Guild Wars 2

Even though at this time I can already tell WvW does not allow much room to explore different tactics. I still notice the lack of skill in many of my server’s Commanders. We have a few solid leaders when at times I will brainlessly follow their lead just because I know they will make the right decisions. One thing about MANY of my WvW Commanders is the lack of flanking or even attacking something from more then one angle. <—- that usually happens only on SM from my experience.

The point of this post is because I want to discuss what skills would a Commander need in order to be good and not just the “Blue Dorito with an army of brainless followers”

One thing I want from every Commander is them being open to suggestions and not thinking that whatever they do is the right thing to do in every situation. I want to be a Commander one day so this is more of advice too.

Patience. A commander is only as good as his/her squad, treat them like kitten and you are just a person that spent 100g.

If you do eventually get your commander tag, you’ll realise that it’s one thing to talk about flank or feint attacks, and quite another to get them done. They can be done, but they require very good communication and explanation from the commander, and a disciplined and intelligent group of players following him. Sometime players seem determined to scatter rather than sticking tightly together, to engage in pointless skirmishes with thieves rather than getting to that objective that needs defending, to either not bring supply or waste it on useless seige, to…. well I could go on.

And on top of that you have to put up with the armchair-generals who are sure they know better because they’ve read a few lines of Sun Tzu. Which is totally applicable to a video game.

Three things for a good commander: 1. Communication, both listening to scout reports and properly reacting to them, and also explaining your plans and reasoning to your followers. Nobody can read minds, and people don’t like following blindly either. 2. Deliberately underestimate the guys following you. The best commanders always assume that if they go within 100 metres of a tower, a good portion of their group will break off to auto-attack the gate until they get wiped, so they either skirt well around them, or they deliberately move that way to leave the less intelligent players there as a distraction for the enemy. 3. Patience. Just accept that things won’t go as well as you’d like, that players will ignore you or mess things up, and that some will blame you personally for the failings of the server. It’s no use raging about it, that just results in things getting worse and worse.

Humility. The fact that you spent 100 gold means nothing. Listen to your server mates, and realize you’re not there to make brilliant tactical decisions, you’re there to provide a shiny icon for people to follow.

Ruin.3461:

Humility. The fact that you spent 100 gold means nothing. Listen to your server mates, and realize you’re not there to make brilliant tactical decisions, you’re there to provide a shiny icon for people to follow.

And what to do when you have two different opinions from your server mates? You can’t just follow both.

Jeknar.6184:

Ruin.3461:

Humility. The fact that you spent 100 gold means nothing. Listen to your server mates, and realize you’re not there to make brilliant tactical decisions, you’re there to provide a shiny icon for people to follow.

And what to do when you have two different opinions from your server mates? You can’t just follow both.

Listening != following through with. If you’re totally unwilling to listen to advice from your server mates then you have a problem. If you have two conflicting opinions then make a judgment call.

my post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Commander-Courtesy-Pats-on-the-back/first#post1533605

has my opinions of this topic and some advise to commanders. funnely enough what i have said in this topic is much the same as what you have stated here.

One thing I have noted between a good commander and a bad one is the good commander is not always playing reactionary. The bad commanders find themselves chasing around the map. The good ones make the enemy chase them or pay for not doing so.

Also I think something that really sets the good from the great apart is build raport with their players.

Ragnar.4257:

If you do eventually get your commander tag, you’ll realise that it’s one thing to talk about flank or feint attacks, and quite another to get them done. They can be done, but they require very good communication and explanation from the commander, and a disciplined and intelligent group of players following him. Sometime players seem determined to scatter rather than sticking tightly together, to engage in pointless skirmishes with thieves rather than getting to that objective that needs defending, to either not bring supply or waste it on useless seige, to…. well I could go on.

And on top of that you have to put up with the armchair-generals who are sure they know better because they’ve read a few lines of Sun Tzu. Which is totally applicable to a video game.

Three things for a good commander: 1. Communication, both listening to scout reports and properly reacting to them, and also explaining your plans and reasoning to your followers. Nobody can read minds, and people don’t like following blindly either. 2. Deliberately underestimate the guys following you. The best commanders always assume that if they go within 100 metres of a tower, a good portion of their group will break off to auto-attack the gate until they get wiped, so they either skirt well around them, or they deliberately move that way to leave the less intelligent players there as a distraction for the enemy. 3. Patience. Just accept that things won’t go as well as you’d like, that players will ignore you or mess things up, and that some will blame you personally for the failings of the server. It’s no use raging about it, that just results in things getting worse and worse.

hahaha where you in my head when you typed this?? is has everything i see as a commander.

commanding

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Personally I’d like to see commanders split up their zerg to cover taking of smaller objectives, deception, and defense. Something like managing squads. On DB the only thing I see commanders do is say “follow me” and “please grab supply”, then aim their zerg-ball at the next objective.

What really bugs me is when a commander says “we need more at location X” hoping to take an objective by shear numbers despite enemy entrenchment. 60 minutes having 50 people taking one well defended tower…such a waste.

Thick skin and a lot of patience.

Eviator.9746:

Personally I’d like to see commanders split up their zerg to cover taking of smaller objectives, deception, and defense. Something like managing squads. On DB the only thing I see commanders do is say “follow me” and “please grab supply”, then aim their zerg-ball at the next objective.

What really bugs me is when a commander says “we need more at location X” hoping to take an objective by shear numbers despite enemy entrenchment. 60 minutes having 50 people taking one well defended tower…such a waste.

Most people don’t listen, even on Maguuma, with our 20 people in our borderland chat in mumble, ask for people to volunteer for a side objective, nobody is willing.

No one flanks because a zerg in tight ball formation is already having the maximum advantage. They are nearly immune to AoE damage thanks to the AoE target limit. They are partially invisible thanks to culling. They lag the **** out of their enemy so they can’t uses their skills.

Flanking requires your front line to hold the enemy, while you go around their back to hit them. In wvw that won’t work primary due to the AoE limit. You cannot kill a tight ball formation zerg fast enough for it to be worth while. And if you split your forces, the enemy in one single bigger zerg would kill your front line too fast. They cannot hold. There is no collision detection. A 60 men tight ball formation zerg can literally charge past your front line and kill everything. By the time your flanking army gets there, their zerg already charged though and is turning around again to kill the rest of you.

And tight ball formation is much easier to train than flanking.

CHIPS.6018:

No one flanks because a zerg in tight ball formation is already having the maximum advantage. They are nearly immune to AoE damage thanks to the AoE target limit. They are partially invisible thanks to culling. They lag the **** out of their enemy so they can’t uses their skills.

Flanking requires your front line to hold the enemy, while you go around their back to hit them. In wvw that won’t work primary due to the AoE limit. You cannot kill a tight ball formation zerg fast enough for it to be worth while. And if you split your forces, the enemy in one single bigger zerg would kill your front line too fast. They cannot hold. There is no collision detection. A 60 men tight ball formation zerg can literally charge past your front line and kill everything. By the time your flanking army gets there, their zerg already charged though and is turning around again to kill the rest of you.

And tight ball formation is much easier to train than flanking.

All I’m Going to say is…. kitten bro….you hurt my soul here….But I do know what you say is true….but kitten bro…

XxNuggetxX.7823:

Ragnar.4257:

If you do eventually get your commander tag, you’ll realise that it’s one thing to talk about flank or feint attacks, and quite another to get them done. They can be done, but they require very good communication and explanation from the commander, and a disciplined and intelligent group of players following him. Sometime players seem determined to scatter rather than sticking tightly together, to engage in pointless skirmishes with thieves rather than getting to that objective that needs defending, to either not bring supply or waste it on useless seige, to…. well I could go on.

And on top of that you have to put up with the armchair-generals who are sure they know better because they’ve read a few lines of Sun Tzu. Which is totally applicable to a video game.

Three things for a good commander: 1. Communication, both listening to scout reports and properly reacting to them, and also explaining your plans and reasoning to your followers. Nobody can read minds, and people don’t like following blindly either. 2. Deliberately underestimate the guys following you. The best commanders always assume that if they go within 100 metres of a tower, a good portion of their group will break off to auto-attack the gate until they get wiped, so they either skirt well around them, or they deliberately move that way to leave the less intelligent players there as a distraction for the enemy. 3. Patience. Just accept that things won’t go as well as you’d like, that players will ignore you or mess things up, and that some will blame you personally for the failings of the server. It’s no use raging about it, that just results in things getting worse and worse.

hahaha where you in my head when you typed this?? is has everything i see as a commander.

Yea lol. This was very very helpful. This is kind of like a Guide/Warning of wanting to be a good commander lol.

Patience, communication and perseverance.

Goes without saying that intelligence and understanding of WvW is essential but even there sometimes dogged determination wins out over the better strategist that gets mad the first time he feels his team messes up, and quits the map.

I try to kill as many of the enemy and my own side as I can in the best violent, glory inducing, bag-gasm of splendor imaginable.

I also like to berate them in a pirate accent and will yell about their mothers if they fail to bring supply. Mostly admittedly because someone forced me to pin up and I had to stop ganking people. =(

Yeah, i can be Captain Obvious, but…
From old Xaoc “fresh commander crash course” (we were good at zerg administration, aren’t we?).
1. Information and communication – your main strength. Check map situation, all day every day. Disappeared sentry, flipped camp, white swords, orange swords. Read chat, whisper other commanders if you see them. And if you server have voice chat, get in there ASAP. Whole purpose of you as commander is organize ppl as much as possible.
2. Siege. You must carry siege, as much as possible. Mostly rams and catas, some trebs and ballistas also useful (arrowcarts and golems are optional for PUG commander). And yes, this is bloody expensive and main reason why most commanders stick with WvW guilds – to get money on siege. (Average Xaoc commander could spend up to ~150-200 rams, ~40-60 catas per day, that was our main guild gold sink, 3-4 active commanders spending siege every day, ouch. Compared to this, upgrading whole borders to full every morning was really cheap).
3. Supply. Your zerg must be always fully packed with supply. Want assault something? Raid supply camp first, better 2 camps. Unfinished siege can cost you time, and wasted time often = failed assault. After assault raid supply camp again.
4. Type in chat. Even if you are in voice chat, even if you lead guild group, always tell pugs on map what you want to do. This is always give you additional ppl near your target, stimulate everyone to communicate and helps organize map alot. Empty and uninformative team chat – one of worst things that can happen on your map.
5. Think one step ahead. You want deploy siege? When enemy will try to destroy it. But how? You killed cannon, there is no trebuchet, you zerg can cover siege from raiders… Oh, you forget about this mortar in tower. Cancel deploy, go destroy mortar, return. Gates down, but tower littered with manned siege and nasty elementalists? Don’t be stupid hero, clear walls first/send mesmer/deploy ballista to destroy siege and enemy blobs.
6. Survive. You role is not deal damage, you must lead zerg. So if you want activate marker, equip yourself as tanky as possible. Downed commander with alive zerg is stupidest thing in the world.

Knowing how to defend, often i see coms. running around with most of the server behind them going only offense. A quick study will realize that 60% of your side in EB is worth way more than taking someones keep for 5 min.

CHIPS.6018:

No one flanks because a zerg in tight ball formation is already having the maximum advantage. They are nearly immune to AoE damage thanks to the AoE target limit. They are partially invisible thanks to culling. They lag the **** out of their enemy so they can’t uses their skills.

this game has no collision, which does not exist in a physical world, so some real world tactics aren’t exactly applicable. That’s some, not all…

Flanks do exist. Not even considering the fact you cannot get a sizable zerg on the move into a tight enough ball unless ideal conditions, even if they were stacked into 1 toon, there are still flanks since the facing arc is only 90 degree, maybe 120 for some classes/skills.

with a width (under non-ideal conditions, which is 100% of the case ) the ball can be compressed into a line. This can be done by instituting the simple idea such that forward runners of the zerg stop to wait when they have opponents in sight.

eliminating depth meant back of your zerg can reach the same range as the front, so you increase the total amount of dps during the initial contact.

keep in mind that this game also has no momentum. Running forward or “charging” into people has no benefit. Optimal movement direction should be lateral, so having a little bit of width has its effects.
For one, you can then configure the loading over this width, and create hammer and anvil effects (ie. engi and traps on one end, heavies mid, dps other end of a 600 yard line).

furthermore. If the movement of a zerg is lateral and not perpendicular to the line of contact, then guess what, you just created a flanking motion.

back to the topic.
suntzu said, 1. route 2. condition 3. map 4. troops and 5. righteousness.
might need to explain the first 2 aspects.
1. what people want. give them what they want and they will follow you
2. weather and natural conditions. we have another element to replace this, coverage and population status

a good commander knows those things
a brilliant commander knows those things and cheats.

1. charismatic – if people don’t follow you, all the strategy in the world won’t help.
2. adaptable – knows what to do depending on the circumstance
3. brave – a commander that doesn’t fight isn’t worth following.

Ragnar.4257:

If you do eventually get your commander tag, you’ll realise that it’s one thing to talk about flank or feint attacks, and quite another to get them done. They can be done, but they require very good communication and explanation from the commander, and a disciplined and intelligent group of players following him.

^ This, PUGs refuse to listen at times, even when the commander has a good strategy.

The 1 most important thing about a good commander, and most often overlooked:

Showing up consistently

This is a lot harder than it appears, and it’s actually very draining in time and effort. The truly great commanders will commit to doing this, the rest will not or won’t be able to.

It’s no good to be a 2-hour a day commander who only shows up in the hours of 2-4PM. It’s no good to be a “fair weather” commander who only shows up at prime time to lead a zerg of players who may already be leading the map.

The key is to sustain activity and be consistent, win or lose, hour after hour and day after day.

To be there talking in chat, providing an icon to be followed – simply put, just showing up consistently.

And yeah, it’s impossible to do for someone who doesn’t have a lot of time to devote to the game.

It also requires total commitment to helping PUGs and strangers who quite frankly often don’t show enough appreciation or skill to deserve it, and to do so day after day, while remaining as positive and decisive as possible.

That’s why the truly great commander deserves the title of “PUG Jesus” – they are the best of us, and they sacrifice a lot to help everyone.

Cherish them, for they are not many, if any.

You guys make it sounds so epic. It truly is and is why I want to be one, if only if only, when your a commander it isn’t only cause you drop 100gs on the Doritos Bling. If only it meant more. Like Work they have put in. Along with skills/Kills. So it’s more like a leaderboard. Highest maybe…6 Ranks are Commanders. If they start getting Lazy or Fkin up. Next in line takes Their Place as Commander. Thanks for all the advice as well. I’m from Darkhaven so I hope I can get that 100g or if they happen to change commanding to some sort of progression system then.

The best Commanders are the ones who can lead the biggest Zerg. And the best Zergs are the ones with at least 20 Commanders all bunched up together.

Zanydachico.7304:

You guys make it sounds so epic. It truly is and is why I want to be one, if only if only, when your a commander it isn’t only cause you drop 100gs on the Doritos Bling. If only it meant more. Like Work they have put in. Along with skills/Kills. So it’s more like a leaderboard. Highest maybe…6 Ranks are Commanders. If they start getting Lazy or Fkin up. Next in line takes Their Place as Commander. Thanks for all the advice as well. I’m from Darkhaven so I hope I can get that 100g or if they happen to change commanding to some sort of progression system then.

I would be last place on that leader board and yet able to outplay them all.

Because good commanders aren’t raking in the kills, they are commanding.
You read the map, you watch your supply levels, you watch your enemy movements you receive reports from scouts and deal out your own orders to micro groups while leading the main body towards the least defended side of an objective or the blind spot in its siege.

Its pot luck if a person who wants commander becomes a good one. And it is not a fun job to do when you are fighting an equal foe. That is when you are juggling three separate attacks with trebs and siege and golems being built behind, with a zerg breaker team sneaking around the hill to flank and arrows pouring out of the sky onto everything.

How to be a good Commander.
Be good at life.
Because every life skill that you know of is used in Commanding.

The End.

Rob.7624:

Its pot luck if a person who wants commander becomes a good one. And it is not a fun job to do when you are fighting an equal foe. That is when you are juggling three separate attacks with trebs and siege and golems being built behind, with a zerg breaker team sneaking around the hill to flank and arrows pouring out of the sky onto everything.

On the contrary, those are the most fun times to command.

Coke and kittens.

Ruin.3461:

Rob.7624:

Its pot luck if a person who wants commander becomes a good one. And it is not a fun job to do when you are fighting an equal foe. That is when you are juggling three separate attacks with trebs and siege and golems being built behind, with a zerg breaker team sneaking around the hill to flank and arrows pouring out of the sky onto everything.

On the contrary, those are the most fun times to command.

Gives me a headache, too much stress.
And if you are not stressed during a fight like that, then its not a very hard one.
Play to win. You lose that fight, your zerg is scattered and crushed.
Meaning you’ll start losing your towers which you’ve just taken.

Rob.7624:

Zanydachico.7304:

You guys make it sounds so epic. It truly is and is why I want to be one, if only if only, when your a commander it isn’t only cause you drop 100gs on the Doritos Bling. If only it meant more. Like Work they have put in. Along with skills/Kills. So it’s more like a leaderboard. Highest maybe…6 Ranks are Commanders. If they start getting Lazy or Fkin up. Next in line takes Their Place as Commander. Thanks for all the advice as well. I’m from Darkhaven so I hope I can get that 100g or if they happen to change commanding to some sort of progression system then.

I would be last place on that leader board and yet able to outplay them all.

Because good commanders aren’t raking in the kills, they are commanding.
You read the map, you watch your supply levels, you watch your enemy movements you receive reports from scouts and deal out your own orders to micro groups while leading the main body towards the least defended side of an objective or the blind spot in its siege.

Its pot luck if a person who wants commander becomes a good one. And it is not a fun job to do when you are fighting an equal foe. That is when you are juggling three separate attacks with trebs and siege and golems being built behind, with a zerg breaker team sneaking around the hill to flank and arrows pouring out of the sky onto everything.

How to be a good Commander.
Be good at life.
Because every life skill that you know of is used in Commanding.

The End.

I know and that’s true. If only maybe commanders have an Attack Order,Defend Order Supply Run Order (They can have more but I think those three would be the most important)
A Commander gets Rating Points depending on how many people attack the area he ordered which would be a keep,tower and such. While he gets some for how many people defend and area the commander orders. These Commands can only be used maybe every half hour or 15 minutes to not let any Rate Spams. Supply Run Order should provide rating for how much supply is taken from a camp or Hold the commander orders……Sounds good?

So we can see definitely who are the best commanders…? Idk

Good Commanders make other good commanders and not followers. Also good Leaders know how to bring servers together and not tear them apart. My opinion. military folks usally make good leaders since they unerstand command and working with all different types of personalities

RonnyRaygun.5692:

Good Commanders make other good commanders and not followers. Also good Leaders know how to bring servers together and not tear them apart. My opinion. military folks usally make good leaders since they unerstand command and working with all different types of personalities

Good thing Os has a high working military staff population.
Probably the most concentrated pool of armed forces gamers I’ve been a part of. But I’m sure you could tell.