Guild Wars 2

Ahh, the mystery abounds…Here are last week’s rankings:

6 Maguuma 1759.4861 141.1118 0.4752 2
7 Crystal Desert 1674.6707 140.2291 0.4806 3
8 Yak’s Bend 1666.3917 140.5307 0.4796 4
9 Dragonbrand 1666.2216 139.7802 0.4801 3
10 Stormbluff Isle 1658.6417 142.2522 0.4864 3
11 Devona’s Rest 1566.6484 139.7816 0.4676 4

This week, 7, 9, and 10 are matched up and it’s a close fight, although CD will likely pull off the win.

8 and 11 are matched up (along with IOJ) and DR is going to win.

Maguuma has a higher rating but is tanking like a pro and will certainly drop if they repeat their performance next week. Last I heard, most of Maguuma is moving to YB for the tourny on the 11th hour.

At this point it looks like CD will be the new biotch in T2, but it’s impossible to tell until next week is over. If you think the tanking is bad this week, wait until next week when #7-#9 all completely STOP playing out of fear of going up to T2.

Another thing to consider: Anet hasn’t specifically said that the leagues are remaining the same, unless someone has more info than is posted here:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-world-vs-world-fall-tournament-2014/

Thoughts?

Frost.6748:

Another thing to consider: Anet hasn’t specifically said that the leagues are remaining the same, unless someone has more info than is posted here:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-world-vs-world-fall-tournament-2014/

There is a red post in a recent thread that says that the league will be the same 6/9/9 with swiss style. So it is the same as Season 2, except that it will be shorter, and the meta achievment is now split in weekly activities instead.

It’ll be the unfortunate T3 server that steals all of Mag’s ratings.

if the match up system still rigidly follow the glicko rating points, Mag would still be in gold. this is because the rate of their rating point dropping is even slower every time SoS gaining theirs. the gap between SoS and Mgs is almost 300 points now.

azizul.8469:

if the match up system still rigidly follow the glicko rating points, Mag would still be in gold. this is because the rate of their rating point dropping is even slower every time SoS gaining theirs. the gap between SoS and Mgs is almost 300 points now.

Yeah, but if the RNGod decide that Mag will get a T3 matchup next week, one of the two servers on that matchup will be screwed. Or even the one that get on the T2 if it’s able to “compete” with SoS/FA.

There is a red post in a recent thread that says that the league will be the same 6/9/9 with swiss style. So it is the same as Season 2, except that it will be shorter, and the meta achievment is now split in weekly activities instead.[/quote]

Thanks for that info! Looks like the tanking next week will be epic. I’m almost afraid to take camps for my dailies in fear of it putting us on top :P

Jeknar.6184:

Frost.6748:

Another thing to consider: Anet hasn’t specifically said that the leagues are remaining the same, unless someone has more info than is posted here:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-world-vs-world-fall-tournament-2014/

There is a red post in a recent thread that says that the league will be the same 6/9/9 with swiss style. So it is the same as Season 2, except that it will be shorter, and the meta achievment is now split in weekly activities instead.

Thanks for that info! Looks like the tanking next week will be epic. I’m almost afraid to take camps for my dailies in fear of it putting us on top :P

Most of the major wvw guilds in DB were tanking last week in order to avoid going to gold league. They even had a meting on the DB teamspeak to organize the tanking. People who opposed got kicked from the TS. So I think SBI will go to gold league. If maguma drop next week I think DB will play dead 1 more week to avoid going up.

I would like to see DB on gold league.

Jeknar.6184:

azizul.8469:

if the match up system still rigidly follow the glicko rating points, Mag would still be in gold. this is because the rate of their rating point dropping is even slower every time SoS gaining theirs. the gap between SoS and Mgs is almost 300 points now.

Yeah, but if the RNGod decide that Mag will get a T3 matchup next week, one of the two servers on that matchup will be screwed. Or even the one that get on the T2 if it’s able to “compete” with SoS/FA.

yup, agreed, RNGod intervention is Mags only hope to get out of T2…

Maguuma has less than 5 people in WvW for 22 hours of the day right now. I don’t think anybody can tank against that tbh. Pray to RNGesus.

What I don’t understand is why the T3 servers are tanking. Are the dumb and meaningless rewards really worth this farcical tankfest?

I’d understand tanking for the previous two seasons. 7-9 weeks of getting farmed is usually bad for servers.

However, this tournament is only 4 weeks long. We’ve had stale matchups for far longer than 4 weeks. And this is 4 weeks where the current T3 servers would get a shot at fighting servers they haven’t seen in a loooong time (if ever), without the pressure of having to worry about the PPT game. If I were a diehard WvW’er on a T3 server, I’d absolutely make the push for Gold, considering how short this tournament is.

mango.9267:

What I don’t understand is why the T3 servers are tanking. Are the dumb and meaningless rewards really worth this farcical tankfest?

I’d understand tanking for the previous two seasons. 7-9 weeks of getting farmed is usually bad for servers.

However, this tournament is only 4 weeks long. We’ve had stale matchups for far longer than 4 weeks. And this is 4 weeks where the current T3 servers would get a shot at fighting servers they haven’t seen in a loooong time (if ever), without the pressure of having to worry about the PPT game. If I were a diehard WvW’er on a T3 server, I’d absolutely make the push for Gold, considering how short this tournament is.

CD isn’t tanking, twas a holiday weekend so we had a low turnout, and then proceeded to close a 15k gap in a day. Also, not to defend them since they admitted to tanking, but DB recently lost quite a few guilds as well. But yeah, Mag even swapping out of gold will all depend on the RNG that hits this reset.

Frost.6748:

Maguuma has a higher rating but is tanking like a pro and will certainly drop if they repeat their performance next week. Last I heard, most of Maguuma is moving to YB for the tourny on the 11th hour.

At this point it looks like CD will be the new biotch in T2, but it’s impossible to tell until next week is over. If you think the tanking is bad this week, wait until next week when #7-#9 all completely STOP playing out of fear of going up to T2.

Far as I know from an within-T2-yet-outside-Mag perspective, most of Mag left game to AA. The rest either moved to TC or stayed on Mag. Heard something about some Ark on YB, but no clue what’s going on there.

Thing is, you’ll see quite a few more Mag than we’ve been seeing currently in T2. It seems like they’ve accepted their drop from T2, but the promise of new matchups in T3 will bring a good number out of their AA holes and back into WvW, at least for reset and weekend play. This past reset, they still had 60+ Mag playing WvW at least, with 30-40 of those on Nacho’s tag in MagBL.

Don’t discount them entirely because of their incredi-bad tick. Depending on who gets bumped up to T2, Mag will probably stick around 3.5-4.5. Probably T4 for a bit then back up to T3.

My bet’s on CD moving up. A good number seem to look forward to the challenge (which I applaud). It won’t be that bad from FA’s side, we don’t tend to ktrain and WP enemy BL keeps when it’s the underdog. Can’t say the same for SoS though. Should be fun fights.

All in all, whoever moves up, we’re looking forward to having a living third server in the match-up. Sole exception is YB, since many are hostile to their play style. Honestly, I completely understand their tanking. The SoS late PST/OCX/SEA ktrain special means EU/NA logging in to see paper everything every day. Probably YB’s horror story.

mango.9267:

What I don’t understand is why the T3 servers are tanking. Are the dumb and meaningless rewards really worth this farcical tankfest?

It’s to avoid having one server that just kitten’s everyone in the kittenhole for the entire tournament. Season 1 FA rolled over every match. Season 2 the free transfers turned HOD into a 24/7 steamroller. The only real contest in T3 has been for second place.

It would be interesting to see how a T3 server fares in Gold, but the majority of people I’ve talked to would rather have a mostly even match for a change.

xDudisx.5914:

Most of the major wvw guilds in DB were tanking last week in order to avoid going to gold league. They even had a meting on the DB teamspeak to organize the tanking. People who opposed got kicked from the TS. So I think SBI will go to gold league. If maguma drop next week I think DB will play dead 1 more week to avoid going up.

I would like to see DB on gold league.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Frost.6748:

If you think the tanking is bad this week, wait until next week when #7-#9 all completely STOP playing out of fear of going up to T2.

Would be hilarious if no one took Stonemist at reset Friday! It just stayed gray the whole time.

mango.9267:

What I don’t understand is why the T3 servers are tanking. Are the dumb and meaningless rewards really worth this farcical tankfest?

I’d understand tanking for the previous two seasons. 7-9 weeks of getting farmed is usually bad for servers.

However, this tournament is only 4 weeks long. We’ve had stale matchups for far longer than 4 weeks. And this is 4 weeks where the current T3 servers would get a shot at fighting servers they haven’t seen in a loooong time (if ever), without the pressure of having to worry about the PPT game. If I were a diehard WvW’er on a T3 server, I’d absolutely make the push for Gold, considering how short this tournament is.

Feel free to try and take IoJ up there. Quite frankly I think you’d have to be insane to want to be the 6th server in Gold even for 4 weeks. I don’t think you really understand how big the gap is. You may as well go PVE for a month.

Amurond.4590:

mango.9267:

What I don’t understand is why the T3 servers are tanking. Are the dumb and meaningless rewards really worth this farcical tankfest?

I’d understand tanking for the previous two seasons. 7-9 weeks of getting farmed is usually bad for servers.

However, this tournament is only 4 weeks long. We’ve had stale matchups for far longer than 4 weeks. And this is 4 weeks where the current T3 servers would get a shot at fighting servers they haven’t seen in a loooong time (if ever), without the pressure of having to worry about the PPT game. If I were a diehard WvW’er on a T3 server, I’d absolutely make the push for Gold, considering how short this tournament is.

Feel free to try and take IoJ up there. Quite frankly I think you’d have to be insane to want to be the 6th server in Gold even for 4 weeks. I don’t think you really understand how big the gap is. You may as well go PVE for a month.

The other fear is that you will be stuck for more than 4 weeks….. t3 may be facing t5 in the tourney at times, so winning those matches still may not make up the difference… It has taken mags awhile to drop and cd is trying to get there…..

Put your money on CD. The CD community will not take a dive on purpose and we look forward to the opportunity to compete at a higher level. We will learn and adapt.

Sanctum.7938:

Put your money on CD. The CD community will not take a dive on purpose and we look forward to the opportunity to compete at a higher level. We will learn and adapt.

If you really want to go to Gold you all should’ve played for PPT earlier in the match to give yourself a better shot. Now its going to be all up to RNG with CD, SBI and DB having almost the same Glicko rating.

It was a holiday weekend in the states where most of us are from. We may focus on WvW when we are in game but we focus on Life first.

mango.9267:

What I don’t understand is why the T3 servers are tanking. Are the dumb and meaningless rewards really worth this farcical tankfest?

I’d understand tanking for the previous two seasons. 7-9 weeks of getting farmed is usually bad for servers.

However, this tournament is only 4 weeks long. We’ve had stale matchups for far longer than 4 weeks. And this is 4 weeks where the current T3 servers would get a shot at fighting servers they haven’t seen in a loooong time (if ever), without the pressure of having to worry about the PPT game. If I were a diehard WvW’er on a T3 server, I’d absolutely make the push for Gold, considering how short this tournament is.

It is discouraging to the community no matter how short it is. Remember even casual pvers who never wvw will go there just for the skin and AP. What would you feel if you get crushed everytime you go to wvw? Now we have megaserver, the only thing that matter for world choice is wvw. Some people may try to go to a “winning” server.

DB tried going to gold once, three largest wvw guilds left after the tournament. I wouldn’t say that’s 100% the cause but it definitely contribute to the transfer.

Mag cannot tank even if it wants to. 20 out of 24 hours it doesn’t matter as SoS dominates. Look at FA getting rolled over which always had better coverage than Mag. Even if Mag mustered all of its forces during NA prime it isn’t enough to move the PPT significantly.

The RNG will be the deciding factor. It is likely that Mag needs an RNG move to T3 this upcoming week to avoid being locked in Gold. If the same T2 match goes next week, Mag will likely remain in T2 for the tournament.

Do the matches lock prior to tournament? I don’t remember seeing mention of that. If not, the seeding/ranking shifts right up to the start of S3, so Mag has another week to lose glicko still. Seeing that Mag will lose ~35 rating this week, they’ll probably lose around ~25-30 next week, settling them at 1690-95. Very strong chance to switch out, as there’s 3 servers within a 30 point range.

In the past the matchups for the first week of the tourney did not use RNG. Therefore, this Friday’s reset is the last opportunity for an RNG roll to drop Mag into T3.

Yes, but Mag will continue to lose points. T3 will have to purposefully lockstep tie the thing to avoid popping up.
Even then, one of them will pop up in a mere 4 weeks later.

If CD or SBI, or even DR (if Mag drops and DR pops; they are a dark horse possibility) come up for the season, no one is going to go out of their way to make their lives hell. They might have a really bad week the one week they get two T1 servers; but that’s because they’ll be fighting over their land for the PPT.

CD is treated as “Our brother by another mother” by SoS; we have a respectful old rivalry with SBI, and we don’t know DR well enough to have a negative opinion. Basch has already spoken for FA in regards to not piling on the newcomer and I think no one on SoS is eager to kill another server.

It’s not going to be roses and dancing girls; but it’s better than having your recruiting tagline for the next six months being “do you have what it takes to be a coward!?”

Get stomped for a month or have a tagline from a random know-it-all poster?

Yeah, we know the way to go.

tanking has never gone well for any server that has done it. Who knows, you might break the trend but I’ve yet to see it happen.

No one is “fearing” T2, people from that tier who assume so are giving too much credit towards themselves.

No one in T3/4 wants to leave a balanced group of servers with good matches for one which is none of that.

T2 players seemingly like to ignore the fact that the considerable difference in power between T2 (SoS mostly) and T3 will never create a balanced match with a T3 server in T2, and T2 players have repeatedly admitted to looking forward to spawn-camp T3 servers. Which eventually will lead to dull matches for all of T2 and another shift in power (which, imo, is inevitable).

Unless T2 player enjoy PvD and spawn-camping instead of competitive matches (which i suspect may be the case) T2 will dry out eventually. So i would think about if T2 servers can keep their current populations in the future, especially SoS, with imbalanced matches.

Leave the worries about T3 populations to the T3 servers. No one wants to be in Gold for the upcoming season 3 as Silver looks to be much more fun. Let T3 servers worry about the time after season 3, but actually there aren’t many people worrying.

And the former YB people who transferred could be so nice as to stop trying to discredit YB just because of their personal opinion. It won’t make YB change its style just because some people do not like it.

I’m down to check out what all this gold league fuss is about.
http://youtu.be/fhOrxkGlLDM

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

I’m down to check out what all this gold league fuss is about.
http://youtu.be/fhOrxkGlLDM

There is nothing you haven’t seen before with FA and HoD in the last Seasons. Just large numbers and the numbers of off hours will be higher than you are used to.

The T1 servers ability to get 50-70 on a single tag is quite impressive, but they disappoint in terms of individual skill 90% of the time or more.

T2 isn’t all that bad unless you are the kind of person who sweats about what’s happening when you aren’t online. If you are the type who focuses mainly on your play or your guild’s play and can get others on your server to do the same; then you’d be fine.

One more point, DB talks about all that they lost but they lost those people because they liked T2. They make it sound like they broke down or something. They liked what they saw and wanted it to continue. With the shape of things, whoever steps into the 3rd spot has an excellent chance of keeping it if they want it.

In a PvP enabled area, you control the actions of only one player.

I look forward to some good skirmishes regardless of who I face, we are all just gamers after all.

Amurond.4590:

Feel free to try and take IoJ up there. Quite frankly I think you’d have to be insane to want to be the 6th server in Gold even for 4 weeks. I don’t think you really understand how big the gap is. You may as well go PVE for a month.

I wish IoJ had a shot at it. And the gap isn’t really as big as you think it is. The T3 servers definitely have more people than Mag at this point. And almost all of you have a comparable population with FA (DR might even have more people in NA).

It’s only from SoS onwards that the gap really widens, and that’s mostly during offhours. Frankly, with SoS hemorrhaging OCX guilds, CD would probably hold its own just fine in T2.

Afya.5842:

It is discouraging to the community no matter how short it is. Remember even casual pvers who never wvw will go there just for the skin and AP. What would you feel if you get crushed everytime you go to wvw? Now we have megaserver, the only thing that matter for world choice is wvw. Some people may try to go to a “winning” server.

DB tried going to gold once, three largest wvw guilds left after the tournament. I wouldn’t say that’s 100% the cause but it definitely contribute to the transfer.

Thing is, many servers have lost for more than 4 weeks in a row before, many of them in the current T3. And most of them are doing fine now. The gap isn’t so big between T3 and the (hemorrhaging) T2 that it’d be absolute domination, contrary what Mag may have you think.

Yeah, the PvE AP hunters will probably be disappointed, but I was under the impression the hardcore WvW crowd didn’t cater to them anyway.

It’s not win or lose it’s how you play the game. The CD Council set’s attainable goals and the community stands tall to meet them. Our current goal is Top T3. If we happen to move to T2 we will set new goals after assessing the competition. If we determine that it’s all we can do to hold Garrison for 24 hours that will be our goal. Once we obtain that goal we will set another. That’s how we roll. We are not afraid to play against T1 and T2 servers. We see it as a challenge and growth opportunity.

if in the next match up Mags are still T2, SoS could possibly troll them by tanking their rating points, pushing up Mags rating, and Mags would have to fight in Gold league.

azizul.8469:

if in the next match up Mags are still T2, SoS could possibly troll them by tanking their rating points, pushing up Mags rating, and Mags would have to fight in Gold league.

Tempting but we are really tired of mags and theyr running.
They need to drop like a brick down to where they belong till that place cleans up a bit from all the stealth spam thieves and pu mesmers.

azizul.8469:

if in the next match up Mags are still T2, SoS could possibly troll them by tanking their rating points, pushing up Mags rating, and Mags would have to fight in Gold league.

Only a pittance is left of the people on Mag who made them unliked. No one in T2 is wishing anymore ill-will on Maguuma. Even those who focused them have moved on (along with much of Maguuma’s population).

If anything it’s been cathartic and while there’s still plenty of salt between FA and SoS; true hostility is reaching record lows.

If Mag doesn’t get RNG dropped next week, there is a good chance they are staying in gold for the tournament. They will be about 47 points ahead of CD by the end of this match. It’s not likely that SoS/FA can drop Mag’s rating again by so much since we’d have to win by even more than we are now. CD would also have to pull away from the other T3 servers to make up the difference. Would be very hard to do so if YB or DR roll up next week with their lower rating. It would still be hard against DB and SBI seeing as how CD is currently not gaining rating.

Tomorrow evening is going to be a lot of fun finding out if Mag drops or not.

mango.9267:

And almost all of you have a comparable population with FA (DR might even have more people in NA).

Yes they have more people than Mag. No, none of the T3 servers have comparable populations to FA. FA are being creamed by an extremely stacked oceanic SoS, however I’m willing to bet if they were to drop to T3 for a match against CD/DB they would lead PPT comfortably across most if not all timezones.

Snowreap just posted the matchup probabilities in the wishlist topic.

59.55% chance Mag stays in T2 next week. So 40.45% chance it gets dropped to T3 or T4.

Amurond.4590:

mango.9267:

And almost all of you have a comparable population with FA (DR might even have more people in NA).

Yes they have more people than Mag. No, none of the T3 servers have comparable populations to FA. FA are being creamed by an extremely stacked oceanic SoS, however I’m willing to bet if they were to drop to T3 for a match against CD/DB they would lead PPT comfortably across most if not all timezones.

FA still has hardly any OCX/SEA. They have more in NA than most T3 servers (save DR), but not that much more in EU. The T3 servers would still lose by a decent margin, but it wouldn’t be a roflstomp, and most of the T3 servers would probably be able to hold their own.

Granted, FA’s population might be artificially low from the stale matchup and Mag’s recent implosion. But judging by what I’ve seen this week and the previous couple of weeks, the gap between FA and the T3 isn’t as large as you make it out to be.

Arcadio.6875:

Snowreap just posted the matchup probabilities in the wishlist topic.

59.55% chance Mag stays in T2 next week. So 40.45% chance it gets dropped to T3 or T4.

Mag also has 6% chance of facing BG lol !

Johje Holan.4607:

Arcadio.6875:

Snowreap just posted the matchup probabilities in the wishlist topic.

59.55% chance Mag stays in T2 next week. So 40.45% chance it gets dropped to T3 or T4.

Mag also has 6% chance of facing BG lol !

No…..they do not….

The calculation is: (devation * 0.45 + 10), capped at 100

That means in order to have ANY chance of rolling a server they MUST be within 200 elo points of each other (Assuming the max cap of 100 and one server rolls up and the other servers rolls down at the exact same time). So no…mag cannot face BG as the gap in elo is too large…

Well, it doesn’t matter how far BG and Mag are away from each other. Mag will still have the 6th highest rating by the end of the week which means they are expected to stay in T2. SoS is close enough to the T1 servers allowing it to roll up while one of the T1 servers rolls down (most likely BG since they have the lowest rating of the T1 servers). Mag facing BG is possible, just not probable.

Arcadio.6875:

Well, it doesn’t matter how far BG and Mag are away from each other. Mag will still have the 6th highest rating by the end of the week which means they are expected to stay in T2. SoS is close enough to the T1 servers allowing it to roll up while one of the T1 servers rolls down (most likely BG since they have the lowest rating of the T1 servers). Mag facing BG is possible, just not probable.

I see what you are saying now. Because SoS has a chance to switch with BG.

The chances of Mag facing BG are just 2% less than dropping to T3. Let’s all hope the RNG is kind to them.

Chris.3290:

The chances of Mag facing BG are just 2% less than dropping to T3. Let’s all hope the RNG is kind to them.

Doesn’t really matter. Whoever lands in this spot will get hammered. SoS is significantly more populated and have vastly better coverage. Mag can still queue a map (as it did this week) but that doesn’t matter much when SoS can load up a map 24×7. Even FA which is stronger than any T3 doesn’t hold on outside of NA Prime.

The idea that any T3 server wants to move up is either naive, stupid or a glutton for punishment. T2 populations need some rebalancing and that will take time. Until then avoid being 6th or really even 5th in Gold as you will be ice skating up a hill in a snowstorm.

Straegen.2938:

Chris.3290:

The chances of Mag facing BG are just 2% less than dropping to T3. Let’s all hope the RNG is kind to them.

Doesn’t really matter. Whoever lands in this spot will get hammered. SoS is significantly more populated and have vastly better coverage. Mag can still queue a map (as it did this week) but that doesn’t matter much when SoS can load up a map 24×7. Even FA which is stronger than any T3 doesn’t hold on outside of NA Prime.

The idea that any T3 server wants to move up is either naive, stupid or a glutton for punishment. T2 populations need some rebalancing and that will take time. Until then avoid being 6th or really even 5th in Gold as you will be ice skating up a hill in a snowstorm.

I love people who are self-appointed experts on our off-hours coverage. I’m pretty sure that SoS has not had a queue outside of NA prime since Season 2 when everyone would stack on one map to follow Eldsvada around in a massive blob, while every other map had outnumbered buff. Likewise, we didn’t have any even in our T1 glory days.

Chris.3290:

I love people who are self-appointed experts on our off-hours coverage. I’m pretty sure that SoS has not had a queue outside of NA prime since Season 2 when everyone would stack on one map to follow Eldsvada around in a massive blob, while every other map had outnumbered buff. Likewise, we didn’t have any even in our T1 glory days.

Drop down a tier or two and finding 20 people across all maps outside NA prime on a server is difficult (DB and CD are probably the only two). For better or worse SoS simply has better coverage than any server below it. They don’t need a queue to dominate with numbers and they have little problem popping orange swords at any time during the day.

I have been fighting the SoS off NA Prime groups for a few months but don’t take my word for it just look at the map history. Either SoS is ticking north of 400 points or FA/SoS are splitting the points as FA does have some NA mid-day presence. I suppose it could be raw skill that is winning the day but NOBODY with any sense believes that.

Arcadio.6875:

If Mag doesn’t get RNG dropped next week, there is a good chance they are staying in gold for the tournament. They will be about 47 points ahead of CD by the end of this match. It’s not likely that SoS/FA can drop Mag’s rating again by so much since we’d have to win by even more than we are now. CD would also have to pull away from the other T3 servers to make up the difference. Would be very hard to do so if YB or DR roll up next week with their lower rating. It would still be hard against DB and SBI seeing as how CD is currently not gaining rating.

Tomorrow evening is going to be a lot of fun finding out if Mag drops or not.

CD made gains today and is now 12 points up on DB and 21 Points up on SBI. Mag lost some more Glicko today so the margin of 42 is close to the drop (40) for Mag this week. I expect by end next week CD and Mag will be virtually tied for Glicko.