Guild Wars 2

It can break the game for high-rank players that get targeted by enemy groups. If you’re turned into a moa 3-4 times in every fight then what is the point of playing in WvW?

This needs serious consideration for removal in WvW.

Nope. It’s been there for years and there are ways to easily deal with it, even if you’re the commander. Send a Thief to harass them. It’s a single target minor inconvenience. Far less dangerous than 2x gravity wells per Mesmer that can get multiple people bombed to smithereens.

TheHeretic.3529:

It can break the game for high-rank players that get targeted by enemy groups. If you’re turned into a moa 3-4 times in every fight then what is the point of playing in WvW?

This needs serious consideration for removal in WvW.

AMEN, brother!!!

I mean, thank Dwayna Anet gave it a bit of a nerf so the transformation is now 6 seconds instead of 10 (which was Redonkulous!) But, I agree – it still needs revisited regarding WvW.

IMO… it’s a Cheap-shot/Low-blow kind of mechanic that should be found in a Box-O’-Fun (which is a box of “goofs and gags”) not on someone’s skill bar.

What’s the point in playing WvW? It’s finding a way around the problem! It adds adversity to the game.

So much crying in WvW…

Stay near water so you can break it at any time? You could reclaim the word “troll” to mean “a scary monster who lives under a bridge” again. Your water gates will be safe once more!

TheHeretic.3529:

It can break the game for high-rank players that get targeted by enemy groups. If you’re turned into a moa 3-4 times in every fight then what is the point of playing in WvW?

This needs serious consideration for removal in WvW.

Don’t feed the trolls.

I’ve never successfully Moa’d good players — the signet shows up on my health bar and disappears as soon as I try to activate it, plus it’s pretty predictable when most mesmers are about to use it.

It also doesn’t last all that long.

It also means that the mesmer isn’t using something that’s far more useful to the group, such as mass invisibility, time warp, or gravity well.

On teams in which I play, getting targeted for Moa is a badge of honor — it means the enemy is overly worried about the one player, instead of winning the fight.

tl;dr don’t fear the signet

Oh kitten … The signet is a 180s cooldown skill that target ONE PLAYER and CAN BE DODGED/BLOCKED. Sure, it’s super powerful in a 1v1 situation, but in a large fight it’s completely useless.

Jeknar.6184:

Oh kitten … The signet is a 180s cooldown skill that target ONE PLAYER and CAN BE DODGED/BLOCKED. Sure, it’s super powerful in a 1v1 situation, but in a large fight it’s completely useless.

It’s really not all that powerful in 1v1 against an experienced opponent. (It’s great fun against newer players, of course, but it’s not nearly as useful as the other elites.)

It’s ok in a group fight where the mes can set it up sneaky like. If you’re in a 2v5 for a camp for example. Buddy gets moa’d and it’s prob gg.

After the duration nerf it really seems fine though…unless you’re a necro. Mes team can time burst and cc while the other side isn’t stuck peeling all day. 10 secs was a bit crazy.

TheHeretic.3529:

It can break the game for high-rank players that get targeted by enemy groups. If you’re turned into a moa 3-4 times in every fight then what is the point of playing in WvW?

This needs serious consideration for removal in WvW.

Why would a mesmer take that in WvW when they could take Gravity Well or Mass Invis?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

It’s really not all that powerful in 1v1 against an experienced opponent. (It’s great fun against newer players, of course, but it’s not nearly as useful as the other elites.)

guess you never got double moa’d by a chrono while having 10 confusion & 10 torment on your kitten . its easily the most broken elite in the game for 1v1 because you deprive your enemy of all their means completely, it has no counterplay.

Steelo.4597:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

It’s really not all that powerful in 1v1 against an experienced opponent. (It’s great fun against newer players, of course, but it’s not nearly as useful as the other elites.)

guess you never got double moa’d by a chrono while having 10 confusion & 10 torment on your kitten . its easily the most broken elite in the game because you deprive your enemy of all their means completely, it has no counterplay.

But it can be dodged. <_<

yeah good luck with that.

The only thing I hate about Moa is that you can’t jump as one.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Steelo.4597:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

It’s really not all that powerful in 1v1 against an experienced opponent. (It’s great fun against newer players, of course, but it’s not nearly as useful as the other elites.)

guess you never got double moa’d by a chrono while having 10 confusion & 10 torment on your kitten . its easily the most broken elite in the game because you deprive your enemy of all their means completely, it has no counterplay.

But it can be dodged. <_<

This is true if you’re not locked down. Condi mes though…either kill it quick or find a better fight. Especially if you’re surrounded by randoms.

One of the top “just not worth the time” builds in the game. At least the crappy bunker druids everywhere give up their dmg

Reh.5986:

It’s ok in a group fight where the mes can set it up sneaky like. If you’re in a 2v5 for a camp for example. Buddy gets moa’d and it’s prob gg.

If it was a 2v5 you problably wouldn’t win unless the 5 other dudes are bad anyway.

Steelo.4597:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

It’s really not all that powerful in 1v1 against an experienced opponent. (It’s great fun against newer players, of course, but it’s not nearly as useful as the other elites.)

guess you never got double moa’d by a chrono while having 10 confusion & 10 torment on your kitten . its easily the most broken elite in the game for 1v1 because you deprive your enemy of all their means completely, it has no counterplay.

I guess you’ve never been the chronomancer getting interrupted by smashy warriors, attacked at intervals by invis-thieves, surrounded by an engineer and their toys, trapped by a guardian, …

Every single prof can make it extremely difficult to channel the signet (1 second) and then still has an opportunity to dodge at the last moment. Not only that, the moa is actually dangerous if the target gets over their anger and embarrassment at getting caught. It’s not going to kill a mesmer, but it can hurt them enough that they are easy pickings after returning to their rightful shape.

Again, I have never successfully moa’d a skilled opponent 1:1 or even 2:1. I get two and only two chances before the opponent has a full 3 minutes to take me down without worrying about it.

I bring the signet entirely because I can solo roam and use it once and scare away people long enough for me to escape before they figure out I’m alone and vulnerable after the first skirmish.

If you keep getting moa’d every time you encounter the 30% of mesmers who carry the signet, then ask a colleague/friend to duel you so you can get some practice (ideally, using VoIP so they can coach you along).

I don’t mean to say that you have to be an expert mesmer to use ‘moa’ to distract or that you’re bad at wvw/pve if you can’t escape it. I am saying that the skill doesn’t need to be nerfed again (let alone disabled), because there are sufficient counters and counterplays against it.

Jeknar.6184:

Reh.5986:

It’s ok in a group fight where the mes can set it up sneaky like. If you’re in a 2v5 for a camp for example. Buddy gets moa’d and it’s prob gg.

If it was a 2v5 you problably wouldn’t win unless the 5 other dudes are bad anyway.

In tier 3 or 4 at least it is entirely possible. Many times depends on the builds too. A couple bruisers in close quarters against some glassier builds is possible.

ArchonWing.9480:

The only thing I hate about Moa is that you can’t jump as one.

Haha me too! When I get moa’d I always wish I could jump over that random ledge. Or jump out of the tower rather than walking into the tiny edge over and over. Or jump up to some higher ground (legacy of the foefire!).

As moa, use the 5 “sprint” and the 2 “leap” along with a dodge – and some LoS if possible.

-Getting Moa’ed sucks. But Moa’ing is awesome.

Usually if you don’t panic, it is manageable. Most times if you fight or run (as you would if you weren’t Moa’d) it is an inconvenience rather than a death sentence. It is a worse for a Necro getting its shroud disrupted, but usually that is only a big problem when your normal health is really low.

But a Mesmer Night with 20 people running Moa is awesome and makes it worth being on the other side of it sometimes. I just wish Moa’ed people dropped poultry meat when they died.

Look
If you had One shot
Or one opportunity
To seize everything you ever wanted
In one moment
Would you Moa it
Or just let it slip?

If any skills available to a mesmer in PVE were not available to a player in wvw or pvp, the new question would be why is SOH NOT enabled in wvw? The amount of fluff posts about that quandry would be traced back to posts such as this. Trust me, you don’t want 1000 angry mesmers (especially asuras) beating on your door.

Mesmers in paricular having been getting alot of hate posts lately, everything from their base skills to game wide armor and runes available to EVERYONE. But, please, advocate that certain skills be disabled and watch ANET not stop with mesmer nerfs.

As many have stated, the CD on moa does not equate to the time it lasts IF it hits. It’s a gamble to run SOH even in a 1v1 situation, but its fun if it works.

Personally, I don’t think heavies should be allowed to punt downed players (even if they are downed mesmers), but it’s allowed, it’s a humiliation thing and we deal with it, usually by switching to MOA mesmer, but I digress.

TheHeretic.3529:

It can break the game for high-rank players that get targeted by enemy groups. If you’re turned into a moa 3-4 times in every fight then what is the point of playing in WvW?

This needs serious consideration for removal in WvW.

Is this in a group fight, you solo running from a group or in a zerg vs zerg where the commander was being moa’d constantly?

First scenario, get your team to support you.

Second scenario you should be dead anyway especially with the number of druids and thieves running around who can (and will) chase you all across the map for the kill.

Third scenario I have seen someone just go ham as moa and not care because his party supported him. Other times change up your look/class, get someone else to command for a little bit or just don’t solo push making it easy to single the commander out. Needless to say I don’t see this tactic used much in EU as most people think it’s one of the lamest things to do in WvW and will general get hated by the enemy and allies.

The only real issue with Moa is the latency factor (and that you can’t stun break out of it like other CC – which is an odd mechanic).

The latency factor is the most annoying (you have a skill qued and the Moa skill executes instead) so I was autoattacking and use ‘5’ skill which gets qued, get hit with Moa Morph from the stealthed Mesmer and then charge head long into the enemy zerg…boo

I’d rather get turned into an invulnerable blob that can’t move.

apharma.3741:

Is this in a group fight, you solo running from a group or in a zerg vs zerg where the commander was being moa’d constantly?

Zerg fights. Like 30+v30+. Certain guilds just spam it every chance they get on enemy commanders when a fight starts.

TheHeretic.3529:

apharma.3741:

Is this in a group fight, you solo running from a group or in a zerg vs zerg where the commander was being moa’d constantly?

Zerg fights. Like 30+v30+. Certain guilds just spam it every chance they get on enemy commanders when a fight starts.

I know on my server we frown upon this. Not because of some ethical code or spirit of fair play, but because of greed. Pin snipe and your bags go running in all different directions making it impossible to collect them all. Now, where is the benefit to that? Sure you might ‘win’ the engagement, but at what cost? Silly pin snipers, think about the loot!

Haythere.7513:

What’s the point in playing WvW? It’s finding a way around the problem! It adds adversity to the game.

So much crying in WvW…

No doubt. I wish more thought like you.

Since the duration got nerfed, it’s not a problem at all tbh. A lot of things need to line up perfectly for you to be chain Moa’d. Everyone already gave great examples of how to counter, it’s drawbacks ect..OP should take a few notes.

Jerus.4350:

TheHeretic.3529:

apharma.3741:

Is this in a group fight, you solo running from a group or in a zerg vs zerg where the commander was being moa’d constantly?

Zerg fights. Like 30+v30+. Certain guilds just spam it every chance they get on enemy commanders when a fight starts.

I know on my server we frown upon this. Not because of some ethical code or spirit of fair play, but because of greed. Pin snipe and your bags go running in all different directions making it impossible to collect them all. Now, where is the benefit to that? Sure you might ‘win’ the engagement, but at what cost? Silly pin snipers, think about the loot!

It’s a valid tactic, but IMO it’s one of those things you only do if you’re having to win against a blob or to get the enemies out of your keep. Focusing down the pin seriously helps when it’s 25v60, and breaks that blob up enough to where you can clean them out.

TheHeretic.3529:

apharma.3741:

Is this in a group fight, you solo running from a group or in a zerg vs zerg where the commander was being moa’d constantly?

Zerg fights. Like 30+v30+. Certain guilds just spam it every chance they get on enemy commanders when a fight starts.

Generally most servers in EU (can’t comment on US servers) will be very angry if you do this. I don’t just mean the ones you’re fighting but your own server will hate you too.

It’s a really lame thing to do that lowers most peoples enjoyment of WvW, rather lose a T3 keep in a 15 min struggle than pin snipe and cause them all to run like the clueless zerglings they are.

apharma.3741:

TheHeretic.3529:

apharma.3741:

Is this in a group fight, you solo running from a group or in a zerg vs zerg where the commander was being moa’d constantly?

Zerg fights. Like 30+v30+. Certain guilds just spam it every chance they get on enemy commanders when a fight starts.

Generally most servers in EU (can’t comment on US servers) will be very angry if you do this. I don’t just mean the ones you’re fighting but your own server will hate you too.

It’s a really lame thing to do that lowers most peoples enjoyment of WvW, rather lose a T3 keep in a 15 min struggle than pin snipe and cause them all to run like the clueless zerglings they are.

Yes to the last part. The pin snipe is real and caused two regular commanders I had been playing with to rage quit after the third or fourth moa’ing. Anet either needs to fix it or remove it or make it so its easier for additional commanders to tag up once one is moa’d and downed.

Tl;dr

I don’t know how an ability is effectively used,

pls nerf it before i continue to lose by not knowing how to counter it.

P.S. I LOVE moa’ing cmdrs, it’s absolutely hilarious

P.P.S. There’s nothing “op” about it. You can still dodge in it, and have an evade (moa 5). It’s false a good player won’t get moa’d, but there’s a good chance you can evade some/most of the damage if you’re good.

Because the Dev’s believe slap stick or “trolly” things in game are funny. The way they added Moa to the Bloodstone Fen map may be funny but, it gets real annoying, real fast. Which is pretty much where Moa is in game in general. It’s just a huge “un-fun” mechanic that sucks the fun out of the game through sheer annoyance.

btw… in most circumstances Moa is not evadable. You can’t keep a constant eye on every Mesmer and Engi in a Zerg to know when to evade it. Even in 5v5’s you can’t successfully dodge most attacks.

DeWolfe.2174:

It’s just a huge “un-fun” mechanic that sucks the fun out of the game through sheer annoyance.

Awwww BOOOOOOO!!!!!

It’s probably like, 20% of the fun I have in this game.

It’s only 6 seconds now. Press 5 then double dodge and it will be over. It’s even easier to deal with in WvW because there’s much more space for you to flee to for LOS.

Simonoly.4352:

It’s only 6 seconds now. Press 5 then double dodge and it will be over. It’s even easier to deal with in WvW because there’s much more space for you to flee to for LOS.

Or just dodge the signet itself? It’s a 1s cast time where the kittening signet glows on top of the mesmer head kitten …

Jeknar.6184:

Simonoly.4352:

It’s only 6 seconds now. Press 5 then double dodge and it will be over. It’s even easier to deal with in WvW because there’s much more space for you to flee to for LOS.

Or just dodge the signet itself? It’s a 1s cast time where the kittening signet glows on top of the mesmer head kitten …

Good luck seeing this in a large fight. Still though, it’s fine atm. Still no real counter play (besides dodging around) but 6 seconds is survivable. The pin sniping thing is annoying and seems to be happening more often.

Thing is you’re just as likely to get boon stripped and pulled though. If the other side is pin sniping it will just come down to what they want to use to get it done.

Reh.5986:

Jeknar.6184:

Simonoly.4352:

It’s only 6 seconds now. Press 5 then double dodge and it will be over. It’s even easier to deal with in WvW because there’s much more space for you to flee to for LOS.

Or just dodge the signet itself? It’s a 1s cast time where the kittening signet glows on top of the mesmer head kitten …

Good luck seeing this in a large fight. Still though, it’s fine atm. Still no real counter play (besides dodging around) but 6 seconds is survivable. The pin sniping thing is annoying and seems to be happening more often.

Thing is you’re just as likely to get boon stripped and pulled though. If the other side is pin sniping it will just come down to what they want to use to get it done.

Don’t dive alone and yell to your enemy “HAI BOIS, I’M THE COMMANDER!”? Honestly, when I’m tagged I tell to a charr guardian friend roll ahead of me and he always get sniped in my place. Nobody expect a Human mesmer to be the actual commander.

Jeknar.6184:

Reh.5986:

Jeknar.6184:

Simonoly.4352:

It’s only 6 seconds now. Press 5 then double dodge and it will be over. It’s even easier to deal with in WvW because there’s much more space for you to flee to for LOS.

Or just dodge the signet itself? It’s a 1s cast time where the kittening signet glows on top of the mesmer head kitten …

Good luck seeing this in a large fight. Still though, it’s fine atm. Still no real counter play (besides dodging around) but 6 seconds is survivable. The pin sniping thing is annoying and seems to be happening more often.

Thing is you’re just as likely to get boon stripped and pulled though. If the other side is pin sniping it will just come down to what they want to use to get it done.

Don’t dive alone and yell to your enemy “HAI BOIS, I’M THE COMMANDER!”? Honestly, when I’m tagged I tell to a charr guardian friend roll ahead of me and he always get sniped in my place. Nobody expect a Human mesmer to be the actual commander.

I’m the idiot scrapper that runs way ahead, burning through stab and stun breaks like air lol. Half the time I was roaming around and saw orange swords so not even in squad. Seriously worst wvwer ever. Is funny when the other blob blows their bomb trying to kill me though.

Best wvw is swimming in red…as long as you have enough buddies to have a fighting chance.

Signet of humility is the least of ur problems if this is a big deal for you. Honestly go and learn the moves you get as a moa, it will help alot especialy the run one.

Getting double moa’d is a sure death for many people but at least it has a 180s cd…..plenty of others things that are a sure death for many people that have 60s cd.

TheHeretic.3529:

It can break the game for high-rank players that get targeted by enemy groups. If you’re turned into a moa 3-4 times in every fight then what is the point of playing in WvW?

This needs serious consideration for removal in WvW.

Seriously not an issue, on Piken it’s just an everyday occurrence for commanders. Our comms are hard focused quite a lot and they just get on with it. They corrupted, pulled and moa’d so many kitten times and just move on.

Just deal with it like the rest of us have.

The whole skill should be replaced for something else.
Its useless in PVE and overpowered in pvp+wvw

Malediktus.9250:

The whole skill should be replaced for something else.
Its useless in PVE and subpar in pvp+wvw

FTFY.

However, I wouldn’t mind a whole new skill at all for both my mesmer and engi (Toss Elixir X).

When I used to play competitive WvW (Zerg busting/20 v X), our driver would always get Moad.

That would not stop him. Leaps would still be called and he would moa leap into the zerg that outnumbered us.

Funny times. I should go look for some videos of it now…

Telemin.7380:

When I used to play competitive WvW (Zerg busting/20 v X), our driver would always get Moad.

That would not stop him. Leaps would still be called and he would moa leap into the zerg that outnumbered us.

Funny times. I should go look for some videos of it now…

Ah, but that involves using your head instead of just complaining on an internet forum! Far too much effort for most of these people.

Malediktus.9250:

The whole skill should be replaced for something else.
Its useless in PVE and overpowered in pvp+wvw

It’s only overpowered if the reciever is a complete nab. But that counts for most stuff.

Offair.2563:

Malediktus.9250:

The whole skill should be replaced for something else.
Its useless in PVE and overpowered in pvp+wvw

It’s only overpowered if the reciever is a complete nab. But that counts for most stuff.

Oh yes, because loosing your skills and traits for a whole 8 seconds is not overpowered

Malediktus.9250:

Offair.2563:

Malediktus.9250:

The whole skill should be replaced for something else.
Its useless in PVE and overpowered in pvp+wvw

It’s only overpowered if the reciever is a complete nab. But that counts for most stuff.

Oh yes, because loosing your skills and traits for a whole 8 seconds is not overpowered

*6 secs.

And like people mentioned several times in this thread you can dodge/block/invuln against the signet which have 1s cast time, obvious cast animation and 3 minutes cooldown.

Honestly, I feel Headbutt is much more a I-Win-Button than Signet of Humility.

Jeknar.6184:

Malediktus.9250:

Offair.2563:

Malediktus.9250:

The whole skill should be replaced for something else.
Its useless in PVE and overpowered in pvp+wvw

It’s only overpowered if the reciever is a complete nab. But that counts for most stuff.

Oh yes, because loosing your skills and traits for a whole 8 seconds is not overpowered

*6 secs.

And like people mentioned several times in this thread you can dodge/block/invuln against the signet which have 1s cast time, obvious cast animation and 3 minutes cooldown.

Honestly, I feel Headbutt is much more a I-Win-Button than Signet of Humility.

Also you don’t lose traits either. You used to be able make moa clones as a mesmer till ANet nerfed fun.

apharma.3741:

Also you don’t lose traits either. You used to be able make moa clones as a mesmer till ANet nerfed fun.

I think it do, at least some of them. Warrior for exemple don’t get the traited endure pain while they are on Moa form.