losing battle to try and get him to listen.
I figure we’ll just manipulate his zerg to work with our tactics (i.e. distraction while we take supply camps and build sieges)

When I play commander, I lead the zerg. Period. That’s generally the best I can provide to the map at the time. My guild is in the background doing all the dirty work (flipping camps, placing siege, making sure the siege stays active, using long range siege to bust open keeps/towers) while I run the zerg around using sheer numbers and minor siege (mostly catapults and rams) to bust towers/keeps.

It works perfectly.

A good commander needs a good guild at his/her back to make the backbone of their force. I think this is the single most important aspect.

There are many things that make a good Commander:

1. Experience – A Commander must know different and good strategies on taking down each area. Strategies such as knowledge on where to appropriately plant siege or how to effectively flank an area is vital in WvW.

2. Communication – A Commander must be able to convince the team into following his/her orders. This can easily be done by reasonably explaining their strategy with their team, and keeping their team up-to-date on what’s going on in WvW. Aside from giving orders in WvW, a Commander must also be capable of working with other players and leaders, so they can not only be able to coordinate strategies, but also be kept up-to-date on things such as where the enemies are coming from or what a keep’s health is at.

3. Raising Morale – A good Commander must be able to keep morale high, even when your team is losing. Though morale is mostly gained by achieving victory, a good Commander must do their job in raising morale by congratulating their team through any victory, no matter how small, and be able to gather their team for another coordinated strike, even when all hope seems lost. Above all, a good Commander never puts his team down in any way, such as calling his team “noobs, idiots, failures, etc.”

4. Giving Tips – A good Commander is experienced, and must always expect that each player may not be as experienced as they are. In any case, a good Commander should always give out any tips from past experiences to help other players become as experienced as they are. Simple tips such as telling people to not take supply from the keeps, or always telling people to re-supply can be vital in WvW.

thegersh.6750:

other than tactics and, as stated above, knowing that defense is also needed.

a commander has to earn respect, both through tactics and how s/he treats others. if its “ON ME NOW! FSakes! FOLLOW ME!!! OMG N00bS!” then well… they can sod right off.

some commanders though have different tactical strengths. if they are a one trick zergaphile they are just mindless and i wont be following them.

they also have to practice what they preach and lead by example. if s/he ask people to do supply runs until all the siege in a tower is complete… they should help do it too at least some of the time. same goes with yak walking to make sure the supplies get to the towers/keeps.

edited: to get rid of “kitten”. i object to the Sesame Street style censoring. at lease use “*” please.

I agree in theory that they should also do supply runs and stuff, but in practice I completely disagree. The commander that does menial work like that can easily lose oversight on what is going on. even worse he can get separated from his forces which would completely halt any campaign being waged. The commanders place is with the main force where he is most effective.

There is only one active commander that I actually have respect for on my server. Most of the commanders I have interacted with have been total kitten, but the commander I respect is always respectful to others. This goes not only for commanders, but everyone in-game and IRL: you can’t gain respect if you don’t show it. I’ve even been called a “selfish kitten” in map chat by someone when I questioned why they were asking people to do something and it escalated. Anyway, the reasons I respect this commander are:

- They are polite to others
- They explain their actions instead of just ordering people around
- They contribute and join us in doing said actions
- They remind to not take/take supply in specific areas
- Their tactics make sense to me (I’ve seen too many commanders in my server telling people to “RUSH SM RUSH SM” when we clearly don’t have the amount of people or organization necessary for it – especially when one of our major keeps is under attack)
- Doesn’t just focus on offense, but on defense
- When they are focusing on offense, they use smart tactics such as taking out siege before an attack
- They have good communication, and while giving orders they aren’t kitteny about it (ATTACK HERE OMG WHY AREN’T YOU DOING THIS YOU kittenING NOOBS OMG = no.)

I’m not a commander myself but my server has more than enough trash commanders who don’t think anything through. Just because you have 100g or asked guildies to donate to you in order to get it doesn’t mean people should bow before you. You need to earn respect through your actions. The commander book isn’t a free ticket to getting respect from people, especially if you act like a d-bag.

Adding to what Connor said, the commander badge is essentially a rally point for your server. You don’t want to rally players to some random supply camp when there is nothing going on there.

But it also provides a dynamic marker on the map that generally marks where the conflict is/where it is going to be. This marker is incredibly useful because (a) if you don’t have a 5 man squad, you know where you are needed and, more importantly, (b) 5 man squads can avoid clashing with the enemy army and stay spread out.

I would disagree that commanders should not move borderlands. A commander’s job is not to only one map but to his server as a whole. If you can make a much bigger impact on another map with the forces you have, then you should absolutely change borderlands.

Being a commander I’m not gonna post much in this thread cause it’s nice for me to kinda use it as a self evaluator and I’m feelin good readin it so far lol. But one thing that commanders should keep in mind is that if you don’t have small parties at your disposal to do some of the important things like hang back and man 4 arrow carts at a supply camp while you strengthen your defenses, then try and use your blue icon to manipulate the zerg.

It’s amazing what you can do by putting yourself in a place you want to be focused. Or simply stay in a spot like a tower that you’re trying to build up, while communicating through T chat what you need and where. If people can’t follow you around anymore they will usually divert their attention to the next best thing, chat.

Phuriok.9307:

I would disagree that commanders should not move borderlands. A commander’s job is not to only one map but to his server as a whole. If you can make a much bigger impact on another map with the forces you have, then you should absolutely change borderlands.

Being a commander I’m not gonna post much in this thread cause it’s nice for me to kinda use it as a self evaluator and I’m feelin good readin it so far lol. But one thing that commanders should keep in mind is that if you don’t have small parties at your disposal to do some of the important things like hang back and man 4 arrow carts at a supply camp while you strengthen your defenses, then try and use your blue icon to manipulate the zerg.

It’s amazing what you can do by putting yourself in a place you want to be focused. Or simply stay in a spot like a tower that you’re trying to build up, while communicating through T chat what you need and where. If people can’t follow you around anymore they will usually divert their attention to the next best thing, chat.

This is what happened on my server last night. Our borderlands had been completely taken, and we had three commanders step up with major guilds behind them and turn things around. We reclaimed and held our borderlands, fortified everything to the teeth, and then when the situation was under control one of our commanders and his guild went off to an opposing borderlands while the other went to run through the eternal battleground and refortify our castle.

If your home is under control and is going to stay that way for a few hours, then it’s in the best interests of a commander to spoil the current greatest threat’s home turf. If they’re busy pushing you out of their own lands it’ll be harder for them to mount a reasonable offense on your own.

Patience is probably the no1 factor that makes a good commander.

I’ve seen some real ‘heroe heads’ arguing with a commander decisions for now other real reason other then to try and make themselves look good. x10 that during one session and it takes real patience to not tell someone to go jump.

The only thing you really need is to have enough influence that people listen to you when you talk. How you get that influence can vary.

You dont necessarily need to be a tactical genius but if you aren’t and you do make tactical errors, you do have to be honest about them. People will trust someone who takes responsibility for mistakes and asks how it can be done right.

Eventually you will need to know more about how the game works to make more correct decisions but there it is.

The best way to learn it and understand it is to go to a borderland where you have absolutely nothing and you are getting spawn camped. Grab the guys at spawn and put them in your party and go cap supply. When they see you can take a supply camp they will follow you. Eventually, more and more people will begin to follow you because you have given some structure to players who had none. You’ll find yourself with 10 followers and then 15. Before you know it, you can do more than cap a supply camp. You can now ninja a tower.

How you use your influence and where it comes from is different for everyone but the common thread is that when you say something, people listen to you. You can jump off a cliff into shallow water and the 15 dudes behind you will also eat pavement pizza.

The consequence of so many people listening to you is that you need to be careful about what you do and say. I think its important to respect your opponents (publicly anyway). Its important to never get mad at your team or single out individuals for punishment. People will be persuaded by someone who is humble and looking for the right answers, even if they don’t have it just yet.

People won’t be persuaded by someone they feel is a jerk. Worse still, if you conduct yourself like a jerk and a fool, people would rather be wrong than be seen to agree with someone like that.

Some people are natural leaders, though I think anyone can do it. Its just about projecting confidence. You shouldn’t ramble. If you talk clearly and with concision, that demonstrates your confidence.

What makes a good commander is a commander who plays wvw regularly and doesn’t buy it and farm cursed shore.

A good commander is someone who doesn’t fight for 30 mins in the island between redbriar and greenbriar.

A good commander is someone who works with other guilds.

A good commander is someone who understands tactics and doesn’t just flame in chat if someone is approaching an attack differently.

What I’m trying to say is, a good commander is one that has a brain and knows how to play this game. (Very few match this description)

I don’t know how other servers organize their borderland and EB presence. We tend to have 1 borderland or EB commander at a time who should really be spending most of their time looking at the map, tracing mentally where enemy forces are and how many of them there are. You need the cooperation of your team to verify enemy presence and size which allows you to make informed decisions about where to send people so they can win.

We have team leaders who are like commanders in a sense except their job is more like, thinking how to win a battle. A borderland commander’s job is to think about how to win the war (and which battles you should lose or give up to give you the best chance long term of holding the most strategically important territory).

If you are a borderland commander and you don’t know what to do next, you should admit as much, ask for suggestions or allow someone else to step up who does know what to do. You musn’t have any ego. I regularly go from borderland commander to team leader to random dude in a party escorting a yak. Ego is not important. The integrity of your team is important and if that means you must step back, then that is what you must do.

more gold than you?

There is a couple of commander on the server i’m on that i will follow and obey.
They seems to know what to do and when to do it.

Yet there is a lot of other commanders that don’t have a clue,now i’m not going to say there names,but i avoid them as i know we will wipe more than we can gain.
they are the commanders that should not have the tag imo.

They don’t have a clue and what’s involved,only zerging and causing wipes.
They are the type of commanders that cost me more money in repairs than anything else.

tbh i’m getting sick of noob commanders that puts a good group at risk because they don’t have a clue on what to do besides zerg keeps that 99% always fail.

A good commander must always know what to do when to do it ect ect.

Its impossible not to make mistakes. All commanders will make mistakes. The best commanders will own up to them and try to take something positive away from the loss, both for themselves and for their team so everyone can come back stronger next time.

The worst commanders are the ones who never ask what went wrong and continue to make the same mistakes.

Another thing I don’t understand is why some people want to be a borderland or EB commander. Its incredibly stressful when things go bad, and if you are playing competent teams, things will always go bad somewhere, sometime.

Its something you do more out of a sense of duty and respect for your fellow players than because you want to do it. I hate it when I see a Borderland collapse because nobody was willing to bear the responsibility for it. I’ll do it if it my team is happy with me doing it because when they are happy, I tend to be happy too.

Don’t tell people to leave a map to go to another map unless the map they are leaving is in good shape. Telling people to leave a map because we don’t have any points is stupid, the map needs more help, not less. Especially when the map they are telling folks to go to has a queue.

Don’t demand that the entire server join your zerg, and completely ignore defense and then go zooming around the enemy’s backfield capping towers and camps. The opposing team can take that stuff back with 1/4th the numbers you used to take it once you left.

Don’t take something if you don’t plan on holding it for at least one score tick. I’ve seen commanders take stonemist... STONEMIST and then immediately order their server to abandon it and let the enemy take it back, losing it before a tick even happened. Claiming that their grand plan is to make them waste their money upgrading it. Completely ignoring how much it cost in siege and repair bills to take it.

If your server has a voice chat, use it. But make sure you, or somebody else, is always transcribing important information into chat.

If you are taking a lot of flak in chat, and people are making very good arguments against you. Maybe you should trade places with a commander in another map. Don’t start calling them trolls, or idiots. One or two you can ignore, when its a large number of people, you have a problem.

Also try to keep a trustworthy spotter or two in strategic locations and listen when they call something out. Not just when it’s on top of an objective. If somebody spots 15 invaders on a road between X and Y those invaders are going somewhere. Don’t ignore it just because they aren’t in a keep or tower.

A good commaner:

Communicates to people in guilds as well as ones who are guildless.
Is willing to teach and learn.
A good commander doesn’t flame, or bash others.
Someone who has knowledge of tactics, and enemies.
A person who is not afraid to call a retreat if they know the battle is lost.
Someone who has gained respect, and trust by earning it.
Someone willing to learn from mistakes, and think with a creative mind.
Someone determined and won’t lose hope.
Someone who takes a loss, learns, regroups and try to turn the battle around.
A person willing to “think” and use their “brain” over being mindless and trying to run around with overpowering numbers.

There’s a lot more, but you can get the point.

I think there are different levels of good commanders. There are commanders who can lead people. And there are commanders who can lead leaders.

A good commander who can lead people will be fast thinking, creative and seemingly in control of situations that are out of his/her control. They have a good knowledge base on strategy and movement. And they will know how to keep people moving and rallied up.

A good commander who leads leaders will be very good at thinking of the bigger picture. For example knowing that sometimes letting one commanders team die as a distraction while another commanders team takes something else is sometimes required. What is more is that they must have the respect of their fellow commanders and leaders otherwise they will never get the cooperation they need. So having good people skills and learning to persuade people is almost a must.

One that has a ton of blue prints and leads groups to supply camps is better than most in my opinion.

Having siege blueprints is good because they are leading a zerg. Many of which will be new and not have any blueprints. Reminding people to grab supply when they take a camp and so on so that they can effectively siege a location is good.

Trying to get a small group to run supply while a siege is happening so that more siege gets built before the enemy can respond is good. A ballista that is half built is no defense.