Guild Wars 2

Honestly, I’d love to hear why?

My main is Guardian, I play WvW casually on a T2 server, and I don’t remember last time being killed by a Thief, nor do I have any problems with Perma Stealth.

Where’s the problem?
Are people just bad or unwilling to learn to play better?

Ppl wanna see high dmg numbers. Therefor ppl go glass cannon (and therefor are just paper on the battle field) without rly having the reaction time or the battle field awareness to fight even an average thief. Therefor they say thieves are OP, because they get trolled and steam rolled by them, That’s my guess…

Thank you.

But on topic: Players doesn’t like the fact that their profession, that’s built for group play, is killed by the strongest 1v1 profession in the game. Or they complain because we can run away, or just because we can stealth.

Well, I have 3100 Toughness… and over 1000 healing.
I don’t see the problem, maybe don’t run full berserker armor?

Eh, it’s the implementation of Stealth (in this case, it’s really invisibility) that tweaks people.

Then again pretty much invisibility in ANY PvP game ends up frustrating people – that’s just a human factor. This game is no different than others in that regard.

My only gripe is the Stealth off of gate/walls to solo contest keeps.
Kinda cheap in my mind – yes.
Game breaking – no.

OP

Read the Deleted/Infracted, Closed and Pending threads and posts.

There you will find what your looking for.

Valin.4527:

Eh, it’s the implementation of Stealth (in this case, it’s really invisibility) that tweaks people.

Then again pretty much invisibility in ANY PvP game ends up frustrating people – that’s just a human factor. This game is no different than others in that regard.

My only gripe is the Stealth off of gate/walls to solo contest keeps.
Kinda cheap in my mind – yes.
Game breaking – no.

It looks like thieves that move on to other professions are the only one being able to kill other thieves with that profession… Stealth is so easy to counter that it isn’t even funny. Thief is the easiest class to predict, really.

Don’t you earn more XP and Karma running with Zergs?

Geiir.7603:

Valin.4527:

Eh, it’s the implementation of Stealth (in this case, it’s really invisibility) that tweaks people.

Then again pretty much invisibility in ANY PvP game ends up frustrating people – that’s just a human factor. This game is no different than others in that regard.

My only gripe is the Stealth off of gate/walls to solo contest keeps.
Kinda cheap in my mind – yes.
Game breaking – no.

It looks like thieves that move on to other professions are the only one being able to kill other thieves with that profession… Stealth is so easy to counter that it isn’t even funny. Thief is the easiest class to predict, really.

I was speaking to the opinion of why people may complain about thieves…they don’t bother me much, have an 80 thief that I leveled to see what the hype was about. Fun but didn’t fit with my playstyle.

But yeah, play a thief and you’ll figure out they aren’t super uber villains of Tyria – and a really good player on a thief will be super frustrating but if looked at objectively is a work of art with what they can do.

Geiir.7603:

Valin.4527:

Eh, it’s the implementation of Stealth (in this case, it’s really invisibility) that tweaks people.

Then again pretty much invisibility in ANY PvP game ends up frustrating people – that’s just a human factor. This game is no different than others in that regard.

My only gripe is the Stealth off of gate/walls to solo contest keeps.
Kinda cheap in my mind – yes.
Game breaking – no.

It looks like thieves that move on to other professions are the only one being able to kill other thieves with that profession… Stealth is so easy to counter that it isn’t even funny. Thief is the easiest class to predict, really.

Says the Asuran Thief.

Look, you can counter bad thieves pretty easily, I admit that. But even semi-good thieves are hard to fight in WvW. A semi-good thief can make you think they’re moving 1 direction, while somehow managing to go waaaaay off the other direction. A good thief will try to burst you down, and if it fails, stealth / run away to break combat, and then come back when their CD’s are done.

The thing is, in WvW, you guys can break combat so easily its not even funny. All you have to do is trick us once in the direction you’re going, and then move the other direction. You can get a full health bar, regain initiative, and then try again the next time to burst someone down. And many of you do hit that big shiny reset button, then come back to try again. Maybe you’ll get lucky the next time and get 5 crits in a row instead of 3, who knows?

I don’t propose someone nerf thieves to oblivion, though. I will admit that probably 75% of the complaints against thieves are more about the complainer being a glass cannon or not knowing how to fight one. But there is some legitimacy to the complaints in you guys being able to break combat so easily.

Just so you know, I’m not a glass cannon, and I do know how to fight thieves. Bunker d/d ele, and I can either kill bad thieves or ignore good ones.

Is there an mmo where Scouts are not OPed?

Seriously I think the stealth mechanic at this point is worthy of being banned from all future mmos. It only serves to break any game it’s in.

Nick.6972:

Don’t you earn more XP and Karma running with Zergs?

You have to complete objectives; taking keep/ supply camp etc.. and not forgetting kills with zerg group.

AggieTechGuy.4901:

Geiir.7603:

Valin.4527:

Eh, it’s the implementation of Stealth (in this case, it’s really invisibility) that tweaks people.

Then again pretty much invisibility in ANY PvP game ends up frustrating people – that’s just a human factor. This game is no different than others in that regard.

My only gripe is the Stealth off of gate/walls to solo contest keeps.
Kinda cheap in my mind – yes.
Game breaking – no.

It looks like thieves that move on to other professions are the only one being able to kill other thieves with that profession… Stealth is so easy to counter that it isn’t even funny. Thief is the easiest class to predict, really.

Says the Asuran Thief.

Look, you can counter bad thieves pretty easily, I admit that. But even semi-good thieves are hard to fight in WvW. A semi-good thief can make you think they’re moving 1 direction, while somehow managing to go waaaaay off the other direction. A good thief will try to burst you down, and if it fails, stealth / run away to break combat, and then come back when their CD’s are done.

The thing is, in WvW, you guys can break combat so easily its not even funny. All you have to do is trick us once in the direction you’re going, and then move the other direction. You can get a full health bar, regain initiative, and then try again the next time to burst someone down. And many of you do hit that big shiny reset button, then come back to try again. Maybe you’ll get lucky the next time and get 5 crits in a row instead of 3, who knows?

I don’t propose someone nerf thieves to oblivion, though. I will admit that probably 75% of the complaints against thieves are more about the complainer being a glass cannon or not knowing how to fight one. But there is some legitimacy to the complaints in you guys being able to break combat so easily.

Just so you know, I’m not a glass cannon, and I do know how to fight thieves. Bunker d/d ele, and I can either kill bad thieves or ignore good ones.

This is basically my only gripe with them. It’s the fact they can get into combat, step away, or move away and regen really fast and come back with full health. But, it’s not game breaking. The only reason I hate thieves is it seems like a lose-lose most of the time. Either they get a few lucky crits (as a support build mesmer I sit with around 28k health), or they run off and don’t let me kill them :P

I know as a mesmer when I run with stealth (do lay portals, get through enemy lines, etc), having a 1200 range blink+decoy can get me basically past any defensive lines without the enemy even seeing me. Stealth + teleport is a very powerful tool to have.

Nick.6972:

Well, I have 3100 Toughness… and over 1000 healing.
I don’t see the problem, maybe don’t run full berserker armor?

3100 toughness? I think you mean armor.

Sounds like thieves don’t give you too much of an issue because you’re a bunker guardian. It also means with your build you probably can’t kill anyone (let alone a good thief) unless you’re in a large group or if the player is really bad. Actually, with a bunker guardian you might win a 1v1 fight if it lasts 30 minutes and the enemy falls asleep.

I main a warrior, thief, and guardian. Playing my thief is such easy mode and I can see why people complain about them so much. For example…..I can have high toughness, low crit chance, but 112% crit damage with cavalier gear and my backstab has 100% chance to crit because of a trait. I can hit you with one every 4 seconds and deal 6-10k damage each time.

Cheese mode.

Last day I was runing with two recruits. Three thieves roaming in enemy field.
Suddenly an enemy thief appeared in our back and killed one of the recruits. Then he tried to kill me and he couldn’t due to my knowledge of the stealths. The remaining recruit and I tried to kill him, but we couldn’t, he was frankly skilful and managed the rythm of the fight frankly well. Two thieves against one and we couldn’t beat him.
Was this due to stealth or was due to a skilful fighter?
We had some more stealth options than him.
Now let’s imagine that all the people who qq here has been stomped by one or several skilful thieves. It could seem that it is almost impossible to beat due to stealth. In fact you were fighting against above average players.
Perhaps I should start complaining about stealth, or perhaps I should congratulate an skilful thief.

Best,

Haltair

Haltair.3062:

Last day I was runing with two recruits. Three thieves roaming in enemy field.
Suddenly an enemy thief appeared in our back and killed one of the recruits. Then he tried to kill me and he couldn’t due to my knowledge of the stealths. The remaining recruit and I tried to kill him, but we couldn’t, he was frankly skilful and managed the rythm of the fight frankly well. Two thieves against one and we couldn’t beat him.
Was this due to stealth or was due to a skilful fighter?
We had some more stealth options than him.
Now let’s imagine that all the people who qq here has been stomped by one or several skilful thieves. It could seem that it is almost impossible to beat due to stealth. In fact you were fighting against above average players.
Perhaps I should start complaining about stealth, or perhaps I should congratulate an skilful thief.

Best,

Haltair

See, in your example, the thief is clearly OP.

• Trollface *

EvilSardine.9635:

Nick.6972:

Well, I have 3100 Toughness… and over 1000 healing.
I don’t see the problem, maybe don’t run full berserker armor?

3100 toughness? I think you mean armor.

Sounds like thieves don’t give you too much of an issue because you’re a bunker guardian. It also means with your build you probably can’t kill anyone (let alone a good thief) unless you’re in a large group or if the player is really bad. Actually, with a bunker guardian you might win a 1v1 fight if it lasts 30 minutes and the enemy falls asleep.

I main a warrior, thief, and guardian. Playing my thief is such easy mode and I can see why people complain about them so much. For example…..I can have high toughness, low crit chance, but 112% crit damage with cavalier gear and my backstab has 100% chance to crit because of a trait. I can hit you with one every 4 seconds and deal 6-10k damage each time.

Cheese mode.

3000 Attack, 28% Crit, 3085* Armor (Staff)/ 2945 GS, Crit DMG 55%, 810* Heal, I can kill stuff easily too, ofc, not as blazingly fast as other professions, but I dont want to sacrifice survivability for extra dmg.

Nick.6972:

Are people just bad or unwilling to learn to play better?

Yes

Here’s my problem with theives:
I go out to roam solo on my guardian. Theif opens on me, get him to 20% without losing any hitpoints and he escapes. I continue on because clearly I “won” the fight. But hes back. Repeat from south camp to north camp.

And all of this wouldn’t be so bad except that when you solo roam 50% of the people you come across are thieves, 25% are mesmers, and the rest are a mix of everything else. Seems like stealth is just too good to pass up if you don’t want a full party.

Sarsbear.3469:

Here’s my problem with theives:
I go out to roam solo on my guardian. Theif opens on me, get him to 20% without losing any hitpoints and he escapes. I continue on because clearly I “won” the fight. But hes back. Repeat from south camp to north camp.

What you are to group play is what the thief is to roaming… hard to kill and effective.Taking away a thief’s escape abilities would be akin to removing all the guardians group abilities.

The fact that a decently played guardian is very hard to kill solo and once it merges into skirmish or zerg play becomes one of the most powerful classes in that environment should temper any frustrations with the thief in solo play.

The problem with thieves is that you’re “fighting” something you cannot see or target for more than 50% of the fight. If I could de-buff stealth I wouldn’t have an issue with it.

It is truly annoying.

Renxian.6982:

Nick.6972:

Are people just bad or unwilling to learn to play better?

Yes

This.

Reinforcments.5713:

Is there an mmo where Scouts are not OPed?

Seriously I think the stealth mechanic at this point is worthy of being banned from all future mmos. It only serves to break any game it’s in.

actually…… yes, there is. and interestingly enough, it isn’t based off of MMO mechanics. if you want balanced stealth, look to tabletop systems. D&D has a pretty well balanced stealth system, as well as several other systems. how it works is that there’s a list of skills, things such as picking locks, disabling traps, stealth and its counter of perception, etc. each level up, the character gets a certain amount of points to allocate to these skills. so a stealth character would, obviously, max out their stealth, while a spotter would max out their perception. there would be a d20 roll (every 6 seconds, distance would also factor in) to each to get a little bit of random chance into the equation, and whoever’s end score is higher, wins. and since it only takes 1 success perception roll to win, having it rolled every 6 seconds is actually in favor of the spotter if both scores are equal. now, in D&D, certain pieces of gear gives bonuses to these skills. the bonuses don’t stack, and certain types of bonuses can only go on specific pieces of gear (perception goes on headgear, etc). and there is a hard limit on how high the bonuses can go. your base stats also factor into these bonuses as well. furthermore, being damaged in stealth does not break stealth, because all it takes is one spotter saying “there’s the hiding guy. i’ll go run up to him, everyone else AoE nuke the crap out of where i’m standing”, and the stealth character is screwed.

but…… the vast majority of MMO’s have a tendency to ignore over 40 years of balancing, and just plop in whatever crap WoW discarded, and call it a day. even neverwinter has done this, which was……. horrifying, to say the least. D&D online, however, stuck true to the core system, and despite any other problems the game may have, the stealth system is actually good.

it’s NOT hard to make a balanced stealth system, and MMOs shouldn’t shy away from stealth in the future. they should, however, shy away from the same recycled crap that didn’t work in the countless MMOs that came before them, and go back to something that actually worked. and this is where i expect shadowrun online to succeed where countless other MMOs have failed, and some never even bothered to try. it’s disturbingly simple to do it right, as well as add in several other mechanics as well.

then the threads would be “i can’t see that stealth guy ganking me! they’re so OP” “just put points into perception…..” “OH CRAP! that worked! sorry about the fuss…” and the world will be a better place.

Handin.4032:

AggieTechGuy.4901:

Geiir.7603:

Valin.4527:

Eh, it’s the implementation of Stealth (in this case, it’s really invisibility) that tweaks people.

Then again pretty much invisibility in ANY PvP game ends up frustrating people – that’s just a human factor. This game is no different than others in that regard.

My only gripe is the Stealth off of gate/walls to solo contest keeps.
Kinda cheap in my mind – yes.
Game breaking – no.

It looks like thieves that move on to other professions are the only one being able to kill other thieves with that profession… Stealth is so easy to counter that it isn’t even funny. Thief is the easiest class to predict, really.

Says the Asuran Thief.

Look, you can counter bad thieves pretty easily, I admit that. But even semi-good thieves are hard to fight in WvW. A semi-good thief can make you think they’re moving 1 direction, while somehow managing to go waaaaay off the other direction. A good thief will try to burst you down, and if it fails, stealth / run away to break combat, and then come back when their CD’s are done.

The thing is, in WvW, you guys can break combat so easily its not even funny. All you have to do is trick us once in the direction you’re going, and then move the other direction. You can get a full health bar, regain initiative, and then try again the next time to burst someone down. And many of you do hit that big shiny reset button, then come back to try again. Maybe you’ll get lucky the next time and get 5 crits in a row instead of 3, who knows?

I don’t propose someone nerf thieves to oblivion, though. I will admit that probably 75% of the complaints against thieves are more about the complainer being a glass cannon or not knowing how to fight one. But there is some legitimacy to the complaints in you guys being able to break combat so easily.

Just so you know, I’m not a glass cannon, and I do know how to fight thieves. Bunker d/d ele, and I can either kill bad thieves or ignore good ones.

This is basically my only gripe with them. It’s the fact they can get into combat, step away, or move away and regen really fast and come back with full health. But, it’s not game breaking. The only reason I hate thieves is it seems like a lose-lose most of the time. Either they get a few lucky crits (as a support build mesmer I sit with around 28k health), or they run off and don’t let me kill them :P

I know as a mesmer when I run with stealth (do lay portals, get through enemy lines, etc), having a 1200 range blink+decoy can get me basically past any defensive lines without the enemy even seeing me. Stealth + teleport is a very powerful tool to have.

Any good player will be a nightmare to fight against on any profession. Good warriors will rip thieves to pieces, good necros will bleed us dry before we knew what hit us – so that pretty much applies to every profession.

I really do see the frustration people have. You can’t see us and we can reset and enter fights at will. We are ridiculously strong in a 1v1 situation, but are not really any benefit to a zerg unless we want to be mobile blast finishers. So it would be natural for a decent thief to beat a decent player if he’s built for zerging.

What really destroyed the thief was all the non-thief players that want to steamroll everything in WvW and switched to theif after getting face-rolled by one. It’s very tempting to abuse our mechanics and troll people – which far too many thieves sadly do :/

I rolled a thief to see what all the fuss was about. I played S/D and just PvE’d my way to 80 (cleaving sword autoattack+black powder+heal signet+health on initiative is silly OP in PvE btw), then grabbed a pistol and played a troll P/D build in WvW for a couple of days, since I don’t go for burst builds.

My experience was (and keep in mind I was definitely pretty bad at thief) that I could 1v1 very effectively using about 5 actions, and not die unless I more or less decided to. That is, I would either win or just disengage. 1v2, again I would definitely not die unless I pretty much chose to, but wasn’t really very effective at downing opponents. In zerg combat, I thought that my thief seemed pretty useless, although it wasn’t specced for shortbow I guess.

I think people think thief is OP because it is an amazing class for making your opponent feel helpless and / or stupid in 1v1 or small group play, which is when I think such things are most glaring (this actually is why I decided to try the class out – I was taken apart 1v1 by a P/D thief, and wanted to figure out the hows and whys). The reason your opponent feels that way is because they are in fact often pretty much helpless – they can’t get hold of you to kill you, conditions slip off you, you heal up every few seconds, they can’t run away because of cripples, etc. Thief was just given a lot of (I won’t say too many) tools on top of stealth.

All this said, I don’t play my thief much anymore because I don’t think it’d be as effective as other choices for large group or ZvZ, which it seems to me is what actually decides WvW matchups. So maybe it’s balanced in a way, but not in a way that will make people not cry when they get abused by a thief in 1v1 or small group play. For what it’s worth, I think thief is pretty much fine. I think a thief class or something like it probably needs to exist, just like ZvZ AOE classes need to exist.

The biggest issue with thieves is that players want to be able to solo roam without getting ambushed by what is the best ambush class in the game. That’s really all there is to it.

In small team fights, thieves can contribute a bit with targeted kills and giving stealth to other teammates, but otherwise they’re nothing too special. Best part here is that they have a spammable blast finisher on one of their weapons.

In big team fights thieves don’t do anything that meaningful. They have short range on their ranged skills, and they need to be in melee range to do a ton of damage. Their support skills are mild, and other than stealthing and targeted kills there’s always a class that can do better.

In zerg fights thieves might as well not be there, since there isn’t any targeted kills that are meaningful. Other than scorpion wire pulling enemies into the horde of ants one by one, there isn’t anything special they accomplish.

For tower/keep defense they aren’t particularly special. They have short range on their AoE attacks, and they don’t have distanced controls, either. Other than stealthing a small group to ambush a far off undefended siege, they contribute nothing special.

For tower/keep assault… you know the drill. They can spam cluster bomb on the walls while being at dangerously close range, and they can pull players off the wall with scorpion wire, but otherwise they might as well not be there. This is nothing special at all.

There are only two places where the thief really shines, and that is ambushing solo roamers/very small groups, and in small group vs. group combat. Some player will be running around the map by themselves, a thief specced to ambush people will see them, that player won’t see the thief coming, and then after the thief ambushes them they come to the forums and cry that thieves are OP in WvW.

I couldn’t disagree more. On the map, thieves contribute little more than ganking solo roamers that themselves don’t contribute that much. Their utilities otherwise are not unique and far from being the most potent of their kind, rendering most classes other than a thief preferable to the WvW scene. The only class that arguably contributes less to WvW is the ranger.

your main is a guardian…thieves can’t do anything to decent guardians. try playing another class thats not the tankiest and has the best healing, and then you’ll see why people complain about thieves

Well, personally, I’d love to see more solo roaming in WvW, if anything, 1v1 battles are much more fun for me personally than running with a mindless 30+ player zerg, but that’s just me.

Nick.6972:

Well, I have 3100 Toughness… and over 1000 healing.
I don’t see the problem, maybe don’t run full berserker armor?

You mean Armor

I think the only things that need looking at thieves are the radius of shadow refuge and serious consideration about a hard cap on CD, or reworking of hidden killer. Shadow refuge is not an issue in spvp because of the close quarters and commonality of CC. In WvW, all you have to do is create a gap with roll / shadowstep / etc. very quickly and shadow refuge is an ez mode ticket to safety no matter how bad you play or judgement is.

The base frustration in all the qq thieves threads over the months is that it’s very difficult to kill one unless they are very stupid. I am a player of medicore skill and take a lot of risk rolling through zergs, scouting, baiting players, engaging in outnumbered combat and very rarely die if I don’t want to (i.e. be the kitten that runs off when all my friends are dead).

Less QQ more pew pew.

Sarsbear.3469:

Here’s my problem with theives:
I go out to roam solo on my guardian. Theif opens on me, get him to 20% without losing any hitpoints and he escapes. I continue on because clearly I “won” the fight. But hes back. Repeat from south camp to north camp.

And all of this wouldn’t be so bad except that when you solo roam 50% of the people you come across are thieves, 25% are mesmers, and the rest are a mix of everything else. Seems like stealth is just too good to pass up if you don’t want a full party.

Where in that process did you die? If you didn’t die, he was merely annoying, not overpowered and not unfair.

And even if you died, that doesn’t necessarily mean much either. I find it astounding that players can’t understand that this game, like many others, has a rock/paper/scissors aspect to it. Not every class/build should expect to be balanced 1v1 against all other classes/builds. Some builds are strong in a group environment and weak in a solo environment. You sit here and whine about certain thieves in a 1v1 situation, but that same thief is likely to suck in a zerg unless he’s prowling around the fringes looking for stupid stragglers.

Nick.6972:

Well, personally, I’d love to see more solo roaming in WvW, if anything, 1v1 battles are much more fun for me personally than running with a mindless 30+ player zerg, but that’s just me.

Because of how stealth works, you will not see much solo roaming by anybody except thieves, mesmers, or very good pvp’ers there for giggles. This is because roaming is about bursting down your opponent quickly, and thieves and mesmers do it absolutely best (go on a spvp dueling server – only thieves and mesmers).

The problem with thieves (and to a lesser extent mesmer) is their “get out of jail free” cards. They can go full offensive, and still have every way to get away without losing such that the deck is heavily stacked against you. There isn’t any counter-play to “press 1/2 buttons and go 100% invisible.” When you can’t interrupt it, can’t snare them post-invis, and there is absolutely no way to knock them out of invis, you have lost all power in the fight. Your best bet is to just stay aware, move defensively, and prepare to counter-burst the ever-living crap out of them when they reveal for a few seconds.
This also presents a conundrum: if you build for enough dps to burst them down on revealed (when they can still evade/position), you are also much easier to take down yourself. You don’t have a crutch of stealth to make-up for a lack of defense.

EVERY other mechanic has counter-play, but not stealth. That is not fun. Sure, you can build very tanky and just run away, but it requires good play on your part to get away. Theif retreat doesn’t require good play, just a button.

If your built for 1v1 or small group play, thieves shouldn’t be a problem. The problem is, if your built for 1v1 or small group play in WvW, your not only hurting yourself but your server’s chances as well.

Basically a catch 22; do you play the selfishly or not. Unfortunately for thieves, if they try to spec themselves in anything outside of stealth/roam/1v1, they are just an all around bad class, even in the hands of great players. Anet built them this way unfortunately, and they don’t seem inclined to change it just yet.

Just know this, if you come across a stealthed/roaming thief in WvW, all they are doing is kittening their own server over with that style of play instead of actually attempting to help them out. Contesting waypoints makes little to no difference. Ambushes are next to impossible as most people tend to travel in packs. When you roam alone, you almost always get run over by a larger group.

Anet basically needs to rebuild the thief class from the ground up, as right now they are pretty much an EZ mode class for bad players. A bad player can be godlike with a thief, and such, most thief players are just all around bad players to begin with.

I really don’t understand it either.

Well, since you say you’re a bunker guardian on tier 2, obviously you don’t see the issue with thieves. The thieves won’t target people with aegis for starters because it’s their opener that deals the most damage, directly and indirectly.

Roaming thieves are an issue only in lower tiers. I’d say at about half tier and below. If you get up in high tiers, roamers become fewer an fewer because they’d run into a zerg all the time and get wiped. It’s just not fun. In lower tiers, you can roam around the entire map and not face a single zerg. The roaming style actually becomes something playable, common and useful.

Imagine you’re running around by yourself. Trying to catch up to a zerg, or w/e reasons. Then out of no where, a thief pops up. Backstabs you and takes out like 5k of your health. 1/3 is gone… Maybe they had Basilisk Venom when they attacked you. Just running by yourself in a relatively safe area, chances are, you probably weren’t paying much attention to the game. You can’t really move or do anything at this point. Thief lands a few more hits on you and bam. You’re downed.

Heck, it’s a lot worse if you’re an up level. They might even 1 hit ko you. Because if they see a green arrow, it means it’s a nice target.

Let’s say you’re not a low level. And lets say you can react in time. That’s what stun breakers are for after all. So, you managed to almost kill the thief? He disengages. Unless you’re fighting a really crappy thief, chances are, they can do this quite easily. Then, from stealth, the thief comes back. Then you beat him again…. and when almost dead, disengages. And this repeats. 5 times… Heck, some thief once even engaged me like 10 times before you finally got inside somewhere. By this time, you’re freaking annoyed because he’s preventing you from getting somewhere. Maybe he gets lucky next time, maybe you’re on cool down for something. You lose.

I fought a thief 3x and lost because I couldn’t target him. I read a lot of posts in here defending the thief, saying nothing of value (ex: you just need to know how to fight him).

Please explain how you beat a good thief as a mesmer when you cannot see him and you have no aoe?

yesfourme.8906:

I fought a thief 3x and lost because I couldn’t target him. I read a lot of posts in here defending the thief, saying nothing of value (ex: you just need to know how to fight him).

Please explain how you beat a good thief as a mesmer when you cannot see him and you have no aoe?

Mesmer is one of the easier classes to handle thieves. Just let your phantasms/clones do the work. And when they’re near dead, they’ll hide. But before you do that, shatter. They’ll chase the thief down and bomb him.

And you can invisi too… just not as well.

But still, against a “good thief”. Simple: you don’t. You just mind your own business and go where you were going. And defend yourself while going.

“you cannot see”. Therefore you cannot use phantasms/clones since you need a target.
Does that mean the thief cannot run after you if he is built to go stealth non stop?

Stealth isn’t the problem. The ability to reset any wvw pvp encounter is.

No regen or heal in stealth would go a long ways towards fixing this. Or better yet, no in-combat stealth at all.

Otherwise, this thread is a rehash of years of stealth complaints from every game that allows them to reset, and rogues/whatever insisting it is all about “skillz”

There are so many games where rogue is “unload, reset, rinse and repeat till the crits kill” Same old stuff, different game.

From reading everything, this kinda reminds me Assassins back in GW1, Shadow Prison spike build, could take down your enemy in less than 5 seconds.

I play a ranger and no, I don’t go glass cannon. In order to beat a thief I have to be specifically set up for them, and sorry, I don’t WvW to 1v1 so I’m not going to run an anti-thief build 24/7. With my usual setup if I run into one I can survive and get away, but never beat them.

The problem with thieves is after you can deal with their damage they simply outlast you. They’ll be bouncing in and out of combat, forcing their opponent to retarget them every few seconds, buying them all the time they need to their heal to come off cooldown.

The problem with having a class whose “thing” is that they’re strong in 1v1 situations is that they’re the only class that’s designed with that mentality. I mean really, out of 8 classes they’re the only one designed to kill people? What do the other classes do? Even with a class system as varied as GW2 there’s only so many roles out there. How come this is the only one designed for 1v1 fights?

This forum is rife with people complaining about zerging. Thieves are a huge reason you don’t see more roamers. I’m not saying a huge catastrophic nerf that breaks the class, they just need to be toned down a bit so that other classes can stand a chance of not just surviving a thief but beating one.

Kam.8109:

I play a ranger and no, I don’t go glass cannon. In order to beat a thief I have to be specifically set up for them, and sorry, I don’t WvW to 1v1 so I’m not going to run an anti-thief build 24/7. With my usual setup if I run into one I can survive and get away, but never beat them.

The problem with thieves is after you can deal with their damage they simply outlast you. They’ll be bouncing in and out of combat, forcing their opponent to retarget them every few seconds, buying them all the time they need to their heal to come off cooldown.

The problem with having a class whose “thing” is that they’re strong in 1v1 situations is that they’re the only class that’s designed with that mentality. I mean really, out of 8 classes they’re the only one designed to kill people? What do the other classes do? Even with a class system as varied as GW2 there’s only so many roles out there. How come this is the only one designed for 1v1 fights?

This forum is rife with people complaining about zerging. Thieves are a huge reason you don’t see more roamers. I’m not saying a huge catastrophic nerf that breaks the class, they just need to be toned down a bit so that other classes can stand a chance of not just surviving a thief but beating one.

I play a p/p thief and no, I don’t go glass cannon. In order to beat a guardian I have to be specifically set up for them, and sorry, I don’t WvW to 1v1 so I’m not going to run an anti-guardian build 24/7. With my usual setup if I run into one I can survive and get away, but never beat them….
I’m not saying a huge catastrophic nerf that breaks the guardian class, they just need to be toned down a bit so that other classes can stand a chance…

Best,

Haltair, one of the twelve shadows

Probably because they don’t play/haven’t faced Engis 1v1.

Haltair.3062:

Kam.8109:

I play a ranger and no, I don’t go glass cannon. In order to beat a thief I have to be specifically set up for them, and sorry, I don’t WvW to 1v1 so I’m not going to run an anti-thief build 24/7. With my usual setup if I run into one I can survive and get away, but never beat them.

The problem with thieves is after you can deal with their damage they simply outlast you. They’ll be bouncing in and out of combat, forcing their opponent to retarget them every few seconds, buying them all the time they need to their heal to come off cooldown.

The problem with having a class whose “thing” is that they’re strong in 1v1 situations is that they’re the only class that’s designed with that mentality. I mean really, out of 8 classes they’re the only one designed to kill people? What do the other classes do? Even with a class system as varied as GW2 there’s only so many roles out there. How come this is the only one designed for 1v1 fights?

This forum is rife with people complaining about zerging. Thieves are a huge reason you don’t see more roamers. I’m not saying a huge catastrophic nerf that breaks the class, they just need to be toned down a bit so that other classes can stand a chance of not just surviving a thief but beating one.

I play a p/p thief and no, I don’t go glass cannon. In order to beat a guardian I have to be specifically set up for them, and sorry, I don’t WvW to 1v1 so I’m not going to run an anti-guardian build 24/7. With my usual setup if I run into one I can survive and get away, but never beat them….
I’m not saying a huge catastrophic nerf that breaks the guardian class, they just need to be toned down a bit so that other classes can stand a chance…

Best,

Haltair, one of the twelve shadows

Guardians are made to have a use in group play, thieves don’t have that same use.

If you cannot beat a guardian, then your doing something wrong. I’m a terrible thief compared to others, and I have no problem taking one down. As I described in another post, most thief players are just all around bad players, so perhaps this is a prime example?

Nick.6972:

My main is Guardian…

Hmmmm… that’s a tough one. Easy mode vs. easier mode.

I choose Eddy Gordo.

Grumpy.8365:

The thieves won’t target people with aegis for starters

A thief can backstab a guardian with aegis, strip the aegis without revealing the thief, then the thief can backstab again.

A thief can spam backstab on a warrior using shield stance and it will not reveal the thief and eventually will land the hit when the stance is over. This applies to every block in the game and it’s BS and needs to be changed. Blocking should reveal a thief.

lunyboy.8672:

Nick.6972:

My main is Guardian…

Hmmmm… that’s a tough one. Easy mode vs. easier mode.

I choose Eddy Gordo.

What’s Hard Mode then? Ranger with no armor?

The reason you never had a problem with a Thief is because you’re a Guardian. Guardian is the Rock to Thiefs Scissors.

Kam.8109:

I play a ranger and no, I don’t go glass cannon. In order to beat a thief I have to be specifically set up for them, and sorry, I don’t WvW to 1v1 so I’m not going to run an anti-thief build 24/7. With my usual setup if I run into one I can survive and get away, but never beat them.

The problem with thieves is after you can deal with their damage they simply outlast you. They’ll be bouncing in and out of combat, forcing their opponent to retarget them every few seconds, buying them all the time they need to their heal to come off cooldown.

The problem with having a class whose “thing” is that they’re strong in 1v1 situations is that they’re the only class that’s designed with that mentality. I mean really, out of 8 classes they’re the only one designed to kill people? What do the other classes do? Even with a class system as varied as GW2 there’s only so many roles out there. How come this is the only one designed for 1v1 fights?

This forum is rife with people complaining about zerging. Thieves are a huge reason you don’t see more roamers. I’m not saying a huge catastrophic nerf that breaks the class, they just need to be toned down a bit so that other classes can stand a chance of not just surviving a thief but beating one.

This is that thing that a lot of people would like to avoid talking about. That Anet decided it was a good idea to design a class to irritate other players(gimmicky stealth and this goofy initiative system). We’re not forced to consider builds that are anti any other class (gee, I wonder why?!). I’m not glass cannon either but I’m still seeing 6- 8k backstabs + 22222222, and dealing with skills I can’t use because there is no target. At that point is this what one would call a fight? Just like every class can roam, they can also bring something to the group scene, even thieves, they complain about not taking damage well, no kitten they shouldn’t be on the front lines but they can stomp and wreck the backline etc so the unfair advantage they have in 1v1/small man situations isn’t justified period. The class was poorly designed from the bottom up.