Guild Wars 2

As the mixed Borderlands is adopted, i think Anet should work on the 3rd borderland map after the WvW score overhaul. I hope it can be finished before the next expansion.

If they make a 3rd bl it needs to be live tested in eotm before being added to WvW. We don’t need the dbl situation all over again.

I was thinking about last night and what kind of map it would be. What I had in mind would be an urban/ruined city kind of map, essentially a mix of Orr, Old Ascalon, and maybe something like Thaumanova thrown in. With that said, they’ll probably add a 3rd map by the time the next xpac comes out.

Well the problem with testing the map would be the Dev’s don’t give a crap about feedback. DBL had plenty of feedback that they just blatantly ignored, if it wasn’t a bug or exploit they didn’t care.

There’s no point in testing something if the feedback is ignored, they may as well just slap something together and throw it into the rotation with an approved stamp on it.

They said that DBL took what, 1-2 years to make? That seems insane to me as they could have just taken any existing setting in the game (we got snow, jungle, grassland, orr, desert, plains, island and corruption) and reworked ABL around those visuals but nope.

I seriously doubt we will get a third map after the DBL debacle. And if we do… lets just say I question whether we want it.

I would not expect it before 2018

cpchow.7416:

As the mixed Borderlands is adopted, i think Anet should work on the 3rd borderland map after the WvW score overhaul. I hope it can be finished before the next expansion.

Given anets track history please no. At this point they just can’t be trusted with new content as they do not deliver or meet expectations. All talk no result.

You can have a 3rd borderland when everyone accepts the second one…. :P

Whatever it is, Anet, please take into account all the complaints about the DBl. Basically, make it the opposite of the DBL.

• Little to no verticality
• No maze like structure
• Structures must be able to be distinguished from the background
• Structures should be simple, obvious, a tower should look like a tower
• Easy navigation
• No gimmicks, i.e. no stealth fog, no jumping puzzles, nothing popping up in front of you, no lava, no quicksand, etcetera
• Little to no PvE
• Structures must serve a purpose besides simply PPT

Build it and they will come. (As long as you remember KISS)

About the design or theme. ABL is reminiscent of Prophecies. DBL of Nightfall. Hmm, what’s missing? That’s right, the next BL should be inspired by Cantha!

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

Xenesis.6389:

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

laughs

This seems to be exactly what people are asking for, that is kinda sad.

Xenesis.6389:

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

Remember that the towers shouldn’t give any PPT or any other buff, or any meaningful thing that could matter in the context of the match up. Oh and no guards and lord either.

Paavotar.3971:

Xenesis.6389:

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

Remember that the towers shouldn’t give any PPT or any other buff, or any meaningful thing that could matter in the context of the match up. Oh and no guards and lord either.

I forgot to mention it’s a chocolate chip cookie, which you find in a box in lords room unguarded.

The developers put a lot of effort into making the original Desert Borderlands and then updating it in response to feedback and people are still disproportionately toxic towards their work. I wouldn’t expect another borderlands as the community has shot itself in the foot.

Xenesis.6389:

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

Projectiles would still be obstructed 50% of the time….

Jim Hunter.6821:

Xenesis.6389:

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

Projectiles would still be obstructed 50% of the time….

I’ll have them trim the grass before every match.

Do hope that a third map is under way. As stated before in an ideal world would love to see 2 additional maps per year added and then they could be rotated weekly or some how linked.

Jim Hunter.6821:

If they make a 3rd bl it needs to be live tested in eotm before being added to WvW. We don’t need the dbl situation all over again.

They can test a new map in tandem. There are enough people that enjoy EoTM as is that it wouldn’t make sense to disrupt EoTM players game play if this is for the BLs. Besides based on forum posters there are different people that EoTM so wouldn’t you want BLers testing instead? ANet has shown with the mixed borderlands that they can add mixed maps. That said we also saw where limited testing did not meet various players expectations so how can you expect good tests without full player base access.

Johje Holan.4607:

Whatever it is, Anet, please take into account all the complaints about the DBl. Basically, make it the opposite of the DBL.

• Little to no verticality
• No maze like structure
• Structures must be able to be distinguished from the background
• Structures should be simple, obvious, a tower should look like a tower
• Easy navigation
• No gimmicks, i.e. no stealth fog, no jumping puzzles, nothing popping up in front of you, no lava, no quicksand, etcetera
• Little to no PvE
• Structures must serve a purpose besides simply PPT

Build it and they will come. (As long as you remember KISS)

About the design or theme. ABL is reminiscent of Prophecies. DBL of Nightfall. Hmm, what’s missing? That’s right, the next BL should be inspired by Cantha!

Disagree on some here. Look back at older posts pre-DBL and you will see that players were asking for maps more complex then ABL and bigger to combat zergs. Agree players weren’t asking for sky lasers but they were asking for objectives that were worth fighting over (aka had value or buffs), more paths and bottlenecks, varying terrain and more complex objectives. Other complaints were that a small amount of siege could cover an entire objective, sentries had no value and defenders couldn’t defend from atop walls. They were also asking for terrain that favored havoc over zerg and maps that required players to break into smaller groups to cover. And they were asking for more vertical maps, even if not in the sense that DBL delivered.

We do agree, more maps though mean more options and keeps the game fresher which will retain people.

TheGrimm.5624:

Do hope that a third map is under way. As stated before in an ideal world would love to see 2 additional maps per year added and then they could be rotated weekly or some how linked.

It’s most likely not, and won’t be until it’s selected as the priority choice, which won’t be until we get the next priority poll after the scoring changes are done. Also keep in mind, if they go into developing another map and your expectations is 2 per year, expect no other developments from wvw. Eotm took over a year to develop, I expect dbl took almost just as long.

TheGrimm.5624:

They can test a new map in tandem. There are enough people that enjoy EoTM as is that it wouldn’t make sense to disrupt EoTM players game play if this is for the BLs.

Besides based on forum posters there are different people that EoTM so wouldn’t you want BLers testing instead? ANet has shown with the mixed borderlands that they can add mixed maps. That said we also saw where limited testing did not meet various players expectations so how can you expect good tests without full player base access.

Dunno why anyone would want eotm to be a testing bed either, when it’s constantly labelled as “not the real wvw”, players who went in there just to level, so wvw alts, karma trainers, and pve players… that’s who we want to testing and giving input on new maps? They also tried testing dbl on it’s own in beta, and that turned out bad for participation.

TheGrimm.5624:

They were also asking for terrain that favored havoc over zerg and maps that required players to break into smaller groups to cover. And they were asking for more vertical maps, even if not in the sense that DBL delivered.

We do agree, more maps though mean more options and keeps the game fresher which will retain people.

They went overboard on what players were asking for. More chokes probably would have been ok, but larger map to force groups to break up while making it a pain for everyone else? while making structures more worthless? gimmicks galore all over to tie in with HoT that no one wanted, giant laser in the middle that was a lag failure.

I want new maps, but geez, maps designed for wvw like the originals not the HoT adventure bullfrog.

Xenesis.6389:

TheGrimm.5624:

Do hope that a third map is under way. As stated before in an ideal world would love to see 2 additional maps per year added and then they could be rotated weekly or some how linked.

It’s most likely not, and won’t be until it’s selected as the priority choice, which won’t be until we get the next priority poll after the scoring changes are done. Also keep in mind, if they go into developing another map and your expectations is 2 per year, expect no other developments from wvw. Eotm took over a year to develop, I expect dbl took almost just as long.

TheGrimm.5624:

They can test a new map in tandem. There are enough people that enjoy EoTM as is that it wouldn’t make sense to disrupt EoTM players game play if this is for the BLs.

Besides based on forum posters there are different people that EoTM so wouldn’t you want BLers testing instead? ANet has shown with the mixed borderlands that they can add mixed maps. That said we also saw where limited testing did not meet various players expectations so how can you expect good tests without full player base access.

Dunno why anyone would want eotm to be a testing bed either, when it’s constantly labelled as “not the real wvw”, players who went in there just to level, so wvw alts, karma trainers, and pve players… that’s who we want to testing and giving input on new maps? They also tried testing dbl on it’s own in beta, and that turned out bad for participation.

DBL turned out bad for participation because people hated the map and quit playing it after the first hour. No one I knew even showed up for the second test.

I suggested eotm because it’s original purpose was to be a testing ground for WvW and a place to play while waiting on queues…. but you guys are right, there are way too many PvE players in there to use it as a testing ground anymore.

I’m just hesitant to have them test it in WvW unless they are going to replace the dbl for a week or 2. I’m already getting both alpine bl’s queued on a regular basis thanks to the return of the desrted bl, I don’t want to be down to 1 alpine with a 60+ man queue if they screw up the new bl.

Xenesis.6389:

TheGrimm.5624:

Do hope that a third map is under way. As stated before in an ideal world would love to see 2 additional maps per year added and then they could be rotated weekly or some how linked.

It’s most likely not, and won’t be until it’s selected as the priority choice, which won’t be until we get the next priority poll after the scoring changes are done. Also keep in mind, if they go into developing another map and your expectations is 2 per year, expect no other developments from wvw. Eotm took over a year to develop, I expect dbl took almost just as long.

Agree here, but can still hope. Again, last WvW style game (Warhammer Online) had 27+3 maps to fight over. Needless to say there were die-hards fighting till the day the lights went out and that was 5 years of 7 days a week WvW fighting.

Jim Hunter.6821:

I suggested eotm because it’s original purpose was to be a testing ground for WvW and a place to play while waiting on queues…. but you guys are right, there are way too many PvE players in there to use it as a testing ground anymore.

I’m just hesitant to have them test it in WvW unless they are going to replace the dbl for a week or 2. I’m already getting both alpine bl’s queued on a regular basis thanks to the return of the desrted bl, I don’t want to be down to 1 alpine with a 60+ man queue if they screw up the new bl.

Agree, don’t want to disrupt anyone’s fun and having some queues is good, having to many in queue is bad. But I think they could test a new map beside the other 3 BLs and EBG. I am worried though if they don’t have it score with regular scoring people will not test since they might see it as a waste of time. Most people will say they will test, until you get to the testing and then they get to, what’s in it for me and does this help my server. So due to that, to me in needs to include some in line testing.

Not to mention, WvWers for the most part are slow to adapt, since they haven’t had to and without needing to that makes them slower to change which will turn most away until something has been out there for a bit. Even if the new map had been 100% liked by all it would be slow to pick up people since people would lean towards what they know. A lot of the player base that would try new things, are in other games trying new things after all.

Good hunting!

It was only a matter of time that this thread would pop up. What’s DBL been back in for less than 1 week?

I wouldn’t hold your breath for a new map anytime soon. Personally I don’t care because i will be on DBL learning the things for a good while.

Jim Hunter.6821:

DBL turned out bad for participation because people hated the map and quit playing it after the first hour. No one I knew even showed up for the second test.

Well, I was only there for the first couple hours in the first test, had other plans for rest of the time it was up so I don’t know how the rest went, but I did see quite a few “real wvw” guilds in there. But the second test was a failure because they also failed to properly inform players from the first test that they were still in the test, no emails were sent to them, only new invites. Not like the map had any significant changes to make anyone want to go back and try it either.

Hexinx.1872:

It was only a matter of time that this thread would pop up. What’s DBL been back in for less than 1 week?

I wouldn’t hold your breath for a new map anytime soon. Personally I don’t care because i will be on DBL learning the things for a good while.

Having a blast on DBL right now. But that doesn’t mean I don’t want development in works so that we can have a third distinctive map also added. Especially if it does require a significant time investment. And can also hope for a map that 95% of the people want to play on (not sure if that’s possible though).

There’s so many other things that should be fixed before they add something else to the mix that needs to be fixed :P That said, I don’t know why people want jungle. I’ve had enough of the jungle. Something different. We have summer/desert, we have the cold wintry mountains, why not something spring/sylvari-ish themed in the north, with vines/lakes/flowers/etc that gradually morphs into the more autumn-look of ascalon in the south? Covers all of the seasons that way

cpchow.7416:

As the mixed Borderlands is adopted, i think Anet should work on the 3rd borderland map after the WvW score overhaul. I hope it can be finished before the next expansion.

LOL! Are you fricking kidding me? You think ANET will give us a new map after the crying from the last one?

We will never get a new wvwvw map. The wvwvw community has themselves to blame for that.

4 more years!

I wish I was joking but based on the release of the DBLs, 3-4 years.
But dont forget that 3 years ago Devon did say it only takes 6-8 months, IF they had a team working on it, not the intern they currently have working on WvW on their spare time!

ionix.9054:

cpchow.7416:

As the mixed Borderlands is adopted, i think Anet should work on the 3rd borderland map after the WvW score overhaul. I hope it can be finished before the next expansion.

LOL! Are you fricking kidding me? You think ANET will give us a new map after the crying from the last one?

We will never get a new wvwvw map. The wvwvw community has themselves to blame for that.

And no Anet is to blame, for lying to us for 4 years! For not working on WvW at all except when some devs had spare time!
They refused to listen to us, then created CDIs to claim to listen to us, then didnt even listen to us in them! And continued to not listen to us, and now we have these silly polls where the options are things they want, not what we want!

Anet is to blame for everything wrong with the game, they are after-all the developers of the game, it’s not like we coded the game or lied to ourselves!

Hesacon.8735:

The developers put a lot of effort into making the original Desert Borderlands and then updating it in response to feedback and people are still disproportionately toxic towards their work. I wouldn’t expect another borderlands as the community has shot itself in the foot.

I’d be amazed if the DBL was anything other than a spare half finished map for the continuation of ‘Living World’ that was binned when they stopped the two week updates to it.

Then it was rehashed into a BL. It just feels like the next map after Dry Top, but with all the gliding taken out.

And the devs ignored most of the feedback from the players who tested it and released it anyway.

I don’t think they have anyone even thinking about a third map at the moment- and if they do, it’s in a pile of other work which is labelled more important such as ’ change colour on left foot of NPC 3036786 in Lion’s Arch’. or ‘design more outfits’.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

4 more years!

I wish I was joking but based on the release of the DBLs, 3-4 years.
But dont forget that 3 years ago Devon did say it only takes 6-8 months, IF they had a team working on it, not the intern they currently have working on WvW on their spare time!

ionix.9054:

cpchow.7416:

As the mixed Borderlands is adopted, i think Anet should work on the 3rd borderland map after the WvW score overhaul. I hope it can be finished before the next expansion.

LOL! Are you fricking kidding me? You think ANET will give us a new map after the crying from the last one?

We will never get a new wvwvw map. The wvwvw community has themselves to blame for that.

And no Anet is to blame, for lying to us for 4 years! For not working on WvW at all except when some devs had spare time!
They refused to listen to us, then created CDIs to claim to listen to us, then didnt even listen to us in them! And continued to not listen to us, and now we have these silly polls where the options are things they want, not what we want!

Anet is to blame for everything wrong with the game, they are after-all the developers of the game, it’s not like we coded the game or lied to ourselves!

It took them 3 years to give us a map. They gave us a map and every single one of you complained about it. So they removed it.

Wonder how much money was wasted on develop.ent time? They won’t consider another map. Sorry the truth hurts.

ionix.9054:

It took them 3 years to give us a map. They gave us a map and every single one of you complained about it. So they removed it.

Wonder how much money was wasted on develop.ent time? They won’t consider another map. Sorry the truth hurts.

You want to know the real truth?

First of all it didnt take them 3 years to make the DBLs, prob 6 months max

After 3 years of ignoring us thanks to the China release, Living Story and developing HoT; the devs realised that no WvW would buy HoT if it didnt have a new map minimum!

So they assigned some interns to make a map.
However, since all the original WvW have left long ago, and Anet’s push for PvE meant noone knew what a WvW should look like.
So they created a huge map with more PvE in it than ever before for WvW. Even though for the last 3 years we complained about moving the little there is in the Alpine maps.
They invited people to test it, and even there players said there were issues with the map.
Anet, in their great wisdom as always, ignored what those people had to say and released the map as it.

All these complaints are completely justified on these forums. And I can bet you the most minimal amount of resources were spent on making the DBL. Cos if you hadnt read in past threads, some of the things WvW gets is from people like Hugh who spend some of their own spare time adding to WvW, i.e. Management didnt pay for or come up with it, but since some devs were kind enough to do it, and Anet thought “Hey this’ll make it seem like we’re actually doing stuff for WvW”, they approved it.

And dont forget that all important Devon reddit post after he left, he admitted that he hadnt worked on anything related to WvW since March 2015!!!

Xenesis.6389:

Paavotar.3971:

Xenesis.6389:

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

Remember that the towers shouldn’t give any PPT or any other buff, or any meaningful thing that could matter in the context of the match up. Oh and no guards and lord either.

I forgot to mention it’s a chocolate chip cookie, which you find in a box in lords room unguarded.

oh ya! Now you’re talking… and now I can attack with NO gear or weapons.. .just judo toss the lord down and step on his head. Now THAT sounds like such a FUN game!… :P

Seriously … For those people that want ‘simple’… find some game you can get the cheat codes on and win your butts off.. Otherwise LEARN to play in WvW.. It’s not near as bad as the people who can’t fight say it is. .. and hey.. I am NOT a great WvW fighter… young people kick my butt all the time because regardless of how well I know my class I still can’t react like most players can.

It’s not about the build (‘cept maybe stealthed thiefs – cheesy)… It’s more about whether or not you can actually PLAY your class properly… i m o!

TheGrimm.5624:

Johje Holan.4607:

Whatever it is, Anet, please take into account all the complaints about the DBl. Basically, make it the opposite of the DBL.

• Little to no verticality
• No maze like structure
• Structures must be able to be distinguished from the background
• Structures should be simple, obvious, a tower should look like a tower
• Easy navigation
• No gimmicks, i.e. no stealth fog, no jumping puzzles, nothing popping up in front of you, no lava, no quicksand, etcetera
• Little to no PvE
• Structures must serve a purpose besides simply PPT

Build it and they will come. (As long as you remember KISS)

About the design or theme. ABL is reminiscent of Prophecies. DBL of Nightfall. Hmm, what’s missing? That’s right, the next BL should be inspired by Cantha!

Disagree on some here. Look back at older posts pre-DBL and you will see that players were asking for maps more complex then ABL and bigger to combat zergs. Agree players weren’t asking for sky lasers but they were asking for objectives that were worth fighting over (aka had value or buffs), more paths and bottlenecks, varying terrain and more complex objectives. Other complaints were that a small amount of siege could cover an entire objective, sentries had no value and defenders couldn’t defend from atop walls. They were also asking for terrain that favored havoc over zerg and maps that required players to break into smaller groups to cover. And they were asking for more vertical maps, even if not in the sense that DBL delivered.

We do agree, more maps though mean more options and keeps the game fresher which will retain people.

I’m sure some players asked for lots of things. Heck, you’ve got players asking for a jungle map with paths and foliage blocking the view. But that would be a horrible idea given the complaints about DBL.

Choke points to combat zergs doesn’t mean make the entire map a maze. I remember specific suggestions of having a choke leading up to a tower for example. The main complaint about zergs relating to map design was that they could move faster than small groups or solos. But that has to do with swiftness stacking.

And everytime someone suggested verticality, others chimed in to strongly disagree. One reason EBG is so popular is the ease of travel and lack of verticality. I come from a heavy EBG server, and back in the day one of the things I kept hearing about why people didn’t want to go to the ABL is that its too vertical. People said they kept falling off the cliffs. I was astounded because ABL is not that vertical – just coming from Citadel and around Hills – and even that caused people to never want to go there.

The thing with a new map is if some people ask for something they think would be cool, but its going to kitten off half the rest of the folks, that thing shouldn’t go in the map. You’ve got to be conservative with a new map. Plus, the simpler the map the easier and quicker it could be made I would think.

lol you actually believed them? they only said it so people would vote to keep DBL instead of scrapping it.

Just re skin EBG into a primitive more forested (LOS) /swampy style and call it a day. Good jobs boys, let’s go have a pint!

DBL is fine, will take some getting used to… players gonna fall from cliffs no matter how many big flashy warnings you put on there screen.

Hexinx.1872:

DBL is fine, will take some getting used to… players gonna fall from cliffs no matter how many big flashy warnings you put on there screen.

Not if the cliffs aren’t there in the first place.

People find all sorts of ways to die. Jump from keeps, towers, whatever they can. Most of the time it happens cause they have there inv open or another panel. Sometimes … it’s just cause the pin did it, which baffles me.

ionix.9054:

cpchow.7416:

As the mixed Borderlands is adopted, i think Anet should work on the 3rd borderland map after the WvW score overhaul. I hope it can be finished before the next expansion.

LOL! Are you fricking kidding me? You think ANET will give us a new map after the crying from the last one?

We will never get a new wvwvw map. The wvwvw community has themselves to blame for that.

Or, the dev’s for making a horrid map? The dev’s for not having public beta’s before releasing it? The Dev’s for not removing or “rotating it” out when there was so much backlash and participation fall off from it? Pick your poison but, the DBL was, is, and continues to be, WvW poison.

For a third map, there isn’t one! There isn’t even one being planned from what we’ve been told. Come back and asked in another year or more.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Xenesis.6389:

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

Projectiles would still be obstructed 50% of the time….

Temper your optimism.

Xenesis.6389:

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

I would like see how a city map works in WvW.

Something along the lines of Divinity’s Reach, Ebonhawke or the Black Citadel but with the standard set of objectives.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Xenesis.6389:

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

I would like see how a city map works in WvW.

Something along the lines of Divinity’s Reach, Ebonhawke or the Black Citadel but with the standard set of objectives.

Black Citadel, are you kidding me? I can’t even stand to set foot in that place. Ugly and convoluted. The opposite of what we need in WvW.

I always thought Air keep was city-like already. Needs some merchants selling odds and ends though.

Actually something like Auric Basin works for me better. I always like nature themes.

Johje Holan.4607:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Xenesis.6389:

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

I would like see how a city map works in WvW.

Something along the lines of Divinity’s Reach, Ebonhawke or the Black Citadel but with the standard set of objectives.

Black Citadel, are you kidding me? I can’t even stand to set foot in that place. Ugly and convoluted. The opposite of what we need in WvW.

Aesthetics are irrelevant – I was talking conceptually.

I mean a tighter map where people are going to run into each other but roamers/havoc can avoid zergs by taking back streets, tunnels etc.

Wide maps like deserted BL are not fun – so I think a tight map like a city would be worth a try.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Johje Holan.4607:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Xenesis.6389:

A flat grassland with 3 towers (just straight stairs leading to a room with no walls, when you capture the tower you get a cookie). Done!

I would like see how a city map works in WvW.

Something along the lines of Divinity’s Reach, Ebonhawke or the Black Citadel but with the standard set of objectives.

Black Citadel, are you kidding me? I can’t even stand to set foot in that place. Ugly and convoluted. The opposite of what we need in WvW.

Aesthetics are irrelevant – I was talking conceptually.

I mean a tighter map where people are going to run into each other but roamers/havoc can avoid zergs by taking back streets, tunnels etc.

Wide maps like deserted BL are not fun – so I think a tight map like a city would be worth a try.

That’s the battle concept in a map. I think the designer needs to envision where the battles should be and what kind of battles can be fought. Like choke points, slight terrain elevation etc. The map design needs to consider actual class skills too. Which is why the designer would be better in his design if he actually plays or commands in wvw. I guess skins can come once the terrain is better designed.

cpchow.7416:

As the mixed Borderlands is adopted, i think Anet should work on the 3rd borderland map after the WvW score overhaul. I hope it can be finished before the next expansion.

I hope NEVER or at least not until all the major issues of WvWvW are solved. By the major issues I mean:
- lack of quality rewards
- population imbalance
- profession/skill imbalance
- sometimes massive lag and bugs

Desert Borderlands is really not an asset to WvWvW, but a detriment and pretty much all the major WvWvW guilds seem to agree with me and rather queue to Alpine border or EBG. Desert is a simply map, which is NOT fun to play. I could say the same for EotM. I rather have 3 Alpine instead of the current 1 DBL + 2 ABL mix.

I don’t understand the hate for the DBL’s… since Anet removed some of the more annoying functions of the map (barricades and the lag inducing map event) it was pretty solid.

I like the “new” Tower Lords as they actually seem to be unique, and interesting to fight. Unlike the samey Tower Lords in the ABL’s. Same goes for the Keep Lords.

I also like that there seems to be more avenues of approach across the map than in the alpines (though that could just be more subjective).

Does it take a little longer to get around, sure, but is it really THAT much longer? I doubt it.

I’d rather take the DBL over the ABL anyday

Karnasis.6892:

I don’t understand the hate for the DBL’s… since Anet removed some of the more annoying functions of the map (barricades and the lag inducing map event) it was pretty solid.

I like the “new” Tower Lords as they actually seem to be unique, and interesting to fight. Unlike the samey Tower Lords in the ABL’s. Same goes for the Keep Lords.

I also like that there seems to be more avenues of approach across the map than in the alpines (though that could just be more subjective).

Does it take a little longer to get around, sure, but is it really THAT much longer? I doubt it.

I’d rather take the DBL over the ABL anyday

Does it remind you of the T8 maps from whence you came, dearie? Miles of running around without seeing anyone?