Why do we have 3 exact borderlands?

Why do we have 3 exact borderlands?

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Posted by: YaYa.5879

YaYa.5879

Ok so this is my humble opinion. So don’t take it agressively
The goal of an expension is to push a product forward.
Before we had 4 different maps in wvw: eternal battle ground and 3 different borderlands.

And now with the new expansion we have 2 different maps: eternal battlegrounds and the one desert borderland that is copied and past 3 times.

So did the expansion push the product forward? Well no… instead of having 4 maps we have 1 playable one and 3 exact same dersert borderlands that are (ready for the pwn) “deserted” by the players (haha get it, “deserted”. Because it’s called the desert borderlands and that they are deserted by the players. Did you get it? did you get it? you laughed? tell me you lauged).

So please Anet, Even though you don’t want to introduce gliding in a super vertical map, can we at least have 2 of the old borderlande back?
I mean on the one hand you will keep you heads high cuz there is still going to be a deserted borderlands, and on the other hand we would have 3 playable maps.

PS: oh and again, That would be awesome if you introduced gliding, in the desert borderlands for the owners of the expansion.
- Gliding is a HOT content.
- Desert B are HOT maps (kinda)
- The game is dead anyway if you don’t have the expansion: in pve dungeons are dead, and to be rewarded in fractals you need masteries. PVP without the new (awesome) elites is like going in a Formula 1 car race tournament with a skateboard. So why not make the experience better for HOT owners (such as myself) for wvw too?

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Posted by: Offair.2563

Offair.2563

Sorry but the alpines were also 1 map copied 3 times. And its probably done for fairness.

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Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

I think the point he’s making is it would have been better if the desert was randomly rotated as one or two of the avaliable borderlands.

I agree. The game would be better if we had non-clone borderlands that rotated out every matchup. preferably with each BL being a different map.

Then people would complain about getting the “bad” home BL, but everyone whining about the new BL maps could just go fight over whatever the alpine BL rolled as.

It wouldn’t change anything though. The WvW community as a whole has no idea what it wants. They want it to be better, but also stay the same. They want higher pops but they don’t want to merge/eliminate servers. They want more interesting fights but hate more complex maps.

I think Anet is making the right call by not listening to anyone at this point, and just using internal metrics and player population counts to see what players are really doing versus what players say they are doing.

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Out of fairness and resource cost of developing maps.

Though, the fairness falls a bit short since they don’t really care about WvW, so not sure how fairness could be an argument.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

Fairness isn’t really an argument due to the way WvW works in the first place, due to the scoring system not really caring where you cap stuff. You could easily ignore your home Bl and win the match anyway.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Because these are just placeholder maps until they make a snow map and redo alpine and EB… Then you’ll get your uniquely themed 3 sided maps just like eotm…

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

The real question is why do we even have borderlands?

They have clearly outlived their usefullness. No one want to play on the borders anymore. The population isnt there. The new border is designed with the waypoints as EB so there is no longer any “home” border, just scrap 2 of them, period.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Fairness isn’t really an argument due to the way WvW works in the first place, due to the scoring system not really caring where you cap stuff. You could easily ignore your home Bl and win the match anyway.

“Hey anet, our server is outnumbered 24/7 and we’ve also got the desert borderlands which are 10 times harder to defend than alpine as the keeps are three times as big and it takes us 4 times as long to get anywhere”.

And no, you can’t ignore your home BL and still win – would be a stupid descision to do so as the stuff on your BL is easier to hold than enemy objectives on EB.
Your corner EB: 2 camps, 4 towers, one keep = 75 PPT + SM = 110 PPT
BL: 6 camps, 3 keeps, 4 towers = 145 PPT

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Posted by: xev.9476

xev.9476

I think the point he’s making is it would have been better if the desert was randomly rotated as one or two of the avaliable borderlands.

I agree. The game would be better if we had non-clone borderlands that rotated out every matchup. preferably with each BL being a different map.

Then people would complain about getting the “bad” home BL, but everyone whining about the new BL maps could just go fight over whatever the alpine BL rolled as.

It wouldn’t change anything though. The WvW community as a whole has no idea what it wants. They want it to be better, but also stay the same. They want higher pops but they don’t want to merge/eliminate servers. They want more interesting fights but hate more complex maps.

I think Anet is making the right call by not listening to anyone at this point, and just using internal metrics and player population counts to see what players are really doing versus what players say they are doing.

If you view the “WvW community” as some monolithic, univocal whole it’s no mystery as to why you’re so confused. What you list aren’t necessarily contradictions, but expressions of different desires from different types of players, but some of your items are just flat-out misleading. You can hardly whine about players wanting “more interesting fights but hating more complex maps” when the new BL does almost everything possible to discourage fighting via innumerable paths, extreme verticality, obstacles, gimmicks, and death-trap choke points around every corner. None of those make for “more interesting fights”, but very stupid one-sided fights, assuming there’s a fight to be had at all.

Somehow “vanilla” WvW managed to attract and retain players with diverse interests – siege humpers, scouts, fights-only players, strategic players, etc. – but you make it sound foolish to expect developers to deliver a new map that enhances, or at least caters to, what originally drew people to the game mode, which seems like a reasonable expectation to me. What seems stupid, though, is suggesting that a failed, inept map ought to be used in rotation instead of outright removed. Even more nonsensical is suggesting that ANet is doing the right thing designing around confused metrics instead of catering to its player base. They just did that; it emptied WvW.

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Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

There’s really no fair match being played though.
Personally I’d love seeing a single instance of all 4 in play.

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

And no, you can’t ignore your home BL and still win – would be a stupid descision to do so as the stuff on your BL is easier to hold than enemy objectives on EB.
Your corner EB: 2 camps, 4 towers, one keep = 75 PPT + SM = 110 PPT
BL: 6 camps, 3 keeps, 4 towers = 145 PPT

Of course you can. My server is literally holding nothing on our home border (yesterday primetime, everything was capped by enemies and T2-3, lol). Or any other border for that matter. Still seems to be winning the matchup due to nightcapping.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

And no, you can’t ignore your home BL and still win – would be a stupid descision to do so as the stuff on your BL is easier to hold than enemy objectives on EB.
Your corner EB: 2 camps, 4 towers, one keep = 75 PPT + SM = 110 PPT
BL: 6 camps, 3 keeps, 4 towers = 145 PPT

Of course you can. My server is literally holding nothing on our home border (yesterday primetime, everything was capped by enemies and T2-3, lol). Or any other border for that matter. Still seems to be winning the matchup due to nightcapping.

If your server is karma training then they hold more than EB = your argument is null and void.
EB 260 PPT in total and 2 servers who want their corner, BL 145 PPT in total and if you don’t care for your own someone else will get most of the PPT.

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

I think it’s to late to scrap the borderland idea because they are base on the principle of having a defending server. It has been the core reason since launch that prevented WvW from progressing toward a more open system with 4 distinctive maps.

From that perspective EotM is the most forward-thinking map, but with the Desert Borderland they took a step back.

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Posted by: Phantom.8130

Phantom.8130

I think the point he’s making is it would have been better if the desert was randomly rotated as one or two of the avaliable borderlands.

I agree. The game would be better if we had non-clone borderlands that rotated out every matchup. preferably with each BL being a different map.

Then people would complain about getting the “bad” home BL, but everyone whining about the new BL maps could just go fight over whatever the alpine BL rolled as.

It wouldn’t change anything though. The WvW community as a whole has no idea what it wants. They want it to be better, but also stay the same. They want higher pops but they don’t want to merge/eliminate servers. They want more interesting fights but hate more complex maps.

I think Anet is making the right call by not listening to anyone at this point, and just using internal metrics and player population counts to see what players are really doing versus what players say they are doing.

No…. see, they never listened to the players. They always blindly relied on their misinterpreted internal metrics, and that’s what got them in this mess to begin with. If they actually listened to the players, none of the changes they made to WvW over the past 3 years would have happened. See, while there’s a wide variety of playstyles and preferences, there are certain issues where the WvW community pretty much universally unites on. Take the commander and squad system. That was something that was pretty much universally agreed on by everyone who said anything about it. There was never anyone that said that it should just be a blue dot over someone’s head, but that was all we got for years. They finally managed to make a concession and gave us different colors…… at three times the cost, after we bumped the thread about it for weeks….. with zero Dev response….. and they seem to have actually deleted that thread entirely. Yet it still didn’t come until about a year later. A year, to add 3 colors. Let that sink in for a minute. A chimpanzee could have done it in a single afternoon. An average human with a functional brain could have done it in 20 minutes. A team of game developers should have been able to get it done in less than 3 minutes. Yet it took t least 365 days, to add….. three….. colors…. of dots. And when they did finally manage to roll out the squad system that should have been in since day 1, and certainly didn’t take 3 full years to create, it was only because raids in their hideous expansion needed it. If it wasn’t for raids, we never would have gotten it.

No one asked for the WvW masteries, people asked for some form of progression and achivement. No one asked for the bloodlust ruins, people asked for the orb mechanics and exploits to be fixed. No one asked to have all of their guild upgrades taken away and locked behind a massive grind, because that would be insane. No one asked for the Deserted borderland, people asked for an improved map. Yet this is what we got. Multiple CDIs, countless threads with extremely good suggestions (some even with frickin’ pictures so Anet couldn’t possibly screw it up), the Adopt-A-Dev Program, and…… this is what we got. Ignored, while they blindly relied on their misinterpreted internal metric. And now they’re dealing with the consequences of their choices. Pride and greed over a quality product, and it went from being the most promising MMO on the market that was absolutely overflowing with players to being on life support. And Anet deserves it. They screwed up, severely, and they don’t even have the balls to face people about it. They’re hiding away, and making one post every 3 months, doing nothing but making more empty promises, and reverting a couple things back to how they used to be and labeling them as “updates”.

This literally is their last chance and they will blow this one too. Because they have no idea what they’re doing, and have entirely too much hubris to admit it. They deserve to fail at this point. They’ve had so many opportunities and second chances, and wasted every single one of them. Because they’ve ignored their customers, and blindly relied on their misinterpreted internal metrics.

We wanted the game to function properly. We wanted cheaters removed. We wanted basic tools. We got dinosaurs and lasers, and a lot of empty promises. Because they didn’t listen to the players, they blindly relied on their misinterpreted internal metrics.

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Posted by: Spurnshadow.3678

Spurnshadow.3678

The BLs are imbalaced and favor the north keep. Since the east and west keeps are different as well, you need three maps for balance.

Also, keep in mind there was a lot of time that in T1 and T2 all maps had ques during prime time, not just on reset night.

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

It was always my impression that every server got a home map.

If you eliminate the duplicates, who gets the “home”?

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

It was always my impression that every server got a home map.

If you eliminate the duplicates, who gets the “home”?

They did on alpine. On desert, due to the way the waypoints have changed and the nw/ne towers being pointless for defense (they are easier to cap from bay/hills than from garri), its no longer a home border with advantage to the defender.

So the answer to your question – no one.

Just like now.

Sometimes I wish they would have gone all the way instead of making the kitten half-baked version of alpine. A map like EB (triangle layout) or EoTM (again, triangle layout) would have made an easy transition to a reduction of “borders”.

(edited by Dawdler.8521)

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Posted by: DrMatt.9408

DrMatt.9408

Out of fairness and resource cost of developing maps.

Though, the fairness falls a bit short since they don’t really care about WvW, so not sure how fairness could be an argument.

Why is this fair? PVE got 4 massive new maps with the expansion + 2 maps in living story + the 20 something maps in base game. Don’t see why 3 unique BL too much to ask, should have been in game on release IMOP. But then again, we have seen what happens when ANET tried to make a new BL map so maybe we should just keep quiet.

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Posted by: Osu.6307

Osu.6307

PVE also has 10x (my guess) as many players as wvw. If you can get all those PVE players into wvw and get them to complain to the point where forum rant threads get over 3000 responses, then maybe we’ll see an anet response. Until then, enjoy being the red-haired step child.

Osu

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Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

The BLs are imbalaced and favor the north keep. Since the east and west keeps are different as well, you need three maps for balance.

We need balance, but 3 equal shares isn’t balance in WvW.. It’s how we get snowballing matches.

We need a way to help the losing servers compensate for smaller population, a favorable map is a good way.

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Posted by: expandas.7051

expandas.7051

I was talking with a couple of friends yesterday about how interesting it would be if only the green team had its home map changed to the Alpine borderlands. Players would have a second map besides EBG to populate and we might see closer matchups as well.