Guild Wars 2

I predict that Eternal Battlegrounds will be absolutely slammed now.

Eternal always was more popular with the masses and I think it’s because it has a good pace to it. It never really stalemates. There’s always a good attack or defense going on.

The borderlands maps are more spread out, with more cliffs and winding paths and longer supply routes. Sieges tend to be longer, more expensive, more brutal affairs. There are fewer forts so there are fewer options. If one attack isn’t working out, there may not be much real choice on where else to hit.

The main reason the Borderlands got what action they did is because of the Orbs. Big-name guilds usually went straight there and fought for orbs. “Eternal Battlegrounds is for noobs” was the catchphrase. People tolerated the slower pace and fewer options of borderlands because it was so critical to capture and hold the orbs.

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Without the orbs, Borderlands are just going to be seen as the annoying maps you have to put up with when Eternal Battlegrounds is full.

I hope Arenanet is aware that Borderland maps aren’t as popular even WITH the orbs and now without them, I think player disgruntlement with WvW’s lack of maps will accelerate.

What is your issue with waiting until they aren’t exploitable and their risk vs reward is evaluated?
No one said orbs are gone forever, just going to be worked on.

Agreed, what else will there be to do in borderlands? It was nice to log in to a semi-even fight and have something to plan for. “Let’s go for the orb!” Now it will be… let’s defend this keep? That sounds so mundane.

Plus orbs make battles more fun, Without it, there is less incentive to have 3 way battles. Or those epic moments where someone sieged bay with 10 golems and your server went in behind to wipe all of them and take the orb for yourself.

RIP epic moments in borderlands

I don’t know if that is true. There are people that fight on the Borderlands because they like the maps more. Those people will remain. I only fight on the Tarnished Coast borderland, and I haven’t really noticed large groups of people there for the orb, other then the night the matches start.

psirca.9452:

No one said orbs are gone forever, just going to be worked on.

In the last 2 months, and really, in the last 6+ months of beta prior to release, we haven’t seen any real WvW content updates that I can think of. Lots of balance tweaks to skills and so forth but no new mechanics, maps, structures, siege engines or things like that.

I’m sure they are working on these things but it’s not where their focus is really at. They are focused on dungeon content, quest content and, to some extent, sPvP (especially tournaments).

I would bet that other WvW improvements are being worked on now, and Orb fixes will be behind that. I wouldn’t expect to see Orbs come back for several months.

That’s a long time for the borderlands to be seen as second-rate places to be.

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I dunno what the solution should be but I hope it’s something Arenanet thinks about. I’d like them to keep an eye on WvW map populations and see if they can’t band-aid something in if borderlands populations crashes, which I predict they will.

I will still be on the BLs strating n attacking n defending, if at all this will make things more balanced when behind and trying to get ahead.

Im glad Anetis taking this honest approach to solve the hacking rather than keeping a broken mechanic in place.

They clearly spelled out why orbs were bad. The fact that Hackers made such an easy target of them was reason enough. They said orbs would be back in some form when they could handle the other problems.

In the meantime handle your own BL becuase it’s YOUR BL and handle enemies BL’s to take them away from them. Instead of needing a tasty carrot how about going for REALM PRIDE.

Also, if BL’s really get lesser population then it will be even easier for you and some guildies to take it over right? More BL raids for poitns!!

In essence, it will balance itself out. Just chill. Orbs or something else will be back when they can get the system working a little better and a little less exploitable. I look forwards to that day but in the meantime YOU STAY OUT OF MY BORDERLAND!! I don’t need an orb to make it important to me.

In addition, think of the loss of this experience: taking the orb from the altar and running it back to your garrison, all in the meanwhile trying to defend the enemy from killing your orb carrier and resetting it/ stealing it. It’s one of my favorite moments in WvW when an orb is on the move and it just goes crazy trying to secure it. By removing the orbs of power, we will no longer have this experience available to us. I highly urge Anet to fix the altar problem and put them back in (maybe modified)

I’m copying parts of my posts from other threads because I really do believe ANet is listening to the community and I think the best chance for Orbs to stay in is for us (the community) to request it

" “Eternal Battlegrounds is for noobs” was the catchphrase. "

hrm…I haven’t thought of that …good point….
Good to see that the Elitist Attitude got smacked down too

I’m not too worried about ANet tweaking this. Wait and see.

We don’t need more orb threads.

I see someone forgot that playing wvw is about the score not the orbs. The orbs were never really in play very much. The orb was only ever in 1 keep, there are 2 other keeps and 4 towers to fight over. There are options other than slamming your face into the orb keep, it’s just whether or not your side has the mobility and coordination to get those other options to work.

I would like to see the orbs returned when they’re somehow made not hackable, and the rewards from them don’t turn the match into a land slide for the winning server.

Nothing will Change in the Borderlands as WvW is about fighting the other servers taking supply camps/towers & keeps & not all about ‘The Orb’ as some of you seem to think, the orb was just a bonus.

Anet are doing the right thing in getting rid of the orb for now till they can sort out the hacking problem since all this Orb hacking is doing is making players stop playing & that’s a bad thing for Anet since its a loss of possible revenue.

While I prefer the orb removal to the orbs staying as is, I agree with the general sentiment that there needs to be more to WvW. I wasn’t in the betas but if it’s true that no WvW content has been added in 6 months then that’s really depressing, and it makes me wonder what exactly are the devs doing? Maybe I’m mistaken in expecting new content like that because we don’t pay a monthly fee? But WvW really needs some new elements to shake things up and keep it interesting.

Spetrix.3859:

In addition, think of the loss of this experience: taking the orb from the altar and running it back to your garrison, all in the meanwhile trying to defend the enemy from killing your orb carrier and resetting it/ stealing it. It’s one of my favorite moments in WvW when an orb is on the move and it just goes crazy trying to secure it. By removing the orbs of power, we will no longer have this experience available to us. I highly urge Anet to fix the altar problem and put them back in (maybe modified)

I’m copying parts of my posts from other threads because I really do believe ANet is listening to the community and I think the best chance for Orbs to stay in is for us (the community) to request it

I agree Spetrix. Just tonight when you were pushing SH from the south, CD was pushing from the north, and my group was defending DB and CD got into SH first. They stole the orb right as you were running into SH. I called my group to head to N SH to head off CD, you continued to push them from south SH. We met CD at the north SH gate, and stole the orb. In that skirmish the orb had to have changed hands at least 10 times. All the while DB was getting trebbed from Garrison. So we run the orb back to DB with 20 CD on our tails. Manage to place it and we are instantly met with a zerg of CD knocking on our front door.

That was one of the most epic 20 minutes of WvW ever. Moments like that are now gone. I truly hope ArenaNet finds the “fix” to the orbs sooner rather than later. IMO though, if they would have let servers balance out (stop free transfers) and let the Tiers get equal matchups, orbs would no longer become a problem.

People will complain about anything. Orb removal is fine. I bet they rework it an institute a better system in later months. Its a good thing for right now.

I do WvW because I like pvp, not because I want 3 orbs to overpower my opponemnts.

I really want to see just how good these dominating servers are now. My necro in WvW has 33K health and can hit hard with 3x orbs, now we’ll be on an even playing field… or is that what the OP doesn’t like?

I remember weeks ago we held off a keep for 3 days or more from the leading server, we didn’t need orbs to do that and it was a blast.

So you’re saying that removing something that can be hacked to give a team roughly 30% more health, as well as a decent amount more damage and toughness is a BAD thing?

I agree with you on this. Now, I don’t really see any reason to want to play in a BL over EB. Before, BL served its strategic purpose by offering orbs of power. Now, it’s nothing more than a spread-out, less action-packed EB.

Its quite amusing to see how coin flips after constant complaint about orbs….

I agree with the OP, not having orbs is a huge loss for WvW, it’s going to be a whole lot more plainer and boring without them.

I wish they’d keep orbs in WvW until they fix the exploits, hacked orbs are better than zero orbs for everyone. It seems like it will be months, possibly never before they look at this again. In WvW that is way too long and it will kill the fun for a lot of people.

Capturing and defending orbs are a major highlight of WvW Borderlands.

Teknobug.3782:

I do WvW because I like pvp, not because I want 3 orbs to overpower my opponemnts.

I really want to see just how good these dominating servers are now. My necro in WvW has 33K health and can hit hard with 3x orbs, now we’ll be on an even playing field… or is that what the OP doesn’t like?

I remember weeks ago we held off a keep for 3 days or more from the leading server, we didn’t need orbs to do that and it was a blast.

If I was playing for an even playing field, I’d be playing sPvP, not WvW. WvW is not about fairness, it’s about epic scale battles and sieges.

“Without the orbs, Borderlands are just going to be seen as the annoying maps you have to put up with when Eternal Battlegrounds is full.”

I already see them that way with the orbs. I just like the way eb is put together better, I’ve had some fun on borderlands but heavily prefer eb. Sometimes I think all maps should have had a castle in the middle but can somewhat see why the borderlands don’t but I just like eternal because of how it is setup.

well somehow this orb removal feels like having a football match without a footbal, i think the orb should be a other way to score some points in the game something like when you hold it in your corner you get points for it just like as in holding objects..;-)

I’m overjoyed that they finally removed orbs from this game. I hope they stay gone.

Orb removal changed this game tonight. Thank you soooooo much ANet. I’ve been complaining a lot about this game, but after tonight I’m a satisfied customer.

Gizmo.8921:

Its quite amusing to see how coin flips after constant complaint about orbs….

Perhaps its two different groups of people voicing their opinion.

Isaac, i agree the buff was a bit too much. In the official thread I tossed this thought out

After seeing everyone’s thoughts I think a good change would be…
Keep the altar and orb mechanic. Make the altar invulnerable until the inner door goes down (this will prevent hackers after the first door comes down).

Make the orbs give +x supply regeneration to every tower/ keep owned on all 4 borderlands instead of stats or health.

This will keep the orbs as a very powerful objective and maintain the whole fun of chasing orbs/ going after orbs while not empowering the winning side too much. Besides it just potentially prolongs sieges a little bit more as +x supply won’t do much after you drain the supply in a defense.

I don’t care if they return the orbs as long as those ridiculous buffs don’t come with them. If they bring those back, I’ll be gone the next day. Thankfully, they removed the orbs for this reason (as well as the hackers). Our match tonight also changed quite a bit as a result. We wouldn’t beat this tough server anyway, but at least now we aren’t fodder to them.

Removal is the lesser of two evils.
At least something is happening to address the issue.

I expect similar threads when they finally get thieves fixed

It’s so funny.

I’ve said for the past few weeks. I Don’t care about the orbs! Let the other servers fight over them. The advantage or usefullness of them is not high enough for me to bother.

And if I don’t go for it, the other two servers will fight for it.

Now for reset tonight I had thought “Maybe I should fight for an orb this time”.. Guess I was right?

Ya the haxing thing may not be stoppable for a time and orbs just simply give to much as is (nothing like trying to make up vs some one having 3 orbs). If any thing orbs should be more on the lines like a temp. buff to every one in the zone at the time the orb is taken. Something like a 3hr buff but once you zone out or full die you lose it this will give you the ability to push back if your losing a zone badly because now your team is strong but it will keep the game open to losing that zone once the buff is gone or lost most of your team (there has got to be a price to pay when you full wipe vs some one just simply going back to the way point and being delayed 5 mins at worst is nothing and the cost of 10s is nothing too).

The idea is to keep the game from becoming stagnant in a week there is nothing worst then being on a team when you lose big time but for being on a team that is wining big time. Orbs as they are makes the game a 1 day event that must be dealt with for 7 days after the fact. Keeping to point there needs to be something done about hording of supplies in keeps some what of a lost over time if the keep is not attked to keep the game moving.

WvW is not about wining all the time you MUST lose to win or any type of victory is bland and pointless.

Where were all these orb defenders when the threads asking for the removal of the orbs were everywhere? Sigh… Regardless, removing the orbs was the best course of action. Until they are reworked, let ‘em stay gone. Also, I’ve met very few people who actually cared about the orb.

WvW will get its updates in due time, but honestly, there is only so much that can be added to it. New siege will only lead to old ones becoming useless or the new ones never being used. Adding new keeps or structures isn’t exactly possible, not without reworking the entire zone for balance.

As for stagnation, that will take a while to happen. It’s PvP. Fighting other players takes a lot longer to get old than fighting NPCs, so of course PvE will get more attention. Even if March rolls around and not a single WvW update has been issued, it would still be a thriving place. With servers still shifting, and few truly being able to experience even wars, WvW is nowhere near stagnant.

It was never about winning 1 fight, 1 siege, or 1 zone. It’s about consistently winning as much as possible during 24 hours over 7 days, its what separates the losers from the winners.

They should cut the US & EU separate ranking tables and make one global ranking table, that would shake things up quite nicely.

Orbs will make a comeback when the mechanic gets reworked. ANet has the very ungrateful job of making it rewarding enough for winners to bother with, but not too rewarding so losers don’t complain too much.

Xenesis.6389:

I see someone forgot that playing wvw is about the score not the orbs. The orbs were never really in play very much. The orb was only ever in 1 keep, there are 2 other keeps and 4 towers to fight over. There are options other than slamming your face into the orb keep, it’s just whether or not your side has the mobility and coordination to get those other options to work.

I would like to see the orbs returned when they’re somehow made not hackable, and the rewards from them don’t turn the match into a land slide for the winning server.

WvW should be about the orbs and not about the score, like in DAoC.

11 years after the release, relics are still there…

I fail to see how being in EB is an…. ‘issue,’ lol.

And in DAoC, owning all the relics, was at the least, 10 times harder to get than owning the orbs in this game. On top of that, they added significantly less buffs to the people who had them.

A lot of people fail to see the positive aspects the orbs provided, which I mentioned in the other thread.

Yes, the orb buffs were too powerful, and shouldn’t have affected stats. Yes, hacking is an issue, but just because the orbs are gone, doesn’t mean hacking is. Mesmers will continue to teleport into your keeps and open up portals, siege will continue to blow up from players you can’t target.

My biggest concern now that orbs are removed, is that WvW will become a game where the only thing that matters is score. The game is now entirely based on generic score gains in a non-persistant world. It’s just an overgrown sPvP mode right now.

Current situation: Defend holdings? No reason to, nothing of value to protect, let’s just zergball through the maps chain capping holdings to gain the highest potential points income, the server who can do this most hours of the day, wins.

The 15th patch really needs some massive WvW updates to keep things interesting.

Orb removal is a good thing given its current implementation. It is what many of us asked for and thank you to ANet for listening to us.

BL’s are not going to suffer from this at all. You will still need BL’s to win a matchup.

While I agree in theory the Orbs are a great game mechanic to fight over and protect that adds to the flavor of WvW however….

As it stood hacking aside I did not like the fact that they only seemed to benefit the best team or the team that has better coverage and could take it uncontested or least by heavy numbers and then fortify that keep.

Either way it created more of a gap from the best team and worst team in a matchup and thats just not a good thing.

It will be interesting to see how BL’s play out now, but I spent most of my time in BL’s I actually find Eternal to be much more of a stalemate in my experiences with only real prize being SM and most times you aren’t bothering to take it if you dont have it.
Other times you may make a push on someones borders in Eternal but more times then not they are taken back before the 15 min tick is even up unless you end up outnumbering another server by alot and take most of what they got if not all.

Orbs or some other mechanic will need to come back in some form to keep things fresh or least not have a step back in terms of gameplay and tactical play. But they need to offer some other kind of bonuses or limited buff for each additional orb something anyway.

The outmanned buff also needs changing and they should make it into something like orb bonuses with HP and stats or something. We need balanced fights more then anything.

Balidore.2790:

I fail to see how being in EB is an…. ‘issue,’ lol.

And in DAoC, owning all the relics, was at the least, 10 times harder to get than owning the orbs in this game. On top of that, they added significantly less buffs to the people who had them.

And on top of this – even with nightcapping and PvDoor players – they were still harder to take then the ones here.

Slamz.5376:

I predict that Eternal Battlegrounds will be absolutely slammed now.

Eternal always was more popular with the masses and I think it’s because it has a good pace to it. It never really stalemates. There’s always a good attack or defense going on.

The borderlands maps are more spread out, with more cliffs and winding paths and longer supply routes. Sieges tend to be longer, more expensive, more brutal affairs. There are fewer forts so there are fewer options. If one attack isn’t working out, there may not be much real choice on where else to hit.

The main reason the Borderlands got what action they did is because of the Orbs. Big-name guilds usually went straight there and fought for orbs. “Eternal Battlegrounds is for noobs” was the catchphrase. People tolerated the slower pace and fewer options of borderlands because it was so critical to capture and hold the orbs.

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Without the orbs, Borderlands are just going to be seen as the annoying maps you have to put up with when Eternal Battlegrounds is full.

I hope Arenanet is aware that Borderland maps aren’t as popular even WITH the orbs and now without them, I think player disgruntlement with WvW’s lack of maps will accelerate.

Borderlands are worth 145 (if I did my math right) points for the whole map. Go ahead and ignore them, please tell all you guildmates and server population your wonderful idea. Hopefully you are on an opposing server for me soon.

Quite frankly anyone who want’s an unbalanced game go pick another MMO, ArenaNet have finally seen sense and are living up to their hype of how balanced this MMO is.
If you need external boost for your game play learn you use food and potions not a server wide mega boost, or don’t you have the skill to do that.
ArenaNet superb job in acting on players input and i salute you o7

It’s not about balanced or imbalanced. It’s about incentives and strategy. Perfectly balanced PvP is in sPvP. WvW is strategic tactical warfare and orbs added a huge element of strategy. There is a general consensus that the buffs were too much and that those should be tweaked but the removal of orbs from the WvW BLs eliminates some of the best moments in WvW.

I agree. The fights in borderlands were actually so much more fun and organised. Would have been better to just change the effect the orb has. Either decrease it’s effectiveness or increase potential points by a percentage instead.

But we will see, maybe they will change other things aswell.

In my opinion WvW will benefit from the loss of Orbs:
- Orbs gave to the dominating side, a extra boost of all stats, increasing the difficulty of evening the odds.
- Orbs were very easy to be hack-stolen.

Will borderlands loose with it? No
The very reason is because of the total overall points!
The majority will want to capture important points. Stonemist is the top at EB, and the Garrisons the top at the borderlands. It’s a matter of pride.

But i also think that some adjustments are needed in the WvW. That ridiculous “outmanned” buff is a case of that. Why do i need more boost in MF, Exp and karma? How’s that will keep me playing WvW when some other side is dominating? I’m gonna loose anyway, so why to compete? That’s the reason why so many are quitting atm. Absolutely no tools to fight back! If only “outmanned” gave some advantages… (like +5 Supllies for creating defenses without “a lot” of people), than it could be a lot better.

But hey, keep the good work!

Rubbish,

I doubt anything will really change. Most people never really grasped the whole Orbs concept anyway.

Dee Jay, I’ll quote from earlier to demonstrate why this change bothers me

In addition, think of the loss of this experience: taking the orb from the altar and running it back to your garrison, all in the meanwhile trying to defend the enemy from killing your orb carrier and resetting it/ stealing it. It’s one of my favorite moments in WvW when an orb is on the move and it just goes crazy trying to secure it. By removing the orbs of power, we will no longer have this experience available to us. I highly urge Anet to fix the altar problem and put them back in (maybe modified)

Spetrix.3859:

Dee Jay, I’ll quote from earlier to demonstrate why this change bothers me

In addition, think of the loss of this experience: taking the orb from the altar and running it back to your garrison, all in the meanwhile trying to defend the enemy from killing your orb carrier and resetting it/ stealing it. It’s one of my favorite moments in WvW when an orb is on the move and it just goes crazy trying to secure it. By removing the orbs of power, we will no longer have this experience available to us. I highly urge Anet to fix the altar problem and put them back in (maybe modified)

And then a hacker “harry potters” it away! Very fun indeed!