Guild Wars 2

I see many people from lower tiers who transferred to BG really focused on playing only in EBG and capturing stonemist.

Now, we usually don’t give two rats about stonemist and use it mostly as a supply depot and a platform to attack the other two servers. Why do people place so much importance on it? I find playing in EBG extremely frustrating because of clueless pugs not willing to learn or follow, which isn’t the case in the borderlands. I’m not really big on fighting 70-80 man zergs either… Especially when they’re hiding behind 5 sup acs and bunkered in their towers (which we do as well – I’m really not a fan of that).

So, why is EBG and SMC so important to you?

Eternal BG is easier to travel in mainly is why I like it, not such long open stretches to get ganked in, and not as many cliffs blocking your patch, and generally more action there as well.

Because its a pretty castle!!

But seriously, The game is entirely different in the lower tiers. SMC actually means something and often gets a waypoint in it below T4. Then it becomes a super useful launching point for controlling all of EBG and turns the map into an actual useful map for PPT. And it makes it easier to karma train.

The whole meta of the BLs being where the points are from and where good guild groups actually run is only taking place in T3 and up. Any lower than that and guilds and zergs can map hop so easily that running over a BL is super easy. When those guilds and zergs go to EBG, all the people are concentrated in a much smaller area, and SMC being the center makes for fun fights.

T3 and up WvW is entirely different from WvW in any of the lower tiers. T2 and T1 are fairly “static” unless one server can fill a timeslot the others do not. Below T3 it is much more dynamic in terms of PPT. This leads to EBG and especially SMC being focal points for many servers and a point of pride when one can WP it and hold it for much of the week.

Tibstrike.2974:

Because its a pretty castle!!

But seriously, The game is entirely different in the lower tiers. SMC actually means something and often gets a waypoint in it below T4. Then it becomes a super useful launching point for controlling all of EBG and turns the map into an actual useful map for PPT. And it makes it easier to karma train.

The whole meta of the BLs being where the points are from and where good guild groups actually run is only taking place in T3 and up. Any lower than that and guilds and zergs can map hop so easily that running over a BL is super easy. When those guilds and zergs go to EBG, all the people are concentrated in a much smaller area, and SMC being the center makes for fun fights.

T3 and up WvW is entirely different from WvW in any of the lower tiers. T2 and T1 are fairly “static” unless one server can fill a timeslot the others do not. Below T3 it is much more dynamic in terms of PPT. This leads to EBG and especially SMC being focal points for many servers and a point of pride when one can WP it and hold it for much of the week.

If that’s the case in servers under T3, why can’t you lead a float team to full cap all 3 borderlands and stay out of EBG? You’ll get way more PPT that way. Just seems silly to me to focus so much on one map and one target.

Blackgate doesn’t even have any guilds that are willing to lead EBG anymore, so it basically runs itself. Borderlands fights are way more strategic and intense, and most of the time, not behind siege capped arrowcarts.

Some of the best fights I’ve been in were in smc, especially when all three servers are inside. Having it waypointed makes it easier to get to the enemy sides, as well as hide the zerg if you own it.

rhapsody.3615:

Some of the best fights I’ve been in were in smc, especially when all three servers are inside. Having it waypointed makes it easier to get to the enemy sides, as well as hide the zerg if you own it.

A waypointed SMC just shouts out “HEY GUYS, 2V1 ME”. No server can survive a sustained 2v1, in a single map. We actively avoid upgrading SMC here in Blackgate for that reason alone.

EB seems to be the training ground for less experienced players. BLs have more annoying terrain and are frequently filled with skirmish/roamers that are quite dangerous.

SM is often a target because of its vicinity to a starting waypoint and value.

Reverence.6915:

Tibstrike.2974:

Because its a pretty castle!!

But seriously, The game is entirely different in the lower tiers. SMC actually means something and often gets a waypoint in it below T4. Then it becomes a super useful launching point for controlling all of EBG and turns the map into an actual useful map for PPT. And it makes it easier to karma train.

The whole meta of the BLs being where the points are from and where good guild groups actually run is only taking place in T3 and up. Any lower than that and guilds and zergs can map hop so easily that running over a BL is super easy. When those guilds and zergs go to EBG, all the people are concentrated in a much smaller area, and SMC being the center makes for fun fights.

T3 and up WvW is entirely different from WvW in any of the lower tiers. T2 and T1 are fairly “static” unless one server can fill a timeslot the others do not. Below T3 it is much more dynamic in terms of PPT. This leads to EBG and especially SMC being focal points for many servers and a point of pride when one can WP it and hold it for much of the week.

If that’s the case in servers under T3, why can’t you lead a float team to full cap all 3 borderlands and stay out of EBG? You’ll get way more PPT that way. Just seems silly to me to focus so much on one map and one target.

Blackgate doesn’t even have any guilds that are willing to lead EBG anymore, so it basically runs itself. Borderlands fights are way more strategic and intense, and most of the time, not behind siege capped arrowcarts.

I guess I should have also said that the PPT game is not king outside of T1. Most servers outside of T1 either experience getting rolled or roll other servers regularly. This has changed recently but most players remember that. So the general view of PPT is one of “meh”. It’s nice when you have it but everyone remembers when you are ticking only 45 during NA prime.

Also, the existence or idea of a “float team” is foreign below T2 to be honest. There are no organized zergs that act as rapid-response or attack. There just isn’t enough people. There are 2 groups. The home BL and the EB group. If you are a pug you tend to pick one when you log on. The only people who venture to other BL are organized guilds or roamers.

Basically, while there are similarities, any strategy used in T1 for effective use of people and zergs gets less effective as you move down the tiers. T2 is similar but once you drop below T3 for sure, it becomes completely different. That guild group of 20 you have complementing your main zerg on a BL in T1? That’s now the only organized group for your server on all 3 BL maps.

Reverence.6915:

rhapsody.3615:

Some of the best fights I’ve been in were in smc, especially when all three servers are inside. Having it waypointed makes it easier to get to the enemy sides, as well as hide the zerg if you own it.

A waypointed SMC just shouts out “HEY GUYS, 2V1 ME”. No server can survive a sustained 2v1, in a single map. We actively avoid upgrading SMC here in Blackgate for that reason alone.

Except in lower tiers a WP SMC is exactly what he said, a strong strategic point that is held for quite some time. A stronger server holding a WP SMC is nigh impossible to take because they WILL call for reinforcements from the home BL to protect it if everything else is safe. It is entirely possible for a server like IoJ to WP and hold SMC for days at a time versus servers like FC and GoM.

Just because it doesn’t work on BG doesn’t mean it will not work in lower tiers.

Well on GoM, where 80% of its players only come when things are looking bright, EB is important. If it doesn’t look nice, those kind of players aren’t going to come and play.

So you basically lure them in EB then get them to move out somewhere else. And I despise SM. It’s a pain to defend yet everyone seems to want to keep at all costs, and when you don’t have it you get trebbed by it…

But I think you guys are under-estimating the situation in low tiers when it comes to population issues. You can sit for hours in a BL without someone attacking even a single camp…

Yes FC here and when our BL gets attacked we have to WP there to defend. There aren’t just zergs of people sitting there defending.

Our main group(s) have scouts in all maps. The group is not just responsible for a BL.

We normally have 1 EBG zerg, 1 more organized floating zerg, A 5-10 man havoc team, and 1-3 man roaming groups.. Sometimes more sometimes less but that’s pretty typical across all maps.

And this week in a fairly competitive match we held SMC with full upgrades for well over a day. We had to wipe a lot of zergs defending it, but that’s the great thing about SMC it attracts walking loot bags all day. The fights come to you.

You should transfer off BG

SMC is a nub magnet as far as I’m concerned. I do enjoy it for the fights, though.

For servers without queue problems (that is, for most servers), generally, organized guilds play in BL’s and pugs play in EB. EB is important for coverage gaps, when organized guilds aren’t playing. If an enemy zerg attacks your BL, the EB zerg often map hops to defend.

Having a corner in EB is important because it gets the pugs to come in, and if pugs come in, you can funnel people into your BL to defend it. Most of your points will come from your BL, so you always need people to scout/map-hop to defend it.

I’ve been on IoJ from our T7 days to our T4.5 days before leagues, and this general outline has held true in all of those tiers. I imagine it’s similar until queues actually start to be a problem and coverage gaps are diminished.

I just find there’s more action in EB so I tend to go there now. I know defending is important, but I don’t want to sit around and watch the tower paint dry. I want to get get stuff. In EB on my server, something is always happening. On reset nights I’ll go with my guild to the BL but otherwise I way prefer the fast pace of EB.

Not to mention, if world completion is ever going to be a goal for you, you need to get to EB a lot. I have that already, but I’m sure a lot of people are there for that reason as well.

ETA: oh and capturing SM is fun, especially if most of your WvW experience has been in the BL. During Season 1 me and maybe 10 guildies took SM. That was awesome.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

ETA: oh and capturing SM is fun, especially if most of your WvW experience has been in the BL. During Season 1 me and maybe 10 guildies took SM. That was awesome.

But where there others there? I remember when me and 7 pugs entered SM while there where swords on two different locations on outer, 70+70 fighting. We capped it, lol.

Anyway EB to me is fallback, usually decent fights even if 3 of 3 borders are outmanned in the middle of primetime.

It’s easier because it’s MUCH easier to hold and retake your property there compared with the borderlands. It’s nearly free PPT. Even if something is flipped, you can usually get it back w/in one tick.

The fights are usually better there as well, because the landscape is conducive to trapping your enemy into a position where they MUST fight.

smc actually gets upgraded in lower tiers, in tier 1 people just flip it for fun or for the supply in it. If you lose smc in a low tier server everyone freaks out, if you lose it in tier 1 nobody cares because the other team will probably have it in 20 minutes anyway.

Where one server is at a disadvantage (real or perceived) in numbers or in skilled guild groups, it often focuses on EBG rather than Borderlands. I think the perception is that your own keep is easier to hold in EBG than it is in your home BL, so if you don’t have the numbers to hold both it’s better to concentrate on EBG.

As for Stonemist, it’s quite fun to take and also makes getting to the other side’s segment of the map much easier if you can cut through the centre.

Tibstrike.2974:

Reverence.6915:

rhapsody.3615:

Some of the best fights I’ve been in were in smc, especially when all three servers are inside. Having it waypointed makes it easier to get to the enemy sides, as well as hide the zerg if you own it.

A waypointed SMC just shouts out “HEY GUYS, 2V1 ME”. No server can survive a sustained 2v1, in a single map. We actively avoid upgrading SMC here in Blackgate for that reason alone.

Except in lower tiers a WP SMC is exactly what he said, a strong strategic point that is held for quite some time. A stronger server holding a WP SMC is nigh impossible to take because they WILL call for reinforcements from the home BL to protect it if everything else is safe. It is entirely possible for a server like IoJ to WP and hold SMC for days at a time versus servers like FC and GoM.

Just because it doesn’t work on BG doesn’t mean it will not work in lower tiers.

Alright then, honest question here. Because you can treb SMC from Wildcreek, Durious, Anzalias and Hills Keep, how do you even use the waypoint?

Also, if the other servers are so focused on EBG, why not just give it up and have all your forces cap the two southern keeps/towers/camps on the 3 BLs to maximise PPT?

If you want some fights, taking their garrison will almost guarantee one.

If you don’t play for PPT, then why even bother upgrading SMC?

I fully understand the lack of people in the borderlands and focusing into one or two groups. That’s how BG operates during Oceanic – we get outnumbered buff in EBG (usually with no commander tag either) and have a team of 30-40 defend our BL and cap other BLs. We use EBG basically as a supply depot cause it gets supply so quickly. Even then, we mostly ignore it unless the enemy server is pounding on our keep, because it simply isn’t that important. No point taking a tower or two when it gets upgraded to T3 in an hour or two. The margin for error in EBG is just way too high. You’re not really punished for making mistakes as a commander there.

Reverence.6915:

Tibstrike.2974:

Reverence.6915:

rhapsody.3615:

Some of the best fights I’ve been in were in smc, especially when all three servers are inside. Having it waypointed makes it easier to get to the enemy sides, as well as hide the zerg if you own it.

A waypointed SMC just shouts out “HEY GUYS, 2V1 ME”. No server can survive a sustained 2v1, in a single map. We actively avoid upgrading SMC here in Blackgate for that reason alone.

Except in lower tiers a WP SMC is exactly what he said, a strong strategic point that is held for quite some time. A stronger server holding a WP SMC is nigh impossible to take because they WILL call for reinforcements from the home BL to protect it if everything else is safe. It is entirely possible for a server like IoJ to WP and hold SMC for days at a time versus servers like FC and GoM.

Just because it doesn’t work on BG doesn’t mean it will not work in lower tiers.

Alright then, honest question here. Because you can treb SMC from Wildcreek, Durious, Anzalias and Hills Keep, how do you even use the waypoint?

Also, if the other servers are so focused on EBG, why not just give it up and have all your forces cap the two southern keeps/towers/camps on the 3 BLs to maximise PPT?

If you want some fights, taking their garrison will almost guarantee one.

If you don’t play for PPT, then why even bother upgrading SMC?

I fully understand the lack of people in the borderlands and focusing into one or two groups. That’s how BG operates during Oceanic – we get outnumbered buff in EBG (usually with no commander tag either) and have a team of 30-40 defend our BL and cap other BLs. We use EBG basically as a supply depot cause it gets supply so quickly. Even then, we mostly ignore it unless the enemy server is pounding on our keep, because it simply isn’t that important. No point taking a tower or two when it gets upgraded to T3 in an hour or two. The margin for error in EBG is just way too high. You’re not really punished for making mistakes as a commander there.

This thread is silly and its extremely amusing seeing how a higher tier player argue with a player experienced in lower ones.

Its simple. In lower tiers, the only fun place is EBG. Sure you can go cap your enemies garri, you will either face one guy on a cannon and some doors or a bunch of arrow carts.

People think the only difference between tiers is coverage, while its the main thing, there is a world of difference. Lower tiers have a lot more casuals, way less experience commanders in open field and militia’s average skill in large scale fights is lower

In low tiers, EB is the only map that has action.

Reverence.6915:

Tibstrike.2974:

Reverence.6915:

rhapsody.3615:

Some of the best fights I’ve been in were in smc, especially when all three servers are inside. Having it waypointed makes it easier to get to the enemy sides, as well as hide the zerg if you own it.

A waypointed SMC just shouts out “HEY GUYS, 2V1 ME”. No server can survive a sustained 2v1, in a single map. We actively avoid upgrading SMC here in Blackgate for that reason alone.

Except in lower tiers a WP SMC is exactly what he said, a strong strategic point that is held for quite some time. A stronger server holding a WP SMC is nigh impossible to take because they WILL call for reinforcements from the home BL to protect it if everything else is safe. It is entirely possible for a server like IoJ to WP and hold SMC for days at a time versus servers like FC and GoM.

Just because it doesn’t work on BG doesn’t mean it will not work in lower tiers.

Alright then, honest question here. Because you can treb SMC from Wildcreek, Durious, Anzalias and Hills Keep, how do you even use the waypoint?

Also, if the other servers are so focused on EBG, why not just give it up and have all your forces cap the two southern keeps/towers/camps on the 3 BLs to maximise PPT?

If you want some fights, taking their garrison will almost guarantee one.

If you don’t play for PPT, then why even bother upgrading SMC?

I fully understand the lack of people in the borderlands and focusing into one or two groups. That’s how BG operates during Oceanic – we get outnumbered buff in EBG (usually with no commander tag either) and have a team of 30-40 defend our BL and cap other BLs. We use EBG basically as a supply depot cause it gets supply so quickly. Even then, we mostly ignore it unless the enemy server is pounding on our keep, because it simply isn’t that important. No point taking a tower or two when it gets upgraded to T3 in an hour or two. The margin for error in EBG is just way too high. You’re not really punished for making mistakes as a commander there.

People do not sit there and man trebs for hours in low tiers like they do in tier 1. They don’t sit in keeps and scout for hours, either. low tier is a completely different game.

Deli.1302:

In low tiers, EB is the only map that has action.

^^^^^^^^ this.

Reverence.6915:

Tibstrike.2974:

Reverence.6915:

rhapsody.3615:

Some of the best fights I’ve been in were in smc, especially when all three servers are inside. Having it waypointed makes it easier to get to the enemy sides, as well as hide the zerg if you own it.

A waypointed SMC just shouts out “HEY GUYS, 2V1 ME”. No server can survive a sustained 2v1, in a single map. We actively avoid upgrading SMC here in Blackgate for that reason alone.

Except in lower tiers a WP SMC is exactly what he said, a strong strategic point that is held for quite some time. A stronger server holding a WP SMC is nigh impossible to take because they WILL call for reinforcements from the home BL to protect it if everything else is safe. It is entirely possible for a server like IoJ to WP and hold SMC for days at a time versus servers like FC and GoM.

Just because it doesn’t work on BG doesn’t mean it will not work in lower tiers.

Alright then, honest question here. Because you can treb SMC from Wildcreek, Durious, Anzalias and Hills Keep, how do you even use the waypoint?

Also, if the other servers are so focused on EBG, why not just give it up and have all your forces cap the two southern keeps/towers/camps on the 3 BLs to maximise PPT?

If you want some fights, taking their garrison will almost guarantee one.

If you don’t play for PPT, then why even bother upgrading SMC?

I fully understand the lack of people in the borderlands and focusing into one or two groups. That’s how BG operates during Oceanic – we get outnumbered buff in EBG (usually with no commander tag either) and have a team of 30-40 defend our BL and cap other BLs. We use EBG basically as a supply depot cause it gets supply so quickly. Even then, we mostly ignore it unless the enemy server is pounding on our keep, because it simply isn’t that important. No point taking a tower or two when it gets upgraded to T3 in an hour or two. The margin for error in EBG is just way too high. You’re not really punished for making mistakes as a commander there.

To answer the trebbing question, you can have a WP and use it because you will hold all those locations. The only real threat of trebbing comes from Red Keep. If you have a WP SMC you can control all the towers within trebbing distance because you can countertreb.

And as others have mentioned already, lower tiers do not have the people who just sit in towers and keeps all day trebbing. It happens during NA prime yes, but outside of that most people roam around in small groups of no more than 10 or solo.

And I would argue that the BLs are much more forgiving to incompetent commanders. A commander screwing up in a BL might mean losing bay or hills but those can be taken back fairly easily. A commander screwing up in EB can see all 4 T3 towers gone in a half hour and the home keep being worked on.

In lower tiers you measure your success in WvW by the number of loot bags you farm, not by the amount of ppt your server has and defending SMC is the best way to farm zergs.

Bottom-tier WvW reporting in (Devona’s Rest).

SM is pretty popular in DR mostly because it is a huge fortification, and many people think it’s a really tough objective to take and defend. It’s also matter of pride if we, one of the least populated servers in the world, get to capture it!

Furthermore, the zergs we have are not as organized as you would get used to in mid or higher tier servers. SM and EB are really nice places to rally a big zerg and tell them to hit the big castle! The huge amount of loot you get flipping SM and objectives compared to defending borderlands and resetting siege doesn’t hurt too.

I’d say it’s because it has the most action. All week it’s been run people out of our bl and take everything back then what.

You fortify and hope people are there to defend. There’s a few small groups of invaders left you run out.

You go to another bl and take hills, bay and garri with no real fight.

You go to EB and hope for a fight that’s not completely one sided on either side. If you roll them too much they log and if you get rolled too much your people log.

What would you do in that situation? I bet SM would look like fun.

You’re currently the number 1 server. You got them casuals queueing to go to your server. This is a common thing on most servers. Yours probably multiplied. XP

If the servers are evenly matched then it’s easier to roll stuff in EBG. So the karma trains prefer EBG. This creates a self reinforcing gameplay that pushes the small gank teams into the borderlands and this helps keep the karma train in EBG, because the karma train doesn’t like getting ganked.

Because it’s almost certain that there’ll be something going on in EBG, with enough players to make something happen and enough opponents to not be boring. Good chance of a commander tagged up as well.

Also EBG is the only fair map. The other three are imbalanced towards the defending server.