Guild Wars 2

If I remember correctly, some desert maps replaced old gw2 wvw maps. Sup with this?

It turns out the DBL was a piece of kitten leavings and between the repeated calls for Anet to do something about them (fix or remove) they were removed in favor of the Alpine BLs (yay!) at least for now.

There was a recent poll – you may have seen an in-game mail about it – and we’ll probably end up with the DBL and ABL cycling every quarter.

thanks

I really liked the Desert Borderland theme Popullation was the only issue

TokyoGhost.6492:

thanks

I really liked the Desert Borderland theme Popullation was the only issue

DBL caused the population issue so yea not really great.

Q:
If I remember correctly, some desert maps replaced old gw2 wvw maps. Sup with this?

Hello there! yes they were, the map had some flaws at release that they fixed. Being kitten like the wvw community is and unable to adapt to changes they started crying on forums about how bad the desert border was. Anet obviously listened to this vocal crying minority and they brought alpine back (oh god why, alpine killed wvw prehot and surely will again) , last week there was a poll to mix alpine and desert and the option: yes, have 2 alpine and 1 dbl won by 70%, but being Anet they againt went for the vocal crying minority of 30%. No, desert werent empty, in fact it was more alive than wvw is now, wvw is a bleeding gamemode and surely will die with this stale alpine borderland weve had for 4 years

TLDR: typical crying wvw community, anet listens to minority, rip wvw.

TalleFjanten.7159:

…wvw is a bleeding gamemode and surely will die with this stale alpine borderland weve had for 4 years

LOL, because the reason WvW bleeds players (and has been since a few months into the game) is stale maps… and not that as an RVR gamemode the whole PPT and map design is terrible, that since HoT the powercreep has resulted in the one redeeming part of the game the combat hitting an all time low, etc.

P.S – Your “vocal minority” that disliked the DB were also the majority that voted for 2 AB + 1 DB to avoid having 3 months of DB, your “data” seems confused, just like everyone else that uses the idiotic term “vocal minority”.

TalleFjanten.7159:

No, desert werent empty, in fact it was more alive than wvw is now,

If he plays on EU, then he is right, the game is at low point, though that has nothing to do with the maps.

zinkz.7045:

TalleFjanten.7159:

No, desert werent empty, in fact it was more alive than wvw is now,

If he plays on EU, then he is right, the game is at low point, though that has nothing to do with the maps.

What do you mean, arent all players murican and what is EU~ murica

Maybe not entirely, the matchups are stale but alpine surely is not helping.

Yes, t1 EU.

You should have a look on this post:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-31-May-Mixed-Borderlands-CLOSED/page/8#post6187581

We all should keep in mind that as some people didn’t apreciate the complexity of DBL mechanism some other people bored on old maps and mechanical dating back to the beginning of the game.

Sure having DBL together with old maps instead of a rotation would be a good compromise and a potential window to the creation of a 4th map:
If you see some previous posts of the dev team you’ll see that a 4th map could be created in case of having all the maps together instead of a rotation.
Furthermore, it seems obvious that a removal of DBL may make harder to take the risk of creating a new map later…In that case I hope people really love ABL as they risk to play with it a very long time.

We will see soon…

Luvpie.8350:

TokyoGhost.6492:

thanks

I really liked the Desert Borderland theme Popullation was the only issue

DBL caused the population issue so yea not really great.

The expansion caused the population issue not the maps.

No, it was certainly the map itself that created a lot of unhappiness. That’s why the dev’s removed it, it was lowering participation. Even if there were complaints on the forums, if Anet saw participation increasing they would have kept them. It’s only because participation was dropping like a rock did they bring back Alpine.

btw.. please stop spamming from multiple accounts. It doesn’t make your arguments “more right”. For those of you doing that…

Vermillion.4061:

Luvpie.8350:

TokyoGhost.6492:

thanks

I really liked the Desert Borderland theme Popullation was the only issue

DBL caused the population issue so yea not really great.

The expansion caused the population issue not the maps.

Agreed, this expansion was over hyped AF.

DeWolfe.2174:

No, it was certainly the map itself that created a lot of unhappiness. That’s why the dev’s removed it, it was lowering participation. Even if there were complaints on the forums, if Anet saw participation increasing they would have kept them. It’s only because participation was dropping like a rock did they bring back Alpine.

btw.. please stop spamming from multiple accounts. It doesn’t make your arguments “more right”. For those of you doing that…

Are you sure it was the maps? Because since the reintroduction of the Alpine maps activity has dropped about 20% and there is still a downward trend. Maybe more people “came back to the game” but if they did, they are doing less … either that or other players have left the game.

Activity is barely 10% above where it was before rewards and linking were introduced and it is still falling. Even with linking and the alpine maps, kills are only up 5% from before their introduction (and this is also on a downward trend). If anything Alpine maps have killed the resurgence of WvW. The linking boosted the kills to 1,263,727 globally by crowding the DBL maps, but the alpine maps introduction has destroyed that boost losing nearly 300K/week kills globally since they were introduced.

I think your logic is broken.

The hype train is about to crash into a wall of reality.

TorquedSoul.8097:

Are you sure it was the maps? Because since the reintroduction of the Alpine maps activity has dropped about 20% and there is still a downward trend. Maybe more people “came back to the game” but if they did, they are doing less … either that or other players have left the game.

Interesting, have you done one of your activity posts recently? Would be interesting to see an analysis from before and after.

TorquedSoul.8097:

The linking boosted the kills to 1,263,727 globally by crowding the DBL maps, but the alpine maps introduction has destroyed that boost losing nearly 300K/week kills globally since they were introduced.

I’m not certain that “kills” is the correct metric for measuring the success (or failure) of the ABL’s.

I’ve spent an hour defending Bay from raiders, making taps, trebbing walls from Vale camp, etc., who were acting as nothing more than a diversion for a move on Hills.

This type of “activity” (and others like it) IS a valid measure of the success of the ABL maps, imho. Even though there were not a lot of kill being made, by either team, there was long term engagement and strategy being employed by both sides. The DBL’s were pretty much just Guild objectives and hit-N-quit, in-N-out game play (at least on my tier). Multiple, hour long engagements were non-existent.

Soon.5240:

TorquedSoul.8097:

The linking boosted the kills to 1,263,727 globally by crowding the DBL maps, but the alpine maps introduction has destroyed that boost losing nearly 300K/week kills globally since they were introduced.

I’m not certain that “kills” is the correct metric for measuring the success (or failure) of the ABL’s.

I’ve spent an hour defending Bay from raiders, making taps, trebbing walls from Vale camp, etc., who were acting as nothing more than a diversion for a move on Hills.

This type of “activity” (and others like it) IS a valid measure of the success of the ABL maps, imho. Even though there were not a lot of kill being made, by either team, there was long term engagement and strategy being employed by both sides. The DBL’s were pretty much just Guild objectives and hit-N-quit, in-N-out game play (at least on my tier). Multiple, hour long engagements were non-existent.

WvW is kills and captures. All things being equal … more man hours will equal more kills and captures regardless of the tactics being used.

Occasionally confusing or distracting your opponent will not significantly reduce the impact of population.

TorquedSoul.8097:

WvW is kills and captures. All things being equal … more man hours will equal more kills and captures regardless of the tactics being used.

Occasionally confusing or distracting your opponent will not significantly reduce the impact of population.

The DBL’s consisted largely of guilds hitting things that had been auto-upgraded, and then leaving WvW. There was little in the way of protracted engagement with the enemy (if you could even find any). It was basically PvE.

Soon.5240:

TorquedSoul.8097:

WvW is kills and captures. All things being equal … more man hours will equal more kills and captures regardless of the tactics being used.

Occasionally confusing or distracting your opponent will not significantly reduce the impact of population.

The DBL’s consisted largely of guilds hitting things that had been auto-upgraded, and then leaving WvW. There was little in the way of protracted engagement with the enemy (if you could even find any).

The protracted engagement is somehow leading to fewer kills than before the reintroduction of the alpine maps.

Do you guys do war dances rather than fight now?

TorquedSoul.8097:

Soon.5240:

TorquedSoul.8097:

WvW is kills and captures. All things being equal … more man hours will equal more kills and captures regardless of the tactics being used.

Occasionally confusing or distracting your opponent will not significantly reduce the impact of population.

The DBL’s consisted largely of guilds hitting things that had been auto-upgraded, and then leaving WvW. There was little in the way of protracted engagement with the enemy (if you could even find any).

The protracted engagement is somehow leading to fewer kills than before the reintroduction of the alpine maps.

Do you guys do war dances rather than fight now?

So you don’t actually play WvW? There is much more defending going on in the ABL’s. Defending does not necessarily equate with kills.

The enemy might hit the water gate at Garri, be repelled after 30 minutes, and then the walls are repaired by running supply in from the main WP. This is game play that won’t show up on a kill based metric.

Vermillion.4061:

The expansion caused the population issue not the maps.

Not true. I don’t have the expansion and I avoided the desert maps at all costs. Lion’s arch was more fun than desert maps.

TorquedSoul.8097:

All things being equal …

But they are not, which nullifies any arguments you could have made. The fact that participation is still above the start of the “Beta” say’s a lot about how much better Alpine is. Also, of course the shiny of the Beta has already worn off. It was gone after the second week and participation has dropped since. OW has and will continue to draw players out of GW2 too.

Soon.5240:

TorquedSoul.8097:

Soon.5240:

TorquedSoul.8097:

WvW is kills and captures. All things being equal … more man hours will equal more kills and captures regardless of the tactics being used.

Occasionally confusing or distracting your opponent will not significantly reduce the impact of population.

The DBL’s consisted largely of guilds hitting things that had been auto-upgraded, and then leaving WvW. There was little in the way of protracted engagement with the enemy (if you could even find any).

The protracted engagement is somehow leading to fewer kills than before the reintroduction of the alpine maps.

Do you guys do war dances rather than fight now?

So you don’t actually play WvW? There is much more defending going on in the ABL’s. Defending does not necessarily equate with kills.

The enemy might hit the water gate at Garri, be repelled after 30 minutes, and then the walls are repaired by running supply in from the main WP. This is game play that won’t show up on a kill based metric.

You are correct. Siege fighting doesn’t show up in the kill metric. Successful defences happened on the dbl also. This is not unique to abl. But when it happened in dbl it was called low skill cowardly gameplay, aka Siege humping.

Is there more siege humping in the abl? Are players able to hide behind walls better?

DeWolfe.2174:

TorquedSoul.8097:

All things being equal …

But they are not, which nullifies any arguments you could have made. The fact that participation is still above the start of the “Beta” say’s a lot about how much better Alpine is. Also, of course the shiny of the Beta has already worn off. It was gone after the second week and participation has dropped since. OW has and will continue to draw players out of GW2 too.

You are rationalizing, but that is your right. Whatever you need to tell yourself.

Luvpie.8350:

TokyoGhost.6492:

thanks

I really liked the Desert Borderland theme Popullation was the only issue

DBL caused the population issue so yea not really great.

population QQ because they took longer to karma train, still also was harder for the low population that ANY borderland have do defend it.

Alpine is easy to cross for both, now karma swarmers complain about defending teams reaching and defending their keep/tower/ppt with siege even if it is 1 defender.

TorquedSoul.8097:

You are correct. Siege fighting doesn’t show up in the kill metric. Successful defences happened on the dbl also. This is not unique to abl. But when it happened in dbl it was called low skill cowardly gameplay, aka Siege humping.

Is there more siege humping in the abl? Are players able to hide behind walls better?

I don’t know if you are woefully ignorant of WvW or merely trolling — but, except for the recent experiment in server mergers, no one has paid attention to scoring in WvW in years. Your statement above that WvW is “Kills and Captures” is laughable.

For years, I could tell you, within minutes of the reset, not only which server would place first, second and third for the week, but also what the spread in points would be at the end of the week.

The WvW community (of which you don’t appear to be per your historical posts) want good, protracted strategic fights over keeps and towers. As I’ve commented in game and elsewhere before, I’d rather lose the week by 5k points then win by 50k. Most points in WvW are garnered in other than North American Prime Time play. Yes, yes, yes. There are other time zones, but their contribution in points is disproportionate to the level of activity taking place. This has always been the real problem with WvW. If you played it, you’d know.

A spread in points does not mean that one server is that much “better” than another. It means that, on average, there are more people participation in WvW over the course of a week. That’s all.

Soon.5240:

TorquedSoul.8097:

You are correct. Siege fighting doesn’t show up in the kill metric. Successful defences happened on the dbl also. This is not unique to abl. But when it happened in dbl it was called low skill cowardly gameplay, aka Siege humping.

Is there more siege humping in the abl? Are players able to hide behind walls better?

I don’t know if you are woefully ignorant of WvW or merely trolling — but, except for the recent experiment in server mergers, no one has paid attention to scoring in WvW in years. Your statement above that WvW is “Kills and Captures” is laughable.

For years, I could tell you, within minutes of the reset, not only which server would place first, second and third for the week, but also what the spread in points would be at the end of the week.

The WvW community (of which you don’t appear to be per your historical posts) want good, protracted strategic fights over keeps and towers. As I’ve commented in game and elsewhere before, I’d rather lose the week by 5k points then win by 50k. Most points in WvW are garnered in other than North American Prime Time play. Yes, yes, yes. There are other time zones, but their contribution in points is disproportionate to the level of activity taking place. This has always been the real problem with WvW. If you played it, you’d know.

A spread in points does not mean that one server is that much “better” than another. It means that, on average, there are more people participation in WvW over the course of a week. That’s all.

I’m not trolling, I just disagree with you. I understand that some here assume that all that disagree with them are toxic trolls, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

I agree that defensive play is a part of WvW, I’ve seen it and been a part of it even on DBL. However in my experience defensive play often involves fighting (and killing). Unless your tactic is to bore the opponent into leaving which is valid and does happen but is not the common resolution. If it was, players would stop attacking any defended objective.

If you think that players returned because of alpine to simply spend their time hanging out in objectives building siege and repairing walls, I cant argue that. There is no way for me to know.

But time will tell who is right about this. You may enjoy the current maps and the play style they bring with them, but others may not and may leave. Players have different preferences. It seems that the current push is to appeal to one play style exclusively, and that will cost Anet population. I seriously doubt that those who left before left strictly because of HoT and I expect their return to be short lived.

IMO, Anet is making changes to get a short term activity spike which will result in lower overall activity in the long run. Or at best, no significant change as those that don’t like the blobbing may come back after the blobbing stops.

They are giving the “community” what they want. Once the “community” gets what they want they will get bored and move on. For some people the game is getting what they want, and once they have it the appeal is gone and they will just want something else.

TorquedSoul.8097:

It seems that the current push is to appeal to one play style exclusively, and that will cost Anet population.

But this is where you are wrong, and if you had played (or do play) the ABL’s, you would know.

The ABL’s invite MANY different types of WvW participation among many different types of players. You can solo camps, escort Yaks, slap Yaks, tap Garri to keep the WP contested, sit on a Treb in an enemy’s Hills and harass their Water Keep, scout, havoc, refresh/build siege, serve as a diversion to draw enemy from other maps, etc., etc., etc. You can even participate in a good old fashioned Zerg stomps.

None of this was really relevant to the DBL’s. The DBL’s were largely PvE – meaning a guild would go into an enemy DBL, flip some uncontested stuff and leave. The DBL’s promoted one type of game play at the expense of others – much like EoTM.

Soon.5240:

TorquedSoul.8097:

It seems that the current push is to appeal to one play style exclusively, and that will cost Anet population.

But this is where you are wrong, and if you had played (or do play) the ABL’s, you would know.

The ABL’s invite MANY different types of WvW participation among many different types of players. You can solo camps, escort Yaks, slap Yaks, tap Garri to keep the WP contested, sit on a Treb in an enemy’s Hills and harass their Water Keep, scout, havoc, refresh/build siege, serve as a diversion to draw enemy from other maps, etc., etc., etc. You can even participate in a good old fashioned Zerg stomps.

None of this was really relevant to the DBL’s. The DBL’s were largely PvE – meaning a guild would go into an enemy DBL, flip some uncontested stuff and leave. The DBL’s promoted one type of game play at the expense of others – much like EoTM.

OK. I’m wrong.

DeWolfe.2174:

TorquedSoul.8097:

All things being equal …

But they are not, which nullifies any arguments you could have made. The fact that participation is still above the start of the “Beta” say’s a lot about how much better Alpine is. Also, of course the shiny of the Beta has already worn off. It was gone after the second week and participation has dropped since. OW has and will continue to draw players out of GW2 too.

That may be right. Yet, in my EU server amongst others (I’ve seen another topic about this), the ABL-is-back hype is now really down, and there isn’t that much queue in any border or EBG even in prime time something like 5-12ppl between 9 and 9:30PM.

I’m not sure DBL would change that in any way, nor I am sure that score tweaks could do anything about it, but I take it for certain that if things to change for anything it will only get downer and downer.