It isn’t even about whether they are counterable. It’s just not a fun mechanic to play against, even if you know their skills up and down and regularly defeat stealth characters.
Past MMO’s and GW2 figured out that long CC is not fun for players, because no one likes not having control of their character for long portions of a fight. As such GW2 doesn’t have CC remotely as punishing as some other games. Unfortunately fighting half a battle against something you can’t see is equally as frustrating as long CC and not very fun. Gee, I’ll swing at the air over here until this guy pops up visible again…
So you would prefer permanent thief keeps on CC you while he is in stealth?
Any stealth class in any MMO is the most annoying class to deal with because the human nature is afraid of what we can’t see!
It isn’t even about whether they are counterable. It’s just not a fun mechanic to play against, even if you know their skills up and down and regularly defeat stealth characters.
Past MMO’s and GW2 figured out that long CC is not fun for players, because no one likes not having control of their character for long portions of a fight. As such GW2 doesn’t have CC remotely as punishing as some other games. Unfortunately fighting half a battle against something you can’t see is equally as frustrating as long CC and not very fun. Gee, I’ll swing at the air over here until this guy pops up visible again…
Funny that the CC you talk about is also the direct counter to d/d glass cannon thief. One well timed imobilise and he is toast.
Long CC’s are annoying because you cannot act and do anything at all. A stealthed thief doesn’t prevent you from acting unless you behave like a NPC.
A melee thief can stealth again and again thanks to C&D. Let me repeat that : a melee thief. With dagger offhand.
A ranged thief can only stealth depending on his remaining utilities. All are on a rather long CD.
If you fight a thief that stealths again and again, it means it’s a -/D thief. It means he needs to come into melee range to stealth again. If it’s a D/D thief, he’ll want to backstab you which means melee range too.
Here, you just found a way to predict where the thief will go soon : he’ll come right into your arms very soon. All you need is learn the timing and counter attack when he’s the most vulnerable.
Every MMO that has ever implemented stealth has found these classes become overpowered… yet more MMO companies ended up using the same mechanic over and over again, I don’t understand the logic.
If you are a future game designer please never implement such a poor mechanic into any game were you want serious pvp.
Good lord man looking at your post history you complain so much about thieves! Its especially strange since your sig says D/D Ele, which is probably the closest thing to a hard counter to a thief. You have two or three times the tools to deal with thieves than any other profession. Why dont you stop whining about them and go play one to learn its weaknesses?
Papa Cooldown – Mesmer
[BLNT] Better Luck Next Time
Tarnished Coast
Wait, wait, wait. You’re saying that if I’m blinded, the enemy blocks or the enemy dodges my phantasam won’t spawn and it goes on cool down. Yet if I dodge/blind/evade a thief attack the thief doesn’t lose initiative.
How the hell is that balanced?
“Failure to remain calm is the sign of a weak mind.”
Wait, wait, wait. You’re saying that if I’m blinded, the enemy blocks or the enemy dodges my phantasam won’t spawn and it goes on cool down. Yet if I dodge/blind/evade a thief attack the thief doesn’t lose initiative.
So you would prefer permanent thief keeps on CC you while he is in stealth?
Neither. Assuming the thief profession won’t get totally remade now, I would just reduce their stealth dependency by about 50% and make them more durable while visible.
It should be something you use very situationally and tactically, not on/off for half or more of a fight. Maybe use it to run between an open visible area to scout somewhere. Use it in battle when your are in trouble, or to wipe some conditions, or set up a big killer move that could turn a fight. But not in and out ten or twenty times, dragging a battle out forever. That is just silly.
Other bunker builds carried over from the sPVP meta into WvW are similarly disrupting. Combat should be fast and decisive not some kind of chasing the road runner cartoon.
Wait, wait, wait. You’re saying that if I’m blinded, the enemy blocks or the enemy dodges my phantasam won’t spawn and it goes on cool down. Yet if I dodge/blind/evade a thief attack the thief doesn’t lose initiative.
How the hell is that balanced?
We do lose it.
I certainly hope so. I was responding to something on the first page. If you didn’t lose the initiative it would be broken as hell.
“Failure to remain calm is the sign of a weak mind.”
If thief uses an ini ability (cnd), it uses the ini on button press, not connect. 1 base ini. A lot trait for extra in trickery. Regardless, only 1 slot skills, and utilities/steal use no ini.
I think they should stop implementing mage style classes as well. Every MMO that has ever implemented mage classes has found these classes to become over powered…. yet more MMO companies ended up using the same mechanic over and over again, I don’t understand the logic.
If you are a future game designer please never implement such a poor mechanic into any game where you want serious pvp.
Good lord man looking at your post history you complain so much about thieves! Its especially strange since your sig says D/D Ele, which is probably the closest thing to a hard counter to a thief. You have two or three times the tools to deal with thieves than any other profession. Why dont you stop whining about them and go play one to learn its weaknesses?
^this. Bunzy is the king of the criers on these forums, and the majority of his ire is directed at thieves which is freaking laughable cause he plays the class most capable of completely shutting down and nullifying a thief. I tend to have no trouble whatsoever with them on my D/D ele, not sure why Bunzy hasn’t figured it out just yet…
Nerfedname – Elementalist
Legion of Anvil Rock [XXIV] – Anvil Rock
The Mesmer’s stealth on the the other hand is done correctly
and this is why there is so much QQ about stealthers in MMOs. everyone things their class is balanced(or even under powered) and all other classes are over powered.
combine this with the fact that stealthers are usually the least played class, and that makes everyone have some hate for thieves/rogues/etc
The Mesmer’s stealth on the the other hand is done correctly
and this is why there is so much QQ about stealthers in MMOs. everyone things their class is balanced(or even under powered) and all other classes are over powered.
combine this with the fact that stealthers are usually the least played class, and that makes everyone have some hate for thieves/rogues/etc
Nice try but I’m an ele. I’m speaking specifically from a design perspective. The Mesmer is simply more interesting to fight against than thief stealth because of how Mesmer’s version of stealth interacts with their set of skills. The Thief’s stealth is a spammy cheese tactic by comparison.
Wait, wait, wait. You’re saying that if I’m blinded, the enemy blocks or the enemy dodges my phantasam won’t spawn and it goes on cool down. Yet if I dodge/blind/evade a thief attack the thief doesn’t lose initiative.
How the hell is that balanced?
If they attack in stealth and don’t hit you though, it doesn’t break stealth. So if they miss their backstab, they can instantly try again with no cost of iniative and no breaking of stealth.
Cloak and dagger can be used again if you have initiative, so if they miss one attack, they can instantly use it again. This wouldn’t be a problem if the thief needed initiative for other attacks but both p/d and d/d mostly just use initiative for C&D, the rest comes from auto attack, steal and attack from stealth.
I think they should stop implementing mage style classes as well. Every MMO that has ever implemented mage classes has found these classes to become over powered…. yet more MMO companies ended up using the same mechanic over and over again, I don’t understand the logic.
If you are a future game designer please never implement such a poor mechanic into any game where you want serious pvp.
and this is why there is so much QQ about stealthers in MMOs. everyone things their class is balanced(or even under powered) and all other classes are over powered.
and this is why there is so much QQ about stealthers in MMOs. everyone things their class is balanced(or even under powered) and all other classes are over powered.
Dear devs.
Nerf rock. Paper is good like it is.
Your’s truly,
Scissors
Happens in every game.
Not sure what’s more insulting. The fact that you misquoted or the fact that you ignored the entire context of the discussion.
and this is why there is so much QQ about stealthers in MMOs. everyone things their class is balanced(or even under powered) and all other classes are over powered.
Dear devs.
Nerf rock. Paper is good like it is.
Your’s truly,
Scissors
Happens in every game.
If it was the case, we would see a nerf post for each class.
Weird that it’s always the thief? Also weird that is also the only class you can play with 4 keybind.
Rotthen (Necro) / Zhyx (Engineer) /Inglorious Beasterd (Ranger)
Server : Anvil Rock (Since Release!) [SOLO]
and this is why there is so much QQ about stealthers in MMOs. everyone things their class is balanced(or even under powered) and all other classes are over powered.
Wait, wait, wait. You’re saying that if I’m blinded, the enemy blocks or the enemy dodges my phantasam won’t spawn and it goes on cool down. Yet if I dodge/blind/evade a thief attack the thief doesn’t lose initiative.
How the hell is that balanced?
If they attack in stealth and don’t hit you though, it doesn’t break stealth. So if they miss their backstab, they can instantly try again with no cost of iniative and no breaking of stealth.
Cloak and dagger can be used again if you have initiative, so if they miss one attack, they can instantly use it again. This wouldn’t be a problem if the thief needed initiative for other attacks but both p/d and d/d mostly just use initiative for C&D, the rest comes from auto attack, steal and attack from stealth.
D/D uses more then just c&d and auto attack. Death blossom for evadeing, dancing dagger for the slow on runners an heart seeker when target is below 25%. If anything I find c&d to be the least reliable attack we have.
the reason why stealthy class in this game is overpowered is because their movement speed is not reduced by much when in stealth mode. stealth means to sneak, and to sneak means to move very slowly. in LOTRO when someone goes invisible their movement speed is reduced by 66%, however they can have a trait that have the reduction in speed up to 33% only i think.
ANET should implement this reduction in movement speed when in stealth mode as well….
Cutie Phantasmer/Farinas [HAX] – CD Casual
Archeage = Farmville with PK
Yet another Q.Q post from those who don’t do their research on thieves… Just learn to AoE, dodge, and done deal. We arn’t invulnerable during stealth… <.<
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
The only problem I see with stealth is the amount of tears it brings to the forums from noobs that prefer to nerf things instead of learning how to counter.
Yet another Q.Q post from those who don’t do their research on thieves… Just learn to AoE, dodge, and done deal. We arn’t invulnerable during stealth… <.<
Because Thiefs automatically places themselves in your AoE circles or close to you when they are stealthed.
Yet another Q.Q post from those who don’t do their research on thieves… Just learn to AoE, dodge, and done deal. We arn’t invulnerable during stealth… <.<
Because Thiefs automatically places themselves in your AoE circles or close to you when they are stealthed.
The bigger the attack area, the more likely you are to hit something. And if they’re going to attack you, they’re going to get close to you.
Not all attacks land when your opponent is visible, so of course you may miss when the target is in visible. If you want save your skills for more sure shots, then at least have the common sense to react when you lose track of a thief. Drop your guard and it’s your fault the thief got the jump on you.
Dodging CnD isn’t that hard and it’s obvious. I have no trouble denying an enemy P/D user such as myself stealth ability because I know how to dodge CnD. It takes a thief to know how to beat a thief. Play the class, get familiar with it, then you’ll stand a bigger chance.
I think GW2 handles stealth better than any other MMO game I have played.
However…
4secs of invisibility in the hands of a good player, can mean a death sentence for you if you can’t predict what they are trying to do. Also stealth time can be added to, so you don’t really know how long they will be cloaked for.
The biggest mistake most games make with stealth is that it is always 100% invisibility (drops your target) and can be used mid-fight. Stealth should only be used for getting an opening assault off by surprise.
Once a fight has started, going invisible and teleporting around isn’t what thieves do. It’s what mages should be doing. I don’t know who started this “ideal” for a thief/rogue but every game mindlessly copies it on.
In WvW stealth should add another strategy to an assault teams arsenal. Instead what stealth has given us are 1-shot Thief Gankers looking for low-health kills to steal. Or duelists looking for lonely noobs to pick on.
So I think “Why Stealth?” is a good question.. Why indeed?
Yet another Q.Q post from those who don’t do their research on thieves… Just learn to AoE, dodge, and done deal. We arn’t invulnerable during stealth… <.<
Because Thiefs automatically places themselves in your AoE circles or close to you when they are stealthed.
The bigger the attack area, the more likely you are to hit something. And if they’re going to attack you, they’re going to get close to you.
Not all attacks land when your opponent is visible, so of course you may miss when the target is in visible. If you want save your skills for more sure shots, then at least have the common sense to react when you lose track of a thief. Drop your guard and it’s your fault the thief got the jump on you.
I don’t have problems with Thiefs since I play a Guardian, I can’t kill them, and they can’t kill me.
And of course my hits not always hit when they are visible, but I at least know if they connect or not and it’s easier to decide if you should make an attack or not because you know where he is.
Pssst. Those who can’t fight heavy stealth builds, here’s a bit of advice. It’s from pistol/dagger condition builds.
a) Run condition removal
b) Dodge
How do you think the thief keeps stealthing? Certainly not through repeated utility bar skills because there aren’t enough of them. Yup, you got it. Cloak and dagger. A kissing range ability, which they have to be out of stealth to use else it just reveals them.
Ta da, one dodge roll, nearly half initiative wasted on a missed ability. Thank me later.
Pssst. Those who can’t fight heavy stealth builds, here’s a bit of advice. It’s from pistol/dagger condition builds.
a) Run condition removal
b) Dodge
How do you think the thief keeps stealthing? Certainly not through repeated utility bar skills because there aren’t enough of them. Yup, you got it. Cloak and dagger. A kissing range ability, which they have to be out of stealth to use else it just reveals them.
Ta da, one dodge roll, nearly half initiative wasted on a missed ability. Thank me later.
Less you are a Ranger and they C&D your pet or C&D anything else that happens to be around.
Pssst. Those who can’t fight heavy stealth builds, here’s a bit of advice. It’s from pistol/dagger condition builds.
a) Run condition removal
b) Dodge
How do you think the thief keeps stealthing? Certainly not through repeated utility bar skills because there aren’t enough of them. Yup, you got it. Cloak and dagger. A kissing range ability, which they have to be out of stealth to use else it just reveals them.
Ta da, one dodge roll, nearly half initiative wasted on a missed ability. Thank me later.
Less you are a Ranger and they C&D your pet or C&D anything else that happens to be around.
I guess we will have to thank you later……
Spike trap under your feet, call your pet to you.
Thank me now.
This thread is mainly just Rangers, aka the class with the most issues, complaining about thieves. These same rangers are the ones using SB and LB builds (which are terrible in any 1v1 situation).
In other words: “Scissors are fine, nerf paper.” – Rock
I would trade my stealth in for Burning, Confusion, Retaliation, Protection, Stability on my weapon bars any day of the week. I love it when Elementalists complain about Thieves. If only you could buy a clue in the gem store.
The Painted Norn of [WILD]We Intercept Lost Dolyaks
I would trade my stealth in for Burning, Confusion, Retaliation, Protection, Stability on my weapon bars any day of the week. I love it when Elementalists complain about Thieves. If only you could buy a clue in the gem store.
IMO, D/D tank elementalists more or less are just as good as thieves. I also know of a guardian who can kick any thief’s kitten (I tried, could not get her under 80% HP, full P/D build Wild Bill style).
I would trade my stealth in for Burning, Confusion, Retaliation, Protection, Stability on my weapon bars any day of the week. I love it when Elementalists complain about Thieves. If only you could buy a clue in the gem store.
IMO, D/D tank elementalists more or less are just as good as thieves. I also know of a guardian who can kick any thief’s kitten (I tried, could not get her under 80% HP, full P/D build Wild Bill style).
I agree man. There’s also some very crafty engineers on IoJ and SoS that can burst a thief down in seconds and escape with elixir S. I love fighting thieves on my guardian, doesn’t matter whether they are GC backstab or condition.
The Painted Norn of [WILD]We Intercept Lost Dolyaks
I don’t really have an issue with stealth as a warrior. Thieves are squishy and the easiest class to kill. I can’t remember the last time one killed me other than maybe if I was on auto run looking at the map.
Mesmers don’t have stealth enough for it to really matter.
I think that as the skill level of players increase, they will find that the stealth classes are not that strong.
On my necro always comes down to them jumping me, then I proceed to kitten their face in and they ran far far away so they never seen me again…..gets old for me.
