Guild Wars 2

Topic says it all. I remember a dev post in beta indicating there would be a decent combat log, instead we have something that shows only a fraction of what happens to you/what you do and is currently utterly useless.

I am aware that carebear central, which seems to make up the majority of the GW2 development team, will decry the very existence of combat logs, so lets start with baby steps. Just have it so the current combat log shows all types of damage, ie like condition damage, and heals.

Coming from DAoC which had a very detailed and in depth combat log this is like it was made for 10 year olds. In DAoC i could check to see how much id healed for since i logged in and the combat log had just about everything, complete with a lot of filters you could add so as not to show chant pulses and other things you found superfluous. Yes the log was detailed enough to show you in your log each time you were effected by a chant pulse(every 3 seconds or so).

Lots of stuff is just simply missing from the log and sometimes damage just doesnt show up at all leaving you wondering what exactly killed you.

If it’s missing from your log it’s probably missing from ANet’s log, which possibly explains why they never seem to be able to fix anything.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a game with such a large gap between potential and execution.

Got me thinking about it. Combat log is something that could use revolution in the mmos – not sure if there are any good ones in the upcoming mmos. But I’ve only seen the traditional damage&healing scroll sorted by time. Cluttered with massive information in AoE – Useless.

Sounds like Daoc basicly had a first step of built-in dps meter. Total damage done – make it resettable, and some personal work to time it (barrier so everyone doesn’t constantly watch dps whoring).

Anyway from pov of designing a great combat log. How can you show all the information, and sort it so that it isn’t just a uncomprehensible mess?
You can’t add condition damage to the current log without stacking the damage in some kind of eatable bits. Instead of 20 bleed ticks a second, log scrolling faster than light.
Mayby all cast+target create a combatlog object (row) sorted by time. And the object tally up the damage. 4 Lava Font ticks of 1k on 5 people become 5 rows of 4k. Instead of 20 rows of 1k.
Or hell create object for every target you hit and juts keep tallying up the damage on that row. Most recent target always moves to bottom. Press expand on a target for usual damage log.
Combat log is a feature that could be great, it could be amazing.

Rushed development, most likely.

I’m 90% sure that they will eventually improve upon it, but I’d rather they improve on other areas first.

TBH from my experiences I have a feeling that the damage calculations are not being done correctly from the server at all times, so its probably best for them its not detailed enough.

To give an example of what I mean, I am noticing that when attempting a skill that is currently not available during a fight I get the error message in the logs, but in cases where I have been downed there is not enough damage to have killed me. Going through the entire log I can find enough damage to kill me, but it seems like it wasn’t all registering, then it is syncing that damage afterwards and instantly removing 10k health for instance. Im fairly certain this is happening and its pretty game breaking.

do you really want ppl to know what does how much dmg? it would lead to builds!

It’s not just the combat log, the entire chat window is made for a MMO for 10 year olds. You can’t even copy paste text? You can’t right click on someone’s name and inspect them? Or send a mail? Or add to party? It’s not a small issue at all, it is a huge issue. I’d love to give items like dyes and stuff away to guildies, but since I can’t just right click their names in chat and send a mail.. the whole thing becomes so tedious, I just put the items on TP instead. I’m almost never sending any mail just because of that. Somone posts a link in chat? Man, you are kittened.

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

do you really want ppl to know what does how much dmg? it would lead to builds!

thanks this made me lol.

“Why do you care how much dmg you did? The boss died didn’t he!!??” >_>

Will be comparing GW2 to WOW since several Anet developers are former WOW employees….

That said, agreed, the GW2 UI could use improvement. One thing I give WOW kudos is their UI is one of the best of all MMO’s it’s unfortunate Anet after 9+ months is unable to duplicate some of its features.

On the other hand, present WOW developers are taking some of Anet’s ideas as they have just introduced “Armor Skins” for 15 bucks, haha

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/

Cactus.2710:

I’ve ever seen a game with such a large gap between potential and execution.

Star Wars: The Old Republic comes to mind. Or was it management in their case?

rogerwilko.6895:

Cactus.2710:

I’ve ever seen a game with such a large gap between potential and execution.

Star Wars: The Old Republic comes to mind. Or was it management in their case?

haha, i almost posted the same thing.

SWTOR didn’t even have a combat log to begin with. They added a combat log and a way to export the data into a 3rd party program, which is not a dps meter but it’s better than nothing. If SWTOR can do it then i’d really like to thing gw2 could muster something similar.

sostronk.8167:

TBH from my experiences I have a feeling that the damage calculations are not being done correctly from the server at all times, so its probably best for them its not detailed enough.

BAMN.

Just another check on a list of bad developments.

I’m 95% positive it’s due to network considerations. GW2 is already badly optimized, and I guess to send every single condition tick, regen tick, retaliation proc etc. back to the chat would just increase load dramatically.

I wonder if it’s a performance thing. If you look at the WvW battles, there are lots of built-in limits on numbers of targets to affect at once. But despite that, conditions are hitting many people. And things like changing might levels are dynamically changing how different stacks are ticking.

If you were looking at a combat log, you might want to see damage, healing and crowd control for you, any summoned allies, other party members, and their summoned allies.

I would love to have more data in the combat log, but there might be real performance tradeoffs.

Edit: LOL – started writing this before @Jamais posted, but was typing slowly. Same kind of thought

Not sure I buy the performance issue. Sure if you want a detailed combat log of the damage all around you, that might be the case. What I want to see in the log, as a first step, is all the numbers I see on my screen already. The data is sent, my client is receiving and displaying those numbers, why cant I have them written to the chat window or better yet to a log file if I want?

scootshoot.6583:

Will be comparing GW2 to WOW since several Anet developers are former WOW employees….

That said, agreed, the GW2 UI could use improvement. One thing I give WOW kudos is their UI is one of the best of all MMO’s it’s unfortunate Anet after 9+ months is unable to duplicate some of its features.

On the other hand, present WOW developers are taking some of Anet’s ideas as they have just introduced “Armor Skins” for 15 bucks, haha

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/

This is where the reality of a free to play MMO and a pay to play MMO come into contrast. GW2 is hardly short of amazing features. Resource and development demands priority on some things over others. You have to be realistic.

Yes, combat log is terrible and absolutely useless. It even doesn’t show seconds. God.

It was easy for DAOC developers, they had mighty Pentium 3 servers that could handle all that amount of data!!!

Its laughable if you’re running a condition/BM ranger setup (which is pretty common) because neither condition damage nor pet damage show up. You read through the log and all you see is your attacks hitting like 200 damage.

It is possible that the combat log is “rolled up” for performance reasons. They may not be sending all the pertinent data down to each client. That said, I know they are sending down some of it and not logging it.

I suggest supporting this topic in the Suggestions forum. I as well as many others have posted this before.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Combat-Log-Revamp-It-is-Time/first#post2387922

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Accurate-combat-log/first#post2220781

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/More-detailed-combat-log

I doubt it’s a performance thing. DAoC had it, keeping track of so many stats that it’s absurd, for every player in the game at all times, and during massive battles.

In 2001 with Pentium 3 servers.

Bushido.2184:

I doubt it’s a performance thing. DAoC had it, keeping track of so many stats that it’s absurd, for every player in the game at all times, and during massive battles.

In 2001 with Pentium 3 servers.

And I got it all transferred to my client over 64k line, with less lag…go figure

My problem is they rolled in other stuff into it that I would love to have in my chat box but I don’t want all the combat stuff there as well. For example, when friends log in/out or emotes. Why do these show up in combat logs? Also not having seconds in time stamp is pretty sad.

And Chorazin, you could also ask similar question about command line…for those uninitiated, just look how extensive it was:

http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/content/slash-commands

scootshoot.6583:

Will be comparing GW2 to WOW since several Anet developers are former WOW employees….

That said, agreed, the GW2 UI could use improvement. One thing I give WOW kudos is their UI is one of the best of all MMO’s it’s unfortunate Anet after 9+ months is unable to duplicate some of its features.

On the other hand, present WOW developers are taking some of Anet’s ideas as they have just introduced “Armor Skins” for 15 bucks, haha

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/

In World of Warcraft the UI was basically the game.

Cactus.2710:

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a game with such a large gap between potential and execution.

i couldn’t agree more. in fact, i’d wager that this is where the majority of all the complaint threads stem from. at launch, the amount of potential this game had was just staggering. in itself, it was good, but it needed some more things (which have been suggested on the forums countless times, in neat orderly compiled lists even) to make it perfect. since then, each patch has either been completely underwhelming, or just flat out bad. it was a game with all of the potential in the world, that’s been completely mismanaged. it could have been so much more than it is, but the direction they’ve been heading in shows that it will never even be what it once was.

if someone is into mountains of fluff, or endless party hopping, then this is a great game for them. if someone wants to play an MMORPG, then this game fell dramatically short. there’s no RP support, very little guild support, WvW is a zerg-filled laggy mess, open world PvE is pretty much the same, dungeons are laughably easy, sPvP will never be an e-sport no matter how hard they keep pushing it, and the storyline ended up being a giant kick to players’ nuts.

the only thing they’ve shown any interest in is coming up with new gimmicks to try to lure new players in, and then usher them to the gemstore. existing players? screw us, Anet and NCSoft got our money already, so we’re not even on their radar. the sharks need fresh meat filled with new blood. we’re just the disposed carcasses, and can rot for all they care.

to be fair, though, i think the majority of the blame lies squarely on NCSoft’s shoulders, not Anet’s. NCSoft has a new game coming out that they need to fund, so they need as much emphasis put on the gemshop as possible. since NCSoft is the one that gets the profits from that, NOT Anet. Anet are just the puppets that have to dance to their coorperate master’s tune.

EFWinters.5421:

Rushed development, most likely.

I’m 90% sure that they will eventually improve upon it, but I’d rather they improve on other areas first.

Next Patch they mentioned 1,200 gems buys you a highly detailed combat log screen.

Nikola.3841:

And Chorazin, you could also ask similar question about command line…for those uninitiated, just look how extensive it was:

http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/content/slash-commands

Let me just stop you right there…

I’d much rather have a config screen than hack the command line. What’s next? Set your config with peek/poke?

Mattargul.9235:

Nikola.3841:

And Chorazin, you could also ask similar question about command line…for those uninitiated, just look how extensive it was:

http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/content/slash-commands

Let me just stop you right there…

I’d much rather have a config screen than hack the command line. What’s next? Set your config with peek/poke?

How about both? Where is your fancy graphic screen way to find all guardians level 30-40 that are currently in Metrica Province? Or Graphical way to find who has most kills in wvw, who healed the most, or managing who has right to enter your house in housing zone and what he can do once he enters?

Scrambles.2604:

rogerwilko.6895:

Cactus.2710:

I’ve ever seen a game with such a large gap between potential and execution.

Star Wars: The Old Republic comes to mind. Or was it management in their case?

haha, i almost posted the same thing.

SWTOR didn’t even have a combat log to begin with. They added a combat log and a way to export the data into a 3rd party program, which is not a dps meter but it’s better than nothing. If SWTOR can do it then i’d really like to thing gw2 could muster something similar.

The combat log in the end was actually pretty useful for the group I was in. When we ran raids, we had everyone use the log during the raids. Not to post and brag, or kick people out, but for us to learn what the individual needs to change.

I think a gw2 combat log would be really helpful, especially if it could track things like the conditions you took, etc. Then, not only could you learn more about your enemy (seeing what conditions they use a lot), but also the faults in your own build. It can be difficult sometimes in WvW when lots of things are attacking you, with AoE condition clears, etc, to tell where all the pitfalls in your build are. This could be a great method, especially if they had their own tools to see the logs they could publish, to improve not only the players, but the devs ideas of what is actually going on in the WvW fights (if they could analyse the combat logs themselves).

Mattargul.9235:

Nikola.3841:

And Chorazin, you could also ask similar question about command line…for those uninitiated, just look how extensive it was:

http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/content/slash-commands

Let me just stop you right there…

I’d much rather have a config screen than hack the command line. What’s next? Set your config with peek/poke?

Most of those commands had an equivalent somewhere in the GUI, but this is a convenience for some. Typing a command is very quick, compared to flipping through 3 pages of windows and a specific sequence of certain button-clicking to toggle something. These are MMOs; it’s so repetitive and tedious after a while, and also the downside of using commands (remembering them) is lessened.

But yes, both were options. However, GW2 does seem to be targetting an even more casual audience, and not only the gameplay, but the tools we are given reflects that. The combat log is horrible, there are no filters, no customization, not enough info given, no control given.

And going back to slash commands in DAoC since it was brought up, there was a command called /who. With it, you can even do something complex like “Find all Clerics between lvs 40-45 in this certain zone in this certain guild”. That is control and usefulness.