Why aren't we recruiting New Players?

Why aren't we recruiting New Players?

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Posted by: Yuffi.2430

Yuffi.2430

Don’t understand why this double posted, and removing one posting deleted the other one too.
Apologies for any confusion caused. Will redo later.

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Posted by: Yuffi.2430

Yuffi.2430

The WvW active population is at an all time low. There are many reasons for this, but this thread is not about the reasons people have left – there’s plenty of other posts that cover these and hopefully Anet are aware of the issues.
Instead I want to question how we can encourage new people to become involved in WvW in the hopes that Anet will read our ideas and have the sense to incorporate some or all of them in the “Big WvW Update”. With this in mind, please do not post about wanting old maps back or wanting things to return to how they were years ago – new players will not have experienced these things so it’s not relevant to this thread.

If WvW is to survive we need to recruit new players – and these will probably be either players new to GW2/HoT or players who play PvE and could be tempted to try WvW. So how do we get them involved? I’m happy to accept casual involvement here because today’s new casual player may well be tomorrow’s dedicated WvW player if they enjoy themselves enough.

Things we can do as a Community:

1. Welcome new players and be tolerant of their lack of knowledge and their mistakes. WvW has little direction or support for new players other than what we make ourselves.

2. Command – either informally within a party or with a Commander’s Tag. New players need help learning what to do and where to go. If someone takes on this role it may help prevent them leaving too soon. Just partying up with a player for an hour to get them started can be a massive help. Good pug Commanders are a keystone for encouraging a new player to stay.

I believe most of us do these things anyway, so perhaps the best we can do at the moment is to keep playing – even though many veterans are finding this harder to justify because of the feelings created by the combination of recent changes, the lack of past support and a vacuum of communication.

Other ideas for what we as a community can do are welcome!

What does Anet need to do?
Or should this be “Why are these players not already playing WvW?”

I suspect existing players don’t see WvW as fun or rewarding enough at the moment. New players probably see it as empty or confusing. Perhaps the following ideas may help:

1. Introduce WvW exclusive sets of Armour and Weapon skins for players to collect. These could be in several tiers in the same way that there are Cultural weapon/armour sets, and could unlock according to WvW level. They should only be obtained via WvW participation (perhaps badges of honour?), but should be usable as a skin anywhere.

2. Change WvW chest rewards to include wanted items/materials. Introducing materials and items that are relatively expensive on the Trading Post would encourage more players to venture into WvW, if only to farm at first. For example if Linen dropped from chests when you take a camp we’d see a lot more players capping camps for the loot. It would even be possible for Anet to use WvW drops to balance the TP simply by adding items or changing drop rates.

3. Make Memories of Battle account bound. Yes this means that any player wanting to craft a new Legendary would have to participate in WvW for a bit, but this is no different to locking away WvW Guild Upgrades behind PvE content is it. And who knows, maybe some of these players would continue playing in WvW…

4. Look at the new Deserted Borderlands map from the point of view of a NEW player. It’s not very easy to navigate around initially, and if a new player can’t easily navigate around the map they are not going to have fun, and will not want to stay learn the intricacies of the map. A new player will not want to spend 10 minutes lost and trying to work out how to get to a fight or objective – even veteran players who had more incentive to stay and play have been strongly deterred by this. These days companies understand that a good/successful website has to be easy to navigate and people need to be able to get where they want within a reasonably short amount of time: this is also true for WvW maps. Making navigation of the new maps easier and quicker would be a big improvement for new players.

Other ideas welcome here too!

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Posted by: Alloy.2839

Alloy.2839

Before WvW is attractive to PvE players we need to understand what PvE players want. I will base the following on my observations of the behavior of PvE players that I have seen during my time farming PvE for resources to play WvW (the only part of GW2 that I enjoyed). PvE players want the most gold per hour. They typically blob up to accomplish this if possible. The SilverWastes chest farm train is one recent example. The champ chest train is another, this train moves to the most lucrative farm map as ANet nerfs and buffs various aspects of the game. Then there is the world boss train, this also includes a large group of players that simply sit out most of the event and only tag the boss at the end. I have seen and participated in all of these in my quest to afford ascended equipment for my WvW characters. EOTM is also lucrative I have heard, although I really never farmed it.

There are other reasons people play PvE, like role playing, collections, vanity skins, etc. I will leave these aside since the loot per hour and blob behavior must be solved to get most of the PvE crowd into WvW (in my opinion of course). And right here is the unsolvable problem. The typical behavior of PvE players is incompatible with the changes introduced by HoT and the desires of many forum posters for buffed defenses, roaming, and small scale fights. They will try to blob around the maps for the best gold/hour and quickly find that WvW is no where near as lucrative as other activities.

I will close with some information I read on another thread recently. One poster said that the highest return they knew of was an activity that could give you 90s every 90 seconds. By my calculations that is 36 gold/hour. So if we want the PvE blob to come to WvW just increase the loot to maybe 40 or 50 gold/hour and watch the PvE trains blob all maps. Problem solved, right?

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Posted by: Absurd.2947

Absurd.2947

We already know what lured PvE players into WvW- it was the tournament with its achievement points and rewards.

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

Callouts into Lions Arch was a really important way WvW recruited new players. That’s long gone.

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Posted by: Phantom.8130

Phantom.8130

I think EotM was the turning point. When that got released, there wasn’t really any reason for new PvE players to come into WvW. They could just go karma train in EotM to get their badges for their legendaries, to farm WvW ranks, to get piles of gold. There was no more WvW map completion to pull them into WvW either, so many just…. stopped coming in at all.

They can make more gold in PvE, they can get the badges for the legendaries in EotM. There’s also not a whole lot of risk involved in either of those. One thing I’ve learned is that PvE absolutely hate getting killed. One of the main rules of WvW is “You’re gonna die, a lot. It’s just gonna happen. Get used to it.”

So…. basically, they would need to revert things back to how it was at launch, and bump up WvW rewards. Anything else is trying to patch a sinking ship with a cork and duct tape. It’s doomed for failure.

Now, from the player side of things, WvW players need to be inviting and friendly. None of this “screaming like a lunatic because your raid wiped” crap, no bad attitudes, no kitten waving. It’s a video game, not a military boot camp. A basic level of politeness and respect needs to be shown, and those who are so socially dysfunction to be unable to show even that need to dealt with. You’ll lose a small number of toxic players, but gain a larger number of positive players, a better overall atmosphere and a healthier environment. Guilds will be able to recruit a lot of these new players, and they’ll blossom as well. You’ll have a good sized pug/militia force to work with. And generally, a greatly improved overall experience. I know there are people who think they have the right to scream at random strangers for dying in a video game, these people need punched in the face. Their parents are failures, and raised a spoiled monster. Those monsters are simply unable to be decent human beings until they’re bleeding from their nose and mouth. Go to any bar on the planet, and once last call hits, you’ll see several of these same types of people picking fights. They’re usually the guys who weren’t able to pick up a girl, and are unable to accept that it’s because they’re so obnoxious. Once they’re bleeding, they’re far more respectful. Unfortunately, you can’t actually punch someone in the face over the internet, which is why the worst of the worst behavior tends to go on here. So you have to have a unified group to handle it verbally. It’s up to the server communities to police itself, through whatever legitimate means are available to them. If that isn’t done, new players will just go somewhere else when they get harassed. WvW wasn’t something that was important to them the day before, and it won’t be something that’s important to them the day after. They can take it or leave it. So the communities have to make sure there’s nothing pushing their decision in the direction of “leave it”, even if that means dealing with a few obnoxious regulars.

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Posted by: Teevell.1684

Teevell.1684

You shouldn’t force people/lure people who don’t want to PvP into a PvP zone. If someone expresses no interest in PvP, then we shouldn’t be making adjustments to WvW to try and get them in there.

And with the way WvW is right now, it’s hard to keep actual WvW players in there, let alone draw more people in. If Anet makes WvW fun and rewarding again, players will come. And rewards don’t have to just be tangible goodies like gold (though that does need an increase in WvW). PvPers can feel rewarded by successfully defending against superior numbers, making a great play that wins them a map, a difficult duel with a fellow roamer you ran into while scouting. If you can make these activities more fun and enjoyable, make them feel like you’re actually accomplishing something, that will help bring back PvPers, too.

Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Jocksy.3415

Jocksy.3415

We need server chat. Just like we have map chat, local chat, team chat. Server chat could be used to indicate that there is activities going on in WvW.

I remember befor megaservers, we used to go in cities to say “name is leading on map, and name is to tag up on map at time” and that would bring people…

Gold and such might be an incitative, but we don’t want to attract a populaiton of people who disappear when the going gets hard. Some people really just look for something to do.

When I was commanding, I had a few PvE’ers in my frind list that I used to whisper to When I putted a map in wood. One loves to siege up with his guild, another liked to take objective with her two friends, so they needed paper structures or undefended ones to have a chance.
Server chat might be used for that, or to say that structure on map is under attack, and get some involvement.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

There a lot to do in pve now and a lot to come there no more need for pve players to make there own end game in wvw or eotm. WvW may not be all that worst off with an over all smaller pop too. The problem is if that pop all plays at near the same time. If wvw is super active during NA prime on all 3 maps but less active during the other time zones that not a problem for most of the ppl playing wvw its when there an off set of when ppl play.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: emendez.3705

emendez.3705

wvw rewards are not anywhere near on par with pve rewards in terms of gold and skins. you can be in pve and make far more gold for your time than wvw regardless of the time zone you’re in.
lets not forget about the new legendary armor/weapons are pve exclusive and the fact that you cant create any of the old legendary weapons without spending MANY hours in pve.
achievements points are vast in pve as well with living story updates too to boot which hurts. as well as wvw lack of tags which is a problem even in tier 1 at certain time zones. I have played since the start with breaks ever now and then and only have like 8k achievement points(wvw exclusive) while there are people with 30k+ now. Not saying anything about their hard work but pve offers far more than wvw and anet seems to be committed to keeping it that way. When hot was launched EOTM rewards were nerfed to be on par with wvw by 25% instead of wvw increased.

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Posted by: MasterD.4790

MasterD.4790

The real problem is WvW can’t keep the players it has….

Normally you have a swath of people who are experienced WvW’ers pugmanding etc. Going around the map, and even if they aren’t explaining every detail…are showing new people how WvW works and how things are done on a basic level. PvE’ers come in…see a tag….follow the tag…and start learning.

When you no longer keep your core WvW’ers interested in the game….you lose this.

There is no group…there is no tag…and if you happen to find a tag…it is probably some other pve’er trying it out.

Does that mean eventually new people won’t become experienced commanders? No…they will…but that process takes quite a bit of time.

In the meantime….you are losing people who might normal have been interested in playing WvW who originally were pve’ers.

In order to have a healthy game…you need a game mode that interests and KEEPS existing players….which inherently will help promote others to get into the game mode….with out the former…your game mode is eventually doomed…IMO

Gamadorn the epitome of a hotjoin hero

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Posted by: CrimsonNeonite.1048

CrimsonNeonite.1048

There’s many players, that are simply not interested in pvp or wvw, or they just prefer to do their own thing really.

WvW Seasons just brought in players temporarily, yet those rewards they offered, weren’t worth the time and effort.

The achievements they brought in during Season 3, only kept those players in WvWonly for a short period. Those players are just not interested in staying in WvW for long, or committing to getting organized or learning to play better.

Scrubio
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.

(edited by CrimsonNeonite.1048)

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Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

PvE players used to have to come in WvW for their legendaries, they removed the requirement…

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Posted by: Swamurabi.7890

Swamurabi.7890

I used to see WvW recruiting spam in LA, after megaservers the spam is mainly in EB.

How long has it been easier to buy an experienced player(guild) from another server then to train an inexperienced newcomer to WvW?

How many FULL servers are there now?

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

PvE players used to have to come in WvW for their legendaries, they removed the requirement…

That’s how I got hooked; map completion.

Went in, had a commander nice enough to help me get my vistas, stayed to “pay back” the kindness. Found it was actually fun. Found my niche. Started playing obscene hours. Never got my legendary.

Prior to GW2 you would never have caught me dead in a pvp zone. One thousand faceplants later, it’s my preferred type of game mode.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

(edited by Jayne.9251)

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Posted by: Fuzzion.2504

Fuzzion.2504

Everyone is correct. WvW today is about playing cancer builds and classes. Prior to hot, wvw was more fun and better. The inbalance today is crazy.

Fuzzionx [SF]
Guest member of [LOVE]
JQ official Prime Minister

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Posted by: Jocksy.3415

Jocksy.3415

Everyone is correct. WvW today is about playing cancer builds and classes. Prior to hot, wvw was more fun and better. The inbalance today is crazy.

Cancer builds and imbalances did not come with Hot. They existed long before. Just think GWEN – it was all that was needed. now, pretty much all roasters make use of pretty much all classes (feeling a little sorry for the thieves, though).

People are getting tired of a game. it’s normal attrition. I know I’m almost at 5k hours, which is way more thant what I spent on any other game, so I believe retention rate is pretty good, altogether…

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Posted by: RedBaron.6058

RedBaron.6058

WvW on low population servers is the most disheartening thing ever in GW2…

“Blackadder: If you want something done properly, kill Baldrick before you start.”

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Posted by: Sadrien.3470

Sadrien.3470

I am recruiting new players, my guild actually doubled its size inviting new people to the game specifically to WvW.

Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.

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Posted by: displayname.8315

displayname.8315

For starters these people you are to recruit probably aren’t on your server to begin with. To get to you they have to understand how WvW recruiting works, then pay $25 USD or somewhere around 400 – 500 gold.

Others leave or take breaks and suddenly their faced with another $25 cost. Changing it up with a new server is actually pretty fun, all the new people and play styles… but it sure is expensive.

JQ subsidiary

(edited by displayname.8315)

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Posted by: Sadrien.3470

Sadrien.3470

For starters these people you are to recruit probably aren’t on your server to begin with. To get to you they have to understand how WvW recruiting works, then pay $25 USD or somewhere around 400 – 500 gold.

Others leave or take breaks and suddenly their faced with another $25 cost. Changing it up with a new server is actually pretty fun, all the new people and play styles… but it sure is expensive.

No, we brought them to the game, they got brand new accounts and we fund/help their leveling and gearing to get them to WvW. They are currently leveling atm… but no transfers needed because they start on mag.

Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.

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Posted by: illenos.5134

illenos.5134

Everyone is correct. WvW today is about playing cancer builds and classes. Prior to hot, wvw was more fun and better. The inbalance today is crazy.

The inbalance started with the changes to the trait system. At this point roaming pretty much died but most players didn’t care, because you can just stack more defensive stats for zerging.
HoT have changed only one thing: now everybody in WvW is affected. There should have been a bigger uproar but whenever someone is complaining about balance, the “learn to adapt or die”-white knights appear and everything is fine.

Awwdorable – roaming princess, awesome qq’er,
incredible flamer, part-time forum warrior, salty as
kitten!

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Posted by: displayname.8315

displayname.8315

For starters these people you are to recruit probably aren’t on your server to begin with. To get to you they have to understand how WvW recruiting works, then pay $25 USD or somewhere around 400 – 500 gold.

Others leave or take breaks and suddenly their faced with another $25 cost. Changing it up with a new server is actually pretty fun, all the new people and play styles… but it sure is expensive.

No, we brought them to the game, they got brand new accounts and we fund/help their leveling and gearing to get them to WvW. They are currently leveling atm… but no transfers needed because they start on mag.

Oh good lets hope by the time their leveled and geared up mag is still doing WvW. I know they imploded and dropped far not long ago. That’s very discouraging for people especially when they don’t want to deal with transferring.

But nice to see people are still putting in the effort for these servers. SoS was raising money again when I left for T1. I gave 50 gold last time tho, few hundred to YB while there, probably 100 to FA, nice to be back on a “very high” pop server again tho. People are too spread out.

JQ subsidiary

(edited by displayname.8315)

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Posted by: Zephyra.4709

Zephyra.4709

Yeah…. long-gone are the days of broadcasters in map chat advertising WvW guilds or shouting out calls for help in X borderland.

I haven’t seen a single one in what, a year now? More than that? It’s… depressing.

WvW has changed, for the worse. It lacks incentive, good map mechanics, tournaments, rewards, server pride gone down the drain, game balance patches etc, bug fixes.

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Posted by: KayCee.4653

KayCee.4653

We already know what lured PvE players into WvW- it was the tournament with its achievement points and rewards.

Not sure about this one Absurd. I started playing GW2 after the tournament. What got me into WvW was how dynamic it felt at the time. Like capturing Hills or Garri or Bay was never done the same way twice in the same day. However, it feels like now that its lost that dynamic feel, while HoT maps seem to have it with DS (choose a different lane for each run), and VB choose a different camp, etc. are now.

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Posted by: Vieux P.1238

Vieux P.1238

Why are you guys making long comments on the op’s question when just answering (The game is on the road of the dying mmo’s) anoth?

Does long comments are boring to read & i just skip it after the second line.