Guild Wars 2

http://i.imgur.com/jA1wo5h.jpg I don’t think there is a single class that could survive this — how can it be allowed? The steal, cloak, and back stab happened while he was in stealth which means the only way I could stop it at all is if I preemptively dodged. Why is this amount of damage acceptable in WvW and not in Spvp? It’s still player versus player, this makes small scale WvW almost unbearable.

nerf != balance.

Acceptable thief balancing in WvW includes:
Reducing number of stealth-giving skills
Increasing reveal/decreasing stealth skill duration

I main a thief and the only thing that kitten es me off about thieves is the insane amount of stealth we get. Other than that I would say we are pretty balanced/tame.

Backstab is only a problem because:
It hits insanely high most of the time
There are a lot of skills that stealth you (mug(traited), heal, c+d, shadow refuge, blinding powder, and maybe some other traits I can’t think of atm.

The initiative it takes should be an entire bar, if not AT LEAST 80% of it.

Outside of zergs, all you see are thieves and mesmers. All over the place. Used to be DD ele’s too, now suspiciously after last couple patches, not so many of those.

Could it be a lot of those ele players… are now on thieves and mesmers! No!

Follow the population it will tell you the classes than need toned down.

There is (or should be) a lot more to WvW than running in a blob with 50 people. But for the majority of professions in this game, that is what they are reduced to, unless they want to face up to incredible imbalanced odds.

Yes, burst damage of thieves is too high for my taste too. And yes, thieves are purposely build to grieve players. And yes, to be the easy button for the brattier players. Thieves should get a 30% cut in burst, minimum. Also, stealth should break with a certain amount of damage is taken.

When the dev’s themselves use the word “cry” in their live streams, you know it’s something they think is great. I’d love to say what I really feel on the subject but, I’ll get another infraction Oh.. would I love the opportunity to freely speak on here…..

How about you put some toughness or vitality on? It’s quite a valid suggestion.

No sympathy for glassy characters.

honestly, all you need is bare minimum Knights armor. Maintain 2k armor, and you won’t fold instantly.

To be fair you are extremely glassy if you were bursted that badly. You might want to invest in a bit of toughness.

Stick with the zerg, or roll a thief for soloing – WvW golden rule.

…with the knights armor you can survive for the next attack from stealth. :P

Even with maxed out toughness, the damage mitigation wouldn’t have prevented death. What’s the maximum damage reduction, about 40%? That would leave over 23k dmg points left. Well more than enough to take down a Mesmer, right?

I don’t know what bubble people live to not see that with Ascended gear, the multiplying effects of power scaling is too high on thieves. The skill coefficient’s need to be dropped for WvW.

DeWolfe.2174:

Even with maxed out toughness, the damage mitigation wouldn’t have prevented death. What’s the maximum damage reduction, about 40%? That would leave over 23k dmg points left. Well more than enough to take down a Mesmer, right?

I don’t know what bubble people live to not see that with Ascended gear, the multiplying effects of power scaling is too high on thieves. The skill coefficient’s need to be dropped for WvW.

Because I haven’t been gibbed by a thief in a very long time, on any of my characters. What happened in the OP’s picture happened within 5 seconds. An acceptable range for use of dodges, stun breaks, and invulnerability, as well as returning some damage into the thief. If you keep running away from the thief, you leave your back open to be hit for the second backstab.

For him to achieve that kind of damage, he’s made of wet paper towels. Now don’t get me wrong. Dagger pistol is silly amounts of stealth, but Thief burst is really just punishing people who don’t build to counter it, or for sustained fighting.

That said, 3k armor would bring the full burst rotation around 12k damage. Assuming you actually eat the whole thing.

John Widdin.9618:

honestly, all you need is bare minimum Knights armor. Maintain 2k armor, and you won’t fold instantly.

I have 2.3k armor right now and 18k health

Haru Kane.4623:

John Widdin.9618:

honestly, all you need is bare minimum Knights armor. Maintain 2k armor, and you won’t fold instantly.

I have 2.3k armor right now and 18k health

Then you can’t be helped. You have the tools as a mesmer to deal with that. What build are you running?

thiagoperne.7340:

Thiefs are already balanced both WvW and spvp. Stop this thief spam threads, getting old and boring.

You got 7k and 11k, what are you? A mosquito?

If they are balanced then why isn’t every thief in spvp running 25-0-0-30-15 ( the build that thief and most 1 shot wonder thieves run) I am r43 and have played in almost 3k tournaments vs the best thieves in NA and none of them can do that much damage. So I do not believe that they are balanced equally. I run the exact build in spvp that I do in wvw.

John Widdin.9618:

Haru Kane.4623:

John Widdin.9618:

honestly, all you need is bare minimum Knights armor. Maintain 2k armor, and you won’t fold instantly.

I have 2.3k armor right now and 18k health

Then you can’t be helped. You have the tools as a mesmer to deal with that. What build are you running?

I’m running a standard shatter build 20-0-0-20-30, like I said in my original post, my only defense is to preemptively guess when he is going to jump me? The 20k damage spike hit me all at once while he was in stealth he didn’t come out until I was downed.

Haru Kane.4623:

Why is this amount of damage acceptable in WvW and not in Spvp? It’s still player versus player, this makes small scale WvW almost unbearable.

Its not acceptable, but the devs havent yet figured out how apply PvP ruleset to wvw without gimping thieves vs mobs/guards in wvw.

They have slowly implemented some changes such as contesting capture points while stealthed.

The reason I wasn’t able to respond with damage or distortion/evade before I died was because of how the build is able to be played. The thief stealths using either blinding powder, his heal skill or some other stealth. Once he has done that if you use steal and hit cloak and dagger at the same time you will do the steal damage and then immediately go into stealth. So he gets 3 seconds of stealth from his heal then he steals and hits cloak, now what should happen is the steal should pull him out of stealth and make him “revealed” for x amount of time but it doesn’t. Instead of the steal pulling him out of stealth the cloak and dagger stealths him skipping the debuff which allows him to get his backstab off without me ever being able to see him. I don’t know how it works exactly or if it’s a bug, but, almost every thief uses it in spvp (mainly with d/p)

Staff 2, sword 2, sword 4, scepter 2 and f4 can all be used to avoid or mitigate the burst. Learning and predicting the timing of the different stealth combos is the majority of learning how to beat thieves. If you aren’t going to put time and effort into learning the abilities of each class, or at least how to counter them, don’t expect to win any duels.

Floofs.3574:

Staff 2, sword 2, sword 4, scepter 2 and f4 can all be used to avoid or mitigate the burst. Learning and predicting the timing of the different stealth combos is the majority of learning how to beat thieves. If you aren’t going to put time and effort into learning the abilities of each class, or at least how to counter them, don’t expect to win any duels.

it wasn’t a duel, he got the jump on me I had an idea he was around but not exact coordinates.

Lifewaster.5912:

Its not acceptable, but the devs havent yet figured out how apply PvP ruleset to wvw without gimping thieves vs mobs/guards in wvw.

They have slowly implemented some changes such as contesting capture points while stealthed.

And, when Isaiah Cartwright say’s he runs his party with 2 Thieves and 2 Mesmers in it, don’t expect anything that might nerf his chances of capping that sentry

The best solution I can offer you is to find a good thief on another server and duel the poop out of him until you really get the hang of timing his stealths. Also remember that they can’t stay stealthed forever, if you think ones around sit in aoe and keep your finger on f4 (I’m assuming you’re running illusionary persona) or something similar. And the advice about running tangier builds is always good, you’d be surprised how much mesmers can do even in a defensive spec

Floofs.3574:

The best solution I can offer you is to find a good thief on another server and duel the poop out of him until you really get the hang of timing his stealths. Also remember that they can’t stay stealthed forever, if you think ones around sit in aoe and keep your finger on f4 (I’m assuming you’re running illusionary persona) or something similar. And the advice about running tangier builds is always good, you’d be surprised how much mesmers can do even in a defensive spec

While I respect and understand your dissection of my ability to play mesmer, I know how to play my class, even if I was able to mitigate some of that damage from the thief he can just run away, and even I do get a few skills on him he can just blinding powder and run away or cloak and dagger off of me or if it’s a d/p thief he can just stealth for days. That build has a 45 second recharge (or less) for the full damage and a 3 second recharge for more than 70% of the damage. There is a lot to learning the opposite class mechanics, but, I don’t feel like it can hold 100% of the blame, the damage output + amount of stealths that a thief can have on his bar at the same time is overkill in my opinion.

I’m not intending to sound to belittle you at all, sorry if its coming off that way. Just trying to share what works for me, as I am among the minority who think that thieves are absolutely fine the way they are. D/p is annoying as hell to fight, not going to deny that.

Glass cannon on any profession will do huge damage – it is nothing to do with the thief profession. It is to do with how powerful glass cannons are. Glass cannon shatter mesmers and kill shot warriors will insta-kill you just as easily.

Given how much damage you took I am suspicious that you are running a glass cannon build yourself. If so: live by the sword, die by the sword.

I run zerkers and 0/20/30/20/0 and I only backstab in the region of 5-8k.

You got hit for 11k which suggests to me that you have very little toughness in your build and the thief was a pure glass 25/30/0/0/15 build (possibly with the 5 stacks of might on signet activation trait).

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Glass cannon on any profession will do huge damage – it is nothing to do with the thief profession. It is to do with how powerful glass cannons are. Glass cannon shatter mesmers and kill shot warriors will insta-kill you just as easily.

Given how much damage you took I am suspicious that you are running a glass cannon build yourself. If so: live by the sword, die by the sword.

I run zerkers and 0/20/30/20/0 and I only backstab in the region of 5-8k.

You got hit for 11k which suggests to me that you have very little toughness in your build and the thief was a pure glass 25/30/0/0/15 build (possibly with the 5 stacks of might on signet activation trait).

Probably also had to have some blood lust stacked.

Phoenixfudge.5290:

How about you put some toughness or vitality on? It’s quite a valid suggestion.

Stealth, reset fight, rinse & repeat as much as necessary, until they get it right and finish you off, there for it isn’t a valid suggestion at all.

On the same token as someone else mentioned.. follow the population. If there is suddenly a spike in thieves or mesmers (like there is now), then yes there is a problem. If they don’t want to see their WvW population drop off, they best act now.

I’ve seen a few people on here simply say “don’t play WvW”, well have you been on a map you either completely open or nearly no players are present? Fun isn’t it…. be careful what you wish for.

Wow, wtf? Weren’t you wearing any armor OP? I can’t remember dying to a thief anytime recently.

btw, you know that backstab and mug are the same in PvP and WvW right?

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Glass cannon on any profession will do huge damage – it is nothing to do with the thief profession.

No. There are plenty of professions in this game that can TRY to be “huge” damage, but can’t get anywhere close to thieves. If you mean Warriors, then sure, they can roll glass and put up huge numbers, but the zeitgeist is heavily direct (critical) damage due to the lagging combat system which rewards the crit multiplier in PvE/WvW with the only true min-maxing calculation in the game. Ask an Guard or a Necro when the last time they put up a 10K+ crit.

An an engineer, when I roll completely glass, I can’t get anywhere near the DPS a thief can do with a “tanky” version of their build, but have none of the stealth, combat movement, or massive access to blinds to prevent me from cracking like a eggshell.

You are incorrectly making an apples to oranges comparison, and this discussion has EVERYTHING to do with the thief profession.

lunyboy.8672:

Ask an Guard or a Necro when the last time they put up a 10K+ crit. An an engineer, when I roll completely glass, I can’t get anywhere near the DPS a thief can do with a “tanky” version of their build, but have none of the stealth, combat movement, or massive access to blinds to prevent me from cracking like a eggshell.

When I’m in my ‘full glass’ set — only in PvE — my phantasmal berserker sometimes doesn’t bug and lands all hits for around 7k~ :O! That is, if I haven’t been blinded… and the foe isn’t invulnerable… and the foe doesn’t dodge or evade… and the phantasm isn’t killed instantly if it does spawn… and the phantasm isn’t blinded… and if my enemy doesn’t evade… or move… but, I mean, that’s pretty good!

lunyboy.8672:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Glass cannon on any profession will do huge damage – it is nothing to do with the thief profession.

No. There are plenty of professions in this game that can TRY to be “huge” damage, but can’t get anywhere close to thieves. If you mean Warriors, then sure, they can roll glass and put up huge numbers, but the zeitgeist is heavily direct (critical) damage due to the lagging combat system which rewards the crit multiplier in PvE/WvW with the only true min-maxing calculation in the game. Ask an Guard or a Necro when the last time they put up a 10K+ crit.

An an engineer, when I roll completely glass, I can’t get anywhere near the DPS a thief can do with a “tanky” version of their build, but have none of the stealth, combat movement, or massive access to blinds to prevent me from cracking like a eggshell.

You are incorrectly making an apples to oranges comparison, and this discussion has EVERYTHING to do with the thief profession.

I run a full zerker set on a ranger, and I can easily deal over 20K+ burst between rapid fire and the AoE barrage. This can be done to multiple people if they aren’t careful; however, my build makes me a sitting duck if anyone gets close. Imagine if I could stealth away at will to avoid retaliation?

This is where the problems with thieves arrives. Take any other class and turn them into glass cannons, they deal huge damage (some obviously bigger than others), but receive big damage in return. Thieves.. not so much.. they’ll just hit you for 10-20k before you can even react.. if they don’t down you, they’ll just stealth out, reset fight and repeat as needed.

Imagine if all classes had that ability to just reset fights at will.. it sure make things interesting..

style.6173:

Wow, wtf? Weren’t you wearing any armor OP? I can’t remember dying to a thief anytime recently.

btw, you know that backstab and mug are the same in PvP and WvW right?

The 7k dmg from cloak and dagger part of the combo hits harder in wvw. It was nerfed by 50% in pvp.
Also Food buffs and oils allow for higher burst dmg from all 3 hits of the combo.

And if the target survives the first wave, the second wave of cloak and dagger+backstab will hit them 25% sooner due to shorter revealed.

These are the main differences I can see with the OPs screenshot.

DeadlySynz.3471:

This is where the problems with thieves arrives. Take any other class and turn them into glass cannons, they deal huge damage (some obviously bigger than others), but receive big damage in return. Thieves.. not so much.. they’ll just hit you for 10-20k before you can even react.. if they don’t down you, they’ll just stealth out, reset fight and repeat as needed.

IDDQD.

1) You can outplay thieves if you know what you’re doing and how to do it.
2) You cannot catch one however, and you cannot kill one. (If the thief isn’t an idiot. If you can’t get away with 2-mash and permastealth, you need to drop GW2 and play Neopets. If you died, you picked a bad fight and underestimated your prey.)
3) Thieves have nothing going for them other than (what is admittedly annoying, and a crappy gameplay with close to no repercussion or counterplay) this pick and assassinate play. Their zerging capabilities are close to abysmal.

I’d say they’re 90% balanced in terms of DPS. HS burst is more or less okay, as it’s their only real spike and execution skill for D/x thieves that aren’t running high condition damage. In my opinion however, HS should take 1 more initiative every consecutive strike in a 2 second refesh window so they retain their slipperyness but are forced to think twice before smashing that 2 button 500 times in one second.

And their permastealth. Ick. So disgusting. There is zero counterplay to it – don’t know what kind of game designers Anet is bothering to use, but introducing a mechanic to the game that has literally ZERO counters to it is absurd. No class has a stealth detection mechanic whatsoever. Stealth detection traps are unwieldy and aren’t useful at all in duels until it’s too late. Things like shadow refuge makes people cry. Ridiculous stealth for thieves was a terrible blunder by Anet I don’t think they’ll ever acknowledge, however, and there’s really no way to counter it. There’s little point to WvW if you can’t spike enemies you beat, and a good thief will NEVER be spiked.

Reverting the 4s revealed change I felt was a mistake. Anet should just reinstate that.

Other than perma-stealth builds thiefs are fine (damage, utility etc) anet needs to nerf perma-stealth from being possible solo – while maybe adding a few more survivability options for the thief to use.

Well I never got a chance to do these types of crits after that last thief nerf patch thing……

on a downed 80 guardian….
http://imgur.com/ML85p

on an 80 engineer….
http://imgur.com/GE1zI

Staff 2, sword 2, sword 4, scepter 2 and f4 can all be used to avoid or mitigate the burst.

As a mesmer i can tell you: They can’t. You never know, when exactly a thief will backstab you, and the moment he does it’s too late to react. The best thing i can do is to spam these skills while the thief waits in stealth /point’ing and /laugh’ing at me and bursting me afterwards.

That said, i’m totally fine with most of the thief. This morning i fought a S/D thief who managed to nearly permastun me and won. He truly deserved that win. D/P stealth spam is basically the only unbalanced thief build currently.

Haru Kane.4623:

thiagoperne.7340:

Thiefs are already balanced both WvW and spvp. Stop this thief spam threads, getting old and boring.

You got 7k and 11k, what are you? A mosquito?

If they are balanced then why isn’t every thief in spvp running 25-0-0-30-15 ( the build that thief and most 1 shot wonder thieves run) I am r43 and have played in almost 3k tournaments vs the best thieves in NA and none of them can do that much damage. So I do not believe that they are balanced equally. I run the exact build in spvp that I do in wvw.

I don’t know what I find funnier, the fact you inflated your ego and spout tourney stats like we care, or the fact that a Thief spanked someone “so elite” as you to the point you made a forum topic.

Well done, OP. I coat myself in your tears and roam the map for more silly Akitten people.

only thieves have the right to build full glass canon due to their stealth and superior escape mechanics.

Thieves are not a problem in sPvP because (and I’m paraphrasing from a post I read not too long ago, somewhere):

-If the Thief is in stealth, he isn’t capping the point. Sure, he can keep running away, but in that time you are getting points while he is not. This doesn’t exist in WvW – I don’t get any benefits for chasing a random roaming Thief off other than a short breather before he comes back again (and again and again and again)

-sPvP is a lot smaller – for a Thief to contest a point, he has to be in a relatively small circle where I might randomly hit him. Not so in WvW with the large open fields.

-You know there is a Thief there. Thieves don’t randomly appear out of nowhere and gank you like in WvW, which lets you prepare beforehand.

This contributes to the difference in performance a lot more than a 3/4 second revealed, or CnD damage being halved.

That is also why there are so many bunkers in sPvP, but not (so many) in WvW.
“I’ll bunker on this rock with my crap mobility and hope enemy roamers fight me to the death” said nobody ever.

In other words, balancing Thief skills to match sPvP will do very little. Stealth is the problem because in WvW, it becomes infinitely better than in sPvP.

Yes I am fully aware that there are many people who don’t die to Thieves. However, do you ever kill them? When I’m on my Thief, there are obviously targets that are hard to win against, like players who out-skill me, and Guardians (because they are just hard to kill).

The broken mechanic that is stealth combined with ridiculous mobility from shortbow allows me to escape in almost all circumstances. I might not win, but I never have to lose. On the other side of the coin, chasing up and killing most other professions is not hard at all due to all the teleports.

In short, nobody can really kill me, but I can chase down almost anyone.

TLDR: While I don’t believe that Thieves are unbeatable at 1v1, being able to escape and fight at will is invaluable in a game mode that doesn’t punish you for running away.

I know a lot of Thieves will point to the quote from Anet that says “Thieves engage on their own terms” or something like that to justify the above. That’s alright, but as long as that statement holds true, the de-facto choice for WvW roaming will be a Thief. Being able to do what that quote said is just too strong.

And yes, I have a lv 80 Thief. It’s so easy. 2+ hours roaming (on a T2 WvW server, no less) without a single death.

Like I said in the other “omgthiefsostronknerfplzorelseiwillcry” thread.. I giggle every time I see one of these. Honestly, you should be banned from wvw for thinking you can run the same gear here as in PvP. Sure in some cases it might be fine, but this is a completely different game style, with completely different specs/balances. Just because you think you’re Oh So Pro in sPvP don’t think for one second that most WvW roamers(even guardian/warriors) can’t kick your kitten . Since we’re built for the big bad world out here, so stop crying.

I’ve honestly never been hit by a thief for more than 5k a backstab, and I have 3.1k armor, which is only 700 more than you. That’s why I dunno wtf you’re saying >.>

Anyhow! Invite some of your elitist friends over :p We want more meat!

EdotMP.1835:

Haru Kane.4623:

thiagoperne.7340:

Thiefs are already balanced both WvW and spvp. Stop this thief spam threads, getting old and boring.

You got 7k and 11k, what are you? A mosquito?

If they are balanced then why isn’t every thief in spvp running 25-0-0-30-15 ( the build that thief and most 1 shot wonder thieves run) I am r43 and have played in almost 3k tournaments vs the best thieves in NA and none of them can do that much damage. So I do not believe that they are balanced equally. I run the exact build in spvp that I do in wvw.

I don’t know what I find funnier, the fact you inflated your ego and spout tourney stats like we care, or the fact that a Thief spanked someone “so elite” as you to the point you made a forum topic.

Well done, OP. I coat myself in your tears and roam the map for more silly Akitten people.

Looking back it does look like I’m swinging my kitten, which I was a bit, but what I was trying to get across was the fact that I have played against a lot of good players and I have a pretty good grasp on the balance ( or lack there of) of the game especially in small scale pvp.

ChroNoS.6978:

Like I said in the other “omgthiefsostronknerfplzorelseiwillcry” thread.. I giggle every time I see one of these. Honestly, you should be banned from wvw for thinking you can run the same gear here as in PvP. Sure in some cases it might be fine, but this is a completely different game style, with completely different specs/balances. Just because you think you’re Oh So Pro in sPvP don’t think for one second that most WvW roamers(even guardian/warriors) can’t kick your kitten . Since we’re built for the big bad world out here, so stop crying.

I’ve honestly never been hit by a thief for more than 5k a backstab, and I have 3.1k armor, which is only 700 more than you. That’s why I dunno wtf you’re saying >.>

Anyhow! Invite some of your elitist friends over :p We want more meat!

I wasn’t making a statement about the difference in player skill between spvp and wvw I was saying that the fact that he could do that much damage to me was bullkitten and that I haven’t seen that from any players even in the spvp spectrum of the game. Basically I play a lot of wvw and a lot of spvp, and I assumed that most people here don’t care for spvp as much so I tried to tie both aspects of pvp into the same thread so my title would make sense. I can’t talk about balancing a class the same as it is in spvp and only talk about wvw, and if you didn’t know how attuned into the spvp community I am i.e. telling you my tourney amount and rank etc then why would you ever trust what I have to say about it?

Haru Kane.4623:

http://i.imgur.com/jA1wo5h.jpg I don’t think there is a single class that could survive this

Looking at the skills the thief used you obviously just stood there and did nothing. You deserved it.

I’m a Mesmer too and I don’t die to thief’s.

A thief without any stealth and his pathetic low hp pool would be dead meat, even with his high damage. A thief with perma stealth is a god in the hands of a player, who knows what he is doing.

Fact is that there are only 3 or 4 skills that guarantee stealth. Most of the utility skills have 30-50 sec cooldowns, the weapon skills have high initiative costs.
It wouldn’t be so hard to face a hard hitting thief if he had to rely only on the mentioned skills. The time between the cooldowns, when the thief cannot re-stealth, should be enough for every class to kill him.

The real problem are specific combo fields and combinations that make permanent stealth possible. And here is the real controversy of that class that should be reworked.

Dosed stealth is ok. Just a mechanic.
The possiblility to abuse perma-stealth should be absolutely inandmissible.

PS. Just to avoid “l2p”-arguments: I am a thief.

Haru Kane.4623:

ChroNoS.6978:

Like I said in the other “omgthiefsostronknerfplzorelseiwillcry” thread.. I giggle every time I see one of these. Honestly, you should be banned from wvw for thinking you can run the same gear here as in PvP. Sure in some cases it might be fine, but this is a completely different game style, with completely different specs/balances. Just because you think you’re Oh So Pro in sPvP don’t think for one second that most WvW roamers(even guardian/warriors) can’t kick your kitten . Since we’re built for the big bad world out here, so stop crying.

I’ve honestly never been hit by a thief for more than 5k a backstab, and I have 3.1k armor, which is only 700 more than you. That’s why I dunno wtf you’re saying >.>

Anyhow! Invite some of your elitist friends over :p We want more meat!

I wasn’t making a statement about the difference in player skill between spvp and wvw I was saying that the fact that he could do that much damage to me was bullkitten and that I haven’t seen that from any players even in the spvp spectrum of the game. Basically I play a lot of wvw and a lot of spvp, and I assumed that most people here don’t care for spvp as much so I tried to tie both aspects of pvp into the same thread so my title would make sense. I can’t talk about balancing a class the same as it is in spvp and only talk about wvw, and if you didn’t know how attuned into the spvp community I am i.e. telling you my tourney amount and rank etc then why would you ever trust what I have to say about it?

What I am saying is, WvW isn’t sPvP, it’s not nearly the same thing. It should NEVER be balanced the same way as in sPvP. So with all due respect, what you do and know about sPvP really doesn’t mean much at all. Like I said, the difference between WvW and sPvP is so much that most decent roamers will own most sPvP players, since we’re just more experienced in here than you are. Same as my kitten gets kicked to oblivion in tPvP, because I never play that and can’t even be bothered to redo a proper build in there.

The two are just not the same thing. Don’t compare them.

WAIT
A glass cannon guy is in here complaining that something looked at him funny and he fell over and died?

Nothing to see here, move along.

Haru Kane.4623:

thiagoperne.7340:

Thiefs are already balanced both WvW and spvp. Stop this thief spam threads, getting old and boring.

You got 7k and 11k, what are you? A mosquito?

If they are balanced then why isn’t every thief in spvp running 25-0-0-30-15 ( the build that thief and most 1 shot wonder thieves run)

This is actually not a common WvW build. 0-30-30-0-0, with the last 10 points dropped anywhere you like, is the more common “Hidden Killer” build. It is very, VERY likely that the Thief that killed you with those massive backstabs was using the “Hidden Killer” trait, which wouldn’t be possible in the build you listed. The really big difference between this build in sPvP and WvW is that Valkyrie stat gear, as we know it throughout the rest of the game, simply doesn’t exist in sPvP. Neither do food buffs, which can add up to +200 Power & +10% Crit Damage at the same time, for D/D Burst Thieves.

Haru Kane.4623:

I run the exact build in spvp that I do in wvw.

So the real complaint here is “I can get away with running a glass-cannon cloth build in 5v5 sPvP matches that only last a few minutes, why can’t I get away with it in week long WvW battles, where there may be hundreds of players on the map?!?”

In my view, this is how it went wrong a bit. It’s a theory, but I think there is a base of truth in it:

The reasoning for thieves is: because they have only a small damage window, they need to do burst.
That’s how it works in most MMO’s: stealth classes are weak to damage and need to hit fast before they get killed.

But that’s not how it works out in this game, even though they start from the same reasoning.

Because of the high capacity for restealth and avoidance, thieves actually have an incredibly big window for damage. In fact: they have several windows after each other.
The opponents are the ones with the very small window to do damage, not the thief since he can restealth.

Restealth is the reason why thieves should do slow steady damage.
And not high burst…

The thief profession was designed as a one-hit wonder like other stealth classes, but they added restealth to it which changes everything.

Haru Kane.4623:

http://i.imgur.com/jA1wo5h.jpg I don’t think there is a single class that could survive this — how can it be allowed? The steal, cloak, and back stab happened while he was in stealth which means the only way I could stop it at all is if I preemptively dodged. Why is this amount of damage acceptable in WvW and not in Spvp? It’s still player versus player, this makes small scale WvW almost unbearable.

Hey, I didn’t expect to get a spotlight Don’t make me regret partying with enemies to talk.

And for the record, I’m playing an all-out glass canon here. 25 stacks of +10 power, scholar runes, all ‘zerker exotics or ascended (missing 2 pieces of ascended jewelry), +power sigil, etc. This isn’t my normal build, but for yak-slaying and speed solo camp taking, it works the best that I’ve found.

The trade off is that I can die by being sneezed on. You got the jump on me seconds before and dropped me to half in 5 seconds. I had to skedaddle, get out of combat, and reengage on my own terms.

And the character name is “Tired of OP”, because I was tired of this happening to my ranger… I won’t go GC for long because it’s…. you know, a bit OP. But FA was not doing well, so I had to put my game face on.

I hope there aren’t hard feelings – I didn’t join your group and say “POWNED MF’ER!”. I hope you found me courteous at least.

Tired of OP
FA roamer
quick edit after actually reading more than the first post

The mesmer was downed after the first burst, so there was no reaction time – after the initial engagement and his damage, I C&D’d him, healed, and then appeared long enough to get steal+C&D+BS combo.

The spec I was running was 25/30/0/0/15. Hidden killer, +10% damage from runes of the scholar, +5% dagger damage.