Guild Wars 2

Hi all, new Phat Seals commentary video —

Where are all the female commanders at!?

Liked most of the points you brought up.
Can’t speak for commanders, let alone female comms cause neither do I command nor am I a girl,

However, I kinda feel like there are some sexist assumptions out there that a female gamer can’t perform as well as a male gamer. I repeatedly see people say women are better at supporty characters (none leading roles).

This isn’t something I’ve seen in just gw2, but seems to me is a problem in the enitre gaming world.

I can be completely off the map, but I guess this ould be partly why some people stay away from commanding?

( correct me if I’m wrong)

I think one of the points you made can go both ways. People are very terrified to command and being we most likely have more men than women gamers in wvw, the statistics get even worse for females. Don’ t know the exact number but let’s be honest, I’d be willing to bet the gap between male and female player base is pretty significant.

One of the best commanders I ever followed was from BG. Don’t remember the girls toon name but she wasn’t super knowledgeable. However, what I noticed about her she was SIMPLE. She had a certain comfort style and just kept it very simplistic that the group seemed to work amazingly well. I think she said at one point “ummm DROP THE FIRE HERE, omg we’re getting our a* kicked let’s run!” and made us laugh and have a good time. I’d rather have a commander who is just simple, fun, and easy going than most of the tryhards who yell at people in map chat or teamspeak. It’s a game, remember that.

Cant speak for other servers, but BG does have several female commanders. KnT I know definitely does, and XVX has a couple female commanders. We try to encourage everyone who has an interest in commanding, to try it out, and we support them however we can.

As for myself…

I find myself getting ignored/interrupted/mansplained at to the point where any commanding is unfeasable.

That said, there are some female commanders, but they have a way higher tolerance (than me) for kitten like that, because I’ve heard the same issues when following them.

Camdal.6197:

As for myself…

I find myself getting ignored/interrupted/mansplained at to the point where any commanding is unfeasable.

That said, there are some female commanders, but they have a way higher tolerance (than me) for kitten like that, because I’ve heard the same issues when following them.

You do have a point, many females do feel like they either need to speak over everyone to be heard, or just tend to stay quiet so they don’t sound funny, or say anything “dumb”, etc etc.

I used to lead a guild with over 300 people, and I always tried to encourage females in the guild to be more active and try to feel more comfortable. It could be little things like just tagging up for a world event while we help them lead it, or to tag up during a guild mission etc. Sometimes its just a process, where you have to take little steps to build up a comfort level. It’s important to help build confidence in themselves as well, that way they will be more comfortable. And that’s true for males as well that are more shy and quiet until they can get more used to people they play with.

Interesting. Fear of failing aside, unfortunately, the traits that create leaders are often associated with masculinity so I think a lot of women have learned to shy away from these or risk hurting their feminine and thus social value. This kind of gets in the way of “getting good” when people would opt for protecting your feelings and or hitting on you instead offering real critique. This seems to be really bad in larger groups because they tend to be impersonal and laced with stereotypes. Of the few who step up to lead the masses, I can see why even fewer are women.

On the smaller scale skirmish scene I’ve noticed that there are more women taking the wheel because the setting is more intimate and comfortable. The walls come down and I hear you can be as aggressive and as nerdy as you want. So I hear. >.>

Because people don’t listen and it gets really frustrating. A lot of them (mainly the underage ones) seem go into shock when they hear a female voice.

This certainly could have been an interesting and enlightening conversation – if it had been framed as an open thread inviting women who command in WvW to describe their own experiences to the community.

Food for thought.

I do know several wvw guilds that are led by females, and there are many pve ones that have female guild leaders. So the leadership qualities are not lacking. What I think it comes down to is more about how comfortable and confident you feel. WvW requires a lot of fast thinking, being aggressive, but also staying calm, regardless male or female commanding is not for everyone. You have to ask yourself are you able to be comfortable with people hearing your voice in comms, whether they hear it for the first time or hundredth. Are you comfortable with making a mistake and feel confident about moving on, not dwelling and not letting people heckle you over it. Are you comfortable with not letting your emotions take over and staying calm, and feel confident enough to stay focused. Are you comfortable with speaking over people, and feel confident about giving commands and being assertive.

There’s no discussion to be had. Less women play games than men, and that holds true for this game.

Secondly, there’s a lot of weird men who play this game who any women would be wise to shy away from. This game is a sausagefest just like any game.

X T D.6458:

Camdal.6197:

As for myself…

I find myself getting ignored/interrupted/mansplained at to the point where any commanding is unfeasable.

That said, there are some female commanders, but they have a way higher tolerance (than me) for kitten like that, because I’ve heard the same issues when following them.

You do have a point, many females do feel like they either need to speak over everyone to be heard, or just tend to stay quiet so they don’t sound funny, or say anything “dumb”, etc etc.

… Commanders do need to talk over people, otherwise those certain people will continue to talk. That isn’t a gender issue, it’s a control issue.

Cloud.7613:

X T D.6458:

Camdal.6197:

As for myself…

I find myself getting ignored/interrupted/mansplained at to the point where any commanding is unfeasable.

That said, there are some female commanders, but they have a way higher tolerance (than me) for kitten like that, because I’ve heard the same issues when following them.

You do have a point, many females do feel like they either need to speak over everyone to be heard, or just tend to stay quiet so they don’t sound funny, or say anything “dumb”, etc etc.

… Commanders do need to talk over people, otherwise those certain people will continue to talk. That isn’t a gender issue, it’s a control issue.

That’s not what I meant…It’s a general perception. There is a difference between feeling like you constantly have to talk over everyone to be heard, and people shutting up when you talk.

Cloud.7613:

X T D.6458:

Camdal.6197:

As for myself…

I find myself getting ignored/interrupted/mansplained at to the point where any commanding is unfeasable.

That said, there are some female commanders, but they have a way higher tolerance (than me) for kitten like that, because I’ve heard the same issues when following them.

You do have a point, many females do feel like they either need to speak over everyone to be heard, or just tend to stay quiet so they don’t sound funny, or say anything “dumb”, etc etc.

… Commanders do need to talk over people, otherwise those certain people will continue to talk. That isn’t a gender issue, it’s a control issue.

http://time.com/3666135/sheryl-sandberg-talking-while-female-manterruptions/

Chaba.5410:

Cloud.7613:

X T D.6458:

Camdal.6197:

As for myself…

I find myself getting ignored/interrupted/mansplained at to the point where any commanding is unfeasable.

That said, there are some female commanders, but they have a way higher tolerance (than me) for kitten like that, because I’ve heard the same issues when following them.

You do have a point, many females do feel like they either need to speak over everyone to be heard, or just tend to stay quiet so they don’t sound funny, or say anything “dumb”, etc etc.

… Commanders do need to talk over people, otherwise those certain people will continue to talk. That isn’t a gender issue, it’s a control issue.

http://time.com/3666135/sheryl-sandberg-talking-while-female-manterruptions/

That is quite the interesting read.

X T D.6458:

I do know several wvw guilds that are led by females, and there are many pve ones that have female guild leaders. So the leadership qualities are not lacking. What I think it comes down to is more about how comfortable and confident you feel. WvW requires a lot of fast thinking, being aggressive, but also staying calm, regardless male or female commanding is not for everyone. You have to ask yourself are you able to be comfortable with people hearing your voice in comms, whether they hear it for the first time or hundredth. Are you comfortable with making a mistake and feel confident about moving on, not dwelling and not letting people heckle you over it. Are you comfortable with not letting your emotions take over and staying calm, and feel confident enough to stay focused. Are you comfortable with speaking over people, and feel confident about giving commands and being assertive.

It’s partially about confidence. It’s also partially about some people (men and women alike) having issues with women even being assertive much less aggressive or straight up dominant. Yes there are some female guild leads but it doesn’t mean that women aren’t being discouraged from leading in general. Plus it’s the internet, it gets a bit annoying and counterproductive when you have to constantly set boundaries because creeps start creeping.

Chaba.5410:

Cloud.7613:

X T D.6458:

Camdal.6197:

As for myself…

I find myself getting ignored/interrupted/mansplained at to the point where any commanding is unfeasable.

That said, there are some female commanders, but they have a way higher tolerance (than me) for kitten like that, because I’ve heard the same issues when following them.

You do have a point, many females do feel like they either need to speak over everyone to be heard, or just tend to stay quiet so they don’t sound funny, or say anything “dumb”, etc etc.

… Commanders do need to talk over people, otherwise those certain people will continue to talk. That isn’t a gender issue, it’s a control issue.

http://time.com/3666135/sheryl-sandberg-talking-while-female-manterruptions/

It’s why I tend to have a lot of respect for women who rise to the top in typically male-dominated careers.

That said, EU has a good amount of female commanders. Some on my server are the preferred commanders for many.

the answer is very simple: female are in general more emotive than men, this is the main reason holding them from commanding. Off course there are exceptions to this, but i think men are more like “who cares” and keep commanding, even when they fail.
I feel like a fail is hurting more a female commander than a male one.

Unfortunately, the creeper thing is a real issue. Even as a guy, I get really creeped out because people can act very strange when they seem to be like OMGZ A GURL. It really doesn’t help when people blurt out insensitive kitten and the such.

Yea I know it’s the internet, but trying to justify that is also why a lot of people won’t touch those same netfolk with a ten foot pole.

JQ is known for having female commanders. We have a lot of strong women on JQ.

ArchonWing.9480:

Unfortunately, the creeper thing is a real issue. Even as a guy, I get really creeped out because people can act very strange when they seem to be like OMGZ A GURL. It really doesn’t help when people blurt out insensitive kitten and the such.

Yea I know it’s the internet, but trying to justify that is also why a lot of people won’t touch those same netfolk with a ten foot pole.

Precisely. And those creepy types are also why the attention-seeking women get what they want. So you end up with a dysfunctional bunch of creepy men and attention-seeking women, which can turn into a disaster.

Thankfully there’s plenty of normal people of both genders who just want to play the game with other people because they enjoy the game and they enjoy interacting with other players.

Study the ratio of men to women in this game before you act like there’s no female commanders. Male commanders will always be most common because this game is a sausagefest. And I don’t even know why I’m still commenting on here, lol.

gennyt.3428:

It’s partially about confidence. It’s also partially about some people (men and women alike) having issues with women even being assertive much less aggressive or straight up dominant.

Eh, looks like there could be a Dunning-Kruger effect, which I would presume is a cause for the interruptions.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/05/the-confidence-gap/359815/

Jayne.9251:

Ogre.3124:

Where are all the female commanders at!?

Girls have a lesser developed frontal lobe than males which accounts for spatial awareness and spatial intelligence. Then there’s testosterone which is attributable to leadership qualities such as confidence. Women by nature are not good leaders

Say what?!

Oh right. Maguuma.

According to Dunning-Kruger, men often don’t know how dumb they are.

Helys Vikonas.9125:

Ogre.3124:

Where are all the female commanders at!?

Girls have lesser developed frontal lobes than males which accounts for spatial awareness and spatial intelligence. Then there’s testosterone which is attributable to leadership qualities such as confidence. Women by nature are not good leaders

You forgot the part about them being physically weaker, making them less able to smash keyboard buttons during fights, which is absolutely crucial for any commander.

Sarcasm aside, I mostly agree with what has been said in several other posts above. I believe girls are rarer because they are fewer playing, and because of the weirdness and stupid remarks from a few people that are to be expected to happen in command situations. I dunno if a girl would feel glad to go online to have fun and get a break, only to find the same sexist stuff thrown as them as irl.

There’s actually a study done in 2014 I believe that pegged female gamers at 56% of the gaming population. Fastest growth demographic compared to as little as five years ago. I’ll see if I can’t dig it up.

Chaba.5410:

Jayne.9251:

Ogre.3124:

Where are all the female commanders at!?

Girls have a lesser developed frontal lobe than males which accounts for spatial awareness and spatial intelligence. Then there’s testosterone which is attributable to leadership qualities such as confidence. Women by nature are not good leaders

Say what?!

Oh right. Maguuma.

According to Dunning-Kruger, men often don’t know how dumb they are.

As long as they put down the toilet seat it’s all good. They can believe what they want

Jayne.9251:

Chaba.5410:

Jayne.9251:

Ogre.3124:

Where are all the female commanders at!?

Girls have a lesser developed frontal lobe than males which accounts for spatial awareness and spatial intelligence. Then there’s testosterone which is attributable to leadership qualities such as confidence. Women by nature are not good leaders

Say what?!

Oh right. Maguuma.

According to Dunning-Kruger, men often don’t know how dumb they are.

As long as they put down the toilet seat it’s all good. They can believe what they want

Basically the stupid lack the self awareness and intelligence to recognise their own stupidity, and therefore assume they’re intelligent.

Guess Chaba has Ogre pegged.

Jayne.9251:

Helys Vikonas.9125:

Sarcasm aside, I mostly agree with what has been said in several other posts above. I believe girls are rarer because they are fewer playing, and because of the weirdness and stupid remarks from a few people that are to be expected to happen in command situations. I dunno if a girl would feel glad to go online to have fun and get a break, only to find the same sexist stuff thrown as them as irl.

There’s actually a study done in 2014 I believe that pegged female gamers at 56% of the gaming population. Fastest growth demographic compared to as little as five years ago. I’ll see if I can’t dig it up.

The gaming population of all games, including casual games. Which doesn’t say anything about the demographics of hardcore online games, specifically for a pvp game mode.

We have a few female commanders. Couple of them are really good…both in my guild.

Ogre.3124:

Basically the stupid lack the self awareness and intelligence to recognise their own stupidity, and therefore assume they’re intelligent.

Guess Chaba has Ogre pegged.

Qualified for Triple 9 Society(158 Stanford-Binet). Can beat you guys down in game, in real life (6’4 220) and while comparing mental acuity to a genius like me you are a group of troglodytes. A woman does not have near the amount of MLG points, reflexes, intelligence, nor reaction time to take me on at a video game. How many MLG events have you placed in? I have been top 10 in several Halo:CE events and have signed contracts as a semi-professional video game player. Playing against a girl wouldn’t even be worth my time

Lol this is pure gold.

Ogre.3124:

Basically the stupid lack the self awareness and intelligence to recognise their own stupidity, and therefore assume they’re intelligent.

Guess Chaba has Ogre pegged.

Qualified for Triple 9 Society(158 Stanford-Binet). Can beat you guys down in game, in real life (6’4 220) and while comparing mental acuity to a genius like me you are a group of troglodytes. A woman does not have near the amount of MLG points, reflexes, intelligence, nor reaction time to take me on at a video game. How many MLG events have you placed in? I have been top 10 in several Halo:CE events and have signed contracts as a semi-professional video game player. Playing against a girl wouldn’t even be worth my time

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I was going to write up an actual, thoughtful explanation to the guys who were actually curious as to what the environment is like from the perspective of a female commander.

Then I read some of the stuff written above, and there’s no need for me to do so. It speaks for itself.

Not sure if Ogre is trolling or kittened.

Steelo.4597:

Not sure if Ogre is trolling or kittened.

I think he is meming you

I’m female and I’m both a guild leader and a commander. I don’t tag up and lead server groups since joining Mag a few weeks ago, but much like it is for most people going from T7 to T2 and T3…it’s a confidence thing. A server group on T7 was a group of 20ish people that I interacted with every day. There was an easy confidence there and we didn’t see the magnitude of fights that we do with Mag and the enemy servers.

There’s no doubt in my mind that if we were to fully merge with Mag and I could build up my knowledge and confidence with these size of groups, I’d be right in there though. I know Mag has female commanders that I have followed and they do well.

I think when it comes down to it…male or female…it’s a confidence thing. If someone wants to command, get a group together that will follow you. For me it’s my guildies. They respect my leadership as a guild leader and support me when I command. If they didn’t, why would anyone else take to following me? Winning builds confidence too, but ultimately, having people that will follow you even when you fail is more important in the learning process.

I know some have made statements about women being more “emotional”, but I see male commanders rage quit after losing a fight and scream at people to “build” or “stay on tag”. I’m pretty sure rage and anger are emotions :P The female commanders I follow (especially on Mag) have been very level headed and stick with it.

If you haven’t been lucky enough to follow a female commander and see how she does things (that are likely different than your own style a lot of the time), you’re missing out Go find your local area female commander(s) and take notes! We bring things to the battlefield that many could stand to pick up on

Ogre.3124:

Basically the stupid lack the self awareness and intelligence to recognise their own stupidity, and therefore assume they’re intelligent.

Guess Chaba has Ogre pegged.

Qualified for Triple 9 Society(158 Stanford-Binet). Can beat you guys down in game, in real life (6’4 220) and while comparing mental acuity to a genius like me you are a group of troglodytes. A woman does not have near the amount of MLG points, reflexes, intelligence, nor reaction time to take me on at a video game. How many MLG events have you placed in? I have been top 10 in several Halo:CE events and have signed contracts as a semi-professional video game player. Playing against a girl wouldn’t even be worth my time

I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target.

ventusthunder.5067:

Ogre.3124:

Basically the stupid lack the self awareness and intelligence to recognise their own stupidity, and therefore assume they’re intelligent.

Guess Chaba has Ogre pegged.

Qualified for Triple 9 Society(158 Stanford-Binet). Can beat you guys down in game, in real life (6’4 220) and while comparing mental acuity to a genius like me you are a group of troglodytes. A woman does not have near the amount of MLG points, reflexes, intelligence, nor reaction time to take me on at a video game. How many MLG events have you placed in? I have been top 10 in several Halo:CE events and have signed contracts as a semi-professional video game player. Playing against a girl wouldn’t even be worth my time

I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target.

I have a masters in psychology, a job that doesn’t use that degree, student loans that won’t go away anytime soon, and I bet I can’t beat most people in a duel in GW2. I’m sure all of that matters to no one though

Funny how a thread about female commanders turned into a male contest of strengths there lol

If women want to command, let them. If they’re good, people will follow. If they’re trash, people wont.

This is 2016, I think you’ll find the majority of WvWers are not “hurf durf gurls r bad at gaymz xD” tier 13 year olds, like people are assuming in this thread. It has little to nothing to do with how the WvW community is and everything to do with women not stepping up, assuming what OP says is true.

People are forgetting that plenty of male commanders also get talked over, disrespected and disregarded for various factors.

Step up, tag up and get on TS. Simple as that.

Sus.3610:

ventusthunder.5067:

Ogre.3124:

Basically the stupid lack the self awareness and intelligence to recognise their own stupidity, and therefore assume they’re intelligent.

Guess Chaba has Ogre pegged.

Qualified for Triple 9 Society(158 Stanford-Binet). Can beat you guys down in game, in real life (6’4 220) and while comparing mental acuity to a genius like me you are a group of troglodytes. A woman does not have near the amount of MLG points, reflexes, intelligence, nor reaction time to take me on at a video game. How many MLG events have you placed in? I have been top 10 in several Halo:CE events and have signed contracts as a semi-professional video game player. Playing against a girl wouldn’t even be worth my time

I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target.

I have a masters in psychology, a job that doesn’t use that degree, student loans that won’t go away anytime soon, and I bet I can’t beat most people in a duel in GW2. I’m sure all of that matters to no one though

Funny how a thread about female commanders turned into a male contest of strengths there lol

I regret to inform you that this is not the case. In fact, I only have 12 confirmed kills in EotM. It seems you are not familiar with the Navy Seal copypasta, but that’s on me for trying to lighten up this complete and utter disaster of a thread.

Sarika.3756:

I was going to write up an actual, thoughtful explanation to the guys who were actually curious as to what the environment is like from the perspective of a female commander.

Then I read some of the stuff written above, and there’s no need for me to do so. It speaks for itself.

I had hoped some of the female commanders would do that. It’s sad that people would rather make mean jokes than listening.

[Thank you for the discussion, but as the thread has degraded into attacks on peoples’ character, which is not acceptable, this thread is now closed.]