Guild Wars 2

I mean WvW is run on entirely separate servers right? Just because there are 24 NA PvE servers doesn’t mean there has to be 24 WvW as well…. does it?

I think 15 or 18 servers would be more competitive than what we have now, and it would be an entirely separate type of transfer from PvE transfers.

I believe the original point was to have PvPers benefitting PvEers. That’s what those bonuses are when you’re earning points each week. It’s a way to have some synergy between the two types of game play which rarely happens in an MMO.

Wraistlin.6072:

I believe the original point was to have PvPers benefitting PvEers. That’s what those bonuses are when you’re earning points each week. It’s a way to have some synergy between the two types of game play which rarely happens in an MMO.

I’ve played 1200+ hours of GW2 and never once have I witnessed evidence of this synergy actually existing, i.e. a PvE player thanking a WvW player for the bonuses.

They might not thank them, but they are very much helped by the bonuses we give them.

It is also a good way to make actual teams.

They should not be… IMO the server concept for WvW shouldn’t exist at all. As to why, my guess is because it was the easiest to implement.

Easy.
The WvWers fight at their expense, to give those PvErs some more hp so they can be happy stood in the fire, extra mf so they can loot more etc.
Also all that extra loot & gold they get, means lower (lol as if) tp prices so those of us in WvWs can pay them for the super rare (as in non-existant) mats that we need to craft our time gated crap.

Let’s be honest. None of us wvw players do this so our world can get the bonuses, but for glory, for the fights, and for our guild pride.

Out of that of course, the pve side of things get to enjoy good stuff. WVW – military/police/ those who protect that country so to speak. Pve – the normal everyday folk.

We don’t expect thanks from them. We do it so they can enjoy what they do.

Most of the replies here are extremely ignorant. Most WvWers also PvE, just because you can’t fathom it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. There are very few Pure WvWers, the large population of PvEers help those who WvW when they PvE. When I do dungeon runs for the first few times, it ran a lot smoother cause guildies who PvEed mostly helped, those bonuses also helps me get better things while PvEing.

Sovereign.1093:

Let’s be honest. None of us wvw players do this so our world can get the bonuses, but for glory, for the fights, and for our guild pride.

And then the pve players brag or whine based on our servers status without ever even pressing the B button. GG Anet.

Straegen.2938:

They should not be… IMO the server concept for WvW shouldn’t exist at all. As to why, my guess is because it was the easiest to implement.

Thank you!

This has gotten off-topic. My point is we have a huge population imbalance across WvW and one of the fundamental questions should be, is 24 servers too many? 24 may be the right amount for PvE players, but does that mean it’s the right amount for WvW?

Are we are trading some resemblance of WvW population balance for PvE buffs, and if so, are we getting a good deal?

WvW was originally designed as a direct extension of PvE: “Come and defend your world from invaders”; WvW benefits apply in PvE; etc.

It was recognized that most GW2 players would sign up for PvE, and the idea was that WvW would create a natural transition path from PvE to PvP, especially for L80 players seeking more end game content and challenge.

What was a great idea in theory hasn’t worked out in practice, with the numbers moving to WvW and PvP being been far lower than anticipated. WvW participation has been so abysmally low, in fact, that even simple incentives to participate in WvW like the need to get 500 Badges of Honor for a Legendary have failed and Anet have had to resort to giving them away free as achievement point rewards. As for the WvW buffs to PvE, the only people who even notice them are the WvW’ers. The result has been that we now have too many underpopulated WvW servers.

The only remaining benefits of keeping PVe and WVW linked are: a) players who join WvW default join a sever containing players they may know from their PvE sever; and b) guilds can participate in both PvE and WvW knowing their members will be on the same server together.

These last benefits are real but could be achieved with less WvW servers, simply by having some PvE servers sharing the WvW servers (e.g. two PvE servers to each WvW server for all except the top tier or so in each region).

They falsely think PvEers and WvWers mutually care for each other somehow.

Zenguy.6421:

WvW was originally designed as a direct extension of PvE: “Come and defend your world from invaders”; WvW benefits apply in PvE; etc.

It was recognized that most GW2 players would sign up for PvE, and the idea was that WvW would create a natural transition path from PvE to PvP, especially for L80 players seeking more end game content and challenge.

What was a great idea in theory hasn’t worked out in practice, with the numbers moving to WvW and PvP being been far lower than anticipated. WvW participation has been so abysmally low, in fact, that even simple incentives to participate in WvW like the need to get 500 Badges of Honor for a Legendary have failed and Anet have had to resort to giving them away free as achievement point rewards. As for the WvW buffs to PvE, the only people who even notice them are the WvW’ers. The result has been that we now have too many underpopulated WvW servers.

The only remaining benefits of keeping PVe and WVW linked are: a) players who join WvW default join a sever containing players they may know from their PvE sever; and b) guilds can participate in both PvE and WvW knowing their members will be on the same server together.

These last benefits are real but could be achieved with less WvW servers, simply by having some PvE servers sharing the WvW servers (e.g. two PvE servers to each WvW server for all except the top tier or so in each region).

actually, they were given away because anet doesnt want to anger the droves of legendary chasers that spend hundreds of dollars on their game. GW2 is entirely catered to that player base, look at how their manifesto was chucked out the window and we now have power creep in WvW.

I have logged in for 30 minutes total since the patch of bloodlust. seeing if Anet will recognize how pointless all this power creep is for WvW and i could play again.

CrassBippy.4619:

actually, they [badges of honor] were given away because anet doesnt want to anger the droves of legendary chasers that spend hundreds of dollars on their game.

That’s what I was saying. The idea that all those players would go to WvW to get those badges of honor simply failed and now, as well as having to give away badges to PVe’ers, Anet have have too many WvW servers for the number of people who play WvW.

Nice idea separating the servers, but how would you handle guilds?

I doubt ANet thought the WvW participation rates would be higher. The servers can only handle a small fraction of the total PVE player base base in WvW.

Jamais vu.5284:

They falsely think PvEers and WvWers mutually care for each other somehow.

This right here, lol if the PvE community cared for it’s WvW counterpart more people would rear their heads into the WvW borderlands, but no, constantly I find massive PvE communities and just because you WvW doesn’t mean you don’t step out of WvW, it means you enjoy fight, you enjoy putting yourself to the test against others. “But narsil that’s why there is Spvp, why not just go there.”. Because Spvp doesn’t allow me to use the armor I have gained, doesn’t allow me to try out different builds i might want to try with food buffs to compensate for my lack of one area and etc.

Now for you math lovers out there here is a small proof. PvE leads to WvW, but WvW doesn’t lead to PvE necessarily. Since the prior is needed for the latter, it is essential that you first PvE to get the gear , stats you want, and then you go into WvW to use those items. You wont succeed, and even if you do it won’t be optimal to grind your gear and levels and stats solely on WvW, it just would hinder your progression.

So why should we the WvWers care for the Pvers if they don’t care for us. So we grind daily the zergfest, capture points, gain wxp so that a PvEr can get that 10% stat boost, but in what do PvErs exactly benefit us back? aside from waving their newly obtained Twilight and their completionist title or etc.. Im not hating on you if you do achieve that, what i am getting at is that there is a community that gives up part of is time to get those WvW points, meanwhile the other spends it on selfish needs such as skins, armor, gold etc..

Saying WvWers are just selfish and shallow for the reasons they WvW (e.g. Self satisfaction, gratification of the fight) is just as well saying that PvErs aren’t selfish, how about you give me some of your gold you farm in PvE to compensate for my time in WVW.

Right now my server has lost a ton of people, some in Teq, soem for GTA V, some because of bloodlust… WvW is my realm atm, pve doesn’t intrigue me, every patch is another carrot, here this new back item, this new sword skin. Atm am not interested in ascended, even if later on it does make it impossible for me to roam anymore, but i live for the thrill of the fight!

Server pride? A more pertinent question would be:

Why the kitten do the server transfer fees are related to server capacity instead of the server WvW performance? PvE and sPvP do not matter due to the Guesting Feature. This only affects WvW and badly!!!

Yeah i think the same. WvW servers and players should be different than the PVE ones. But it will be too difficult to change this from now.

Maybe instead of antagonizing and belittling your server’s PVE guilds, try making friends with and working with them every once in a while? On my server some of our wvw only guilds are friendly with our elite pve guilds, they have a few members who wvw several times a week and sometimes try their hand at commanding the puggies. We invite them into the wvw teamspeak server and we work with them on traiting and gearing them out for success in wvw so everyone has a good time and they help us wvwers out by going to their wealthy guildies to help us out with siege blueprints just sitting in their bank, crafting superior siege with their now useless skill points now that they have their legendaries, and sometimes even large gold donations. Sometimes we run guild missions together so we can get our commendations fast for the ascended trinkets and get back into wvw fast. It is possible to build a community, that is why the pve and wvw servers are linked. Try it.

rhodoc.2381:

Yeah i think the same. WvW servers and players should be different than the PVE ones. But it will be too difficult to change this from now.

I think it could be fixed in some way. For example make it into a format like Spvp servers, where you chose which server you want to join, and there would be borderlands, red green and blue with the EB and basically it would have to tally how many can join each given match, set a defined balance for all 3 instances of the borderlands, and you would basically win given on the amount of PPT you helped accumulate and wxp during the capture of given things.

In the end you could also make it so that when a server is full, the next one is available and etc, and the last servers with less people would also be balanced even if it was only 30 in those servers, heck you could even make it so that the WvW matches reset every time one side dominates the other completely… This is starting to sound like Spvp now >.> grabs tin foil hat

renmei.3102:

Maybe instead of antagonizing and belittling your server’s PVE guilds, try making friends with and working with them every once in a while? On my server some of our wvw only guilds are friendly with our elite pve guilds, they have a few members who wvw several times a week and sometimes try their hand at commanding the puggies. We invite them into the wvw teamspeak server and we work with them on traiting and gearing them out for success in wvw so everyone has a good time and they help us wvwers out by going to their wealthy guildies to help us out with siege blueprints just sitting in their bank, crafting superior siege with their now useless skill points now that they have their legendaries, and sometimes even large gold donations.

Idk which server you are from, but our server is kinda small, and most of the times every guild has either a communal TS or a private vent, mumble etc.. There is a lot of tension at times. Sometimes PvErs wont WvW unless there is a full on blown out zerg, and if not , they will resume with map completion or dungeons and leave WvW aside.

We have massive PvE guilds that are WvW oriented as well, but the point i was trying to make is, in the end there is more PvE being done then WvW, and my server needs more people, and the problem is you are not gonna force anyone to join WvW to help you out.

The problem for me is, when you don’t have numbers, and the community is small, you get to know most of everyone, and tensions can grow in communities and guilds. Also when WvW relies on a chunk of PvE players to go in there, and not enough are showing up, it harms the WvW aspect of that server.

The only group of players that is smaller than those that ‘purely WvW’ is those that purely PVP, in fact I would hazard a guess that there are more people that only PVP than there are that only WvW.

WvW is inextricably tied up with PVE and to excel in WvW these days you need to spend a fair amount of time in PVE or spend a truck load of cash on gems. Walking around Malchors Leap picking flowers is as much PVE as doing Thingummy dungeon path 2012 is.

I like this idea and it could easily be done without hurting PVE buffs. Just combine two low-pop servers (preferably in a way that balances the Oceanic people) and let whatever buffs that WvW server earns apply to both PVE servers. Simple.

Secondly, there is a false dichotomy between WvWers and PVEers being made here. While some may fall more heavily into one category or the other, we all do a mix of both. While I prefer WvW, I now have to do tedious dragon and temple events to get dragonite because the drop rate for this in WvW is horrible. I have to champ farm for other mats and money. Like it or not I am a PVE’er, and not by choice but necessity.

Cuchullain.3104:

I like this idea and it could easily be done without hurting PVE buffs. Just combine two low-pop servers (preferably in a way that balances the Oceanic people) and let whatever buffs that WvW server earns apply to both PVE servers. Simple.

^ This

My question is still whether having extreme WvW population imbalance is worth the PvE buffs and the answer is simply no. If anything it makes it worse because to get the best PvE buffs you have to go to the best WvW servers.

The only logical explanation is that Anet is leveraging the continued imbalance to force more and more players to transfer in order to continue to enjoy the game. Once the transfers to top servers stop coming in, they’ll find a way to break things up and repeat the pattern.

I personally would rather pay a small monthly fee and have competitive, balanced matches.

Or everyone can transfer off these PvE only servers(low ranked ones) to a WvW server, and the stupid PvE People can play WvW themselves if they want the buffs!

Jamais vu.5284:

They falsely think PvEers and WvWers mutually care for each other somehow.

I truly doubt the gap is as big as everyone thinks between the two. I’m hard pressed to find anyone considering themselves a hardcore WvW’r that hasn’t or doesn’t run a dungeon or participate in anything outside of the borderlands, at least not from the WvW side of things. I’m sure their are plenty of folks that call themselves PvE’rs that haven’t stepped foot in WvW.

The server architecture is in place, I doubt they could just undo the PvE-WvW link even if they wanted to. Any solution will likely have to be a sidestep from this link, not a severing.

Lurch.9517:

to excel in WvW these days you need to spend a fair amount of time in PVE or spend a truck load of cash on gems.

wat

Wraistlin.6072:

I truly doubt the gap is as big as everyone thinks between the two. I’m hard pressed to find anyone considering themselves a hardcore WvW’r that hasn’t or doesn’t run a dungeon or participate in anything outside of the borderlands, at least not from the WvW side of things. I’m sure their are plenty of folks that call themselves PvE’rs that haven’t stepped foot in WvW.

And you need your home server or indeed any fixed server for that how? Events are constantly overflowed anyway. LFG has basically abolished server-side dungeon grouping.
You can and will guest to other servers for temple assaults.

So um.

Fishbait.6723:

Easy.
The WvWers fight at their expense, to give those PvErs some more hp so they can be happy stood in the fire, extra mf so they can loot more etc.
Also all that extra loot & gold they get, means lower (lol as if) tp prices so those of us in WvWs can pay them for the super rare (as in non-existant) mats that we need to craft our time gated crap.

PvE feeds WvW and WvW feeds PvE, you demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding as to how game modes overlap.

Asudementio.8526:

PvE feeds WvW and WvW feeds PvE, you demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding as to how game modes overlap.

Then explain how they “feed” each other.

Jamais vu.5284:

Asudementio.8526:

PvE feeds WvW and WvW feeds PvE, you demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding as to how game modes overlap.

Then explain how they “feed” each other.

PvE is usually where all pvp players get invested in online gaming, pve players will from time to time become full-time pvpers. So any PvP mode has pve to thank for some portion of its dedicated player base. WvW, specifically in GW2, provides boosts to pver’s as well as a reason for guild movement and community synergy. PvErs are the source of our consumables, our runes, our armors, and a lot of the other little things we utilize.

The list goes on and on but the gist of it is that when you have a game that shares elements throughout multiple game modes (say WvW, PvE, sPvP) you get overlap and interactions between each of the modes which are both positive and negative. They are tied together and PvErs aren’t leeching off WvW anymore than i am leeching off a PvEr when i buy food from the TP for a price much less than the time investment it would take me if that PvEr wasn’t making food.

Asudementio.8526:

Jamais vu.5284:

Asudementio.8526:

PvE feeds WvW and WvW feeds PvE, you demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding as to how game modes overlap.

Then explain how they “feed” each other.

PvE is usually where all pvp players get invested in online gaming, pve players will from time to time become full-time pvpers. So any PvP mode has pve to thank for some portion of its dedicated player base. WvW, specifically in GW2, provides boosts to pver’s as well as a reason for guild movement and community synergy. PvErs are the source of our consumables, our runes, our armors, and a lot of the other little things we utilize.

The list goes on and on but the gist of it is that when you have a game that shares elements throughout multiple game modes (say WvW, PvE, sPvP) you get overlap and interactions between each of the modes which are both positive and negative. They are tied together and PvErs aren’t leeching off WvW anymore than i am leeching off a PvEr when i buy food from the TP for a price much less than the time investment it would take me if that PvEr wasn’t making food.

Lol you are missing the point, of course PvE leads to PvP lol, Unless you had every item to begin with and then you could PvP without the need of PvE to supply you with the lvls, weapons, stats etc.. The point is, this is obvious, now Spvp gives you everything but the reason Spvp isn’t as popular is because people prefer to use their own achieved items.

So saying PvE leads to Spvp is like saying that Life leads to death. You can’t be dead unless you had life to begin with, the argument is pointless, because it only proves that PvP needs the stuff from PvE, but PvP like WvW wouldn’t exist without PvE, because players need a place to farm and gather things first.

Now this is not the argument, the argument is PvE needs WvW to get its crafting bonuses, its HP bonuses etc.. So lets say Anet just gave you Spvp but with all food buffs and also gave you all armor at your disposal, there the need for PvE would be terminated from a PvPer perspective, because they would become two separate realms, and then the PvE side would be the one hurting because it wouldn’t get its bonuses, meanwhile if you removed WvW, the PvE side wouldn’t hurt as much, in contrast it would keep on, only problem would be that certain food items wouldn’t be used, but I think a stat boost over a food buff sounds way more better in any term.

In this game though some of us invest into WvW because PvE doesn’t appeal anymore, we get our armor, our desired stats, our desired look, some of us maybe don’t want the legendary skins, so PvE has no more use to us, except maybe farming gold, but the is we don’t need anything, besides cosmetic reasons, then PvE doesn’t have much to offer.

Still missing the point guys. I keep asking:

Are the benefits of having WvW linked to PvE servers worth the major population imbalances in WvW created by too many servers to effectively populate?

But how else should the worlds be decided?
Simply joining a team?
How would that solve anything? People would still join the winning team and we would have the exact same issues we have now.

Don’t the benefits affect you WvW (all those +x% things, like using a resource node again, crafting, healing, etc.) players as well?

1. Point servers 19-24 to servers 13-18 when they enter WvW. Point 24 to 13, 23 to 14, 22->15, 21->16, 20->17, 19->18

2. Give WvW teams new “World” names (cooler ones) and create a separate “world” transfer option. Now the “server” you are on is where you PvE. What “world” you’re on is where you WvW. WvW is hosted entirely separate from PvE anyway.

3. Then after 2 weeks or so, those who were on servers 19-24 are given one week of free world transfer option in case they aren’t liking where they were moved to.

4. Now implement seasons – 2 leagues of 9 worlds. 8 weeks long where you play each other server exactly twice. Top tiers will not change at all at first, but silver league will now be fiercely and awesomely competitive, and those who are tired of the karma trains and blowouts of upper tiers will be attracted to silver league for actual FUN! The process of re-balancing has begun.

skullmount.1758:

Don’t the benefits affect you WvW (all those +x% things, like using a resource node again, crafting, healing, etc.) players as well?

we used to do karma bombs on thursdays when consumables could be boosted.

that is the only effect I have ever witnessed or cared about.

most non-wvw players don’t even seem to know they get they are getting bonuses.

I am all for completely separating WvW Servers and PVE Servers. That would make balancing much easier.

Solstice.1097:

1. Point servers 19-24 to servers 13-18 when they enter WvW. Point 24 to 13, 23 to 14, 22->15, 21->16, 20->17, 19->18

2. Give WvW teams new “World” names (cooler ones) and create a separate “world” transfer option. Now the “server” you are on is where you PvE. What “world” you’re on is where you WvW. WvW is hosted entirely separate from PvE anyway.

3. Then after 2 weeks or so, those who were on servers 19-24 are given one week of free world transfer option in case they aren’t liking where they were moved to.

4. Now implement seasons – 2 leagues of 9 worlds. 8 weeks long where you play each other server exactly twice. Top tiers will not change at all at first, but silver league will now be fiercely and awesomely competitive, and those who are tired of the karma trains and blowouts of upper tiers will be attracted to silver league for actual FUN! The process of re-balancing has begun.

This would also keep Anet cash flow going with gem sales for transfers because a lot of upper tiers would transfer to silver leagues, and periodically top silver league teams would move into gold league perpetuating the process.

I would love to see the WvW be split from PvE. That way you have the people who really want to be a part of WvW participate more so than just karma farmers. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure that Karma farmers will come and join in, but the matches will be more evenly spread. Populations would be combined, and probably less overall servers for WvW.

To many in this thread – it’s not a “PvE” vs “WvW” thing. The OP is pointing out that the WvW is affected far more by server population than PvE. It might be better to have fewer WvW servers, separate from the PvE servers, so people can PvE where they want and still get a decent WvW match.

Wanderer.3248:

Nice idea separating the servers, but how would you handle guilds?

By embracing guilds as the basis of WvW. IMO, guilds should be able to create alliances with other guilds and declare war on other guilds. At reset guild alliances, guild war declarations, typical guild play times, typical guild play hours and other factors would be mixed together to create X number of WvW match ups that are as balanced as possible. The system would never repeat the same guild match ups and would never put warring guilds on the same side. This allows for a nice variety every week. All rewards and points would be guild based and would be reflected on a scoreboard both weekly and all time.

This solves most balance issues, creates variety in the system and allows guilds to strut their collective stuff against all other guilds in the world.