Guild Wars 2

Every time I join EotM the commanders usually run away from fights — all three sides often avoid confrontation as much as possible. Why?? If people want xp, then doing sPvP is MUCH faster. Even if you don’t like doing sPvP, there’s no way in hell you can enjoy going around on the map, completing the same objectives over and over, afraid of being zerged. If people want badges, you get more badges fighting in a zerg vs zerg than you do mindlessly capturing objectives. There’s really no point to carebearing in a WvW map.

I haven’t done it since the karma aspect was nerfed.

What I remember was it would give you more wxp, karma and champ bags (thus loot) when capturing objectives instead of battling enemy zergs. Especially if you were outnumbered or knew that you wouldn’t survive a zerg fight.

If that’s not still the case, I’m as confused as you are.

I definitely understand being heavily outnumbered and wanting to avoid them, sure.

But lately, the past week or two, all three sides have avoided confrontation even when the numbers are equal or even in the favor of the side I’m on. I had asked why and they said for WvW experience…. but you use the WvW rank points to uprade things to help you in WvW —- but that is pointless if all people want to do is run from fights.

People rarely take EotM seriously. Succeeding doesn’t have much benefit for regular WvW.

I’ve often considered EotM a bit of a training ground. People use it to get to 80 fast. People use it as a foothold into WvW commanding. It’s not there for winning or losing, just for personal gain.

It’s called a karma/bag/loot train. It’s basically just another PvE alternative to Silverwastes, with occasional player combat.

It’s lame how people turned something that could’ve been another source of PvP into yet another mindless PvE grindfest…

People want their bags of loot. I think they should hard nerf rewards in EotM and hard buff them in WvW proper. WvW rewards should come only from participation in player conflict (actively attacking and defending). Rewards could be dispensed as they are in HoT, on the basis of percentage contribution.

Metridium.2391:

It’s lame how people turned something that could’ve been another source of PvP into yet another mindless PvE grindfest…

I’m just quoting this for 2016

Not you, the comment.

You must be new here. EoTM is a karma training map, where people take their alts, low levels, etc and steam around pvding in a circle. Fighting the enemy is not as efficient as avoiding them, so avoidance is the name of the game.

EOTM has nothing to do with wvw – the points don’t count towards your server score, there is zero reason to hold anything.

EOTM is easy wvw levels, so people also run it to level up their ‘wvw’ rank.

It’s also almost as bad as the Deserted BL in terms of design for actual fights.

Metridium.2391:

It’s lame how people turned something that could’ve been another source of PvP into yet another mindless PvE grindfest…

No one turned it into a PvE grindfest.

Real WvW players didn’t want to play the map because of its terrible design.

At the same time, PvE players wanted to grind it to level. Without the PvE players there, the map would be completely empty — they didn’t push out the WvW players.

It’s all very much like the new BL — except the new BL is in even worse shape because PvE players have no reason to play there.

Metridium.2391:

I had asked why and they said for WvW experience…. but you use the WvW rank points to uprade things to help you in WvW —- but that is pointless if all people want to do is run from fights.

Proofs of heroic to unlock pve hero points…

I find WXP (and hence Proof gain) much greater on EotM fight maps than the Ktrain onessince the train often gets derailed so I look for those guilds that run regular battles in the map and avoid those who don’t. Doesn’t take very long to figure out who the Ktrain comms are and leave maps where the game play isn’t as fun for you. Lately (since HoT) I’ve found it easier to hit fight maps just because more regular WvW players are in EotM unlocking their alts specializations and they are more interested in going up against other players than lords.

What’s the point of having a fight in EotM?

The map is skyhammer tier trash. Even if your targets are players nothing that happens is worthy of being called pvp.

PariahX.6970:

I find WXP (and hence Proof gain) much greater on EotM fight maps than the Ktrain ones

I completly agree with that. I prefer the fightmaps too.
But we are WvW players. It seems like PvE player LOVE running-in-circles-content. Champtrains, helloween maze, chesttrain in silverwaste, karmatrain in eotm. This is all stuff that gives the best rewards for just stupid running in circles and it atrackts a lot of ppl. While the most WvW players i know join a karmatrain before reset, take a few things and are bored before the first round is done, many PvE players seem to enjoy the “trains”

…So maybe A-Net’s next MMO should be Thomas the Tank Engine Online.

Metridium.2391:

It’s lame how people turned something that could’ve been another source of PvP into yet another mindless PvE grindfest…

Thats mindset of modern MMO player, though

My guild and I actually try to keep eotm relatively fun. Ktraining is boring and gets me sleepy very fast. I find it more enjoyable to zerg fight and cap at the same time. My four objectives while commanding in eotm:

1. Loot / Bags.
2. Raise personal achievement: Ultimate Dominator.
3. Raise WvW Rank Points / Heroic Points while capping.
4. Help uplevels level up.

I believe some commanders avoid fights for a few reasons:

1. Does not yet grasp the concept of ZvZ but will eventually want to later.
2. Just wants to cap as fast as possible for karma / champ bags.
3. Avoid conflict because they’ve already lost a few fights.
4. Other.

If you’re in a map with me, I’ll more than likely derail that Ktrain because, to me, like exercise, it releases a protein called BDNF aka Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor which transcribes to my happiness. That’s what keeps me playing this game.

We have been having good fights in EOTM, I haven’t seen much avoidance except for those groups that are clearly outnumbered/outmatched. I had the most fun Saturday night taking over as tag after humiliating wipes only to end up ruling the map and wiping the other groups until they gave up. Of course it became pretty boring at that point, which is why EOTM will never match the potential of WvW with the need for sustained strategy to win a weekly match.

Another problem with fighting in EOTM is it is too easy if you are a WvW vet. I shouldn’t be charging in the front with a glass ele and surviving but that has been the case lately. Only time I have trouble is if the other side is organized with a lot of heavy range pressure . While I love the rush that comes from destroying the other side, I cann’t help but miss the pre-HOT days when WvW was more fun, now it is mainly EOTM for a quick fight fix.

If we were looking for real fights before HoT it was (any WvW map) > EOTM. Now in tier 5 it is EBG > EOTM > DBL. We have even taken our guild WvW raid to EOTM out of DBL boredom. TS, WvW meta builds, team composition, stack-empower-portal bomb, was a real surprise to the EOTM blobs. But it was enjoyable to at least have enemies. We even wiped a couple times since they outnumbered us 4 to 1.

Have you even EotM’d lately? First, there is more than one EotM instance running. So just pointing a finger and saying “EotM” is a mistake. In EotM, you’ll find bag farmers which is the PvP you are looking for. Then there are well organized KTrain which is great for uplevels. Then they’ll be the mixed blend of back and forth fighting and ktraining. Most maps end up doing a little of everything because doing one or the other the entire time get’s boring. Trying to fight the entire time get’s boring too and burns out players.

Sadly my toaster cant handle WvW. Just turns into a slide show. (yea new one soon) Started playing EoTM but was getting bored really fast with Ktraining.

Then HOT came out and things changed. EoTM has turned into one big bloody battle field. All 3 sides clash alot and these massive battles run sooo smoothly. Why?

To answer your question. Ktrain commanders are avoiding fights. Those maps I just get out. WvW commanders are trying their best to dominate the map and thats where I want to be!

Well not every one enjoys spvp i my self am rank 17 after a few years and no plans to raise it any time soon.

Eotm is great for leveling – Karma – H.O.T HP’S – even after all the nerfs i got maybe 3-4 hot hps in hot all other in eotm and only got 4 or 5 left to get in eotm

as for ppl running well they could be really low level they not gonna have much a chance at the front lines and probably there just ot level

This is literally the equivalent of asking why people aren’t using optimal berserker-melee rotations in open world or why they aren’t trying to win when trying to cheese pvp rank in custom arenas. It was never on their minds.

First off, how many Youtube highlight videos (not just WvW) depict losses and failures? There’s not too many, and I like those videos a lot more. First point, people don’t like losing and the hot air: fight ratio is exceedingly bad.

And of course, “wanting fights”. I don’t know, it tends to be a bit better wanting fights when you have guildies or regulars on comms that you know what they’re capable of as opposed to pugs that will probably die in 1 second, not pay attention, and find a different map after a wipe. The later is a real problem as when you’re running with friends and wipe, you’ll probably regroup. Randoms will easily disappear. Hell, even commanders will.

It’s just realism. Commanders just know that random strangers probably don’t care for fights and there is little you can do to force that out of people. You can very easily tell what’s on people’s minds by the way they move and react. And this applies to WvW proper as well. It doesn’t help that EOTM’s terrain doesn’t lend easily to fights, and besides I’ve like 2v5’d as an uplevel and I’m sure there were level 80s on their end. It really doesn’t mean anything to win against people that aren’t even around to fight.

I know I know, we’ll get a lot of badkitten replies from people that they’ll go in regardless of odds, but your group just has to share the mentality.

Finally, there are other reasons like WvW dailies which are often easier to complete than their PvP or PvE counterparts, and maybe they need a few ranks to get a legendary or they want to farm meories of battle. We don’t know, but EOTM is generally a low effort affair aside from avoiding falling off cliffs.

Just don’t try to take a casual mode that seriously. You’ll just bring yourself grief when people don’t agree with it. Actually, that should apply to most of the game itself— I should take my own advice.

Yeah, you must be new if you don’t realize that most of the players go to EotM for exp, WXP, gold, and/or karma. It has nothing to do with map design, although given its popularity and how many commanders like playing on the map, it’s definitely not terribly designed. People are just going to complain about everything these days, even old content they’ve probably played for dozens of hours? Seriously? Sigh. Come on guys lol…

Deserted BL is just huge… 20 min of running and if you are lucky you can find one or 50 players to fight against.

In EotM this is different a bit… 10 min Ktrain/pvd, but after this a good 5 minutes of fight…
Ktrain-fight-Ktrain-fight rinse repeat.

I saw more small Vs small fights in EotM in 3 hours than I saw it in the DBL’s in two weeks.

And I don’t give a flying kitty about karma-loot-wxp or other bullkittens… But I’m telling you I rather go there for finding a fight than any DBL’s.

Hell last time when the enemy blob was beated and they started to run away I got their commander (i’m only 90% sure)… So I run to his body, performed a /bow and I let him survive… It was better for our game! To let the opposite team regroup faster and attack us faster…

I would never think I say this:

EotM is better than the BL’s if you want some fight….

Yes players go there for leveling a character to 80 and some for leveling up there WvW ranks. Because of this, as a commander that sometimes tags up in EotM, I’ll start doing my leading as a k-train commander, but anytime there is a bit of resistance… not even a zerg, just a small group. You can see uplevels (no offense to anyone that levels in EotM) fall pretty quickly. If my group composition is about 40% to 60% uplevels, going into a fight against any group is like suicide for the people that are 80 because the uplevels will die fast and the enemy zerg rallies off the dead really fast. So, hopefully the changes to WvW will also occur in EotM to prevent this.

Most people that I know that do WvW around 75% of the time at least, avoid EotM unless they are leveling an alt or trying to get the proof of heroics quickly. You can actually in a K-Train level faster your WvW rank up than being in actual WvW borderlands or even in EBG. I mean seriously, you can go to EotM find a good K-train and get at around 50 heroic points in 1 to 2 hours than all the PvP in WvW blob verses blob fights grant.

For my guild that does WvW raids with, we go to EotM to actually look for fights to test and improve our picking off of the EotM k-train zerg. I mean its sort of simple since they have so long of a tail at times.

But if you are going to EotM to look for fights, its rather depressing. My guild groups that go to EotM often get disappointed within 30 mins because there is no one that really wants to fight there. So it feels like we’re just being bullies and none of us like that.

TL;DR
Simply put, most EotM zergs are nothing more than up levels leveling to 80 or grinding for heroics. You can level faster on a k-train than you can player killing. There some guilds that go to EotM just to practice their movements and how to havoc a larger group of unskilled players. Yet, even these guilds often get disappointed because people avoid them a lot cause they know that all they are doing is PvP and not concerned about capturing or holding, etc. anything just to player kill.