Guild Wars 2

So I really think confusion is extremely powerful in wvwvw and wish people didnt attribute their loss to it when I win duels and 1v1s. Im not even a confusion mesmer but apparently a single cry-of-frustration shatter is enough to bring the most skilled players down.

I just dont understand why they would adjust the damage in spvp and NOT in wvwvw, whats the explanation? To me wvwvw is more about pvp than it is about pve.

It’s ok, Mesmer already has the most overpowered and game breaking skills in WvW. ANet obviously has no intentions of ever bringing the class back in line with the others.

Confusion is easily dealt with, just need people to run a little support with condition removal, not hard just everyone wants to do LEET DEEPZ.

What is a problem:
- Time Warp effects siege in WvW.
- Portal even post nerf is still required on the field to be even remotely effective compared to a team without a Mesmer running it.
- Veil can stealth an ENTIRE SERVER with absolutely no internal cooldown or “revealed” debuff like with other forms of stealth.

Kelo.4370:

Confusion is easily dealt with, just need people to run a little support with condition removal, not hard just everyone wants to do LEET DEEPZ.

- Portal even post nerf is still required on the field to be even remotely effective compared to a team without a Mesmer running it.

• Confusion is not “easily dealt with”, there’s a reason it was adjusted in sPvP. This is a very silly statement.

• Portal is a fine tool which has its uses from time to time – it is not remotely necessary, stop pretending it is.

I personally never have a problem with Confusion or really any conditions period, but that’s probably cause I am playing a condi-removal Staff Ele and my groups rarely ever have more than a single stack of anything for more than a second or two.

Portal right now is within the realm of reasonable, but saying that it is not a required tool on the field just shows how little you actually know about WvW.

Confusion can be op against zerg* when you have a necro to spread it, but in small scale fights the confusion build is a lot weaker than the more popular shatter burst build.

*The dumber the person, the more effective the confusion. A zerg is about half as smart as it’s dumbest member. So what do you expect?

Confusion was adjusted up for WvW and PvE not down for spvp. In Spvp it really is way too low.

And there is no way for a single cry of frustration to kill a good player, unless they have the minimum health pool, spam buttons constantly and don’t pay attention to conditions or what the mesmer is doing. But if they had all that they would not be a good player. A good player should never die to confusion.

And there are lots of ways to counter confusion, the same exact way you deal with conditions from other condition specs. Confusion only hurts as much as you let it. Some people bring condition removal (self, group or combo field) and/or stop attacking when confusion is high for the few seconds it lasts. It also helps to turn off auto attack when facing a confusion mesmer, I recommend a keybind for that. Outside of confusion they do almost no damage.

No… don’t nerf Confusion. I just got to 80 with my confusion support build

I hate portal – just do away with it entirely in WvW. I don’t use Veil, 90 sec is way too long to wait for a 4 second invis.

Btw, I believe Time Warp only affects Golems not other siege.

Kelo.4370:

I personally never have a problem with Confusion or really any conditions period, but that’s probably cause I am playing a condi-removal Staff Ele and my groups rarely ever have more than a single stack of anything for more than a second or two.

Portal right now is within the realm of reasonable, but saying that it is not a required tool on the field just shows how little you actually know about WvW.

So you pop on a thread to just complain some more about mesmers? What have we done to you? And as a mesmer who deals a lot with portals, I may assure that you portals are NOT required for field play. They are not required at all. In fact, most of the portals I see end badly because mesmers aren’t practiced in good placement and timing. Portals are only required when a mesmer is hiding in a keep. In that case, people should know better by now to sweep for mesmers and camp dead bodies. All the spots are basically known.

Now, onto confusion! Confusion only gets out of hand when you get a lot of stacks on it. Normally if I have 2-3 stacks of confusion, I just blow right through them since they don’t do much damage. It’s when you get over 8 stacks it starts getting back. But there’s a very easy solution: pop some survivability skill, run back for a couple seconds, and then run back. I don’t of any class that can keep confusion 5+ constant during a 1v1 fight, just bursting. As for in a raid setting…well….kinda tough luck. All the conditions stack, and at least if you’re in a raid v raid fight you can afford to stop attacking for few seconds and it won’t affect your raid too much, and then just try to stay out of standing in glamor fields.

Most of the times I get lots of kills from confusion is when I lay a Feedback on an enemy attacking a keep, and people continue to stand in there while I lay glamor fields on top and just keep auto attacking (I’m staring at you rangers!!). AoE is very lovely in this game, in that it gives you very obvious graphical signs a lot of the times…

Confusion is a problem in Zergs, because people dont pack condition removal, dont pay attention, and are generally not concerned about their own well being, just the bags.

In small scale fights, confusion isnt a problem.
You dont have 4 mesmers using glamours to stack confusion and 3 necro’s spreading every condition under the sun to 30 people.

Stop running in a zerg with no condition removal.
And stop blindly auto attacking into a feedback bubble with confusion.
Problem solved.

Mesmers bring a lot of bad things in wvw, but confusion stacking isn’t one of them.

Kelo.4370:

It’s ok, Mesmer already has the most overpowered and game breaking skills in WvW. ANet obviously has no intentions of ever bringing the class back in line with the others.

Confusion is easily dealt with, just need people to run a little support with condition removal, not hard just everyone wants to do LEET DEEPZ.

What is a problem:
- Time Warp effects siege in WvW.
- Portal even post nerf is still required on the field to be even remotely effective compared to a team without a Mesmer running it.
- Veil can stealth an ENTIRE SERVER with absolutely no internal cooldown or “revealed” debuff like with other forms of stealth.

All three of those points are intentionally hyperbolic or factually incorrect. Either way, you should try not kittenting up every thread with your personal vendetta.

Veil is a problem and nothing you or anyone else says can overshadow that problem.

Kelo.4370:

- Portal even post nerf is still required on the field to be even remotely effective compared to a team without a Mesmer running it.

You will have your mesmer if you reroll

Tip for any1 who thinks about mesmer’s being op… Roll mesmer learn theirs traits, abilities and then comment… you want to kill “glamour” mesmer , solution is to spread retaliation at your team…

Kelo.4370:

Veil is a problem and nothing you or anyone else says can overshadow that problem.

Yes because all of these “OP” skills that the Mesmer has now leave the Mesmer with one of two options. No condition removal or no stun break.

So they can sacrifice any amount of survival ability to have abilities with huge cool downs. That seems like a pretty fair trade off.

Of course since you play Ele/Thief you aren’t really familiar with this concept of Survival for utility trade off because you are used to having both.

Don’t try to claim that Veil and Portal are their survival skills because if they use them for that then they aren’t using them to “Stealth the whole server.” It’s one or the other with abilities with this long of a cool down. If you want to use it as support you have to save it for when it’s needed. If you use it to keep yourself alive then it’s not there for support needs.

Kelo.4370:

Veil is a problem and nothing you or anyone else says can overshadow that problem.

I would gladly trade a line veil for a 60s shadow refuge.
Since that wont happen..

You going to be really sad since veil is going to be this way for a looooong time

^_^

Intigo.1653:

• Confusion is not “easily dealt with”, there’s a reason it was adjusted in sPvP. This is a very silly statement.

Actually, yes it is. WvW is not sPvP, just because it was deemed too powerful in one does not mean it is in the other. It’s called condition removal and any zerg worth their salt is going to have at least a few people running it. They will minimize if not nullify the effects of confusion. On a smaller scale without access to multiple condition removal sources, yes the rate at which a mesmer can apply and reapply confusion was over powered. That is the reason you saw the sPvP nerf. In WvW, against SMART opponents, confusion is considerably less powerful.

There are many other things I’d adjust to be more like spvp before I’d get to confusion. cloak and dagger, backstab and heartseeker first, to make up for culling advantages.

You are all talking from a zerg point of view, and frankly I dont think balancing should be studied from a zerg vs zerg perspective. Everyone either dies because of AOE spam or dont die because its so easy to rez downed people, add culling into the mix, its a very frustrating experience.

Zerg vs zerg is not fun, and should not be incouraged any further. Now, from a small group VS small group perspective, confusion is indeed overpowered, and as I said before it was adjusted for SPVP (perhaps a bit too harsh), but it should be adjusted in wvwvw as well since many of us small-group roamers end up in 1v1-5v5 situations, just like in spvp.

aaron.7850:

You are all talking from a zerg point of view, and frankly I dont think balancing should be studied from a zerg vs zerg perspective. Everyone either dies because of AOE spam or dont die because its so easy to rez downed people, add culling into the mix, its a very frustrating experience.

Zerg vs zerg is not fun, and should not be incouraged any further. Now, from a small group VS small group perspective, confusion is indeed overpowered, and as I said before it was adjusted for SPVP (perhaps a bit too harsh), but it should be adjusted in wvwvw as well since many of us small-group roamers end up in 1v1-5v5 situations, just like in spvp.

if i remember correctly.
Wasnt confusion buffed for pve-
and doesnt WvW use pve rules

I dont recall it ever being toned down just for spvp, just that it was too weak in pve.

Secondly, in small scale combat even 1 v 1 combat.

Confusion isnt a big deal.
If you have condition removal, good players in your group, and know how to fight a mesmer.

Kelo.4370:

What is a problem:
- Time Warp effects siege in WvW.
- Portal even post nerf is still required on the field to be even remotely effective compared to a team without a Mesmer running it.
- Veil can stealth an ENTIRE SERVER with absolutely no internal cooldown or “revealed” debuff like with other forms of stealth.

If the enemy team tries to portal bomb you. You drop ring of warding’s, and Static fields on the portal exit, then proceed to destroy anyone inside. My server has been doing this for a while now.

Veil cannot be stacked, and lasts 4 seconds. In that time, you cannot have it re-applied to you. At the same time, It does not stack with any other forms of stealth, and will also break the moment you deal damage in the same way with any other form of stealth. Dealing said damage will also render you Revealed for a short time. On top of this, Veil has a 90 second cooldown.

As far as time warp goes, this is somewhat of an issue for most siege, but negatively effects others. Example, Trebs lose range etc. At the end of the day, god forbid a mesmer sacrifice their own personal ability to do anything for the greater good of their team in a meaningful way.

aaron.7850:

Now, from a small group VS small group perspective, confusion is indeed overpowered, and as I said before it was adjusted for SPVP (perhaps a bit too harsh), but it should be adjusted in wvwvw as well since many of us small-group roamers end up in 1v1-5v5 situations, just like in spvp.

I disagree. While I hate Zerging, it’s kind of the idea behind WvW (large scale battles). Don’t get me wrong I’m all for small roaming parties (I actually love roaming), but if you’re doing that it comes with inherent risks…like coming up against a confusion mesmer. There are counters for everything and a confusion WvW mesmer, while powerful, is not exactly unbeatable. They just happen to be trickier to take down.

Here’s what I don’t get about confusion-hate. Even without condi-removal, it’s arguably simple as all heck to get rid of: Step away from the Mesmer for a bit, folks. Confusion only stacks damage, not duration. Ergo, in 3-5 seconds, you can go back to tossing out DPS. The only thing wrong with it, honestly, is that it triggers on non-offensive actions like traited dodge rolls. Now, that part, I’ll say needs a fix.

Regarding aaron’s comments about ZvZ: we can agree that it’s not terribly fun. Realize, however, most of that issue is in fact caused by two things: Zerg rendering
(a.k.a. the “Culling Beast”), and – wonder of wonders – AoE limits on players. After all,
most folk’ll quickly Zerg up, once they realize that only siege bypasses the 5-person AoE attack limitation. Which shreds the idea stated of “AOE spam.”

Kelo.4370:

What is a problem:
- Time Warp effects siege in WvW.
- Portal even post nerf is still required on the field to be even remotely effective compared to a team without a Mesmer running it.
- Veil can stealth an ENTIRE SERVER with absolutely no internal cooldown or “revealed” debuff like with other forms of stealth.

-Time warp Only works on golems (even if it did work on other siege it wouldn’t matter since there are cds on the abilities)
- Portal… you’re right, it’s required and no matter what the cap or cooldown is it always will be.
- Veil you were right until you mentioned no icd and no revealed debuff. I’ll go ahead and assume you don’t know the mechanics for stealth, you have to attack from stealth to get the revealed debuff. Multiple veils must be placed well since veil will not apply stealth if you already have it… that’s about as close to an icd you’ll see with stealth which is more than can be said about thief stealth.

Mesmer brings things to the table you can’t do without. Other classes are in the same position (warrior/ele for cc, guardians for stability, ele/guard/necro for heals and condition control, thief for the best blast finisher in the game). Ranger and Engi bring things to the table, but you don’t need them.

Confusion is definitely too strong in wvw. Sure it can be countered, but there isn’t anything in this game that can’t be. You won’t see it nerfed in wvw until they decide to split pve and wvw rulesets though because confusion in pve is trash.

engineers have combo fields ;-;

Thread like these need to be ignored. lol Fix gears and culling anet.