Guild Wars 2

I apologize if this topic has been brought up before in multiple threads as I am sure ( and too lazy to search for) it has.

But with all the polls and dev talk about additional changes in WvW one I have always thought made sense was to treat WvW players like sPvP players are now in gear and build options.

The “meta” changes so often and ascended gear is very expensive to make. As it is now I have to PvE in my WvW gear or visa versa.

Maybe there is a reason that is not apparent to me (other than just an monetary one) that this is not practical. But it seems to make sense.

On another note…. a QOL change that I have always wanted and seems to me would be very easy to implement is the shortening of enemy player name tags. It is very hard to determine numbers in a group or to hide around a corner when your tag is sticking out like a 20 foot billboard hanging over your head…. I know it is in the QOL proposed changes….just giving my +1 and hoping it could be done sooner rather than later.

Yea I agree but on the other hand build optimization has always been a very important factor in WvW and if they suddenly changed the system to PvP template I imagine I’d be pretty kittened just because I’ve sunk so much time and effort into obtaining ascended sets and having multiple sets for my main, and so would many others. Perhaps if they refunded some costs back to the players.

Yeah, I would like the enemy names shortened too.

As about PvP gear/builds in WvW, I dunno. There is no real reason for WvW to use PvE stats and gear. Maybe it was considered endgame for all the PvE players earlier so the ONLY reason you actually wanted all these ascended stuff was to get stronger in WvW. Since all the PvE content was easy enough to never bother with anything above exotics. I think it has now reached state where so many WvW players have crafted so many ascended and legendary items by wasting so much time and gold that any change would be fiercely opposed.

Do not pigeonhole wvw. Wvw requires tank builds which are not allowed in pvp. Pvp with locked builds feels more like a mini game than anything else. Honestly once you know your way around in wvw it is more balanced than pvp right now.

No because WvWvW is endgame for a lot people. Or else Anet would need to eliminate the links between WvWvW and PvE completely, no leveling, hero point unlocks etc and I don’t think they’re about to do that. A lot of the people making ascended are WvWvW players and the gold sink of a crafting system would probably go down in flames.

2 short answers :
– actual build give a lot more diversity
– actual build cost a lot of gold and force players to do some pve, and maybe allow anet to sell some gems.

lol and we would see one viable build for each class? no please, as i only play DH on WvW and i would not like to be forced to use bow/trap awfull skillset.

Forced to play gimmick metas? no please, i like build variation makes game clever and fun in some way, not who plays best at the gimmick.

WvW would be in worse state if was changed to use spvp trinkets system.

A seriously QoL would be making the game less aoe’ish, more clever play more know who and how to team spike/gank etc.

Certain runes and foods, should be toned down perhaps. Like how they removed durability runes from spvp, certain condi and boon duration food, which can be a crutch. Otherwise wve just needs better balance, less power creep, or you could just build more tanky tbh.

Separating some skills effects like revenant taunt from over is fine. Do not separate any aspect other than skills that need to be changed slightly for wvw play.

I didn’t mean to suggest it would be an exact mirror of the sPvP builds and gear options. Just that you could change your gear stats and everyone would have access to the same level of gear and specializations.

I see people complain about “rally- bots” and up levels in WvW. If like sPvP everyone was on an even level with access specializations and ascended level stats then that would not be an issue.

It wouldn’t be cookie cutter gimmick builds only..(those exist in WvW already anyway)…but would give my warrior the option of running a roaming build one day and a front line zerg build the next without having to make multiple sets of ascended gear. I have 11- 80 characters which is one of each class plus….I just can’t do BiS gear for each toon and each possible build..

I get that it is a way for Anet to make money and I don’t begrudge any business a chance to make a profit.

Maybe just let us change stats on ascended gear at a reasonable cost…and let us swap runes and sigils.

Or even just charge a fee each time or something so it is not a major operation every time I want to change my role on my toon in WvW.

The real issue is one of access opportunities. Previously, for example, you could have played only PvP and never gotten a toon to level 80 in PvE, never gotten a legendary weapon, etc. Anet is doing the right thing by starting to provide access in WvW for PvE stuff to players who are playing only WvW.

It’s a great idea, in theory, but I have no idea how to make it happen without turning it into a huge ball of cow manure for a lot of the existing WvW players.

Personally I’d like to see a similar build system to PVP, but with a 2 or 3 split on the amulets, so we could get some different stat combos. But I’ve read enough threads about this to know that a lot of players hate the PVP builds very much, and love being able to tweak every last minor stat, and food etc.

I think another interesting idea is to actually change how builds work in the entire game (technically not in PVP), linking all the stats up to the trinkets only. Let weapon only give damage and sigil, and armor only give armor + runes. So you could change the stats entirely by just changing trinkets. (And preferably also have a selectable option for sigils and runes on weapons/armors as well, somehow).

It would give us a similar function without invalidating most gear, and not having to mess with skins/runes/sigils so much when changing builds around.

*Sits down with popcorn and swat-riot-armor*

Simple because WvW is GW2’s answer to open-world pvp. Though I would love that there is a option to place WvW armor instead of having to re-equip an armor everytime I go in.

“The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world PvP, and while it isn’t ‘true’ open world PvP for more PvP purists, it does contain many of the elements that make world PvP so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world PvP.” — Mike Ferguson

joneirikb.7506:

Personally I’d like to see a similar build system to PVP, but with a 2 or 3 split on the amulets, so we could get some different stat combos. But I’ve read enough threads about this to know that a lot of players hate the PVP builds very much, and love being able to tweak every last minor stat, and food etc.

I think another interesting idea is to actually change how builds work in the entire game (technically not in PVP), linking all the stats up to the trinkets only. Let weapon only give damage and sigil, and armor only give armor + runes. So you could change the stats entirely by just changing trinkets. (And preferably also have a selectable option for sigils and runes on weapons/armors as well, somehow).

It would give us a similar function without invalidating most gear, and not having to mess with skins/runes/sigils so much when changing builds around.

Sits down with popcorn and swat-riot-armor

Great idea.. for GW3

The day this gets implemented is the day i destroy all my ascended gear with a smile.

No. Just no. Terrible idea. Usually brought up by spvp players who suddenly realise their pigeon hole build with trinket gets wrecked in wvw where build diversity still exists.

Why do these pigeon holers keep trying to push this terrible idea? Learn to think about your build, get the right foods, craft the right equipments and get on with enjoying the freedom that wvw has.

There’s a reason a lot of wvw players won’t go near spvp- build diversity. Don’t go restricting our choice because you can’t work out how to play the game and use a cookie cutter meta build from spvp forums.

Because you need to satisfy players who want the superiority by using OP gear and builds.

The average WvWers have a much lower skill level than average PvPers from my experience. You have a good chance to win a lot of outnumber encounters by using a strong build/gear/food combination.

To be honest in 99% of all fights the difference between being full ascended and full exotic isn’t going to be a deciding factor.

What I do think needs addressing is accessibility to different stat combinations. Currently you cannot get ascended trinkets of the new stat combos in WvW, they are locked behind PvE raids.
Armour and weapons are not so bad now that prices of things like black diamonds and ebony orbs have come down but maguuma lily is still horrifically expensive.
New runes though…not very accessible either for people who don’t PvE much though map currencies are slightly better in HoT maps.

Updating the badges weapon and armour vendor with all stat combos in the base game would go a long way to sorting this out. Then add a HoT vendor who sells weapons and armour with the HoT stats.

STIHL.2489:

joneirikb.7506:

Personally I’d like to see a similar build system to PVP, but with a 2 or 3 split on the amulets, so we could get some different stat combos. But I’ve read enough threads about this to know that a lot of players hate the PVP builds very much, and love being able to tweak every last minor stat, and food etc.

I think another interesting idea is to actually change how builds work in the entire game (technically not in PVP), linking all the stats up to the trinkets only. Let weapon only give damage and sigil, and armor only give armor + runes. So you could change the stats entirely by just changing trinkets. (And preferably also have a selectable option for sigils and runes on weapons/armors as well, somehow).

It would give us a similar function without invalidating most gear, and not having to mess with skins/runes/sigils so much when changing builds around.

Sits down with popcorn and swat-riot-armor

Great idea.. for GW3

Hmm, this is actually a smaller change than the june2015 trait change, so seems a bit far fetched for a 3rd game installment :p

sPvP is an “esport” and therefore requires a way to regulate the builds.
WvW isn’t an “esport” nor is it sPvP. You will also find that racial skills are disabled in PvP but not in WvW.
sPvP and WvW are both PvP type game modes but they are not the same and therefore should not be treated the same.

sPvP is an “esport” and therefore requires a way to regulate the builds.
WvW isn’t an “esport” nor is it sPvP. You will also find that racial skills are disabled in PvP but not in WvW.
sPvP and WvW are both PvP type game modes but they are not the same and therefore should not be treated the same.

apharma.3741:

To be honest in 99% of all fights the difference between being full ascended and full exotic isn’t going to be a deciding factor.

What I do think needs addressing is accessibility to different stat combinations. Currently you cannot get ascended trinkets of the new stat combos in WvW, they are locked behind PvE raids.
Armour and weapons are not so bad now that prices of things like black diamonds and ebony orbs have come down but maguuma lily is still horrifically expensive.
New runes though…not very accessible either for people who don’t PvE much though map currencies are slightly better in HoT maps.

Updating the badges weapon and armour vendor with all stat combos in the base game would go a long way to sorting this out. Then add a HoT vendor who sells weapons and armour with the HoT stats.

That would involve some programming for wvw, so not very likely to happen. I have to admit to not even bothering to find out the new runes etc as the liklihood of me doing enough pve to get them is zero.

Well they could allow for ascended to change stats on the fly, like legendaries. Ow and even allow for different build templates to be saved and swapped instantly. That way every account would be complete with just 3 different armor sets, 1 or 2 of each different weapon, and 1 set of trinkets. Extra armour would still be usefull to avoid the need to transfer the full set when we would like to play another character, but not a requirement. Also another window could allow to swap sigils and runes for each wvw template (WvW exclusive of course). I would expect a major hit to the game economy after that and a big reduction to anets income, which is also the reason they wont ever do smth like that :P

<<Stops dreaming.>>

PS: Also a ton of complains. Because we are selfish and arrogant and don’t want every1 to get what we have

With the current state of population imbalances in WvW, I can’t see this being a high-priority issue. Doesn’t matter if my side has Ascended, Legendary or Exotic when we’re outnumbered on 3 out of 4 maps during prime time this last weekend.

No way. PvP is designed for an even playing field, and it’s a great idea. WvW provides an end game for those of us who don’t want to PVE. If someone spends the time and gold required to get ascended gear, they should be rewarded, even if the advantage is slight. It’s not like it’s impossible to win in exotic gear, like it might be in other games if you don’t have the very best. The option to obtain ascended gear gives players the ability to stack stats as they see fit and to strive for that extra 1% stat advantage if they so desire.

Someone above nailed it… WvW is end game for a lot of players. Also the gear is something to work towards. Now with reward tracks and gold from dailies gearing up is much easier.

As mentioned even if they wanted to change it, backing out now would alienate the players that have spent near countless hours acquiring gear.

That said if EotM had sPvP amulets, I wouldn’t complain. I like having a playground to test builds. sPvP is close but some builds do not translate well into WvW.

I would legit quit the game if they changed WvW to use PvP style amulet. I’ve spent so much time and money on my ascended gear and so much more time on theory crafting builds that require several different kinds of armor to meet certain numbers.

Changing WvW to be like PvP builds would be a slap in the face to so many people who don’t even like to do PvE, but did it just to obtain Ascended armor/weapons, only to rip that away from us and make it useless to us since we don’t really want to do PvE anyway.

No thanks, worst idea I’ve heard since Golem week.

Krash.9486:

I apologize if this topic has been brought up before in multiple threads as I am sure ( and too lazy to search for) it has.

But with all the polls and dev talk about additional changes in WvW one I have always thought made sense was to treat WvW players like sPvP players are now in gear and build options.

The “meta” changes so often and ascended gear is very expensive to make. As it is now I have to PvE in my WvW gear or visa versa.

Maybe there is a reason that is not apparent to me (other than just an monetary one) that this is not practical. But it seems to make sense.

On another note…. a QOL change that I have always wanted and seems to me would be very easy to implement is the shortening of enemy player name tags. It is very hard to determine numbers in a group or to hide around a corner when your tag is sticking out like a 20 foot billboard hanging over your head…. I know it is in the QOL proposed changes….just giving my +1 and hoping it could be done sooner rather than later.

Because variety is the spice of life. I kinda hate SPVP exactly and precisely cause of the lack of build options there which are present in WVW and I am not alone.

sPvP is the place for completely balanced playing fields. WvW is for what can you do to max your toon to your playstyle and gain as much edge for yourself as you can. sPvP is for 5 v 5. WvW is anything goes.

the build optimizations for WvW are vastly superior to the cookie-cutter builds you see in sPvP.

Also sPvP builds are balanced around 5v5, but in WvW you will often go up against greater numbers and will need to change your build accordingly.

Can’t add much to anything said here but a bit more weight against this idea. I see it more as a complaint against having to get geared, but the variability you see with armor sets adds much more flavor and complexity to the game. WvWvW is an open-world game mode, and adding pre-defined stat distros would basically ruin it.

FogLeg.9354:

Yeah, I would like the enemy names shortened too.

Finally someone suggests this, when I see a huge group of enemies all I see is a big blob of text.

I will post this video since he talks about WvW standard stats and items and why these would improve WvW. I really think this needs to be done:

https://youtu.be/lMoY-_-8Nt0?t=440

FogLeg.9354:

I will post this video since he talks about WvW standard stats and items and why these would improve WvW. I really think this needs to be done:

https://youtu.be/lMoY-_-8Nt0?t=440

After watching this, I cannot fathom why you’d remove a gold sink for virtually no reason. If anything you should be making all stats readily available without having to do raids/PVE. WvW has options, this is what makes it more interesting to a large potion of players.

Krash.9486:

…

Making builds work like sPvP is not a good idea. I’d rather see templates with our armor, weapons, trinkets, utilities and so on saved with the ability to name these templates. That way we get to keep our build diversity whilst not losing time nor bag space.

Does the above mean that legendaries would be less worth it? Not at all, if handled with logic and it’s very own restrictions ( maximum 4 templates per acc / toon / whatever you can come up with for balance sake).

Half our builds are already being saved in WvW. Surely Anet has plans to bring forth such a feature? Or not? Time will tell …

No thanks.

/15 characters.

psizone.8437:

No thanks.

/15 characters.

All 15 have a specific role or do they all carry multiple armor sets that allow you to swap their role “on the fly”?

ITT: people with durability runes and other unbalanced crap crying about how it would cause 1-meta build only like in sPvP. As if we don’t have 1, max 2 cheeese cookei cutter builds per class already. The only thing that will come out is a better balance and skill will matter more. There’s no need to be exactly 1:1 with sPvP. Having some customization over trinkets is fine.
If this can’t happen I’d b e happy if they disable certain runes and foods.

Bigsexy.8302:

ITT: people with durability runes and other unbalanced crap crying about how it would cause 1-meta build only like in sPvP. As if we don’t have 1, max 2 cheeese cookei cutter builds per class already. The only thing that will come out is a better balance and skill will matter more. There’s no need to be exactly 1:1 with sPvP. Having some customization over trinkets is fine.
If this can’t happen I’d b e happy if they disable certain runes and foods.

Runes aren’t the issue main issue, the lack of traitline viability and underpowered utilities is.

Until weak traitlines and utilities are brought in line with the commonly used ones we’ll continue having one to two “meta” builds running rampant in WvW (and other game modes).

That said, there are a lot of trash Runes in the game that could do with an update, but they’re not the main reason the build diversity sucks right now.

psizone.8437:

Bigsexy.8302:

ITT: people with durability runes and other unbalanced crap crying about how it would cause 1-meta build only like in sPvP. As if we don’t have 1, max 2 cheeese cookei cutter builds per class already. The only thing that will come out is a better balance and skill will matter more. There’s no need to be exactly 1:1 with sPvP. Having some customization over trinkets is fine.
If this can’t happen I’d b e happy if they disable certain runes and foods.

Runes aren’t the issue main issue, the lack of traitline viability and underpowered utilities is.

Until weak traitlines and utilities are brought in line with the commonly used ones we’ll continue having one to two “meta” builds running rampant in WvW (and other game modes).

That said, there are a lot of trash Runes in the game that could do with an update, but they’re not the main reason the build diversity sucks right now.

Didn’t say runes are the issue for the limited builds, but if WvW gearing works like in sPvP then certain overpowered runes will be removed. People who get carried obviously don’t like the idea and bring ridiculous statements like “it will hurt the build diversity”. There’s no diversity. The number of viable builds halved when they reworked the traits. And halved one more time with HoT. Only sigils vary.
And the thing is, with flexible skill system like in GW2 that allows build variety(on theory) it’s really hard to balance. It’s much easier for Anet to keep lots of trash traits and few goods ones.
I’d prefer to have pre-defined classes and some kind of balance that what is it atm.

Hey guys I talk about this in my latest video check it out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMoY-_-8Nt0

Bigsexy.8302:

Didn’t say runes are the issue for the limited builds, but if WvW gearing works like in sPvP then certain overpowered runes will be removed. People who get carried obviously don’t like the idea and bring ridiculous statements like “it will hurt the build diversity”. There’s no diversity. The number of viable builds halved when they reworked the traits. And halved one more time with HoT. Only sigils vary.
And the thing is, with flexible skill system like in GW2 that allows build variety(on theory) it’s really hard to balance. It’s much easier for Anet to keep lots of trash traits and few goods ones.
I’d prefer to have pre-defined classes and some kind of balance that what is it atm.

If gearing worked like sPvP then WvW would lose its “endgame” charm.

“People who get carried…” Makes you sound very bitter and ruins your argument, not everyone runs “overpowered runes” will disagree with the change, and vice versa. What people run has absolutely no effect on how they view this issue.

The fact is, the game HAS a lot of trash traits and utilities and if Anet didn’t want to make an attempt to balance them then they’re in the wrong market for game development. They have been and will continue to make changes and eventually it will get to a more balanced state, swapping to an sPvP style build system will not change that.

psizone.8437:

Bigsexy.8302:

Didn’t say runes are the issue for the limited builds, but if WvW gearing works like in sPvP then certain overpowered runes will be removed. People who get carried obviously don’t like the idea and bring ridiculous statements like “it will hurt the build diversity”. There’s no diversity. The number of viable builds halved when they reworked the traits. And halved one more time with HoT. Only sigils vary.
And the thing is, with flexible skill system like in GW2 that allows build variety(on theory) it’s really hard to balance. It’s much easier for Anet to keep lots of trash traits and few goods ones.
I’d prefer to have pre-defined classes and some kind of balance that what is it atm.

If gearing worked like sPvP then WvW would lose its “endgame” charm.

“People who get carried…” Makes you sound very bitter and ruins your argument, not everyone runs “overpowered runes” will disagree with the change, and vice versa. What people run has absolutely no effect on how they view this issue.

The fact is, the game HAS a lot of trash traits and utilities and if Anet didn’t want to make an attempt to balance them then they’re in the wrong market for game development. They have been and will continue to make changes and eventually it will get to a more balanced state, swapping to an sPvP style build system will not change that.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

So much for build diversity and balance in sPvP only 6 builds are even meta and to top it off, only 6 classes are meta meaning one build per each of those six classes out of nine classes.

Let me tell you a secret in WvW when not being a zergling I have 3 builds on my druid, 3 builds on my Chrono, 2 builds on my Tempest, 2 bulds on my Berserker, 2 builds on my Reaper, 1 build from normal Necro, 2 builds from Herald, 2 builds from Scrapper, 1 build from normal Engi, and 1 build from DH that just I myself can run and be considered “Meta” for me that will if not kill many will give alot of WvWvW roamers a good run for their money. This is not even talking about my guild’s group “Meta” builds which is very different from other guilds in the game mode.

In conclusion, I am very sorry that some people either can’t or will not use their brains that they was borne with. But making my good selection of personal “Meta WvW builds” into the PvP kitting either you are running the few builds and classes that others have easily min-maxed out with or you are at a disadvantage at the get go. Yeah no thank you if WvW became that I’d uninstall GW2 asap, because that’s why me and others don’t play sPvP.

So yes to the OP my suggestion is to stay in your mostly brain dead sPvP mode and not come to WvW if you can’t or will not use your head to min-max for “Your personal play-style.” Because in WvW we have a load of personal play-styles and guild play-styles that are viable, and not just 6 builds that have been min-maxed as meta because loads stats, runes, sigils and food combos are off limits.

I like personal meta over a overlord predetermined meta to rule this game and if sPvP got that I’d gladly return to sPvP for a bit.

Like said here trait lines and skill need to be balanced.

To those of you that like the "build diversity" in WvW, what if they added the sPvP builds for the auto level to 80, set exotic stats, selectable sigils and runes etc. And selectable stats on all items ?

So you can go through a list and selec stats for: weapon, helm, shoulders, chest, hands, legs, feet, backpack, amulet, ring x2, accessory x2 ?

Would you still hate it ? You’d gain the ability to swap sigils, runes, stats etc on the fly. You wouldn’t need to level or buy gear to get to 80, the only thing is that it would limit you to Exotic level.

Personally I think that is way too many sliders to click, and would prefer something like a 2 or 3 way split of the pvp amulet, so you could pick something like Soldier+Zerk or Knight+Zerk+Cleric or whatever for my guardian for ex.

ANet should design sPvP Maps that would allow 360 vs 360 numbers of players to attack each other.

Why can’t sPvP have Maps that allow for zerg like numbers to fight in?

Keep the sPvP Mechanics there, but allow players to fight on maps that encourage epic fights in the sPvP game mode.

Edit – @OP

You should post this in the sPvP Forum & ask for sPvP Maps that can host epic battles instead.

It makes better sense to do it for the sPvP Game Mode instead…based on what you’re asking for.

WvW is more dynamic than SPvP. Gear choices, builds, etc etc are meant to be all over the place. And you are encouraged to upgrade your gear through crafting, pve, pvp, etc etc. I don’t have a problem with this.

Gearing up is meant to be important (and take effort) in WvW.

And although ascended is nice, it isn’t strictly necessary. I only have ascended on my main account. On my alt accounts the toons only run with exotic armor / weapons (ascended trinkets) and do just fine in WvW. Those alt accounts are a lot of fun because testing new builds doesn’t take a lot of gold or time.

We need to cut out the developer “hand holding” as much as possible. WvW needs more sandbox and less “control box”.

It’s bad enough that devs… refuse to balance pvp and pve modes separately, force meta changes instead of working on and adding skills, did not add new skills regularly as mentioned, do not rework the cc and stealth systems, do not make efforts to bring us better and more defined roles to build and play within professions, remove amulets in spvp instead of digging back into professions, manually have to shift server alliances and control scoring…

We don’t need to devalue wvw and wvw rewards anymore than they already are by implementing a generic gear and build system.

All players can manage with exotic gear and build up Ascended over time, so do it like the rest of us.

joneirikb.7506:

To those of you that like the “build diversity” in WvW, what if they added the sPvP builds for the auto level to 80, set exotic stats, selectable sigils and runes etc. And selectable stats on all items ?

So you can go through a list and selec stats for: weapon, helm, shoulders, chest, hands, legs, feet, backpack, amulet, ring x2, accessory x2 ?

Would you still hate it ? You’d gain the ability to swap sigils, runes, stats etc on the fly. You wouldn’t need to level or buy gear to get to 80, the only thing is that it would limit you to Exotic level.

I’d still hate it.

We have Legendary weapons, a backpiece and soon Armour that we can swap stats on currently and changing sigils and runes isn’t too much of a hastle. Getting the gear is part of the fun, especially if I don’t have to farm PvE for it. Once we get WvW specific Legendary gear, it’ll be even better.

All we actually need is the ability to purchase ALL stat choices in the WvW vendor (make the HoT stuff cost more if need be) and update the laurel merchants Ascended trinkets. Maybe allow us to purchase or earn Runes and Sigils without having to farm for them in PvE. This way we don’t need a new system built that many would dislike and all Anet would need to do is update some vendors.

NO because what i hate the most about the PvP template system is that it is so inflexible.

Especially for my Guardian which is low tier in PvP but is much better in WvW since i can build enough Vitality to keep it alive but also have great dps.

Having said that the fact that PVP has limited gear options and is then used by the balance team to balance the classes which can have a disproportionate effect on WvW class balance where stats are not limited by amulets.