Guild Wars 2

in before ppl say wvw is not about loot….too late

ppl have to accept the fact that loots is another factor to motivate people
by having ppl doing for loots at the start, u will gain a sizeable number, when ppl starts to hate dying to ppl who are well-geared, they will start to gear up themselves

there is no such thing as one single solution…

u use one thing to solve another and what was solved may ended up solving other things

No, loot is not the only thing.

I have skipped WvW many times in the past simply because of match ups. What’s the point if there is good loot if I can’t even get any of it because everything is being zerged 24/7…

The longest I had to go without WvW was 2 months. 2 months of crap match ups and if I had switched servers then the promised loot would be nowhere near good enough to make up for it.

If you gain loot after kills and not ktraining ther wont be any problem. High risk high reward.
Wvw players need a lot of money for equickments. Wvw runes are 6-10 golds mostly sigilsare 5 golds or more. The pve meta is the same. Zerk and max dmg sigs/runes. In wvw nearly every guild ask for something different and if the meta changes you can salvage your items. Wait… You cant salvage them.
Food and oils/stones are money. A lot of money. And you make max 5-10 golds a night if you are lucky (+200% mf)

There are many reasons why WvW fails to attract players. It’s because WvW and the entire concept behind it is stupid.

24/7 constant PvP War sounds great in theory, but in reality, in order for quite a bit of these servers to be successful at WvW, you need a night crew. People to play during off hours. In the lower tiers, you just don’t have that all too consistently. Not only that, but the choices of how you play GW2 are just too split up. You have PvE, SPvP, EOTM, and WvW, but thanks to the megaserver update, a server’s identity is completely lost except for in WvW and guild communities.

Not only that, but WvW in the lower tiers is little more than a boring game of hopscotch. You took SMC? Okay. Enemy will take it right back because you don’t really have the numbers willing to stick around after and scout/defend, especially if there is no incentive to do so. If one out of the 3 servers have a decently-sized night crew then they’ll take most of the entirety of WvW and get a 500-600+ PPT at the end of the night.

In Guild Wars 1, you had a choice on character selection. You could make a PvE character, that could do PvP, but you had to start from level 1 and progress in the story. Or you could make a PvP character that started at max level, but you couldn’t go into any PvE areas with it. Because of this split at character selection, you had consistent dedicated PvPers. Instead ANet has put the focus towards casual gameplay over all else. You can’t really blame the players for going where the money, fun, and activities are. Casual players do not care one lick about Tiers, about PPT, their server’s place in ranking, or about WvW. Most casual players will go into WvW, wonder around, get killed by an enemy k-train, and then leave. There is just nothing worthwhile for the casual player there compared to every other game mode. Quite the opposite since WvW is more of a goldsink that requires some amount of sacrifice.

What ends up winning WvW isn’t some grand strategy, buffs, or high coordination. It’s coverage. People to be playing in WvW constantly in order to defend their structures, order upgrades, and attack enemy territory. If WvW isn’t incentive in some better way, you just don’t have coverage from anyone other than the people who care about WvW. Get more people to care.

The only game that has successfully done constant 24/7 PvP war, is Planetside 2, but in that game, you’re fighting against factions on the same server and not other servers.

And there are no rewards, except badges. Nothing else. You could win or come in dead last every week, and you can still get the same number of badges. There are no rewards for winning a week. Nothing. So, why do it? I WvWd, now I don’t.

Meh. WvW is about beating people at their own game. I’ve played it since release, use the TP to profit from the PvE and WvW folks alike, and have little problem funding server transfers and gear for one of every class.

PvP-minded WvW players are wringing it dry of every scrap of fun it can give, and we have our own social community. I suspect that most people that want to complain as in this thread wouldn’t like the people (and wouldn’t be liked by the people) who are happy to compete for game wins without much reward.

You want something different from what WvW is.

Virtute.8251:

You want something different from what WvW is.

That’s because what WvW is, isn’t good. At least not for servers in the lower tiers. The fact that you even need to mention funding transfers is very telling of this.

Baldrick.8967:

It’s very simple- loot.

EoTm gives more badges, more loot, more karma by just following a train.

Silverwastes chests and events give so much loot it’s not even funny.

An hour in wvw and unless you play a spam 1 tag everything class you might see half a dozen bits of loot, compared to opening 20-30 chests, 30 events, 40 loot bags containing up to t6 mats, etc if you wonder around in Silverwastes.

I’m sure a lot more players would try wvw if it had more loot, even if they have totally failed to update it in two years.

Maybe ‘season 3’ should be a revision and new maps to wvw, with piles of achievement points available (won’t happen, but we can dream).

As it is there is almost no reason to carry on logging in to wvw apart from the occasional even fight, and it’s very clear that is the conclusion reached by the majority of players.

From all things the WvW needs, loot is none of it.

We need new maps, bigger maps and more ways to escape a megablob for 5-man groups. And jes, the last tier of servers should be merged.

Kontrolle.3514:

Baldrick.8967:

It’s very simple- loot.

EoTm gives more badges, more loot, more karma by just following a train.

Silverwastes chests and events give so much loot it’s not even funny.

An hour in wvw and unless you play a spam 1 tag everything class you might see half a dozen bits of loot, compared to opening 20-30 chests, 30 events, 40 loot bags containing up to t6 mats, etc if you wonder around in Silverwastes.

I’m sure a lot more players would try wvw if it had more loot, even if they have totally failed to update it in two years.

Maybe ‘season 3’ should be a revision and new maps to wvw, with piles of achievement points available (won’t happen, but we can dream).

As it is there is almost no reason to carry on logging in to wvw apart from the occasional even fight, and it’s very clear that is the conclusion reached by the majority of players.

From all things the WvW needs, loot is none of it.

We need new maps, bigger maps and more ways to escape a megablob for 5-man groups. And jes, the last tier of servers should be merged.

The loot is how you get new players in. Everything you mentioned is how you retain the players that come.

I want to see the Silverwastes reward system implemented into WvW.

Make upgrading objectives the same as in Silverwastes, where a group of players have to collect x amount of widgets to upgrade walls and etc, outside the keep.

Make more “events” that reward players for doing them.

Theres alot they could do, but either way they go, whether its a fun improvement or not, its gonna cause rage in the forums.

I like WvW. I have server pride though, so meh. To each their own i guess.

killahmayne.9518:

I disagree with most people in this thread. The whole point of WvW isn’t to get the biggest baddest and the most loot drops. Essentially if loot drops become more plentiful and what not WvW pretty much turns into the next EoTM with 50 man karma trains running around, avoiding fights and capping empty towers.

People SHOULD do WvW for the fighting experience, capping and defending objectives and these things should be fun. If they were fun, people wouldn’t be complaining about oh WvW isn’t as monetarily (if that is a word) rewarding as PvE or EoTM. Newsflash fellas, it ISN’T supposed to be and to think that it should be I think is just moronic in general.

The incentive should be placed on things that would make WvW fresh, exciting and fun first and foremost. Secondly, come up with very unique rewards and achievements based on that.

Maybe things like an underwater tower. Mini WvW areas within a borderland where only a max of 15 people can enter and if you control the area it adds a good chunk to your PPT. Scale rewards down based on the number of people capping an objective, the lesser people it takes to take an objective the greater the rewards. Give more incentive to smaller groups. Party and guild based achievements. Bounties like (kill a certain person in WvW). Discourage fight avoidance and the mindless we got more numbers than you do mentality. Resolve population and server imbalances, shift PPT more towards killing people rather than objectives. Create more objectives, can make them party based as well too. Perhaps increased rewards for a group killing a larger group of people if you can find a way to code that.

Pretty much this. Increasing loot drops in WvW will only cause it to be another train filled with “farmers” who don’t want to contribute in any meaningful way. However, adding more unique rewards/achievements I think could go a long way for player retention and bringing in fresh blood.

I also think that adding in world bonuses for PvE based on winning might help bring in more people. Maybe something like: I play WvW for say maybe 5 hours a week. And during that time I’ve upgrade/built some seige, capped and defended points, and killed some players. So when my server wins that week, I get a bonus WvW buff for PvE and WvW. Say, +% MF based on how many points I’ve capped, +% Gold for how many points I’ve defended and +% Karma for how many players I’ve killed, etc. (Or something), for X amount of hours (say double what I’ve played)

So now there is an incentive for new players to jump into WvW and actually try to do something. You don’t get those bonuses if you lose. Sure there might be a zerg train, but that train can easily be derailed if its just people riding it. And just riding a train doesn’t mean your server is going to win that week either.

Just some thoughts…

“Increasing loot drops in WvW will only cause it to be another train filled with “farmers” who don’t want to contribute in any meaningful way”

So adding loot would add more players…wait, is this a ‘trick’ question? I’m confused.

If more players, than more loot. More things happening. More flipping of objectives. More gameplay. Who cares if they are loot-hungry-lunatics? I don’t.

why are rewards for killing so important to so many MMO players? isn’t winning enough of a reward?
i mean to me the biggest reward to WvW is that you get to do almost everything PvE and sPvP offer all in one area.

that being said, i do agree that home servers should have # of accounts/players capped. and to spread players out more i would say that all servers should have the same cap until the population becomes balanced on all of them.

slamfunction.7462:

“Increasing loot drops in WvW will only cause it to be another train filled with “farmers” who don’t want to contribute in any meaningful way”

So adding loot would add more players…wait, is this a ‘trick’ question? I’m confused.

If more players, than more loot. More things happening. More flipping of objectives. More gameplay. Who cares if they are loot-hungry-lunatics? I don’t.

It’s not about just putting butts in seats so to speak. It’s about filling the WvW population with people who want to actually play WvW. Adding in an increase drop rate for loot WILL turn it into Edge of the Mists. Go try to flip an objective out of order there and see what happens. Or try to engage in a PvP battle, the zerg with either move on and ignore you, or rage, report, and whine about it. Adding more loot, to make it on the level of PvE, will certainly invite these types of players in. Yeah stuff will get flipped, but god forbid it gets flipped out of order by a roaming group. There will be no reason to defend, or upgrade stuff if it’s only get to get flipped as soon as RI is done. Why take and use supply, or build seige? most obectives will just PvD if the zerg is large enough. Making loot on the same level of PvE will turn all the borderlands into another EotM. People whining and raging and fixing matches just so the can get their karma/loot/gold the easiest and fastest way possible.

Edit: Also as a side note, WvW has some of the best places in the game for T6 mat drops.

oneply.9586:

why are rewards for killing so important to so many MMO players? isn’t winning enough of a reward?
i mean to me the biggest reward to WvW is that you get to do almost everything PvE and sPvP offer all in one area.

that being said, i do agree that home servers should have # of accounts/players capped. and to spread players out more i would say that all servers should have the same cap until the population becomes balanced on all of them.

becoz…..coming from long history of mmorpg, i can say that..
in many hardcore mmorpg u need to farm to get great items and pking ppl becoz doing so give u something to get great items
rewards and more rewards becoz the players wan to be great

however, gw2 wants to be different and give everyone easy way out and here u have a casual populations becoz gw2 is so easy, anybody can juz survive the grinding and farming and reach the top with all the wonderful gears, now everyone thinks they are great because of the wonderful gears

rewards has always been the no.1 driving force for mmorpg

oneply.9586:

why are rewards for killing so important to so many MMO players? isn’t winning enough of a reward?
i mean to me the biggest reward to WvW is that you get to do almost everything PvE and sPvP offer all in one area.

that being said, i do agree that home servers should have # of accounts/players capped. and to spread players out more i would say that all servers should have the same cap until the population becomes balanced on all of them.

Because there needs to be a point to the madness. There needs to be a goal to work toward. Simply winning is all we’ve done for the past 2.5 years in WvW and we’ve been losing players all this time.

Rewards bring fresh new players in. It ensures they continue to come in. These fresh new players may suck at first, but as time goes on they get better. Soon they realize their accomplishments matter. Soon they realize that for them to maximize their reward, they must maximize their efforts.

As it stands now the only people who bother with WvW anymore are likely the same people who are playing GW2 simply because there’s nothing better available. As better things become available how do you expect to attract new players and keep them when you have them do the same thing for 2.5 years for no reason whatsoever?

I don’t think it’s so much loot, I think some people.. actually most people, have absolutely no interest in PvP. Hence why EoTM has a better turnout because it literally is just another PvE map champ/karma train.

I suspect that even if Anet quadrupled all the rewards in WvW, we still wouldn’t see any PvE players venturing in.

DeadlySynz.3471:

I suspect that even if Anet quadrupled all the rewards in WvW, we still wouldn’t see any PvE players venturing in.

I think ANet has already quadrupled the rewards in WvW since release. Between rank up chests and increased loot drops from players, you can get a ton of money by playing WvW for PvP. At one point, I was making close to 20g a night just from selling heavy loot bags on the TP. Even if you’re on a low tier server, WvW champ bags are really easy to get if you have a small group running. I really don’t think it’s the rewards that are lacking.

PvE is pure profit, I can play in the Silverwastes for hours and get yellows on yellows, silver after silver from events and defends and escorts I only saw on the minimap. I play and play and play and at the end of the day, I am 30-40g richer.

WvW is not pure profit. I wipe a zerg for 8 bags and some XP, I walk to the keep and start a waypoint upgrade. I am at -75 silver. I play and play and play and play and at the end of the day, if it is A: a busy day for my server, I make a modest profit (see: less than SW, more than general PvE, leaps above PvP). If it is B: a normal day for my server (see: some wipes, some fights, some upgrades, some downtime), I might break even. If it is C: a bad day for my server (see: enemy guild zerg is crushing home borderland, enemy general zerg is outnumbering eternal, defenders in the enemy borderland wipe my camp runs), I make nothing or I lose money.

I don’t understand why there is opposition to loot balancing. You don’t get paid ANYWHERE near enough for the time you invest in your game mode vs. a player running dungeons or farming SW for the same portion of time. You don’t have the sPvP player excuse where if you bring in rewards, the mode is gonna be polluted by afking newbies.

Stop debating this garbage and demand the loot you should be getting. That the overflow mode pays 3-5x what you get in actual WvW should be evidence enough. And I don’t mean in the k-train, I mean on a per-flip basis for equal objectives. Objectives which, in real WvW, are DEFENDED.

It costs quite a bit to have top quality players. Anyone who has a full ascended player knows that. Takes a lot of time and time.

Atherakhia.4086:

Kontrolle.3514:

Baldrick.8967:

It’s very simple- loot.

EoTm gives more badges, more loot, more karma by just following a train.

Silverwastes chests and events give so much loot it’s not even funny.

An hour in wvw and unless you play a spam 1 tag everything class you might see half a dozen bits of loot, compared to opening 20-30 chests, 30 events, 40 loot bags containing up to t6 mats, etc if you wonder around in Silverwastes.

I’m sure a lot more players would try wvw if it had more loot, even if they have totally failed to update it in two years.

Maybe ‘season 3’ should be a revision and new maps to wvw, with piles of achievement points available (won’t happen, but we can dream).

As it is there is almost no reason to carry on logging in to wvw apart from the occasional even fight, and it’s very clear that is the conclusion reached by the majority of players.

From all things the WvW needs, loot is none of it.

We need new maps, bigger maps and more ways to escape a megablob for 5-man groups. And jes, the last tier of servers should be merged.

The loot is how you get new players in. Everything you mentioned is how you retain the players that come.

And this! is the main problem of WvW!
Its you guys, the generation “login-reward”, running from farmevent to farm event with your blob, never trying something else because you could miss your champbag, karma, loot, money, xp whatever.

You run behind a tag and if no tag is there, you usually flame, whine and troll about it.
In the first weeks we laughed about the community and the design of GW2, we called it “together alone” everyone for himself, because everything has to be solobale these days.

i might sound like a grumpy old man but back then, in DAoC we got just nothing for playing RvR, it has even very high costs, forcing communities to organize together.
Jes, later you got some ranks with uber abillitys but to reach those you relied on teamplay.

Jes there are organized guilds here but lets be honest? What happens if your couple of “brain-commander-tags” leaves or is offline? Nothing.

I would love to see a server with alternate ruleset, no ascended, no loot, just pure fighting. Awesome fights and fun at playing is reward enough for me.

in a couple of jears i forgot how much wealth and stuff i had, but not this one fight, were we stomped 2vs8 in a fight for about 30 minutes, were we killed them over and over until they logged off^^

I think what I’m seeing here Is people feel theirs no personal benefit to playing WvW because they’ve missed one of the basic points.Having a high score in WvW has an effect to your whole sever which includes crafting,gathering,gold drop.exp,heath,ect.
and really when it comes to fighting blobs its best to fight a blob with a blob.If you want changes to your WvW server you and everyone playing needs to get involved and play.

While I agree that wvw should not be about loot, the loot inequality is very unfair for wvw focused players who are constantly getting the short end of the stick update after update. The loot disparity has never really been adressed. The bag frenzy in wvw leads many to simply look for fights. To much of a for fights attitude in a server will kill that server see maguuma, sor etc. So while I do adhere to the play for fun not to farm concept, I also believe that the loot disparity is unfair to wvw focused players.

quote:
in a couple of jears i forgot how much wealth and stuff i had, but not this one fight, were we stomped 2vs8 in a fight for about 30 minutes, were we killed them over and over until they logged off /quote

I read this as ‘we met 8 unskilled players and repeatedly killed them, and I consider this my highlight’ as saying much about you.

My personal highlight was on my Gandara account before they brought in wexp and our guild (all 5 of us) decided to hold the spawn tower against all comers all day and all night, back when Gandara had no night crew and was in a much lower tier. Complete rubbish as rewards but a great time defending.

Kontrolle.3514, I run havoc or solo roam until rally times where we run privately as a guild with 15 people on average and 30 people on reset nights. I don’t map queue. And still I have the same opinion… there’s simply no point behind WvW.

Deny it all you want, but you’re in the minority. Look at PvP, why do you think they have reward tracks now? Shouldn’t the act of PvPing be enough for the community? Should that community be happy with the 5% of the playerbase that plays it? Or do you think they’re happier with the much larger % that play it now due to the rewards?

The exact same thing has happened in WvW that was wrong with PvP. There was no point to do it other than boredom because there’s simply nothing else better to do. This is why the community has shrunk and continues to die off with each passing day. There’s nothing bringing new players in and there remains no reason to do WvW.

So as to your actual point… WvW needs new maps, new rulesets, and new life breathed into it. But it also needs proper rewards, and rewards are significantly easier to implement and will have a much larger impact in the short term than anything else ANet could do unless they have a map just sitting there waiting to be implemented.

Deep down we both know ANet has nothing in store for WvW though. Nothing in the works. Our only hope is going to be tied to loot. Or a new game that isn’t afraid to deliver on what WvW could have been.

Isredel.4302:

Virtute.8251:

You want something different from what WvW is.

That’s because what WvW is, isn’t good. At least not for servers in the lower tiers. The fact that you even need to mention funding transfers is very telling of this.

Yes, it is telling of that, and I am also not one to feel remorse for it. I left Anvil Rock at its height, as part of the exodus that would break it, dropping it from rank 14 to 24 in about one month. In the next year, my younger brothers would buy GW2 and choose Eredon’s Terrace before becoming interested in WvW. The one whom did want to try WvW would then delete his partially leveled characters, for free transfer to tier 2, on my advice. He was pleased with the decision, as I was pleased with my prior decisions.

Myself and likely 90% of the hundreds of people I have guilded and partied with in the past 2 years have moved away from the low tiers before leaving the game. It’s not about zerging, it’s about having a bustling population on all sides of the fight, because that’s the only thing that makes WvW compelling to us.

2 years and nothing much has changed. It gets really stale really fast. Some people were bored with it by the end of Beta, let alone 2 years in. Quite simply more de elopment money and time needs to be spent to add things to WvW.

Kontrolle.3514:

Atherakhia.4086:

Kontrolle.3514:

Baldrick.8967:

It’s very simple- loot.

EoTm gives more badges, more loot, more karma by just following a train.

Silverwastes chests and events give so much loot it’s not even funny.

An hour in wvw and unless you play a spam 1 tag everything class you might see half a dozen bits of loot, compared to opening 20-30 chests, 30 events, 40 loot bags containing up to t6 mats, etc if you wonder around in Silverwastes.

I’m sure a lot more players would try wvw if it had more loot, even if they have totally failed to update it in two years.

Maybe ‘season 3’ should be a revision and new maps to wvw, with piles of achievement points available (won’t happen, but we can dream).

As it is there is almost no reason to carry on logging in to wvw apart from the occasional even fight, and it’s very clear that is the conclusion reached by the majority of players.

From all things the WvW needs, loot is none of it.

We need new maps, bigger maps and more ways to escape a megablob for 5-man groups. And jes, the last tier of servers should be merged.

The loot is how you get new players in. Everything you mentioned is how you retain the players that come.

And this! is the main problem of WvW!
Its you guys, the generation “login-reward”, running from farmevent to farm event with your blob, never trying something else because you could miss your champbag, karma, loot, money, xp whatever.

You run behind a tag and if no tag is there, you usually flame, whine and troll about it.
In the first weeks we laughed about the community and the design of GW2, we called it “together alone” everyone for himself, because everything has to be solobale these days.

i might sound like a grumpy old man but back then, in DAoC we got just nothing for playing RvR, it has even very high costs, forcing communities to organize together.
Jes, later you got some ranks with uber abillitys but to reach those you relied on teamplay.

Jes there are organized guilds here but lets be honest? What happens if your couple of “brain-commander-tags” leaves or is offline? Nothing.

I would love to see a server with alternate ruleset, no ascended, no loot, just pure fighting. Awesome fights and fun at playing is reward enough for me.

in a couple of jears i forgot how much wealth and stuff i had, but not this one fight, were we stomped 2vs8 in a fight for about 30 minutes, were we killed them over and over until they logged off^^

I’m not talking about kill loot. I’m talking about 1st place for the week gets X, 2nd place gets a little less than X, and 3rd place gets even less than that. But at least give SOMETHING. Anything.

Not everyone is looking for open field battle. My preferred play-style in WvW is defending. Setting up and maintaining defences; annihilating attacking forces with ACs, Cannons, Trebs. So no, pure fighting is not something I like. If you want that, might I suggest League of Legends?

Not loot at all.
Most WvW players that want loot are pretty aweful.

The real reason is that server’s become unbalanced because of populations. When you have 5 times the numbers of the other side you crush them and take the entire map.

When you take the entire map…the other side just leaves.

When the other side leaves you can’t take anymore stuff…so it becomes running for supply and building stuff…
Once everything is upgraded and siege capped…you have only a few sets of weak monsters to kill….

That is the real reason.

Because a game like GW2 attracts players that want an easy PvE game mode. Most competitive players are playing games that center around PvP like LoL, DOTA2, etc.

Most of the WvW players are players looking for an RPG leveling game with large scale PvP elements which is a pretty narrow field. It certainly doesn’t help that most players have to pour 100+ hours into the game to be on relatively equal footing against a typical opponent.

It’s because the reward structure is pretty lackluster with a grindy rank system. Also, once someone gets about 1,400 WvW ranks, they have nothing to spend their ability points on.

meh. wvw is complicated, most people are not up for a complex intelligent game, is all.

people who can figure it out gravitated to the top tiers quickly. the rest faded.

not saying ANet overestimated their audience.

Nanyetah Elohi.4852:

people who can figure it out gravitated to the top tiers quickly. the rest faded.

I’m sure the coin that the T1 servers put on buying coverage helped on lower tiers fading and everyone stacking on top.

people who want to play wvw gravitated to the top tiers. Same with the rest of the game, people who what to harvest pve benefits gravitate.

Interesting is, wvw is interesting. why are people doing this?

Jeknar.6184:

Nanyetah Elohi.4852:

people who can figure it out gravitated to the top tiers quickly. the rest faded.

I’m sure the coin that the T1 servers put on buying coverage helped on lower tiers fading and everyone stacking on top.

blah about buying. I swear. I paid far more on my ascended gear for my main than I will admit.

how, how, are we supposed to come up with that much stuff?? without just go to credit card.