Guild Wars 2

Downstate does not help the organized 5 man or 10 man. In a zergbusting situation, 9x out of 10 if you go down you die. That is why us skilled players dont rely on rally tactics to win but rather living. If we count a down as a death (esp as a guard, a warrior, a necro or any other CC based 2 ability) then we only have maybe 2 players that can actually have a shot at being rallied (mesmer and ele) I see all these little zergblobers saying oh downstate helps organized groups hurdurhur and frankly im sick of it. Obviously its not going to be changed but can we at least agree that downstate helps the zerg (esp with dumb rally mechanic) far more than it helps a zergbuster group.
We cannot rally our dead from stomped and fully dead, you can blob res them. we cannot afford to sit in AOEs and blob res downed players before a stomp is even possible. YOU can. (well you can try [enter nuke emoji])

Considering your post on necros in the conditions op thread, I’m questioning the “us skilled players” part.

No matter if OP is skilled or not, he/she speaks truly.

However, while removing the downed mechanic would most likely demand more balancing as the game is designed around having it, i suggest that players are only able to ress their fully dead (aka hardress) while out of combat.

Being able to hardress in combat is what really favors the zerg as it can always dispatch people to ress while the same is not true for the smaller group.

You (OP) obviously have absolutely no clue about “skilled” gameplay when you talk about zerg busting as if it was something which required special talents and abilities. Get off your high horse and broaden your insight a little, maybe we can then talk about skillful play… /shrug

lavra: As a fan of your group I expected a different view on the subject, as some of your group’s clips show how you utilize the rallying mechanisms in your favour against superior forces…

Yeah, that’s why i’m for keeping the downed state as is and remove hardressing in combat. My post kinda looks different i realize now.

But good to hear that we have fans now, Jathres will be pleased, i guess ^^

/edit: Also removing downed state would make WvW duelling quite a pain ^^ Since the warrior numbers have risen (and there’s no point even starting a fight with them as they will flee and are uncatchable for me anyway) it’s basically the only thing i’m doing.

Maybe you are just bad resser (is that even word?). Often smaller group win just because of downed state.

Iavra.8510:

Yeah, that’s why i’m for keeping the downed state as is and remove hardressing in combat.

I’ve mixed feelings about it, since it’s also a mechanism which we sometimes utilize when roaming with 3+ gals and guys. If the opponents does not disturb the healer, I think it’s their fault. What I already suggested in another topic is DR the more people ressurect one player. For small groups this wouldn’t change anything, but it would make it harder for bigger groups to hard-rez their folks.

Due to the sometimes strange OOC-determinition, it wouldn’t make much sense to only allow hard-rezzing when OOC, because in small scale fights you sometimes have to travel half the map until you get out of combat, but in large zerg fights you are 2 steps away from your opponents and suddenly get out of it. Until they fix the sometimes weird OOC-conditions this would benefit large zergs even more.

Iavra.8510:

But good to hear that we have fans now, Jathres will be pleased, i guess ^^

A big step forward towards conquering the world, I guess…

Tell you what. You pay for their game purchase and gems, then you can tell the zerglings what to do.

borrok.9267:

Considering your post on necros in the conditions op thread, I’m questioning the “us skilled players” part.

you obviously have no idea what you are talking about, your probably a zerging necro and your now blocked you didnt read. I explained how to outplay a warrior never gave my opinion

Epic.3950:

Downstate does not help the organized 5 man or 10 man. In a zergbusting situation, 9x out of 10 if you go down you die. That is why us skilled players dont rely on rally tactics to win but rather living. If we count a down as a death (esp as a guard, a warrior, a necro or any other CC based 2 ability) then we only have maybe 2 players that can actually have a shot at being rallied (mesmer and ele) I see all these little zergblobers saying oh downstate helps organized groups hurdurhur and frankly im sick of it. Obviously its not going to be changed but can we at least agree that downstate helps the zerg (esp with dumb rally mechanic) far more than it helps a zergbuster group.
We cannot rally our dead from stomped and fully dead, you can blob res them. we cannot afford to sit in AOEs and blob res downed players before a stomp is even possible. YOU can. (well you can try [enter nuke emoji])

I do not care about downed state, just rally. Get rid of rally, be nice to combat res a lot slower than it is, but whatever just get rid of rally.

It’s an interesting mechanic that creates great risk vs. reward scenarios. Besides, mediocre players will always complain while advanced players are already working on beating it.

Zerg busting forces usually have 3-4 banner warriors to rally downed to keep fighting. It’s a great mechanic for smaller forces. Sure, you eventually get overwhelmed by superior numbers (they have to be vastly superior and decently organised), but you sure as hell can make a fight of it.

The game isn’t purely about wvw. Downed state can change a battle in PvP completely if people aren’t making their stomps and the people losing rally off of someone else.

Lets put in a very small fight.

1 vs 2

Downed state help the 2 guys, not the outnumbered one. Downed state help the unskilled team, is an undo for a mistake, is a forgiven for a punishment. But it help to most larger team, because is more easy to save something with more ppl, and easy to finish someone in downed state with more ppl. And harder for the outnumbered team to finishing a downed one.

And in small fights, some classes are useless in the ground, and another ones are pretty op with really high damage, and, like the underwater combat, devs never balance it.

Cush.4063:

The game isn’t purely about wvw. Downed state can change a battle in PvP completely if people aren’t making their stomps and the people losing rally off of someone else.

And the fact that it acts as a soft counter to heavy burst is still really useful.

Reverence.6915:

Zerg busting forces usually have 3-4 banner warriors to rally downed to keep fighting. It’s a great mechanic for smaller forces. Sure, you eventually get overwhelmed by superior numbers (they have to be vastly superior and decently organised), but you sure as hell can make a fight of it.

If a zerg busting force has more than one rally banner they are a zerg themselves.

The fact of the matter is ANet will never and i mean NEVER remove the downed state due to having to refund thousands of dollars from finishers players bought in the store! Like it or not its a money thing!

Jaxs.5830:

Reverence.6915:

Zerg busting forces usually have 3-4 banner warriors to rally downed to keep fighting. It’s a great mechanic for smaller forces. Sure, you eventually get overwhelmed by superior numbers (they have to be vastly superior and decently organised), but you sure as hell can make a fight of it.

If a zerg busting force has more than one rally banner they are a zerg themselves.

Signet of rage gives very little party support. If you’re in a zerg busting group running as a warrior, you’re going to want to run war banner for support purposes, or else you’re giving no party support at all, which defeats the whole purpose of comping up for zerg busting. There’s no party boons otherwise unless you’re running other banners.

flyro is right but if the man who killed the guy automatly put a finisher in the dead guy…

Junkpile.7439:

Maybe you are just bad resser (is that even word?). Often smaller group win just because of downed state.

You should try to play in a non zerg group at least once it would help you from saying such BS

Downed state is fine, rally mechanics is not. Rally mechanics favors larger groups/zergs (even if you manage to down someone chances that to finish him are non-existant)

They need to change it so 1 person can only rally 1 opponent withing 600 range, not entire enemy zerg on the other side of the map.

Problem solved.

I see no problem with rally and the fact that numbers have an advantage.
We wiped groups 3 times our size with skill coordination and movement.

A big zerg has a plus with dps / aoe but it can be countered with terrain and siege help.

In the open field, it’s natural to get crushed by numbers, it’s where they can organize easily.

The vast majority of mechanics in multiplayer game naturally favor the larger group simply because:
1. A larger group is able to do X more.
2. A larger group is able to do X and Y simultaneously.

Really good, tight groups can use the downed state as rally insurance. But, from time to time, they too will fall victim to the fifth law of thermodynamics: quantity has a quality all of its own. Regardless, if a small group’s commander is repeatedly putting it in a position where it’s being wiped by a zerg, then the group has deeper issues than the downed state.

Conversely, in GvG and blob on blob situations, I suggest that good commanders consider downed players – enemy and friendly – when calling their next move. Imo, the downed state adds complexity to large group clashes.

This doesn’t mean the mechanics can’t be tightened, but it should be done in a way that preserves the value of the downed state as a factor in large group fights.

Ymmv.

Epic.3950:

Downstate does not help the organized 5 man or 10 man. In a zergbusting situation, 9x out of 10 if you go down you die. That is why us skilled players dont rely on rally tactics to win but rather living. If we count a down as a death (esp as a guard, a warrior, a necro or any other CC based 2 ability) then we only have maybe 2 players that can actually have a shot at being rallied (mesmer and ele) I see all these little zergblobers saying oh downstate helps organized groups hurdurhur and frankly im sick of it. Obviously its not going to be changed but can we at least agree that downstate helps the zerg (esp with dumb rally mechanic) far more than it helps a zergbuster group.
We cannot rally our dead from stomped and fully dead, you can blob res them. we cannot afford to sit in AOEs and blob res downed players before a stomp is even possible. YOU can. (well you can try [enter nuke emoji])

Actually skilled players understand the downed mechanic and adapt their strategy. You clearly are not one of them.

Rally and resurrection are the problems. Downed state without rally is fine. Allowing zergs to reconstitute their losses immediately after a fight is what keeps them rolling.

Removing the ability to rez fully dead would actually be a lot better. It allows smaller forces to whittle down a zerg. It makes commanders take pause when bringing a zerg far from WPs — putting some more strategy into the game.

Best of all, it’s easy to implement and has no direct negative effects on the precious gemstore (compared to removing downstate and finishers). IMO, it’s worth at least a trial period.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Removing the ability to rez fully dead would actually be a lot better. It allows smaller forces to whittle down a zerg. It makes commanders take pause when bringing a zerg far from WPs — putting some more strategy into the game.

Best of all, it’s easy to implement and has no direct negative effects on the precious gemstore (compared to removing downstate and finishers). IMO, it’s worth at least a trial period.

Actually, this is a good idea.

Rally is a problem because the more people doing damage to someone, the more people with chance to rally on down.

To rally on someone’s death you should have to hit a minimum damage threshold. The smaller your group, the more average % damage you will be doing to players, and the more likely a rally. The larger your group, the less overall damage % you contribute, and therefore the less chance of rally.

Preventing resizing the fully dead would be a massive step in the right direction with this. There were multiple times just this past weekend where my group inflicted big damage on bigger groups, but rezzing allowed them to multiply even more and overwhelmed us.

If you get spiked or die after being downed, you shouldn’t be able to get back in the fight. This would also make people run back in a fight instead of waiting around while dead for someone to rub them back to life. Could make less nameplates in big fights, too.

Epic.3950:

us skilled players

this

Reverence.6915:

Jaxs.5830:

Reverence.6915:

Zerg busting forces usually have 3-4 banner warriors to rally downed to keep fighting. It’s a great mechanic for smaller forces. Sure, you eventually get overwhelmed by superior numbers (they have to be vastly superior and decently organised), but you sure as hell can make a fight of it.

If a zerg busting force has more than one rally banner they are a zerg themselves.

Signet of rage gives very little party support. If you’re in a zerg busting group running as a warrior, you’re going to want to run war banner for support purposes, or else you’re giving no party support at all, which defeats the whole purpose of comping up for zerg busting. There’s no party boons otherwise unless you’re running other banners.

If you are large enough group to have 3-4 warriors just on support than you are a zerg. Not sure what the rest of your blah blah blah about support warriors is about, like that is their only viable role.

Cry thread gets meme’d