Guild Wars 2

General Belisarius.2548:

Repair costs are basically nothing and its incentive to not die and to work as a team. You make your repairs in a single event

It’s an incentive to work as a zerg, which is not the same as working as a team.

in a way it’s a rhetorical question because i know the play styles and classes involved. plus i’m not too sure but there was a change to put bags by the feet of ranged, or was it just siege. if true it would further the “reward the no-risk playstyle the most (and pve)” design philosophy of anet.

is it not? I disagree. Zerging requires skill, formation, working together, communication, and a commander that is respected and talented in what he does. it’s like how people complain about wp costs that are almost nothing. just do an event or kill a vet or two and you’ve made your costs.

Fortus.6175:

razor.5690:

If i were you I would look at your build in WvW. I dont see any need to die 24/7 even if you are solo roaming, just don’t be to aggresive. WvW follows the same as PvE in the rewards, and lvling and what not, of course there should be a repair cost.

ok, i might be slightly exaggerating when I say 24/7 , but the point is there, I die more often than not in most encounters that involve a thief, or a mesmer. But that aside, I like to play guardian in-your-face kind of thing, and being on in WvW is fun, minus the part where at the end of 2 tower sieges I have to go back and repair 80% of my equipment. I ddi my job to protect everyone, heal them, and Im rewarded with having to run back, having to pay not only with my life , but with the few coins I made?! No, thats unfair, either give guardians a 1200 range weapon, or eliminate costs!

You do have a 1200 range weapon, scepter.

General Belisarius.2548:

is it not? I disagree. Zerging requires skill, formation, working together, communication, and a commander that is respected and talented in what he does. it’s like how people complain about wp costs that are almost nothing. just do an event or kill a vet or two and you’ve made your costs.

No, it requires one person doing all that and a laggy amalgam of thoughtless auto-attack spammers to follow him.

wolfie.7296:

in a way it’s a rhetorical question because i know the play styles and classes involved. plus i’m not too sure but there was a change to put bags by the feet of ranged, or was it just siege. if true it would further the “reward the no-risk playstyle the most (and pve)” design philosophy of anet.

It’s clear you are frustrated with WvW at the moment but try and contain yourself. Your negative comments are not helping anything and I believe most of them are sadly mistaken anyways. The masses in this thread have agreed that repair costs are very minuscule. Especially now that you can purchase re-sellable blueprints with badges. If you are steadily losing money in WvW, you are doing it wrong.

Personally, I’ve played both melee and ranged classes and I have found that ranged classes do indeed get more bags, but I’ve also found that ranged classes are harder. Yes, I said harder. Especially when fighting opponents who know what the term “flank” means.

If we are complaining, how about I complain that there are no melee siege weapons. After all, melee classes can build ranged siege and get the best of both worlds, whereas ranged classes are always stuck as being ranged. I’m being sarcastic in case you didn’t notice. There is no reason to complain, so please calm yourself and stop.

MightyMicah.7451:

If

No, you are wrong. It’s not a simple matter of losing gold. It’s simply not as efficient making it as other no-risk classes who benefit from using you the melee as a buffer to attack. In the same way Wvw and other Pvp is unrewarding compared with Pve There is a big difference. So it is you who are mistaken not me and there is definitely a reason to complain if you want to put it like that.

What is the big deal with paying repair costs 2 or 3 times a week? Big deal.

wolfie.7296:

Solo.9027:

Vol.5241:

It’s a gold sink.

Only if you’re bad.

Please state your class and your playstyle. eg. if you turn tail while the front line dies at every opportunity and use others as shields for own advancement.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

wolfie.7296:

MightyMicah.7451:

If

No, you are wrong. It’s not a simple matter of losing gold. It’s simply not as efficient making it as other no-risk classes who benefit from using you the melee as a buffer to attack. In the same way Wvw and other Pvp is unrewarding compared with Pve There is a big difference. So it is you who are mistaken not me and there is definitely a reason to complain if you want to put it like that.

No I am not wrong. I was addressing the exact thing that you complained about and now you have changed your complaints. No class will lose gold in WvW if they know how to play the game correctly. I’m using the classic “learn to play” argument, here. You are wrong about “no-risk classes.” Every class is going to be at risk. I believe your statements about ranged classes implies that you only play melee classes and are ignorant as to how to defeat a ranged class. Again, learn to play your class.

I believe you are right that WvW is not as efficient as dungeon farming but duh! Dungeons are supposed to rake in the big doe. They are dungeons. That’s what they do. As far as roaming the world in pve goes, I make much more money in WvW than doing that even on my melee classes. So again I say to you, learn to play and stop complaining.

covenn.7165:

What is the big deal with paying repair costs 2 or 3 times a week? Big deal.

If you only take a couple of trips to the repair in a week, you can’t be doing much WvW (or are you suggesting you’re that good? [roll-eyes])

Anyway, I side with the OP on this. WvW is a big enough gold sink as it is and the repair costs are out of proportion to other aspects of the game.
A WvW player expects to die far more often than a PvE player. It’s only by being utterly careless that you get killed in PvE. Enemies don’t lay traps and lie in wait or suddenly leap on top of you by the dozens.

So yes – but it won’t happen.

I too did not see the big deal with repair costs. But apparently, it is a reason that a lot of people do not go into WvW. There’s a thread about why PvEers do not play and this is one of the top reasons. I know many of my friends say this too – and they are estatic when we get the outmanned buff.

Maybe the top tiers don’t care since they have queues. But getting people into WvW is a big deal for the lower tiers and it would help immensly if more people would come out and play.

People who are saying thakittens not hard to earn gold in WvW have to realize that compared to PvE, yes it is. You simply do not earn as much in WvW as you do in PvE. And yes, different playstyles earn different levels of gold.

Maybe they could make a losing buff too. If you’re losing the match, you don’t have to pay repair costs. Or if there’s no queue on a map, you don’t have to pay repair costs. I don’t know, I just want to encourage more people to come in and play WvW.

It’s a combination of poor loot + repair costs. In PvE, repair costs are trivial due to the amount of vendor junk piling up. WvW can be a lot more unreliable depending on how well your server is doing and a lot of wvw players probably don’t bank gold from elsewhere.

I’d imagine is worse for the non-karma trainers, and you wonder why pugs just head for the biggest fights.

And then those structure upgrades cost a pretty penny too.

aw well, thread died cuz it got moved to another dead sub-forum, oh well, at least one day after 4 years anet might go over these forums and see my thread, and realize that some people would like to have the discussions on forums that matter. Anyways, until they fix the income/sink problem with WvW and the balance issue I wont be stepping on WvW in any serious manner any day, my server, GoM will continue being 20th rating or lower because everyone is on the same deal as me; zerging is not fun, getting zerged is not fun, spending money in repairs, upgrades and having no way to get it back is not fun, feeling like a drop of melee tear in an endless sea of 1200tsunamis is not fun. Im out

Fortus.6175:

aw well, thread died cuz it got moved to another dead sub-forum, oh well, at least one day after 4 years anet might go over these forums and see my thread, and realize that some people would like to have the discussions on forums that matter. Anyways, until they fix the income/sink problem with WvW and the balance issue I wont be stepping on WvW in any serious manner any day, my server, GoM will continue being 20th rating or lower because everyone is on the same deal as me; zerging is not fun, getting zerged is not fun, spending money in repairs, upgrades and having no way to get it back is not fun, feeling like a drop of melee tear in an endless sea of 1200tsunamis is not fun. Im out

Swap servers bro. I promise you it’s much more worth it at least on my server.

General Belisarius.2548:

Repair costs are basically nothing and its incentive to not die and to work as a team. You make your repairs in a single event

They’re either “nothing” or an incentive not to die, make up your mind. If they truly are “basically nothing” then they wouldn’t function as an incentive.

Wait only reason to go there is to have fun? You don’t say? You mean like the entire poit of every game ever? That’s why we do it, it’s quite fun, also with rank chests now if your only making that much you have a serious problem

I don’t see a need to have repair costs in general.

I could see it if there was a broken beyond repair mechanic, or various repair vendors have different skill with some repairs being exceptional while others are just a cheap repair, but there isn’t so I don’t see the need to have repairs at all.

it’s not like u have to repair every 5 min or you must be doing something terribly wrong. repair costs arent that high if u compare it with the money u tak in when cping something or killing a zerg

Fortus.6175:

I usually have to go outside WvW to go gather stuff to be able to pay for my 40 silver spent in repairs for the day, since I dont get to tag too much, my net gain there is sometimes not even 15 silver a day

Not trolling you, but you’re doing something wrong.

Repairing mean you die a lot. Fix that problem, and there’s no repair bill.

It’s interesting we should be having this conversation about making money in WvW because just today I looted a berserker’s mask which made me 8 gold. Clearly WvW isn’t quite as useless as people think for making money…

I remember before this game was released that they didnt use the durability system of WoW (You took armor damage merely from taking damage) in favor of the curren. System because if you are good then you won’t die much if at all.

Therefore, if you are skilled then you won’t be dying much, and won’t be punished with armor repairs.

TL;DR Get better and don’t die.

Oh well, hey, thanks for the oh so helpful advice. If I was “skilled” the 2 of us could have held that keep. If I was “skilled” I wouldn’t have been chainpulled off the cannon twice. If I were “skilled” I wouldn’t have died 2 more times trying to get back in. If I were “skilled” I wouldn’t have lost 2g or so for the loss of a keep I fully upgraded and escorted yaks to for “phat profits”

Obviously, that mob of people is far more skilled than I. I wasn’t able to get out of downed state as fast as 20 of them insta rezzing. Im so bad at this game. Gosh.

And where was our Zergball.. I dunno. Probably running a bag and karma train, just like this zerg. This is not even a rare incident, it is all too common. I’ve screamed for help in fully upgraded, waypointed keeps and had 3 people come, losing them as well.

Bottom Line.. the people that do the thankless stuff, for their server, don’t make gold. They die the most. They get the least. Skill has nothing to do with it. Armor repairs just add more coin drain vs little income or incentive.

But thanks.. I already know I’m “doing it wrong” You all just punctuated that fact.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Oh well, hey, thanks for the oh so helpful advice. If I was “skilled” the 2 of us could have held that keep. If I was “skilled” I wouldn’t have been chainpulled off the cannon twice. If I were “skilled” I wouldn’t have died 2 more times trying to get back in. If I were “skilled” I wouldn’t have lost 2g or so for the loss of a keep I fully upgraded and escorted yaks to for “phat profits”

Obviously, that mob of people is far more skilled than I. I wasn’t able to get out of downed state as fast as 20 of them insta rezzing. Im so bad at this game. Gosh.

And where was our Zergball.. I dunno. Probably running a bag and karma train, just like this zerg. This is not even a rare incident, it is all too common. I’ve screamed for help in fully upgraded, waypointed keeps and had 3 people come, losing them as well.

Bottom Line.. the people that do the thankless stuff, for their server, don’t make gold. They die the most. They get the least. Skill has nothing to do with it. Armor repairs just add more coin drain vs little income or incentive.

But thanks.. I already know I’m “doing it wrong” You all just punctuated that fact.

Well darn. Better complain to anet that you tried to fight a zerg and died

I guess I’m a pretty average player. I know what I’m doing. I use TS when it’s active. I know what ‘stack’ means and I know how to use my skills.

In the average day, (I start around 7am and fight on and off until maybe 8pm, maybe 3-4 hours in all) I die maybe 20 times.
As for gold – I dunno, probably I make 50 silver on an average day so the repair cost takes about half of that.

If I had a bit more left over, I’d use it on upgrades maybe but right now I’m still trying to build up my bank account after equipping my third lvl 80. It’s slow going.

My objection to repair costs is that it’s just a waste: a gold sink. If I could actually afford to use the gold in some productive way in WvW instead, it would make me happier.

Archon.6481:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Oh well, hey, thanks for the oh so helpful advice. If I was “skilled” the 2 of us could have held that keep. If I was “skilled” I wouldn’t have been chainpulled off the cannon twice. If I were “skilled” I wouldn’t have died 2 more times trying to get back in. If I were “skilled” I wouldn’t have lost 2g or so for the loss of a keep I fully upgraded and escorted yaks to for “phat profits”

Obviously, that mob of people is far more skilled than I. I wasn’t able to get out of downed state as fast as 20 of them insta rezzing. Im so bad at this game. Gosh.

And where was our Zergball.. I dunno. Probably running a bag and karma train, just like this zerg. This is not even a rare incident, it is all too common. I’ve screamed for help in fully upgraded, waypointed keeps and had 3 people come, losing them as well.

Bottom Line.. the people that do the thankless stuff, for their server, don’t make gold. They die the most. They get the least. Skill has nothing to do with it. Armor repairs just add more coin drain vs little income or incentive.

But thanks.. I already know I’m “doing it wrong” You all just punctuated that fact.

Well darn. Better complain to anet that you tried to fight a zerg and died

Oh, I’m sorry, we contest keeps, towers, camps if we can,even a few vs the zergs. I guess in the lower tiers you just WP out rather than trying? Ok. Um, thanks for the tip.

You missed the point btw, but I’m done trying to make it.

Tom Gore.4035:

If you think money is the reason people run in the zergball you need to take a reality check.

Karma and WxP.. Everyone knows that WvW isn’t for making money (in the contrary, it’s a sink)..

MightyMicah.7451:

It’s interesting we should be having this conversation about making money in WvW because just today I looted a berserker’s mask which made me 8 gold. Clearly WvW isn’t quite as useless as people think for making money…

well 5 rares a week and maybe 1 exotic in 2 weeks is not enough fortifying costs 1.5 g and then there is food and superior siege and traps ….

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Archon.6481:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Oh well, hey, thanks for the oh so helpful advice. If I was “skilled” the 2 of us could have held that keep. If I was “skilled” I wouldn’t have been chainpulled off the cannon twice. If I were “skilled” I wouldn’t have died 2 more times trying to get back in. If I were “skilled” I wouldn’t have lost 2g or so for the loss of a keep I fully upgraded and escorted yaks to for “phat profits”

Obviously, that mob of people is far more skilled than I. I wasn’t able to get out of downed state as fast as 20 of them insta rezzing. Im so bad at this game. Gosh.

And where was our Zergball.. I dunno. Probably running a bag and karma train, just like this zerg. This is not even a rare incident, it is all too common. I’ve screamed for help in fully upgraded, waypointed keeps and had 3 people come, losing them as well.

Bottom Line.. the people that do the thankless stuff, for their server, don’t make gold. They die the most. They get the least. Skill has nothing to do with it. Armor repairs just add more coin drain vs little income or incentive.

But thanks.. I already know I’m “doing it wrong” You all just punctuated that fact.

Well darn. Better complain to anet that you tried to fight a zerg and died

Oh, I’m sorry, we contest keeps, towers, camps if we can,even a few vs the zergs. I guess in the lower tiers you just WP out rather than trying? Ok. Um, thanks for the tip.

You missed the point btw, but I’m done trying to make it.

If I missed the point then you must have portrayed it badly. You fight with 4 people in a fully upgraded keep vs a zerg? You think you can win that? Stop trying to justify yourself wih suicidal behavior, thinking you can take impossible odds. You know what happens in real life? When fighting impossible odds, often the best option is to RETREAT. You are throwing your life away and accomplishing nothing. You can easily run away, but no, you chose to fight and you lost. Get over it.

I run away from zergs all the time. Why? I will die. What did I accomplish in doing so? Nothing. I contest keeps and towers often too. Except I’m situationally aware and don’t do it when there is a zerg right next me. If you choose to contet it anyways, dying (and repair costs) is the price you pay.

I very, VERY rarely die in wvw. And no I never zerg. I always roam because zerging is boring. And since when is T3 low tier? You know what? Why does it even matter? I can bandwagon onto to JQ or TC or DB or BG too. Doesn’t mean I’m any better of a player.

Tom Gore.4035:

If you are losing money in WvW you are doing it wrong. Really wrong.

If you do it “right” you really lose money….

I am gonna guess ole Tommy don’t shell out cash for many upgrades lol….

Tom Gore.4035:

If you are losing money in WvW you are doing it wrong. Really wrong.

Yup, I don’t do any dungeons and have lots of gold coming in each day, just from WvW.

Some tips:
- aoe tag tag tag anything, tag any enemy you see even if downed
- don’t upgrade camps if there is nobody to protect them, it’s a waste of money
- don’t upgrade anything if you’re loosing money in WvW.. there are enough people (commanders) who have tons of gold for that purpose. They area also responsible for protecting the places, so it’s only fair they pay for it. If you don’t plan to stay behind for a few hours with a couple of friends to guard and defend the place, upgrading it means throwing money away. A zerg will take it in few minutes if not guarded.
- dont follow anyone blindly, commanders often underestimate their own forces and lead people to their deaths. A wise warrior knows when a battle can’t be won and retreats to fight another day (and gather the loot bags ^^). Example: If the enemy has 2x more people and is charging you, don’t just stack up, you will die like sheep, if you have less people, you need to be the one flanking with veils, using surprise, then you have a chance vs superior numbers. A thing some ‘stack buff charge’ commanders often forget, and they find themselves wondering why their zerg scatters all over the area.
- don’t die, have multiple ways to survive and get out of the enemy melee train and back into your own people
- press your area loot key often while fighting, to pick up bags as they fall

zerospin.8604:

Tom Gore.4035:

If you are losing money in WvW you are doing it wrong. Really wrong.

Yup, I don’t do any dungeons and have lots of gold coming in each day, just from WvW.

Some tips:
- aoe tag tag tag anything, tag any enemy you see even if downed
- don’t upgrade camps if there is nobody to protect them, it’s a waste of money
- don’t upgrade anything if you’re loosing money in WvW.. there are enough people (commanders) who have tons of gold for that purpose. They area also responsible for protecting the places, so it’s only fair they pay for it. If you don’t plan to stay behind for a few hours with a couple of friends to guard and defend the place, upgrading it means throwing money away. A zerg will take it in few minutes if not guarded.
- dont follow anyone blindly, commanders often underestimate their own forces and lead people to their deaths. A wise warrior knows when a battle can’t be won and retreats to fight another day (and gather the loot bags ^^). Example: If the enemy has 2x more people and is charging you, don’t just stack up, you will die like sheep, if you have less people, you need to be the one flanking with veils, using surprise, then you have a chance vs superior numbers. A thing some ‘stack buff charge’ commanders often forget, and they find themselves wondering why their zerg scatters all over the area.
- don’t die, have multiple ways to survive and get out of the enemy melee train and back into your own people
- press your area loot key often while fighting, to pick up bags as they fall

What is this? A guy who knows how to play WvW is on the forums? Remarkable! You, sir, deserve a prize! +1

Many casual pve players play wvw with zerker gear. They don’t have a pvt set just for wvw. So they end up dying when zerg skill lags build up and become uncontrollable.

So if you are really into wvw, you will have to spend a one time cost for pvt gears (I suggest getting these from SE dungeon runs, cheap and easy since you are pve oriented plus the grenth temple for trinkets). Also every time you change between pve and wvw you will spend on resetting traits (3+ silver).

So you would spend quite some just to set things up. But comparing to dying with zerker gear often, it might be worth it if you do wvw often too.

If you only have time for playing 1 char and want to do both pve and wvw efficiently, I would go for a zerker LB/SB/survival ranger. It works wonders in any content imo.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Tom Gore.4035:

If you are losing money in WvW you are doing it wrong. Really wrong.

If you do it “right” you really lose money….

I am gonna guess ole Tommy don’t shell out cash for many upgrades lol….

Yes you could probably argue that.

But in my opinion in their current form of WvW the upgrades aren’t worth the money spent on them. I wrote a very long post about more realistic sieging and supply lines ages ago, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon. In the meantime, flipping the camps, towers and keeps over and over again is by far the most efficient method of getting exp/karma/coin in WvW.

BBMouse.6510:

So if you are really into wvw, you will have to spend a one time cost for pvt gears (I suggest getting these from SE dungeon runs, cheap and easy since you are pve oriented plus the grenth temple for trinkets). Also every time you change between pve and wvw you will spend on resetting traits (3+ silver).

Or buy Invader’s gear using the hundred billion badges of honor that ANet gave out with the achievement chests.

Armour repair = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink

Just like waypoint costs..

Because there is a net profit in each zerg battle due each dead player dropping loot to multiple people on death.
Anet tries to keep the gold in check with sinks.