Guild Wars 2

WvW is meant to be played for 24 hrs, perfectly fine IF ur on NA server where the whole world SEA/Oceanics/even EU and whole for Americas plays, but this doesn’t work in EU atall.

EU is 1 region and the only timezones which are even close to active are Russian(gmt+3) Middle east(gmt 4) and spanish who don’t sleep at night :P,

i am on desolation and play on 4+ GMT and every time i login, there is absolutely nobody playing on Desolation, which is by far the most populated server in EU.

the usual “primetime” for EU only lasts for about 3-6 hours which is again riddled with quues on almost all servers and the rest 18 hours have almost no players nor coverage atall.

the only exception to this is Vizunah square, the only server with 24 hour coverage in EU, we can argue that they have canadians, french playing for 20 hours straight for everyday for the last 7 months or what ever the reasons , this has made them into a very succesful and effective but boring server using the same tactic , golem rush everything on everymap when other servers are offline and upgrade everything and just defend in the EU primetime which makes them pretty much unbeatable in EU.

This strategy though is very effective and works really well, it has de moroalised pretty much every other server in EU.

few servers, deso/SFR did have NA guilds for a brief period of time and quite easily beat Vizunah but the amount of time , but paid transfers pretty much closed these doors for every server now. and the whine from VS is just too much for anybody to handle.

go to any EU tier1/2 server threads and u will see nobody wants to play VS anymore, again its not even VS is fault, they merely adopted to a flawed points and ranking system by Anet

Apparently 3 people playing at offhours for 10 hours (30 man hours) is a lot more effective than 10 people playing for 3 hours( 30 man hours) according to the points systems.

The only solution i see is either fix the points system to reflect the population activity in WvW or make global servers.

my playtime has already decreased from 4+ hours to 1 hour now, cos of ques and when we finally get in, we have no server to fight against cos, 1 server doesn’t come out of their towers and the 3rd server has already given up in the first 2 days.

Have you noticed that the server that has the most points during the night this week is Desolation ?

This so called PvD or nightcapping is a real problem, AN better start listen to ppl complaining about it and start thinking on solution. No one likes to play the game where they don’t stand a chance and realize that they also can’t improve, there’s no hope that they will learn something, improve and in future maybe will rival the top server, no, because it’s not about skill or organisation, you can’t improve here, just you need to sleep, work, go to uni/school, w/e. I’ve said that in other topic and will say this again, there shouldn’t be 2 ladders to start with, if WvW supposed to be 24/7 game mode then there should be 1 global ladder, that’s all there’s to it. It makes sense, current system doesn’t make any sense. Unless they come up with some kind of intelligent scoring system, which i doubt they will, at least not in thins decade. xP

salluks.6017:

Apparently 3 people playing at offhours for 10 hours (30 man hours) is a lot more effective than 10 people playing for 3 hours( 30 man hours) according to the points systems.

Cuba, China, the Soviet Union and North Korea approve this message

War doesn’t stop for nap time.

Being unemployed/not being in school is a huge plus in WvW. It’s also very good if you don’t sleep.

:)

Like we all mentioned on forums…..merge the bloody servers….NA with EU you get 24/7 coverage……hope Arenanet will listen if it comes to merging servers.

/Peace

I don’t think Vizunah has a much better coverage than other servers. I think their secret is that they start a karma train through all WVW maps and all pugs and Pve people join it. We on Elona could easily mess with Vizunah but due the fact that we lose like 50% of the pugs if it gets difficult we are always outnumbered at night.
In my opinion Vizunah is full of zombies. They never sleep and aer superior. but it’s get boring. Don’t blame them for playing wvw like it’s supposed to be.

suprNovae.5410:

I don’t think Vizunah has a much better coverage than other servers. I think their secret is that they start a karma train through all WVW maps and all pugs and Pve people join it. We on Elona could easily mess with Vizunah but due the fact that we lose like 50% of the pugs if it gets difficult we are always outnumbered at night.
In my opinion Vizunah is full of zombies. They never sleep and aer superior. but it’s get boring. Don’t blame them for playing wvw like it’s supposed to be.

i didnt blame them, read my post again.
i agree with you, they just adapted but its boring for everyone , thats my point!

Mif.3471:

War doesn’t stop for nap time.

WvW isn’t war my friend, we want it to be!!

currently it is “who has more points” and thats exactly what is boring about NA ladder and Vizunah playstle :P

Wow, wasn’t expecting the “night-capping” debate to resurface.

But yes, while we’ve chewed through this whole debate many times before the fact that 10 people at night achieve more than 100 people during the day seems like a pretty broken system.

We’ve pointed this out to ANet for months now but they never bothered to change anything about it.

The issue was more or less forgotten when WvW matches became more balanced and fights were on more equal footing but the problem still remained.

If you look at the official response to the night-capping debate it shows ANets completely disregard for the issue. So I wouldn’t expect them to change anything about it anytime soon.

As for me, I see no downside as to why the point accumulation should scale with the current player activity.

This quite honestly is not a night capping issues, more of how the points are allotted for the effort put in.

right now, my 1 hour effort at morning is a lot more fruitful than my 1 hour in the evening, which is wrong in my opinion.

This game needs a weighted scoring system. i.e. if you have zero opposition and cap a keep then hold it for 8 hours vs no opposition you should get substantially less than 25 points for each tick.

If you are outmanned and you hold a keep against massive forces, you should get substantially more than 25 points for each tick.

How many points you get should be adjusted based on how many people your team has vs how many people their team has. I don’t even know how you could implement this without getting it gamed because doing a player count at the end of each tick before adjusting the score is likely to result in large numbers of players logging out of WvW close to the end of each tick to inflate their own scoring potential.

In the end, whatever system Anet creates must rely on the majority of players in WvW wanting to play on a level playing field and choosing to allow skill and organization to be the most significant factors in the scoring system. But its not and so the winner is the server that gets worn down the slowest by attrition.

The score must nevertheless reflect the effort put into holding territory and discourage games of attrition. Attrition is absolutely the worst thing about WvW by a long way because if you have a significant enough off peak timezone advantage, it doesn’t matter how well anyone plays as long as your server can throw more players at opposing keeps when they are weakest. You wear them down faster than they wear you down. The game ceases to be a game for those who are outnumbered. Its like some terrible form of unpaid work. You either play and be miserable or don’t play at all.

Ever got into a 4 hour treb war with 5 or 6 focus eles camped on either side? That kind of game should not be incentivized by the scoring system because its a pure mind numbing deadlock. The only point of it is to drag a keep siege out to such an absurd length of time that your superior timezone coverage makes the experience less miserable for your opponents, who have nobody left to replenish their numbers.

There is no incentive in the scoring system to play creatively or to play well, only to stack population and coverage until creatively and skill are largely irrelevant. Theres a very good reason why every single matchup thread has very little talk about PvP, tactics, the strategy of how to win a (simulated) war – none of it is necessary to win. There is very little talk about team builds/composition. The only thing I ever see is players begging for transfers (ideally in non domestic timezones but most will take whatever they can get).

I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone wants to play this public relations game. The more I think about it, the more I think that this problem cannot be fixed by Anet unless the majority of WvW players cop on and start playing the game for the sake of playing it well.

I know this is part of the problem—- all the same—- I would personally extend the welcome mat to any EU players wishing to join us on SOS. Currently, EU prime time is our weakest time slot but we’re able to hold or own the rest of the clock. So if anyone out there wants to jump into a tier 1 server where your time spent WILL make a difference— please give us a consideration.

wasted.6817:

This so called PvD or nightcapping is a real problem, AN better start listen to ppl complaining about it and start thinking on solution. No one likes to play the game where they don’t stand a chance and realize that they also can’t improve, there’s no hope that they will learn something, improve and in future maybe will rival the top server, no, because it’s not about skill or organisation, you can’t improve here, just you need to sleep, work, go to uni/school, w/e. I’ve said that in other topic and will say this again, there shouldn’t be 2 ladders to start with, if WvW supposed to be 24/7 game mode then there should be 1 global ladder, that’s all there’s to it. It makes sense, current system doesn’t make any sense. Unless they come up with some kind of intelligent scoring system, which i doubt they will, at least not in thins decade. xP

i totally agree there, and that s why we really don t like to play vs VZ

No matter how many organized or good we are, www is only a matter of times you spend there. The server who spend more time in www goes first in the ladder. It s simple, and very very sad.

EU time is the weakest time for all the T1 servers except SoS. All this week VotF has invaded jqbl to take whatever they want during EU time because JQ doesn’t have the man power to defend. I think SoS loses most points during the final hours of SEA time, not EU time. If EU players are considering moving to NA tier 1 servers, choosing SoR or JQ will enable those servers to hold off VotF. You will have enemies to fight. Or you could go to SoS and help them pvdoor Jqbl.

Minoru.1237:

EU time is the weakest time for all the T1 servers except SoS. All this week VotF has invaded jqbl to take whatever they want during EU time because JQ doesn’t have the man power to defend. I think SoS loses most points during the final hours of SEA time, not EU time. If EU players are considering moving to NA tier 1 servers, choosing SoR or JQ will enable those servers to hold off VotF. You will have enemies to fight. Or you could go to SoS and help them pvdoor Jqbl.

LOL kk broskiiez.

I think the biggest issue is the point tick. You can hold a camp for 10 mins, other server caps for the tick, gets the points and you re-cap it right after and repeat.
You get nothing for the 80% of so of time that you held something for. For those that will say “get a capping team” WvWvW should be about the fights not about the 20% effort.

The famous legend about our hebrews french canadians of african origin.

We are so sorry to not give you a fights like RG on a mainly pugs server… Maybe you should move on something else now, and find a solution to beat our 25 night pugs for all borderlands ?
You cannot be helped by NA players this time. As you said yourself, you are by far the most populated server in EU, then mobilize your troops and train them.

_

ilmau.9781:

i totally agree there, and that s why we really don t like to play vs VZ

Oh ilmau, funny troll one more time. Two weeks without PRX were psychologically hard for you, i sympathize boy.

VS this week, we didn’t do a lot of point during the night .
So hope to you to find a solution to beat us ….

oh true we have african people helping us … oh true we have canadians, oh we do only Zerg’s fight , (ironic)

we only was 20-30 pugs at nights this week …. so stop crying and go playing ….

Qwixx.5923:

We are so sorry to not give you a fights like RG on a mainly pugs server…

I very much hope your not referring to my home server being a mostly pug server?

You can kitten off about each other but there is no need for that remark Piken has fought it’s way up from T8 and spent the majority of it’s time hovering between T4-T3 due to a lack of early morning coverage but by no means is it a pug server we give as best a fight to any server who is matched with us with a dash of RP fun thrown into the mix for good measure.

I’m pretty sure no one mentionned Piken… VS is a mainly pug server, nothing to be ashamed of, quite the opposite actually when you manage to do something with these premises. Afaic that’s what qwixx was meaning.

And yeah, this post now is pretty funny. This week deso has a stronger night presence than VS, yet they are still lagging far behind… could it be possible ?

The old claims from VS that they don’t have that many players at night but just have a 20/30 pretty constant number all day and organized be true ? Surely there is no way…

Enhancer.1385:

VS this week, we didn’t do a lot of point during the night .
So hope to you to find a solution to beat us ….

oh true we have african people helping us … oh true we have canadians, oh we do only Zerg’s fight , (ironic)

we only was 20-30 pugs at nights this week …. so stop crying and go playing ….

Maybe all your other players got bored of your playstile

Don’t sleep, take keeps!

All jokes aside, I don’t think a “simple” system such as less opponents = less points would solve anything (which is what is suggested here, if I understood it correctly).

Or rather, it would have A LOT of drawbacks, such as:
- “So, we have a strong night team, but always suffer during prime time? Let’s just not show up during prime time at all, that will reduce the value of their points, and just let’s take them back during night, as usual.”
- “Hey, they have a golem army, I don’t think we’ll be able to prevent them from taking our keeps!” “Ok, then everybody leave, it will reduce the value of their points, we’ll just take back everything when they’re elsewhere”
- “ kitten the match-up is almost over, they’re catching up and can end up first… Ok, everybody leave WvW, that will reduce the value of their points and let us win this match.”

Maybe those situations would not happen, that’s right. But they definitely could happen, and that is enough for me not to support this kind of system.

What I want to say with this is two-fold:
- I think that a system in which YOUR score would be dependent on your OPPONENT’s presence is a bad system (they’re your opponents = they want to beat you = they want to have a better score than you => they will imagine and do whatever it takes to prevent you from scoring)
- Human beings tend to chose the easiest solution to a problem. In this case, as shown above, it would be : just leave. I don’t think anybody would enjoy non-fights because all your opponents left just because they din’t think they would win (currently, people fight even if their chances of winning are low because that’s the easiest way to prevent opponents from scoring).

Of course, I don’t say the current system is flawless and perfectly fair or balanced. But I believe that a system in which my score would depend on whether my opponent decide to be there would be even worse.

Braindrops.6428:

Enhancer.1385:

VS this week, we didn’t do a lot of point during the night .
So hope to you to find a solution to beat us ….

oh true we have african people helping us … oh true we have canadians, oh we do only Zerg’s fight , (ironic)

we only was 20-30 pugs at nights this week …. so stop crying and go playing ….

Maybe all your other players got bored of your playstile

ha ? i’m interested to know what is our play style ? to worry for us

Enhancer.1385:

Braindrops.6428:

Enhancer.1385:

VS this week, we didn’t do a lot of point during the night .
So hope to you to find a solution to beat us ….

oh true we have african people helping us … oh true we have canadians, oh we do only Zerg’s fight , (ironic)

we only was 20-30 pugs at nights this week …. so stop crying and go playing ….

Maybe all your other players got bored of your playstile

ha ? i’m interested to know what is our play style ? to worry for us

PvD?

Braindrops.6428:

Enhancer.1385:

Braindrops.6428:

Enhancer.1385:

VS this week, we didn’t do a lot of point during the night .
So hope to you to find a solution to beat us ….

oh true we have african people helping us … oh true we have canadians, oh we do only Zerg’s fight , (ironic)

we only was 20-30 pugs at nights this week …. so stop crying and go playing ….

Maybe all your other players got bored of your playstile

ha ? i’m interested to know what is our play style ? to worry for us

PvD?

Sorry didn’t know what is PVD ?

Probably playing while listening to Paul van Dyk !

I wish there was a way to merge EU and NA servers to one Ranking in WvW and we all played each other.

Good post Salluks! Agree with your points, just a shame there is no simple solution to the matter.

Enhancer.1385:

Sorry didn’t know what is PVD ?

Player versus Door – night capping, in other words.

PvDoor is when there is no opponent to fight and you cap points uncontested.

Example: JQ asians PvDooring SoS

http://www.twitch.tv/johnnyhsu7/b/365230564

quickthorn.4918:

Enhancer.1385:

Sorry didn’t know what is PVD ?

Player versus Door – night capping, in other words.

he was obviously trolling m8

Yes, PvD at morning since the closure of the free transfer.
There is no more jumpers & NA players, we finally see the true value of former bandwagon servers that accuse us of boring gameplay while they have play only monozerg of 60+ guildies three primetimes a day against national pugs server. :o)

Qwixx.5923:

Yes, PvD at morning since the closure of the free transfer.
There is no more jumpers & NA players, we finally see the true value of former bandwagon servers that accuse us of boring gameplay while they have play only monozerg of 60+ guildies three primetimes a day against national pugs server. :o)

why do u get offended so easily , ill never understand, we are not accusing ur server
RELAX!!!!

salluks.6017:

why do u get offended so easily , ill never understand, we are not accusing ur server
RELAX!!!!

Don’t worry, i do not talk about you.

Atm in EU T1, nights are quite tight in the score between Deso and VZ. Actually Deso imho is winning the night. Nights would be much more fun if we had a 3rd server with night presence in the tier.

The problem comes in the morning, there only VS has some coverage. With no more free transfers its going be really difficult to change this.

Not to mention that to get some coverage in GMT mornings we would need people who’s prime-time starts in GMT+8/9/10. This means night players from Australia, China, Japan, Korea and east Russia.

I am against point value according to population as we would surely have the no-play tactics stated on above posts.

Maby mixing EU and US ladders would be a good option, but Im not sure if this is possible due to servers, lags and stuff of the sorts.

From what ive seen this week, it seems we (Deso) really struggle between 7am -12 pm (GMT). Desolation’s night teams do an excellent job gaining points, during the night the scores seem to be even between VS and Deso during these times.

Dee Jay.2460:

Wow, wasn’t expecting the “night-capping” debate to resurface.

But yes, while we’ve chewed through this whole debate many times before the fact that 10 people at night achieve more than 100 people during the day seems like a pretty broken system.

We’ve pointed this out to ANet for months now but they never bothered to change anything about it.

The issue was more or less forgotten when WvW matches became more balanced and fights were on more equal footing but the problem still remained.

If you look at the official response to the night-capping debate it shows ANets completely disregard for the issue. So I wouldn’t expect them to change anything about it anytime soon.

As for me, I see no downside as to why the point accumulation should scale with the current player activity.

Yes, well, all was mostly well in Wvw land until a handful of nitecappers moved servers to as low as T8 and subjected every server in Na to thier brand of play on their way to T1 lol.

On the face of it, some kind of handicap system that balances points and player activity sounds like a good idea. I wouldn’t want to be the person with the responsibility to come up with one that’s for sure.

Any scoring handicap system they come up with is not going to be correct the first time out of the box. I can’t imagine the uproar that will ensue as the devs implement one and then have to make the inevitable tweeks.

If we use professional sports as a model, it works pretty well and is actually what anet is already doing or has the capability to do. What professional sports do with cash restrictions for teams with higher skilled players, anet does with server populations and que times.

I’m not necessarily a big fan of lower transfer fees to lower tiered servers, but I can see how that could compensate in the extreme case of a T8 server who can not compete in WvW at all, or to a lesser extent other lower tiered servers. I am anticipating with dread the unintended consquences of encouraging an oceanic guild, like War Machine, and the resulting bandwagoners invading another T8 server, such as Kaineng, and disrupting their Wvw community, again.

There is hope lol. Hopefully the fees are adequate enough to forestall large moves as we saw before the free transfer deadline. Hopefully the tier matchups will settle down quickly enough and be competitive enough that players can get back to the business of enjoying the game.

In other words, I have nothing really to add lol. Except to say, let the moves the devs made eliminating free transfers, setting server maximums, and insisting on que times, to encourage the servers to balance out and reach a kind of steady, flat, and calm sea state. Then we can see if there is a tier out there with oceanic players who are constantly rolling their tier competitors in a permanent matchup.

Dalure.4691:

Like we all mentioned on forums…..merge the bloody servers….NA with EU you get 24/7 coverage……hope Arenanet will listen if it comes to merging servers.

/Peace

I don’t think thats possible. Latency on NA servers is bad enough as it is. Add another 200 ping to that and forget culling, you won’t see anything, ever.

sostronk.8167:

Dalure.4691:

Like we all mentioned on forums…..merge the bloody servers….NA with EU you get 24/7 coverage……hope Arenanet will listen if it comes to merging servers.

/Peace

I don’t think thats possible. Latency on NA servers is bad enough as it is. Add another 200 ping to that and forget culling, you won’t see anything, ever.

It wouldn’t solve the issue anyway. There are always going to be servers with better or worse oceanic population than their competitors. Either NA or EU players will be still complaining because each others “overseas” coveage on their server is substandard or non existent, exaclty as they do now.

The saddest thing about this issue is that Anet will not admit it is an issue.

I give this thread about 5-10 hours before some unnamed moderator will close it, claiming it has already been discussed in various threads.

They don’t want you discuss anymore, moreover, they will stomp any discussion, no matter how constructive it is. Their official answer, GW2 is a global game. Period. End of story.

Go ahead Anet – ignore this thread too. IT IS A PROBLEM. Just because you say it isn’t doesn’t make it true. There are some kitten good suggestions here, and you should take them into consideration. They come on here and post about it because it frustrates them. That much frustration only comes around when someone cares about something, so don’t stomp this thread, leave it open, better yet, read it and then do something about it.

Personally – the best solutions to date, in my opinion, include the following:

1. A handicapping system – points related – based on the ‘current active population.’ See the post above by Besetment for a better explanation. (This one is riddled with problems – but theory crafting it may yield some results. Talking about it ‘out-loud’ in these forums is the best way to make it work, as you will have more minds thinking about a solution that works than you can pay and field in your home office Anet.)

2. “Personally, I would like to see a buff implemented at night for defending NPC’s. Something like “Night Watch” which buffs their damage/HP, increases the number of guards defending keeps, lets them use player created siege weapons, and lets them automatically repair gates/walls until supplies are emptied. That way you can help slow down enemy advances at night by setting up siege and supply during the day. This would also increase the difficultly for night guilds and actually give them a decent WvW experience.” –Indure

This is also a fantastic idea – but I think you have to remember that it works both ways. If you’re a North American Player, like me, then we are the Asian and Oceanic night-cappers. Does that make sense? Instead – use up to the minute population imbalances as the starting point. As one server’s population decreases AND the other server’s population increases – make the NPCs stronger and more numerous – by increments related to the size of the imbalance. This would make it easier and easier to defend – and harder and harder to make offensive moves as the imbalance progresses. You could even have the Yaks move faster for the lower population server(s). You could also have the NPCs perform functions such as repairing gates, without upgrading, or as part of an upgrade, either way works. Maybe a system by which only certain upgrades become available as your population decreases to abysmal numbers, a ‘last stand’ upgrade option. This one has some real possibilities I think.Then as they begin to rebalance – the buff to the NPC’s would diminish. I like it. That’s a very clever way to fix the problem in my opinion.

Just make it so that there is a diminishing return in points you gain the more things you got capped.
That would make sure that a server holding 100% for 5 hours and does squat during the rest of the time cause they can easily defend T3 stuff , can not win from a server that holds 50% for 10 hours.
This would not discriminate between what timezone you play from, but would reward the most consistent server.

it’s not broken, 24 hr game. Learn to love it or don’t play. maybe u will be missed maybe not.

The Goat.1940:

it’s not broken, 24 hr game. Learn to love it or don’t play. maybe u will be missed maybe not.

if u don’t read the Op post , then maybe just don’t comment on it?
and its not meant for you, we are discussing EU here, so if u dont have anything constructive to add, then please just ignore the thread.

They should make 24 hr servers then if that is how they want it. Pair the best NA with worse EU. Pair the best EU with the worse N/A. The middle servers would be paired with middle servers. The overall coverage should be improved for all the servers. As your server improves you are paired with a weaker server. If your server isn’t so good, you get a more powerful ally.

Right now it is just plain dumb. The server with the best off hour coverage wins. Nothing else matters.

suprNovae.5410:

I don’t think Vizunah has a much better coverage than other servers.

Then you must not have seen their very early morning 20-40man golem zergs cleaning up 2/3 of all maps, effortlessly outmanning the other 2 top EU servers whoever they are that week.

I don’t think merging NA and EU servers would solve any problems either, other than giving vizunah actual competition while bumping all other EU servers even further down the tiers. Of course I would support anything that keeps vizunah out of my matchups.

salluks.6017:

The Goat.1940:

it’s not broken, 24 hr game. Learn to love it or don’t play. maybe u will be missed maybe not.

if u don’t read the Op post , then maybe just don’t comment on it?
and its not meant for you, we are discussing EU here, so if u dont have anything constructive to add, then please just ignore the thread.

my post was very constructive. In addition, I will post on any thread I want. You don’t have to like the truth. You sound like a spoild child! lmao

To keep on topic here: The 24 hr thing works on EU servers too that’s the funny thing about the planet.

In NA also dont works because for better coverage you need to transfer to the biggest server, many ppl = better coverage… thats why wvwvw is a fail, everyone is on 1 server to fight the other 2nd server the nightcapers from australia, so tier one in america is everyone in 1 server vs the australian server … and the 3rd victim…

I think they should put the score doble in weekend because is when the small servers can win them, otherwise they cant match the week time at night and even more ppl go to the server nº1, making the problem worse…

Better the do something soon to improve wvwvw matches because right now im here just waiting for ESO and all the others are also doing the same probably