Guild Wars 2

So I recently found an old blog post about the state of WvW in one of the threads here and was wondering myself what actually happened until now.
I will quote the most important things from this 2(!) years old post.
Let’s begin

We’ve been shifting our focus from major new features to solidifying WvW as it currently exists

6 months later we got eotm.

Current State

Support play is vital to victory but unevenly rewarded in terms of World XP, XP, gold, karma, badges, and other tangibles. While those players rebuilding your walls may be performing a vital service, theirs is usually thankless work.

Commanders are a major part of the battle, but right now their tools for commanding are few.

Guilds are an important part of strategic gameplay as well, but they aren’t rewarded much for taking an active, positive role.

And? No changes at all. And please don’t tell me that an airstrike over sm castle is the great idea you had for making guilds more viable.

Future plans

All of that may be well and good, but addressing all of those issues is a tremendous undertaking — one that won’t happen overnight.

I guess 2 years were not enaugh to do ANYTHING?
We didn’t ask for ruins, we didn’t ask for traps and we didn’t ask for eotm. We asked you to change the actual gamemode itself to make it more fun. But you wasted your time for minor stuff while the actual gamemode and the biggest things about it never changed.
The only positive things I could say is the more dynamic matchmaking system (which was very much needed) and WXP. Thank you for that.

player roles
Scouts, siege masters, and defenders are only a sampling of the roles we intend to add to. We think that these are all a vital part of the success of any server in WvW, so we want to reward players who do these tasks so that they feel like their time is properly valued.

Where is the equal reward for everyone?

zergs
The zerg is an important part of the game, but it shouldn’t be the best strategy for victory. […]
We think that it can be fun to run around in a zerg — but we also think that the game should be about tactical acumen and skill more than sheer numbers.
In order to achieve that, we will continue to make tweaks to the scoring system to properly reward smart play and to make it possible for a server to prevail over superior numbers with superior tactics.

I guess all of us know the current state of smart play vs. zerg play. And where are the changes to the scoring system? Do you think giving 1 point for a sentry actually matters in the end, compared to objectives?

Right now our game rewards you for holding an objective, not necessarily for taking it, and overwhelmingly favors the last server to log out for the day. We have some ideas in the pipeline to try to increase scoring when people are playing the game and to make it much more difficult to keep your territory without actively guarding it.

Why haven’t you done anything about it if you already thought about it 2 years ago? The scoring system is one of the most important thing in a competitive mode, yet you haven’t done anything to make it better.

We’ve also been tossing around some ideas to introduce variety into the matches on a weekly basis. Just imagine the possibility of rule changes that come in for a week and then disappear into the Mists.

So after 2 years with this idea you came up with god kitten golems? WHAT THE ACTUAL KITTEN?

we don’t think that “MOAR arrow carts!” should be the answer to every situation

Yeah…right
_______________________________________________________________

This is only a sampling of what we intend to add to WvW. We have a lot of ideas (some crazy, some not) that we hope to release to make WvW an even more vibrant game; a game that will continue to grow and evolve for years to come.

In this post right now I have 9 paragraphs with things that you wanted to change and that you should have changed within the 2 years. None of this actually happened. And this is only “a sampling”?
So if you’ve obviously got enaugh ideas for the next 20 years..why don’t you implement any of these before the gamemode is entirely dead?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/devon-carver-on-the-future-of-world-vs-world/
Read it yourself, as a developer. What happened to your promises? Why don’t you talk to us at all? Why don’t you actually listen to the ideas of players that know the current state of the gamemode?
This just makes me wanna cry. And I hope so do you.
This gamemode had, and still has, a lot of potential if you are actually doing something about it and care about it.
This gamemode is unique amongst all current MMO’s. It could be a great advertisement for the game. Because competitive players are NOT “exceptions”

You always talked to your community in GW1 to keep the competitive gamemodes viable. Why don’t you do it now?

We all have the goal to make this game fun-but if you don’t ask the players what they think is fun it’s just not going to work.

TL;DR: Please focus on the basics and not on small details.

To be fair, I think they are doing something to help make Scouting a little better with the expansion. Aren’t they making some changes to like..yaks and upgrades and stuff so it isn’t so financially kitten scouts?

But other than that, I completely agree and even with the scout thing, shouldn’t have taken this long.

Well I hope for them that at least 90% of this will be fixed with the addon.
If not…I don’t see a future for this gamemode.

I always liked the part about Zergs the best. Most of the changes to the mode are counterintuitive to what DC expresses there. But, I have to admit he said a lot of the right stuff.

Promised? Did they actually say “I Promise you this”

Highly doubt it.

Also there have been several small changes and more to come, just people over look those changes because they feel. “I didnt ask for this change”

You know what? I don’t like many of the changes other players have asked for.

briggah.7910:

Promised? Did they actually say “I Promise you this”

Highly doubt it.

I have to agree with you. This is why they give us so little info cause the next thing you know is,

YOU PROMISED.

No wonder they communicate the least with the WvW forums.

While I think that there are legitmate concerns for WvW this is not the way to get your voice heard.

briggah.7910:

Promised? Did they actually say “I Promise you this”

Highly doubt it.

It depends. They said “we are planning to do this”. Of course this is no promise but not doing any major changes at all after this post basically is like showing your middle finger to the community.
@Nightshade
That’s the point.
And as far as we knew Arenanet in the past they are only telling people about things if they are sure to deliver it. Not in this case, so the disappointment is even bigger.

Entenkommando.5208:

briggah.7910:

Promised? Did they actually say “I Promise you this”

Highly doubt it.

It depends. They said “we are planning to do this”. Of course this is no promise but not doing any major changes at all after this post basically is like showing your middle finger to the community.
And as far as we knew Arenanet in the past they are only telling people about things if they are sure to deliver it. Not in this case, so the disappointment is even bigger.

So the answer is no they didnt promise you. Planning to do something, is not a promise.

Nightshade.2570:

briggah.7910:

Promised? Did they actually say “I Promise you this”

Highly doubt it.

I have to agree with you. This is why they give us so little info cause the next thing you know is,

YOU PROMISED.

No wonder they communicate the least with the WvW forums.

While I think that there are legitmate concerns for WvW this is not the way to get your voice heard.

I would like to point out to you, that the one time during this week they have communicated with us, it was met with thanks and gratitude (see the thread about the lag fix). People are angry because they’re not speaking to us. A good company doesn’t hide from it’s customers, even (especially) when they’re upset.

Entenkommando.5208:

briggah.7910:

Promised? Did they actually say “I Promise you this”

Highly doubt it.

It depends. They said “we are planning to do this”. Of course this is no promise but not doing any major changes at all after this post basically is like showing your middle finger to the community.

Do we really want major changes though? Most will say yes but if you look at temporary changes such as events and tournaments, I’m pretty sure more would rather not see any changes.

Even new map people are saying will become EoTM 2.0 and unfortunately it may become that since so many are putting it in peoples heads that it will be before any of us have played it..

briggah.7910:

Entenkommando.5208:

briggah.7910:

Promised? Did they actually say “I Promise you this”

Highly doubt it.

It depends. They said “we are planning to do this”. Of course this is no promise but not doing any major changes at all after this post basically is like showing your middle finger to the community.

Do we really want major changes though? Most will say yes but if you look at temporary changes such as events and tournaments, I’m pretty sure more would rather not see any changes.

Even new map people are saying will become EoTM 2.0 and unfortunately it may become that since so many are putting it in peoples heads that it will be before any of us have played it..

I don’t think core WvW players want major changes as in new things. I think what people want is just for Anet to try and fix the game-mode up a little bit and improve upon the system. Doing things like, fixing the server imbalance, adding PPK, doing stuff to encourage and rewards for fights and skill rather than just PPT, give a little more rewards for stuff like Scouting, fix bugs, etc. I would even welcome new maps just for the change of scenery, but y’know they don’t have to get too crazy with it. Making new maps that are so much bigger when there’s already a population problem just doesn’t make sense. They could have kept the size/layout of the current maps, maybe made minor changes, but changed the scenery and made some of the cool more cosmetic features of the new map.

briggah.7910:

Entenkommando.5208:

briggah.7910:

Promised? Did they actually say “I Promise you this”

Highly doubt it.

It depends. They said “we are planning to do this”. Of course this is no promise but not doing any major changes at all after this post basically is like showing your middle finger to the community.

Do we really want major changes though? Most will say yes but if you look at temporary changes such as events and tournaments, I’m pretty sure more would rather not see any changes.

Even new map people are saying will become EoTM 2.0 and unfortunately it may become that since so many are putting it in peoples heads that it will be before any of us have played it..

“Major changes” are things like finally making a scoring system that is not dependent on 24/7 coverage, fixing the endless lags, the fact that the bigger group is always superior in 99% of the cases, to disencourage pvd play and so on.
This is what people do want. Read the threads here.
Basically everything to improve the competitive aspect.

Genavelle.9516:

I don’t think core WvW players want major changes as in new things. I think what people want is just for Anet to try and fix the game-mode up a little bit and improve upon the system. Doing things like, fixing the server imbalance, adding PPK, doing stuff to encourage and rewards for fights and skill rather than just PPT, give a little more rewards for stuff like Scouting, fix bugs, etc. I would even welcome new maps just for the change of scenery, but y’know they don’t have to get too crazy with it. Making new maps that are so much bigger when there’s already a population problem just doesn’t make sense. They could have kept the size/layout of the current maps, maybe made minor changes, but changed the scenery and made some of the cool more cosmetic features of the new map.

Yup totally agree. Even if they changed scenery every now and then that would make me happy. Little things like updating the graphics for towers and keeps would spice things up some. Even though these changes are manly for the looks of things it would probably show us that they do care and we are not forgotten. I like the way SM looks but it could look a lot better if it got a new face lift of some sort.

As for new map lol as is now we have to map hop to save our keeps at times and we are lucky if we even queue a map on reset. I really would hate to see a new map either have everyone on it and other maps are empty or the other way around. I’m sure when it is first released most will be on it to see the new stuff but more has to be done or it will be one big empty map over time for servers that already have low populations..

Entenkommando.5208:

briggah.7910:

Entenkommando.5208:

briggah.7910:

Promised? Did they actually say “I Promise you this”

Highly doubt it.

It depends. They said “we are planning to do this”. Of course this is no promise but not doing any major changes at all after this post basically is like showing your middle finger to the community.

Do we really want major changes though? Most will say yes but if you look at temporary changes such as events and tournaments, I’m pretty sure more would rather not see any changes.

Even new map people are saying will become EoTM 2.0 and unfortunately it may become that since so many are putting it in peoples heads that it will be before any of us have played it..

“Major changes” are things like finally making a scoring system that is not dependent on 24/7 coverage, fixing the endless lags, the fact that the bigger group is always superior in 99% of the cases, to disencourage pvd play and so on.
This is what people do want. Read the threads here.
Basically everything to improve the competitive aspect.

Oh I know of the problems and not disagreeing at all.. I said in the past and will say again. A fix for one tier will hurt another tier. I’ve read all the suggestion to fix matches and honestly most want seem to want to make it more blobby and zergy with either server merges or alliances. If I really saw a good suggestion on how to fix it I would stand by that. Thing is I’ve yet to see a good suggestion on how to fix all these problems without making it worse for others.

Only fix I can see is get more people in WvW and keep them there LOL how to do that I really don’t know..

I think (and hope) that they are going to change all these things with the addon so they can sell it as the revolution of WvW.
But this comes at the price that over 3 years there were no major changes and players had to live with the same things and do the same things over and over and over again.

For a competitive gamemode this is the wrong way to go.
If there are problems they have to be fixed asap and not be sold with the next expansion 3 years later.

Simply focus on one aspect of WvW, load a patch, let’s say every 6 months, and look how it impacts the gamemode instead of changing everything at once, patching in 9999 bugs and beeing completely overstrained by the complexity of the new machanics working together which they can impossibly even closely simulate in the state of development.

Guilds are an important part of strategic gameplay as well, but they aren’t rewarded much for taking an active, positive role.

They are actually addressing this with HoT. One of the things we know is guilds will be able to summon zeppelins to defend SM.

We’ve also been tossing around some ideas to introduce variety into the matches on a weekly basis. Just imagine the possibility of rule changes that come in for a week and then disappear into the Mists.

They seem to be working on this OP, and no it wasn’t just golem week, but it was also the “no white swords” and “Point Per Kill” weeks. And it seems they will continue to do more of these since they are actually asking for more ideas.

6 months later we got eotm.

EOTM is a test map to features that Anet will be introducing with the new borderlands map, so it seems it wasn’t a total fail.

Some of the things he mentioned on the blog post might be coming with the new map/HoT, we really don’t know.

Things get canceled or changed all the time in game design, and even though WvW is not perfect, I noticed that most (maybe all?) of the CDI posts did change the game, so yea I would say so far Anet has actually listened to feedback (and not just the CDI posts, but also players’ suggestions).

Nightshade.2570:

While I think that there are legitmate concerns for WvW this is not the way to get your voice heard.

What else should we do? Only give positive feedback to bait them into a trap so we can actually talk with them? Do you have any idea how to communicate with them or should we just all shut up if we’ve nothing nice to say?

There is no communication going on – besides the lag thingy – and I think this is frustrating everyone here. There are at least two mmos in development which focus on RvR. One looks more like a very strategic slow paced fantasy mmo and the other one like a brutal fast paced scifi mmo. They should be able to fit each WvWers taste.

Should we wait until they are ready to be released and hope they function as a wakeup call for Anet?

briggah.7910:

Promised? Did they actually say “I Promise you this”

Highly doubt it.

Also there have been several small changes and more to come, just people over look those changes because they feel. “I didnt ask for this change”

You know what? I don’t like many of the changes other players have asked for.

This could be fun.

briggah.7910:

Do we really want major changes though? Most will say yes..

Yes, yes, YES!

WvW at heart is a great concept, yet suffers from many major design flaws. Start with the central mechanic of the game, holding territory, offense and defense. Any decent sized zerg can cap a keep unopposed in just a couple minutes. And if your goal is to capture something, the best strategy is to “hit ‘em where they ain’t”. So, there’s a fundamental incentive to avoid fights, not engage them. And, if you want to defend you have to invest a lot of time and money doing all the boring busy work to prepare and waiting to be attacked. That’s fine if you’re an animated soldier from an RTS, but incredibly lame for a real person. The design should be naturally drawing opponents together to compete for points, not creating a rat race of PvD.

WvW could be, and should be, the crown jewel of GW2. And ANet hasn’t even explored ways to monetize it through the gem store. There are lots of opportunities for guild and wvw based cosmetics.

Pikka.6023:

briggah.7910:

Do we really want major changes though? Most will say yes..

Yes, yes, YES!

WvW at heart is a great concept, yet suffers from many major design flaws. Start with the central mechanic of the game, holding territory, offense and defense. Any decent sized zerg can cap a keep unopposed in just a couple minutes. And if your goal is to capture something, the best strategy is to “hit ‘em where they ain’t”. So, there’s a fundamental incentive to avoid fights, not engage them. And, if you want to defend you have to invest a lot of time and money doing all the boring busy work to prepare and waiting to be attacked. That’s fine if you’re an animated soldier from an RTS, but incredibly lame for a real person. The design should be naturally drawing opponents together to compete for points, not creating a rat race of PvD.

WvW could be, and should be, the crown jewel of GW2. And ANet hasn’t even explored ways to monetize it through the gem store. There are lots of opportunities for guild and wvw based cosmetics.

Since you mentioned preparing and wasting money(guess you mean in upgrades) I will point out that this will be changing. Some people don’t even like the idea of auto upgrading but will also point out that the idea probably came from the many threads of people complaining about others ordering troll upgrades to burn your supplies and also building troll siege to halt upgrades.

If people actually split up, scouted and reacted to call outs well there wouldn’t be as much PvD’ing as there is.. WvW has become zerg everything as far as I can see. Not by everyone but just go and attack something with 5 people and see what comes after you.

Thing is people call zergs for everything now a days. I know you have seen it yourself. Zerg at so and so tower and when you get there it is like 5 – 8 people.. If people actually made correct call outs smaller groups would probably react faster.

briggah.7910:

If people actually split up, scouted and reacted to call outs well there wouldn’t be as much PvD’ing as there is.. WvW has become zerg everything as far as I can see. Not by everyone but just go and attack something with 5 people and see what comes after you.

Thing is people call zergs for everything now a days. I know you have seen it yourself. Zerg at so and so tower and when you get there it is like 5 – 8 people.. If people actually made correct call outs smaller groups would probably react faster.

My WvW life has been made on scouting, upgrading, sieging, refreshing, call-outs and defending. And when it’s done well, you end up with a handful of people on your border, or your third of EB, doing busy work for hours at a time, waiting for a real incursion. And when it comes, sometimes the work you put in makes all the difference, and sometimes your calls for defenders go unanswered. Occasionally it makes for a real protracted siege or great fights, but often the invaders disappear at the first sign of real resistance, or they cap the keep before the defenders arrive. And if people get fed up and don’t defend, then it’s like Golem Week all the time. The problem is the game design, not the people playing the game.

Players should generally be proactive, naturally leading to competitions for points; where it’s desirable for players to be reactive, the game needs to slow down the action enough to promote and reward that. Blasting through a gate in a few seconds with a golem army is bad in all scenarios, not just golem week.

Some of the most fun I’ve had in the game is when one server, or both, becomes determined to flip a keep, and they begin a protracted siege, mixing in smaller group attacks on other gates away from the main action, cutting off resupply, guarding yaks, feinting to other objectives then returning, counterattacks to destroy trebs, and, of course, ultimately epic lord fights. The ratio of that to rapid PvD is far, far too low, and game design is the problem.

There is a lot of thing to change…. Higher wall, stronger gate… Remove player damage on gate…. Remove golem…
One T3 gate should take at least 5Min to be destroyed by 3 rams…. This will give enough time for defenders to come back and have fight.
With this at least you have to really siege ennemy keep to take it, and to fight the ennemy players…

Actually you can take a fully upgraded keep in 2min ! With this people just try to attack undefended keep and make PVD…
Make the world depend more on player, and not on PVE Event… Automatic upgrade remove control from player to computer… This is a bad thing…
And what about troll upgrade ? Troll siege ? Maybe change how the system work, and don’t make WvW but GvG…. With alliance and thing like this…. Then you can choose your ally, and push out people who make kitten…

The way ArenaNet goes about handling the community is awful, in my opinion. Sure, it’s one thing to say you don’t want to promise things and then renege on that and disappoint people hence everything they’re doing being shrouded in mystery, but not communicating with the playerbase at all is hardly a better alternative.

Take a leaf out of Yoshi’s book:

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/07/square-enix-suspends-final-fantasy-xiv-mac-sales-offers-refunds/

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/244811-NA-The-state-of-the-FFXIV-Mac-version-and-our-plans-for-the-future?p=3101723#post3101723

briggah.7910:

Pikka.6023:

briggah.7910:

Do we really want major changes though? Most will say yes..

Yes, yes, YES!

WvW at heart is a great concept, yet suffers from many major design flaws. Start with the central mechanic of the game, holding territory, offense and defense. Any decent sized zerg can cap a keep unopposed in just a couple minutes. And if your goal is to capture something, the best strategy is to “hit ‘em where they ain’t”. So, there’s a fundamental incentive to avoid fights, not engage them. And, if you want to defend you have to invest a lot of time and money doing all the boring busy work to prepare and waiting to be attacked. That’s fine if you’re an animated soldier from an RTS, but incredibly lame for a real person. The design should be naturally drawing opponents together to compete for points, not creating a rat race of PvD.

WvW could be, and should be, the crown jewel of GW2. And ANet hasn’t even explored ways to monetize it through the gem store. There are lots of opportunities for guild and wvw based cosmetics.

Since you mentioned preparing and wasting money(guess you mean in upgrades) I will point out that this will be changing. Some people don’t even like the idea of auto upgrading but will also point out that the idea probably came from the many threads of people complaining about others ordering troll upgrades to burn your supplies and also building troll siege to halt upgrades.

If people actually split up, scouted and reacted to call outs well there wouldn’t be as much PvD’ing as there is.. WvW has become zerg everything as far as I can see. Not by everyone but just go and attack something with 5 people and see what comes after you.

Thing is people call zergs for everything now a days. I know you have seen it yourself. Zerg at so and so tower and when you get there it is like 5 – 8 people.. If people actually made correct call outs smaller groups would probably react faster.

yeah, was running around with about 25 people on my T3 account the other day. Somebody called “INC” in all caps like 5 times in a row and it was literally 1 ranger watching from a cliff

Usagi.4835:

The way ArenaNet goes about handling the community is awful, in my opinion. Sure, it’s one thing to say you don’t want to promise things and then renege on that and disappoint people hence everything they’re doing being shrouded in mystery, but not communicating with the playerbase at all is hardly a better alternative.

Take a leaf out of Yoshi’s book:

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/07/square-enix-suspends-final-fantasy-xiv-mac-sales-offers-refunds/

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/244811-NA-The-state-of-the-FFXIV-Mac-version-and-our-plans-for-the-future?p=3101723#post3101723

So FFXIV is still a flop to its fans that play on mac.. Glad I gave up on FF after their first flop.

briggah.7910:

Usagi.4835:

The way ArenaNet goes about handling the community is awful, in my opinion. Sure, it’s one thing to say you don’t want to promise things and then renege on that and disappoint people hence everything they’re doing being shrouded in mystery, but not communicating with the playerbase at all is hardly a better alternative.

Take a leaf out of Yoshi’s book:

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/07/square-enix-suspends-final-fantasy-xiv-mac-sales-offers-refunds/

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/244811-NA-The-state-of-the-FFXIV-Mac-version-and-our-plans-for-the-future?p=3101723#post3101723

So FFXIV is still a flop to its fans that play on mac.. Glad I gave up on FF after their first flop.

You never tried it again?! Big mistake, sir! Awesome old school mmo with a fresh touch and you can feel the love some guys put into this game.

BTW: Nobody wants to play on mac…nobody…

illenos.5134:

briggah.7910:

Usagi.4835:

The way ArenaNet goes about handling the community is awful, in my opinion. Sure, it’s one thing to say you don’t want to promise things and then renege on that and disappoint people hence everything they’re doing being shrouded in mystery, but not communicating with the playerbase at all is hardly a better alternative.

Take a leaf out of Yoshi’s book:

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/07/square-enix-suspends-final-fantasy-xiv-mac-sales-offers-refunds/

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/244811-NA-The-state-of-the-FFXIV-Mac-version-and-our-plans-for-the-future?p=3101723#post3101723

So FFXIV is still a flop to its fans that play on mac.. Glad I gave up on FF after their first flop.

You never tried it again?! Big mistake, sir! Awesome old school mmo with a fresh touch and you can feel the love some guys put into this game.

BTW: Nobody wants to play on mac…nobody…

Yea I don’t get why people try and play games on macs LOL

But I did try it. I got into every closed beta until it was released. Although it was better then the first released it just wasn’t enough for me to throw monthly fees at a game again.

Sich.7103:

There is a lot of thing to change…. Higher wall, stronger gate… Remove player damage on gate…. Remove golem…
One T3 gate should take at least 5Min to be destroyed by 3 rams…. This will give enough time for defenders to come back and have fight.
With this at least you have to really siege ennemy keep to take it, and to fight the ennemy players…

Actually you can take a fully upgraded keep in 2min ! With this people just try to attack undefended keep and make PVD…
Make the world depend more on player, and not on PVE Event… Automatic upgrade remove control from player to computer… This is a bad thing…
And what about troll upgrade ? Troll siege ? Maybe change how the system work, and don’t make WvW but GvG…. With alliance and thing like this…. Then you can choose your ally, and push out people who make kitten…

Just like to note that if you plan to make gates take that long to ram, let the ram auto attack with 1. I’m sick of clicking 1 manually each time. It is the one and only thing I do like with golems, they can AA the door.

@Entenkommando:

My TL;DR version of the OP.

Anet lied to us about WvW, and now they aren’t talking. WvW needs to change or it will die.

So what do you propose? What would be the key things to do in order to keep WvW alive? Are there changes coming? yup. Do we know when they’ll be released? Nope. Does this mean that WvW has essentially been abandoned? Not really.

However, I can agree that there could be some changes to the current scoring system. But the problem with that solution is having it work for both max populated servers, as well as under populated servers.
Any change you make to the system that benefits having more people, the lower population servers lose out. And then you are back in the exact same position as before, just with a shiny new system that doesn’t work.

For example: If you reward capping points more than holding points, those with the bigger populations basically running a EotM style train and cap everything. Servers with lower populations lose out, because of the lack of manpower to pull it off.
If you reward holding more than capping (much like the current system) the servers with the lower populations lose because they don’t have the man power to hold the points.

So how do you create a scoring system that treats each server equally without regard to population without making those with larger populations feel that a majority of their people don’t really matter as the scoring will be the same if they had 150 less people on? At the same time making it so those lower populated servers can actually stand a chance?

It’s not an easy solution. And as Briggah said ealier: I have yet to see a solution that works. So maybe thats the reason Anet hasn’t done anything, because its not a simple fix as many people have claimed. And until they have SOMETHING they aren’t going to say anything. Thats their policy, like it or not.

The game is called “Guild” Wars.
But they should call it “Zerg” wars or “Blob” wars.
Because WvW is mostly ment to blob and run around and capture stuff and sometimes fight a enemy blob.
And then we press 11111111.

Thats no fun for a guild group of 15-20 to fight against blobs.
So why does Anet calls it “Guild” wars then, call it “Server” wars.
Or make a system where guilds can fight guilds.
For example the game Battlefield you can have clanwars where you fights against others clans with even numbers.
So make a system in guild wars where guilds from all servers can apply to so they can fight other guilds on a seperate map or create a server for that (same like the global servers u use for PvE maps). Where you can go to if a guild wants to fight against guilds.
And if the guild doesn’t want to fight other guilds they can just go to there own server maps.

I don’t know if its abit clear what i wrote, but i hope you guys can understant my point of few and idea.

Grtz Unlike others

I wouldn’t even think that much about rewards. I guess everyone knows that WvW players are not here for the reward.

After all this is a competitive mode. Player versus player.
You are here to fight your enemies in a bloody and unforgiving war, not some paper gates.
I think at the moment the most important point for players is to disencourage pvd play. Which imo could be easily achieved by making a siege an actual siege. If you need 8 hours to upgrade a keep it shouldn’t be destroyed within 5 minutes. It has to be a big fight. You need to siege your enemy for hours, slowly drain their supplies until they desperatly fight to the last man. But it has to be hard. Imo the chances to take, say a fully upgraded t3 keep at equal numbers should at least be 75/25 favoring the defense.
That’s how a mass pvp should be like imo.

Rewards and scoring systems don’t matter if the actual combats are not worth it.
The more fun the gamemode is itself the less people care about rewards. Because victory is their reward.

@MadMan
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Guild_Wars
Enjoy reading.