Guild Wars 2

Dear runner-awayer. Yes, that’s the technical term, look it up. Why for thou dost thou runneth away when thy Commander sayeth “Push” or “Stack” or “Fight you pansies!” It’s a video game. You aren’t going to be hurt. You have to pay some small repair bill if you get killed – big deal. Stay and fight. Read what your commander is telling you to do. Even better, get the FREE program Ventrilo or Teamspeak and actually listen to what’s being said. Only run when the Holy Blue Taco’d One indicates it’s time to do so. You’re on a team. What baseball, football pick your sport team would last if like a third of the team ran away and quit every time the game got hard?

maybe you are just a bad commander, not like the team voted you in or anything. Just because you chose to spend 100g on a dorito doesn’t make you the god everyone must follow and bow down to.

Catisa.6507:

maybe you are just a bad commander, not like the team voted you in or anything. Just because you chose to spend 100g on a dorito doesn’t make you the god everyone must follow and bow down to.

Mmmmmmmmmmm, hungry now!! Must go capture Doritos!!

I hear you. There have been many fights my server has lost because the pugs turned-tail and ran instead of pushed. But I hear the Dorito guy too. If the pugs don’t feel comfortable with the commander they are less likely to stick to them when the going gets tough.

Catisa.6507:

maybe you are just a bad commander, not like the team voted you in or anything. Just because you chose to spend 100g on a dorito doesn’t make you the god everyone must follow and bow down to.

I’m not a commander. I just know the importance of everyone working together to achieve a common goal. Thou shalt not make assumptions.

robocafaz.9017:

I hear you. There have been many fights my server has lost because the pugs turned-tail and ran instead of pushed. But I hear the Dorito guy too. If the pugs don’t feel comfortable with the commander they are less likely to stick to them when the going gets tough.

If one is not going to listen to what the Commander sayeth, why woulds’t thou follow the Holy Blue One in the firsteth place? Do or do not, that’s what Yoda sayeth. It is wise.

In my experience across a variety of Game worlds, The team that runs away first has tended to lose. Great commanders/leaders/motivators can do a lot to help with the Push pull mechanic.

Really great followers who throw themselves forwards on command can often drag the undecided with them as well.

OP, if you and I lead the push, maybe some more will follow…..

The best way to have people on your side to not run away is to run in yourself, no matter how suicidal it is.

it’s better to retreat with people left to defend whatever they’re retreating too than wipe, have you never played any competitive games? TF2 is a prime example

wxp comes from kills, not downs or duration of fights.

when 2 zergs met, if neither side backed off, the stronger zerg would ultimately obtain all the wxp, by killing all of the weaker zerg.
The weaker zerg would get very few kills, and sometimes nothing. Downed arrows are not equivalents to wxp and loot bags, a larger zerg can come back into a win and rez all the downed from initial contact.

A commander that leads a weaker zerg (stronger and weaker is not directly size related) into a direct confrontation isn’t a good commander. A one-time fight to test out strength is understandable, but if you kept pressing a losing issue, that’s just fool’s bravery and don’t blame people not following you into death.

The majority of WvW pre patch is the one that only care about getting WxP. Don’t bother asking them to push in because they won’t unless you push in first. From my experience, get a group of 10-15 to initiate the clash, and let the pugs follow up and deal damage from ranges as most of them are pussies.

This made me smile. We all know those people who are afraid to die. What I don’t get is in Fps games you actually have kill/death ratios. Gw2 has none and doesn’t allow people to check your statistics. Go out there and die with the rest of the Zerg like a good little grasshopper.

Many people find them and there team more successful than following a commander, if unproven. Commander Allstar may have been commanding for many months … that doesn’t mean the random player or pug have been there. They may be new, they may not trust someone other than themselves and friends. (hence the stick at the back ranged mechanic)

Maybe they feel they can do a better job keeping themselves alive than trusting in faith of commander. Happens… so many things can contribute, but its a wasted effort to consider that as your issue, versus doing what you can do good. Stragglers will always… always get picked off.

Ask AoN

I will stick around for a decent commander.
If it’s a crappy one, then I will just stick around long enough to maximize loot bags… then get the hell out of there.

I only listen to the blue dorito man or woman if they’ve genuinely got some good tactics to offer. Otherwise, you’re just a guy who’s 100g poorer than me.

Running is boring.

Running to a fight after repeatedly dying is boring and frustrating.

Pushes are great – when they work. Fail pushes are just fail.

Your commander is more than a guy who spent 100g so that he/she could yell tactics at you. Guild groups know this, that’s why they designate a leader when they conduct ops. That leader isn’t there to explain battle tactics to their guildmates.

The blue dorito provides a visual focal point on the battlefield to direct movement and aoe as well as the use of healing and buffing fields, wards, stealth, CC, blinds, and reflects. Even a mediocre commander understands the necessity of getting the zerg to move with him/her, although a good commander will make sure that each one of those resources is used during a battle.

Yes, there are bad commanders, but in my experience the most glaring errors are strategic rather than tactical. Even if the commander does make a tactical mistake, they’ve attempted something that in most cases would have been impossible without a commander.

Keep in mind that depending on where the encounter is taking place, it could be of strategic value to cut your losses and retreat to a nearby holding to potentially defend it. You guys know what happens when a zerg rolls another zerg near a keep or tower owned by the zerg that just got rolled. The winning zerg uses that momentum and often rushes for that keep/tower and throws down rams, often before the dead can reform and respond.

Just thought I’d throw it out there that there can be strategic value to running like a weeny. In the open field away from anything however, it’s game on and you shouldn’t be running anywhere besides head on into your enemies.

I’ve seen some quite good PvP guilds “run” from a larger force, only to turn on the people chasing them when the pushers became strung out. I’ve watched them do it repeatedly, so it’s obviously an intentional bait-and-switch tactic.

Tried and true tactic. OP is clearly talking about situations where 10 people charge with the commander against 20 while the other 10 stand back waiting for the outcome of said charge. Usually when there’s a feint, someone is calling for it.

CookMETEnder.7582:

I will stick around for a decent commander.
If it’s a crappy one, then I will just stick around long enough to maximize loot bags… then get the hell out of there.

Yeah, see therein lies a problem. You should be part of a team… feel like you belong to some unit, and be following that unit’s commander. Guilds should be trying to recruit people like you and you… well I’d wonder what you’re doing out there not being part of some team. WvW is designed to be the most fun when organized teams are pitting their wits and skill against one another. Nothing but frustration results otherwise for commanders trying to get people to do something teamy-ish and the pugs who find out their zerg loot yields poor results because the commander they don’t know gets them killed more often than not.

What we have now in my experience is a hodge-podge. Some organized teams with people… perhaps like yourself… latching on then throwing in that random “I quit” factor.

I encourage guilds to build teams and get everyone as interested as possible in them. Get on Teamspeak or vent, get organized. Try to minimize or eliminate the random people out there who make for unreliable groups (of any size). Everyone will have more fun and feel like they’re part of something instead of just some vague “server” notion.

I feel it’s odd that I have to even push this on an MMO. I mean, why would you play an MMO if you don’t want to talk with or team up with people? Why not just play a single player game?

Wanderer.3248:

I’ve seen some quite good PvP guilds “run” from a larger force, only to turn on the people chasing them when the pushers became strung out. I’ve watched them do it repeatedly, so it’s obviously an intentional bait-and-switch tactic.

Yeah this is a valid tactic and not what I’m referring to in my original post.

Depends on the commander. Sometimes I see a commander say “PUSH!” and after charging in I notice I’m the only one who actually charged in and everyone else including the commander stayed put.

It really depends. There are some very good commanders and I’d follow them nearly blindly (based on experience I know that they know what they’re doing".
But sometimes you encounter one that seems to have more heroism than common sense. I’m not going to charge if a barely known commander tells me to do so when we’re outmanned about 3:1 .

I see commanders more as a guidance. They can be great and are very usefull for getting a lot of people to do the same thing. But just because someone is a commander doesn’t mean he can’t make stupid decisions and I’ll follow them blindly. This isn’t the army ;p

Just lately we’e been getting some real kitten from commanders who seem to think it’s ok to throw a hissy fit when people don’t do what they’re told.
It’s especially bad when the orders being given are only understood by experienced players. ‘stack’ being a favourite. Or when the commander WPs and runs around the field so fast no-one can catch up – especially if we have to cross the enemy zerg to get to him.
Now we’ve even got commanders turning off their icon to deliberately disrupt the zerg (A commanders only real purpose), just to show how important they are.

The game is called Guild Wars. There’s an easy way to organize – and organizing is key to victory. Join a guild that does WvW. Learn all about WvW from that guild. Follow that guilds commander and be on their squad so you don’t see any other commander sigil’s. No more pugs, better communication, more fun, better team play.

Do not log into WvW and start following around some dude with a blue thing over his head that you don’t know. Do not just run around and kill stuff. Do not stand on walls doing nothing while you’re under attack. It’s silly and disorganized. It’s a lot of fun being part of a team and you’ll get more done and feel like you’ve accomplished team goals and… stuff.

avoiding death is important, and not just because of the repair bill. the bigger problem is, if you get killed then every downed enemy who got a hit in on you will rally.

it is better to run away than to bravely face the inevitable and thereby allow a dozen enemies to rally from your defeat.

being able to tell the difference between when it’s time to run and when it’s time to fight takes practice. I have no doubt that many people run too soon, but running too soon is probably better than running too late.

-ken

I love that the outmanned buff now means zero repair costs — turns risk/reward on its head. Sure, it’s lead to some spectacular deaths, but also to some spectacular wins against long odds. Good stuff.

Our groups tend to stay away from commanders nowadays just to avoid the zergs. I’ve also seen many a terrible commander. My favorites though are the ones who throw a tantrum when people stop following them. I fondly remember one who started going off in team chat:

“Everyone stack up on me or I’m logging off!”

Our response:

“Bye!”

They really should use a different criteria other than dropping a bunch of gold to obtain a commander’s seal. A server voting system would be much better in my opinion. That way you have to gain the respect of your peers before you can get a seal.