Guild Wars 2

Anet, make it happen.

They already said nope.

Because Devon thinks it is a form of character progression.

If you want to play alts in WvW, just do what Devon Carter wants you to do.

After you’re done playing for a couple hundred (or thousand, depending on what level of usefulness you want out of your wxp rank) hours on a character, THEN switch to a new one. That way you can really get that sense of progression you’ve been craving.

Unless arbitrary power spikes based on time played doesn’t sound like fun progression to you (not that anyone ever would think that). In that case, you should just treat wxp as a bonus chest machine.

Because it is progression.
It might also be due to the fact that some people uses different character for different things, and thus would want different abilities unlocked in WvW.
As far as we know they can’t have account-bound ranks but character-bound unlocks.

lordkrall.7241:

Because it is progression.
It might also be due to the fact that some people uses different character for different things, and thus would want different abilities unlocked in WvW.
As far as we know they can’t have account-bound ranks but character-bound unlocks.

They already sort of do. Note the account wallet and bank, but individual inventories.
There’s no technical reason they couldn’t make the rank count (and the upgrade points) be the same across all characters and allow each character to choose which upgrades they wanted.

lordkrall.7241:

Because it is progression.
It might also be due to the fact that some people uses different character for different things, and thus would want different abilities unlocked in WvW.
As far as we know they can’t have account-bound ranks but character-bound unlocks.

Because when I’m defending a tower, I really like to take the time to wonder:

“Is this the character out of 8 characters that has ac unlocked? Or catapult? Maybe treb? No? I’m going to switch characters and try to get the right one into the tower again through the zerg!”

I think this system really promotes strategic thinking and definitely helps me separate out the characters in my mind, because honestly, the professions are all the same, amrite?

Also as I noted in another thread, I really am not into ranks because of the abilities, I like it more because I get the kitten of seeing your rank increase and getting new titles. With the current system I feel such a lack of purpose when playing on alts because im currently rank 200 and when I get to rank 5 on an alt I get this sense that i haven’t actually gone anywhere.

It should be. Piling on in case it helps ANet rethink the implementation.

TheAmpca.1753:

Also as I noted in another thread, I really am not into ranks because of the abilities, I like it more because I get the kitten of seeing your rank increase and getting new titles. With the current system I feel such a lack of purpose when playing on alts because im currently rank 200 and when I get to rank 5 on an alt I get this sense that i haven’t actually gone anywhere.

Better yet, try being someone who regularly switches alts and keeps hearing one of his friends announce their rank whenever they rank up (I think they’re at 500 something now). Very disheartening, really, since I’m rank 5 on this alt ankitten ot moving anywhere.

It is not account bound so you can log your 5th scrub alt and get all the upgrades on that aswell! Why character level no account? Why map completion not account bound? Why gear not account bound? kitten sake

People QQed about not feeling like Billy Badkitten after hitting level 80. You wanted something to do? You got it! Progression must be vertical after all right. I can just see the amount of people burning out and not coming back.

I could care less about the rank. But with the current system if you played enough yoou would have enough rank points to get everything and then more. I would like them to just have the rank point as account bound rather than the ranks. Or at least add in other things we can do with rank points.

Because the metrics told him so.

Character bound progression does more harm than good. It increases burnout and locks out anyone who primarily spends their time playing alts, and what does it give to the game?

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Because the metrics told him so.

Lo! Praise be the metrics.

Banzie.5248:

They already said nope.

Sadly true.

The question is: Why?

Let your voices be heard.

We want account wide WXP!!! Let our alts live again!!!

But in case they do not, and you’re forced to farm rank points, here are the following things you should rank up.

The two guard buffs and that one defence against sieges. (max these three first.)

On that note, they want a use for the wxp trading post booster.

Sovereign.1093:

Let your voices be heard.

We want account wide WXP!!! Let our alts live again!!!

But in case they do not, and you’re forced to farm rank points, here are the following things you should rank up.

The two guard buffs and that one defence against sieges. (max these three first.)

On that note, they want a use for the wxp trading post booster.

I have a magical technique that will instantly make all boosters good.

Extend them to 4 hours or make them permanent upgrades.

I have foreseen that this will work because I am a wizard.

lordkrall.7241:

Because it is progression.
It might also be due to the fact that some people uses different character for different things, and thus would want different abilities unlocked in WvW.
As far as we know they can’t have account-bound ranks but character-bound unlocks.

That statement doesn’t make senes. I can use acount bound WXP to trait in both trait lines. So both characters could utilize both abilities. I stoped alting. I don’t care for the trait lines actually, but for the bonus chests. I don’t want to be too far behind in the “here you get lots of awesome stuff”-PvE rewards. So ranking up very high for those chests is almost the only way.

GW2 became grinding and does not reward alternative play styles. Soulbound WvW ranks just are adding to this. I know devs said it’ll stay souldbound. But that decision is still a punch in the player’s face.

Accountbound WXP pool and character bound WvW Abilities.

nuf said

Zenguy.6421:

Banzie.5248:

They already said nope.

Sadly true.

The question is: Why?

Because they don’t wanna admit they made the wrong design choice again.

It’s kinda dumb to say that it’s a strategy thing because by gold ranking you’ll unlock them all anyway :/

rhodoc.2381:

Accountbound WXP pool and character bound WvW Abilities.

nuf said

Exactly. You should have one overall WvW level based on the contribution of all your characters while at the same time each character gets the same amount of points to be used however you like. So if your warrior earns 200 levels and your mesmer 5, that gives both a rank of 205 plus 205 points each to customize each character.

Given that it will take thousands of hours to max out your rank, that ought to be enough “progression” to last anyone who gives a baby cat.

Cuchullain.3104:

rhodoc.2381:

Accountbound WXP pool and character bound WvW Abilities.

nuf said

Exactly. You should have one overall WvW level based on the contribution of all your characters while at the same time each character gets the same amount of points to be used however you like. So if your warrior earns 200 levels and your mesmer 5, that gives both a rank of 205 plus 205 points each to customize each character.

Given that it will take thousands of hours to max out your rank, that ought to be enough “progression” to last anyone who gives a baby cat.

exactly, but its anet we talking about here..

lordkrall.7241:

Because it is progression.
It might also be due to the fact that some people uses different character for different things, and thus would want different abilities unlocked in WvW.
As far as we know they can’t have account-bound ranks but character-bound unlocks.

Why isn’t s/t pvp “experience” character based to give us progression?

The different traits on different characters argument never made sense to me. A new character gets the first 5 lvs faster yes, but then every level after that takes the same amount of experience. So 2 characters to lv 100 takes the same time as getting 1 character to lv 196 (4 points different). 2 characters to lv 200 takes the same time as getting 1 character to lv 396 (still only 4 points different).

Basically this means you could have multiple alts, each specializing in something different….or 1 meta character with everything (less 4 points). So why not let us choose which character we want to play without punishing us because we like playing more then 1 character? What they have in place for WvW is almost the same as telling s/t PvPers that their rank is now tied to their character and not account.

They have given no logical reason as to why they want you to grind WvW rank on mutiple characters considering the max level progressions is around 900 levels (largest level accoutrement in game) it is silly.

Hell Spvp only goes up to rank 100 and is account bound…Yet the Anet devs just say ‘NO’ and expect that to be that. They haven’t gotten yet that if you want people to continue playing a video game you have to give them what they want, within reason of course.

I like to play with more than one character, so I played hours and hours and hours. And you know what? I’m exhausted and got nothing with my characters.

rhodoc.2381:

Accountbound WXP pool and character bound WvW Abilities.

nuf said

This would solve all the problems and make me play more than one character in WvW. I’d LOVE to run around on my ele or necro more often but it just feels like such a waste getting the WXP on them when I need so many more ranks on my main

This really has to be changed eventually as it’s such a glaring bad decision.

Welcome to being Don Quiote. How does jousting at windmills feel to you? My main contention with WXP and Ranks is the idea that they went from minor (1-5%) increases, to stuff like Applied Fortitude and the like. And here I thought the “progression” from Ranks/WvW Abilities wasn’t supposed to be imba, merely a sub-specialization …

They want us to have fellowship degrees in supply capacity. .

Hyung.6140:

rhodoc.2381:

Accountbound WXP pool and character bound WvW Abilities.

nuf said

This would solve all the problems and make me play more than one character in WvW. I’d LOVE to run around on my ele or necro more often but it just feels like such a waste getting the WXP on them when I need so many more ranks on my main

This really has to be changed eventually as it’s such a glaring bad decision.

Only 13,900 more levels to go before diamond league on ONE of my characters :-P

Advent.6193:

Welcome to being Don Quiote. How does jousting at windmills feel to you? My main contention with WXP and Ranks is the idea that they went from minor (1-5%) increases, to stuff like Applied Fortitude and the like. And here I thought the “progression” from Ranks/WvW Abilities wasn’t supposed to be imba, merely a sub-specialization …

This has been a major issue for me, they hide stat boosts behind rank and with the growing realization that the scoreboard is a bad joke, more and more people are going after these stacks. This is part of the reason why the Wxp blobs will continue.

Since all I do in WvWvW is roam with guildmates and we generally tap on stuff to draw out fights, switching up characters isn’t problematic. If I stilled really cared about defending and PPT then it would be a different story. The “play your way” bit is nothing but tripe at this point.

Because players are lazy, I said it in a different thread, if you make an alt it does not start at 80? Just because you put time into 1 character does not mean all characters should reap the benefits, new character, new progression. Should a fresh 80 come out rocking Guarded leech or Applied fortitude because you spent time on another character ? The answer is no.

I really do blame WoW for the ever growing laziness of players as it seems this is when MMO’s went laughable ez mode. Does anyone remember when you actually had to work at your character, its what gave players a sense of accomplishment for thier time invested.

Why do people keep using this same tired argument? The decision to make it character bound is what’s being questioned, to come back with “but its character progression” doesn’t make much sense. And comparing WvWvW ranks to starting a new class with different skills/new personal story/probably new race(see story) is equally problematic. Every class/race can solo/zerg/siege/repair just as well to gain ranks so how is Wxp showing character progression? Also, why don’t I have to start over in sPvP? If someone’s “fresh 80” comes in with guard leech, what is that taking from you? The player put in the time for that. And if by “work” you mean grind out even more of the same stuff? Thanks but no thanks, some of us like having fun without living here.

Nuzt.7894:

Because players are lazy, I said it in a different thread, if you make an alt it does not start at 80? Just because you put time into 1 character does not mean all characters should reap the benefits, new character, new progression. Should a fresh 80 come out rocking Guarded leech or Applied fortitude because you spent time on another character ? The answer is no.

I really do blame WoW for the ever growing laziness of players as it seems this is when MMO’s went laughable ez mode. Does anyone remember when you actually had to work at your character, its what gave players a sense of accomplishment for thier time invested.

Because working for account progression instead of character progression gives absolutely no sense of accomplishment and is totally “ez mode” Heck, why stop there, why don’t we just make everything give you 1WXP that way you REALLY feel like you invested your time well into your character when you hit rank 1 3 years later.

Working for account progression translates to laziness, again if it should be account bound why do alts not start at level 80 ? And yes getting the ranks and points on all characters is ez mode. You did the work on 1 character you should be rewarded for that 1 character, you did not do the work on 2, 3, 4, 5 ect character so why should they benefit.

Its disgusting how lazy players have become.

Nuzt.7894:

Working for account progression translates to laziness, again if it should be account bound why do alts not start at level 80 ? And yes getting the ranks and points on all characters is ez mode. You did the work on 1 character you should be rewarded for that 1 character, you did not do the work on 2, 3, 4, 5 ect character so why should they benefit.

Its disgusting how lazy players have become.

Lol, this smells so much like troll.

Sovereign.1093:

They want us to have fellowship degrees in supply capacity. .

No joke. Considering it takes a staggering 300 levels to max out supply, with the average level gain being 1 per hour or so depending on your server, that’s the equivalent of like 7 college classes of 40 hours each. All you students out there neglecting your studies for this game take note of the price you pay.

Nuzt.7894:

Because players are lazy, I said it in a different thread, if you make an alt it does not start at 80? Just because you put time into 1 character does not mean all characters should reap the benefits, new character, new progression. Should a fresh 80 come out rocking Guarded leech or Applied fortitude because you spent time on another character ? The answer is no.

I really do blame WoW for the ever growing laziness of players as it seems this is when MMO’s went laughable ez mode. Does anyone remember when you actually had to work at your character, its what gave players a sense of accomplishment for thier time invested.

Sure, ’cause we all signed on for an unpaid part-time job, not a game. Did you forget all the rest of the massive grind in this game?

Perhaps Anet should change its motto to “Arbeit Macht Frei” to motivate all the lazy, unproductive players out there who might think there is something more productive to do with their lives than work at a game for free.

Nuzt.7894:

again if it should be account bound why do alts not start at level 80 ?

1. In sPvP, alts do start at level 80.
2. In PvE, there are eight different classes which each have distinct playstyles and systems. There is one WvW levelling system.

Having it char bound is actively DISCOURAGING players from tying out alts. It’s annoying as hell having a pile of level 80 alts , all in exotics, that I took time levelling (so Bacon’s ‘lvl5 toon argument’ doesn’t apply to most of us), and then seeing my friends who decided to play guardian hit rank 300 and have some very nice bonuses on their toon that I am 200+ ranks from achieving on any of my alts (although I have the same total ranks as them).

Whenever I pick up an alt to play in wvw these days, the thought ‘waste of time’ washes through my head when you click that rank button- it’s actually getting to the stage where it’s putting me off doing wvw as the thought ’what’s the point, i’m just falling further behind the lazy one toon players who play less than me but have a higher rank on their one toon than I will ever have on any of my alts’.

I think Nuzt ’s post is a complete troll, or he completely misses the point being made.

Cuchullain.3104:

Nuzt.7894:

Because players are lazy, I said it in a different thread, if you make an alt it does not start at 80? Just because you put time into 1 character does not mean all characters should reap the benefits, new character, new progression. Should a fresh 80 come out rocking Guarded leech or Applied fortitude because you spent time on another character ? The answer is no.

I really do blame WoW for the ever growing laziness of players as it seems this is when MMO’s went laughable ez mode. Does anyone remember when you actually had to work at your character, its what gave players a sense of accomplishment for thier time invested.

Sure, ’cause we all signed on for an unpaid part-time job, not a game. Did you forget all the rest of the massive grind in this game?

Perhaps Anet should change its motto to “Arbeit Macht Frei” to motivate all the lazy, unproductive players out there who might think there is something more productive to do with their lives than work at a game for free.

If you feel you signed up for a job your doing it wrong. Its a free game that you choose to play, and massive grind ? who are you trying to fool ? You can achieve 80 in 5 hours.

Nuzt.7894:

If you feel you signed up for a job your doing it wrong. Its a free game that you choose to play, and massive grind ? who are you trying to fool ? You can achieve 80 in 5 hours.

Okay, there are a few fundamentals in this post that’re broken.

1. It is no longer possible to craft-level to 80. With crafting broken between 400 and 500, 5 professions are unable to reach cap and therefore only provide 7 levels, not 10. Even with this in mind, the amount of gold it costs to reach 500 with each of those weapon professions is quite high, about 150g. Converting from gems to gold, that’s probably at least $150.

Assuming you get the rest of those levels from CoF alt cycling, and each CoF run takes 10 minutes, that’s another 3 and a half hours. You need to be earning $100 an hour to be able to do what you claim.

2. There’s a link between “job” and “choose (not) to play”. Whether this is intentional or not, I don’t know, and I don’t know about you, but most people would probably go with “choose not to play”. This is not a healthy state of affairs for a video game.

Victory.2879:

Having it char bound is actively DISCOURAGING players from tying out alts. It’s annoying as hell having a pile of level 80 alts , all in exotics, that I took time levelling (so Bacon’s ‘lvl5 toon argument’ doesn’t apply to most of us), and then seeing my friends who decided to play guardian hit rank 300 and have some very nice bonuses on their toon that I am 200+ ranks from achieving on any of my alts (although I have the same total ranks as them).

Whenever I pick up an alt to play in wvw these days, the thought ‘waste of time’ washes through my head when you click that rank button- it’s actually getting to the stage where it’s putting me off doing wvw as the thought ’what’s the point, i’m just falling further behind the lazy one toon players who play less than me but have a higher rank on their one toon than I will ever have on any of my alts’.

I think Nuzt ’s post is a complete troll, or he completely misses the point being made.

I have an 80 of every class, I am well aware of how annoying it is to try and Wxp all of them. I still don’t think the points should be handed to me on a silver platter, now if your talking Rank Title then by all means, because it does not affect play. The points themselves, they can and will affect play.

Maybe its because I have been playing MMO’s since UO where players worked for everything and in PvP the bads lost everything. Or maybe its watching the MMO player base get lazier and more greedy over the years to the point where they feel everything should be handed to them on a silver platter. In the end you can want whatever you want, its your choice.

Sarrs.4831:

Nuzt.7894:

If you feel you signed up for a job your doing it wrong. Its a free game that you choose to play, and massive grind ? who are you trying to fool ? You can achieve 80 in 5 hours.

Okay, there are a few fundamentals in this post that’re broken.

1. It is no longer possible to craft-level to 80. With crafting broken between 400 and 500, 5 professions are unable to reach cap and therefore only provide 7 levels, not 10. Even with this in mind, the amount of gold it costs to reach 500 with each of those weapon professions is quite high, about 150g. Converting from gems to gold, that’s probably at least $150.

Assuming you get the rest of those levels from CoF alt cycling, and each CoF run takes 10 minutes, that’s another 3 and a half hours. You need to be earning $100 an hour to be able to do what you claim.

2. There’s a link between “job” and “choose (not) to play”. Whether this is intentional or not, I don’t know, and I don’t know about you, but most people would probably go with “choose not to play”. This is not a healthy state of affairs for a video game.

You can actually craft to 375 in each for roughly 100 gp, you will be within 10-12 levels of 80 depending on how you do it.

Nuzt.7894:

You can actually craft to 375 in each for roughly 100 gp, you will be within 10-12 levels of 80 depending on how you do it.

No it won’t; not since ascended crafting was implemented. It’ll get you to maybe 50.

I don’t think it’s a silver platter, being able to use your points on an account basis is the logical way of doing it if you want to have any class and build diversity in wvw.

And it’s precisely because they affect play that they should be account bound not character bound. Why should I be penalised for wanting to switch from my necro (say) to my ranger, where by your method and the current game system I can lose 250 vit points and 100 attack points compared to someone who has played the same or less time in wvw?

The current system doesn’t make any kind of logical sense, and is one of the worst ideas I have seen in any MMO I have played (and I’ve played for more years than I care to mention, and played some of the biggest grind games on the planet, such as 9 Dragons, Rappelz to mention but 2).

I do agree with you that the MMO population has come to expect too much reward for too little effort – just look at the rewards for champ farming, scarlet invasions, the amount of achievement points you can clock up in pve..then compare them to wvw rewards, and the amount of time it takes to get anything in wvw.

If there were decent rewards to levelling up ranks in wvw it might take some of the sting out of it- but 50+ greens in a row show just how bad it is when you can gain 2 rares in pve in a few minutes of auto attacking a boss that doesn’t really fight back.

Eventually pressure will force A net to reconsider. The wxp system is very very bad as it is currently.

Well, someone out there wanted to implement LOL type traiting for WVW. Whereas, the smarter E-sport developer would have just set the WXP at set amount, like our profession traits; so not everything can be chosen, and just specialize on a few skills with re-traitability.

It is a rushed design.

How it should have been done you ask?

Getting points as is okay, you level your ranks but at a certain point like lvl 80 – you can no longer level your rank points, but earn the ability to retrait it (or always have the option to retrait what you already have) to focus on certain specialties of some sort.

But this doesn’t mean you can’t gain wxp anymore. Those continue like our skills and we can amass those, but in this case for bonus chests like what we’ve been getting, or potential means of barter for gear in wvw.

This means the rank skills will be rebuilt again; so it won’t require so much points per skill.

That alone will fix 90 percent of what’s wrong with wxp. A 1000$ worth idea to fix the game given for free.

The devs already have the template, which is their earlier game design. They just need to be consistent and do trial and error. They can take back updates and put back updates.

Nuzt.7894:

If you feel you signed up for a job your doing it wrong. Its a free game that you choose to play, and massive grind ? who are you trying to fool ? You can achieve 80 in 5 hours.

I’m not doing it wrong, Anet is. There is no way you can level to 80 in 5 hours unless you buy the mats, at which point it isn’t a “free” game anymore, not that it ever was. If you farm them, that is a massive grind that takes forever nowadays because the drop-rate on crafting mats is abysmal.

Who are you trying to fool?

400 to 500 is even worse because the only way to get ascended mats is to grind for them. You can’t buy them. I have to do content most people hate like temples and dragons to get the dragonite I need for my first weapon(seriously who would do these if not for the rewards). That is grind, and grinding is not fun. It’s a job.

If Anet is too stupid or arrogant to realize this, then they better be ready to deal with the consequences. Modern MMO players are used to cutting their losses and moving on from games that have had the fun beaten out of them by clueless developers. Gone are the days when people would stick to a game for no other reason than they invested so much time in it they hate to see it go to waste.