Guild Wars 2

Considering 2 million copies were sold at launch, its tough not to acknowledge a drastic reduction in active populations. Leveling several alts recently, the starting areas are pretty devoid of other players, sPvP action has dropped dramatically and encountering a queu on 1/4 WvW maps for even a fraction of the day, let alone filling 4 maps is non existent for the vast majority (prolly all) of the servers wrt wvw action.

RE:Thiefs -this has been covered in far too many threads, but I think their risk/reward needs some adjustment. The mmo playerbase is widely known to favor playng balanced or even UP classes and thus why thiefs are so popular in wvw…actually anti-fotm! /sarcasm off. Any successful game needs to attract and maintain new players – a new player trying out the game today, hitting WvW on a sub 80 toon, is bound to get extremely frustrated with thiefs (more so then any other class, as they will often feel they had little opportunity to react), more then anything I think that is an issue if you want to build a stable and growing community.

as an aside…..People point to culling…how long do we give them to fix that before people admit, it wont be fixed?….how about design the game mechanics around what we are playing today (and its limitations) versus what may or may not exist in some undefined future date? /shrug

I’m still playing and enjoying pvp, though I wouldn’t be if the game had a sub, and w/o changes/improvements going fwd I doubt I would purchase any expansion to continue playing when that time arises.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Yes, I have beaten thieves in 1-vs-1 both in spvp and WvWvW. But but: *the point was: many people really really hate that invisible opponents can down them in couple of seconds. And yes, some people quit playing the game because of it. * This topic pops in most interesting surroundings. One starts to talk about GW2 in gym, pub, messenger chat. Yes, many people complain about the problem. Clearly it is an issue.

Well most MMO’s have stealth break on damage, or a target icon shows if you scroll over someone stealthed. Or they have less time alloted for in stealth over all/damage reduction to skills used in stealth along with very slowed movement.

However GW2 has none of the above.

Did the game fail us or did we fail the game? Is it our own behavior that makes the games less fun and enjoyable? Though there is very little reward for being good or honorable in the game. Hence the photo attached :-)

Everything in the game is about destruction or killing. With that, everything is disposable and made of tissue paper too. Making nothing in WvW (and most the game) of little value. Eventually, that was going to become a bore.

Arenanet has created a realm where creativity is frustratingly hampered. Especially when it comes to something as simple as appearance. I think if the control mechanism’s on appearance were removed, people would become much happier.

Thinking about creativity, there’s another reason why games like “The Sims” and “Farmville” are successful, the capacity to grow. In my opinion, they should have given players a place to build. Something to grow and nurture. There’s a large part of our humanity that’s been overlooked in the design of the game.

Dungeons…dungeon…dungeon… Jumping Puzzle… Jumping Puzzle… Jumping Puzzle…
Most of the game is designed around these two elements. Which, for someone like me who doesn’t like them, I know I’ll always be behind the curve. For the greatest rewards are gated within these. Making them make or break event’s on the greater economy of the game. This makes my future with this game bleak. For I know inflation will greatly outstrip my PvE income. FotM and Ascended gear compounds this greatly. On my 21st daily level 10, I finally received my first ring drop. Of course, it is a useless one for my main. Though the thought of repeating this day in and day out for months is not welcomed. In fact, it’s a highly frustrating turn off.

I feel the design team needs to make a huge change to include and entirely different player base. For now, it’s mostly repetitive and frenetic “ZOMG…KILL!” push button, adrenaline style, game play.

As annoying as Thieves, Mesmer’s, and culling are, there exists core issues that are more unrewarding and simply not fun or fulfilling.

If I had to pay to play the game I would have already canceled my subscription. And unless something is done soon about thieves I will soon quit playing. The main reason I play GW2 is because ofWvW. IMO, thieves are ruining WvW.

The ones who keep defending the class and say they are fine are delusional. Do you really think there would be so many threads complaining about them if they were fine? How many have been closed that you can’t see at the moment? Bet a lot more would be if it wasn’t for Christmas and a lot of mods are probably on vacation.

Whether the fix is as simple as fixing culling I do not know. But if culling can’t be fixed, and it completely takes a redesign of the class to fix them until they can fix culling….well then that is what they need to do.

DAOC stealth was basically permanent. But any damage would pop you out of stealth. If you had a DOT on you, you couldn’t restealth. Archer classes could spec with realm ranks to detect stealthers which could help a lot with countering them. You moved very slow while stealthed which made it challenging to get in position to attack. Assassin classes had to get right next to players to use positionals to attack and this often allowed you to be seen a split second before you could attack. None of this hit a button to transport you 600, 1220 units or whatever. It took a lot more skill basically than GW2 thieves IMO except for the permanent stealth.

Make it so any damage to them pops them out of stealth. If they have a condition on them, they can’t restealth. Make most it so they move like 2/3 normal speed while stealthed. They have to be within 20 units to use any attack from stealth. Give a chance to see stealther if close enough so they small window to attack or move. Allow rangers to spec to detect them stealthed. Maybe a pet ability. Or make a pet they can charm that excels at hunting them. Reduce burst damage overall but especially against opponents who spec high in toughness. All kinds of thing they COULD do since it seems they will never fix the culling problem. If they could, they already would have.

Ask for evidence = get trolled. Nice.

Why many people are no longer playing GW2? sorry professor I think you meant, Why many people are no longer playing WvW? generalizing is a common junior mistake which makes me think you might be just a student playing a teacher’s role :P

RedOwl.7496:

If I had to pay to play the game I would have already canceled my subscription. And unless something is done soon about thieves I will soon quit playing. The main reason I play GW2 is because ofWvW. IMO, thieves are ruining WvW.

The ones who keep defending the class and say they are fine are delusional. Do you really think there would be so many threads complaining about them if they were fine? How many have been closed that you can’t see at the moment? Bet a lot more would be if it wasn’t for Christmas and a lot of mods are probably on vacation.

Whether the fix is as simple as fixing culling I do not know. But if culling can’t be fixed, and it completely takes a redesign of the class to fix them until they can fix culling….well then that is what they need to do.

DAOC stealth was basically permanent. But any damage would pop you out of stealth. If you had a DOT on you, you couldn’t restealth. Archer classes could spec with realm ranks to detect stealthers which could help a lot with countering them. You moved very slow while stealthed which made it challenging to get in position to attack. Assassin classes had to get right next to players to use positionals to attack and this often allowed you to be seen a split second before you could attack. None of this hit a button to transport you 600, 1220 units or whatever. It took a lot more skill basically than GW2 thieves IMO except for the permanent stealth.

Make it so any damage to them pops them out of stealth. If they have a condition on them, they can’t restealth. Make most it so they move like 2/3 normal speed while stealthed. They have to be within 20 units to use any attack from stealth. Give a chance to see stealther if close enough so they small window to attack or move. Allow rangers to spec to detect them stealthed. Maybe a pet ability. Or make a pet they can charm that excels at hunting them. Reduce burst damage overall but especially against opponents who spec high in toughness. All kinds of thing they COULD do since it seems they will never fix the culling problem. If they could, they already would have.

How are sin’s not completely useless fodder in DAOC then? Or is the game fairly limited on AoEs?

Kiriakulos.1690:

I agree with Deniara Devious.3948’s opinions and believe they would greatly benefit this game, especially concerning points 2 and 3.

On previous interviews it’s been stated that dungeons are being reworked but nothing has been said about what this rework entails. A preview or more in-depth interview on the subject to gauge player’s opinions would probably be very productive to ensure what is released pleases the player-base.

I agree with this, but only if all players opinions were sought via an in game poll or similar.

Those who haunt the forums tend to represent such a small minority of the playerbase, and tend to be here for personal desires and agendas. I’ve seen more than one MMO make some pretty grevious changes because they implemented the changes based solely on feedback from a pretty vocal minority of players (who yell the loudest, etc) …. Only to create a hornets nest of angry reaction from players who disliked the changes and subsequently left the game.

The only way to gauge which direction to go safely is to include as many as possible in feedback. Making changes based on such a narrow window of feedback here, I fear, would be a mistake. Not that what’s being suggested here and other threads isn’t valid … There are some good points here … I’m just saying its probably best to get too much info/feedback than too little.

Most common reason I’ve seen is people hating the zerg-keep circlejerk of PvDoor-When-Nobody-Is-Around-To-Fight, move on to next empty keep. Recruit players that play when the bulk of players are not around for maximum make-benefit and win via poorly designed point scoring system. Combine this with a league system that allows players to jolly-hop like crazy things to servers edging ahead and you’ve got an epic fail in a system which is promoted as skill-based. When it clearly is not.

In a game which is meant to build team competitiveness there’s no incentive to stay on a side that loses for even a short period. And then the spiral kicks in.

Basic WvW design: (flawed, but) good. Scoring system and Meta: appalling.

Edit: Scrap the last one, ill just say I agree with the Thread Starter

Guild Wars 2 is still the #2 most wished for item on Amazon. I expect we will see a good influx of players after the various holidays.

I can’t really speak to the PvE content as i do WvW almost exclusively, however the problems with players eating up content too quickly for all types of play styles is a known problem in the industry. The costs to develop new content combined with operations costs need to remain less than the income gained by reducing churn (the number of folk dropping off vs the number of new folk coming in) for the game to stay in operation.

So then, players use up content and move on; subsequently those early adopter guilds lose members and begin to merge. In the larger picture there is a long tail of new players coming into the game. The volume and longevity of that tail of course will depend on how well the ArenaNet folk can manage their somewhat unexpected success.

~ Dao

I hardly think that the issue is Thieves. No matter how many lone glass cannon Thieves there are hunting down lone noobs and glass cannons, that does not turn the WvW map one colour.

The problem that is making many people disillusioned with WvW is the constant blowouts caused by mass server transfers to the winning server. Many of those complaining about Thieves would simply complain about another arbitrary scapegoat if Thieves were simply deleted from the game.

PvP in GW2 is objective based. Lone assassins killing lone vulnerable targets do very little work towards hitting those objectives. They are pretty much a tangent to the actual game type.

Do people who specialize their class to eliminate single targets with quick hit and run attacks better at eliminating single targets with quick hit and run attacks? Sure they are, just as someone who builds a class to support large groups will be better at supporting large groups. If you specialize, you should have an advantage in the field you are specializing into.

I am pretty sure that people aren’t leaving the game because they don’t like to fight Thieves. They are leaving because WvW is a mess, but Thieves are not the reason.

And before some comments about how “you’re a Thief so of course you don’t think Thieves are imbalanced”, I have a level 29 Thief (tanky/support/controlling style in sPvP), a balanced/tanky Guardian, and main a balanced Mesmer.

Sunspots.9861:

Your server is nothing like Tarnished Coast. Your issue is one of perception not facts.

this is because TC is what us less populated servers like to call a…..
zerg server!

Massive spike dmg -
I dont see how the massive spike damage only relates to thieves, they are 1 if the most obvious practitioners of it sure, but Warriors kill shot is the same, i find the problem doesnt really arise in smaller fights with 8ppl or less it comes about when there is a lot going on and you take massive burst damage in about 3 seconds or 1 shot in the case of killshot from ‘somewhere’. The warrior could be at the clip for your render range which makes that even worse, debatable if he is rendered on screen. The thief will just blind side you whilst your dodging AoE’s pets and a guardian.

No one likes getting 1 or 2 shot in a couple of seconds, without having much of a chance to react, CC in DAoC generated so many complaints because of this reason “didnt get to do anything”.

No WvW rewards -
DAoC had realm abilities which were freaking awesome(with long cool downs). I have crap loads of badges piling up in my invo, nothing to spend them on, not much point in WvW’ing. Taking points never appealed to me in MMO’s so sPvP is out, i want to roam, like DAoC allowed smaller groups to do.

1 place for 2nd to top end gear -
Why oh why is grinding fractals day in day out the only way to get higher end gear, who thought that was a good idea? Surely they could of added a new dungeon(the fractal) combed over the old dungeons(lol they need it with some of the bugs)and added the special jewels currency to the game in all dungeons. Maybe from dragons as well, i can safely say i have never got a good drop from a dragon chest, ever. Which brings me to my next point.

Gear-
Best place to get gear is the mystic forge, no contest, i have got almost nothing useful from chests, to me this seems really lame. Im going to play the tp, buy up rares and throw them in the forge and look out its raining exotics.

Kolly.9872:

so you wrote 2 posts for just telling us that people are quitting the game cos of thieves?

LOL that’s what I thought. If you think thieves are OP in pvp, go make one and own everyone. This thread needs to be renamed “What I don’t like about GW2”. He has a point about the boring end content though. GW2 pays for it’s superb accessibility with reduced complexity and far less scope for buildcrafting than GW1. The PvE content on offer is pretty dull and the fractcal grind doesn’t help either. However the WvW meta is still very active and it’s enough to keep me playing, especially with the upcoming updates in Feb.

First and foremost let me say this. Causation and Correlation are completely different. People are not in mass in the starting areas probably because, the game is not brand new and not everyone is in one place all starting at the same times. WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED? Does this mean there are not more people in the other areas? I’d be pretty kitten if there were more people in the starting area then the main gathering areas, that means the people staying are far fewer then the constant stream of new players who will not stay!

I have played on a few servers, now settling into Devona’s Rest. Devona’s Rest was not very high ranked when me and my friend came to play. We have ele’s, necros, mesmers, guardians, warriors, I play a engineer most of the time, we have few rangers and fewer thieves. WvWvW is about working with a team, the only time I see people dying to thieves is when they are alone and being alone in a world wanting to kill you is never a good thing. We smash thieves, we have ranked up Devona’s Rest considerably without the use of thieves but instead just flat out hard labor. The major servers are losing population just as are the smaller ones, Vanilla WoW was just as bad if not worse.

Let me talk about WoW for a second or three: Rogues. That is more then enough to make people shudder all the way up into WOTLK. TBC my rogue was a king, you didn’t see me until I was face sitting you then going after your buddies who, while you were too busy screaming at your computer, you forgot to warn. Man the good ole days. That was several years later they finally started taking away some of the raw potential of the Rogue. Thieves are childs play and while yes I have a while in stealth, nothing compared to my 90% up time in stealth in pvp on WoW and near 500/1 kill death ratio. If a Thief is killing you too much look at your group and if it is safe to be with them. What is your biggest problem? Detection, reaction, dps, your system?

I could ramble all day about why the OP does not have a PhD but I will point out one big flaw: logic and way of speech. Causation and Correlation are something you rarely miss out on. as an undergrad in computer sciences, a Masters in Criminology, a Degree in Culinary, and practical knowledge of college professors as my uncle works at UCLA – YOU WILL RARELY SEE A COLLEGE PROFESSOR MAKE A MISTAKE BETWEEN CAUSATION AND CORRELATION AND LEAVE IT UNCHECKED. That is your job not to mistake the lines and educate properly. Is there a faulty share setting value or is the value incorrect? Causation or Correlation…

My girlfriends (read plural) play on lower quality computers then me because they frankly don’t need 80+fps to win. Sometimes I am afraid to let them on my machine because they would make me look bad. At 10fps on WvW with delays up in the second area she destroys everything that moves as an ELE! AN ELE!

She can play on a lower quality computer and if you are saying we need to make a game fair for your lower computer you might as well tell the world to turn in their highspeed net and electronic development because you can’t afford to keep up.
If you cannot afford to play on a reasonable machine with reasonable net your priorities need to change. Do not waste money on a game when you should be first working on a better computer or better net or even the finances to maintain/afford them. 3Mbps should be more then enough if your computer can handle the lower graphic settings adequately. A computer capable of playing GW2 on amazing settings is around 300 for a desktop and you can use your old screen etc.

I killed bunch of people on Elona Reach main zerg server before using thief. They even opened a topic complaining about thief being OP and can’t do nothing about sipping their sieges away. What you dealing with Devona’s Rest are just scrubs thief. =/

3 very good points by the OP.

Point 1. Problem with thieves isn’t stealth, it’s that damage is too high in this game. Stealth is actually far more difficult to use in GW2 than in most MMOs, but people die so quickly in this game it makes the combination of very high burst with stealth too much to deal with. Doesn’t matter that thieves are squishy or that there are counters to stealth. Even the best counter is worthless if you die before you see the enemy player.

Point 2 and 3 the OP is dead on.

Surbrus- PvP in GW2 is objective based. Lone assassins killing lone vulnerable targets do very little work towards hitting those objectives. They are pretty much a tangent to the actual game type.
You are wrong on this in WvWvW. As the supply lines route play a big part of it. You can have a group of people guarding a yak 24/7 and one thief can still kill it no matter what you do. Sure you can kill them, but not before that yak dies. The only other class I have seen close to doing this is an elementalist, but they can be SEEN.

Thieves are broken. Having played stealth classes in pretty much every MMO since UO ( We got nerfed there and people still got got so kitten they made a whole realm so they didn’t have to deal with us or any type of ganking.) DaoC had it just about right on the way a stealth class should work and they still torked people off.

I am a Thief, stealth and the various ways we can get into it while in combat, abuse the poorly coded engine, and heal and remove conditions, stake people, etc are bad game design and should have never went live in the first place. The whole initiative system is just bad design on a stealth class. They told them so in beta. It will be changed or they will lose players, probably a lot of them. It has happened in every game since UO and it will happen with this one.

Getting Killed by Thiefs in 1/100th of a second.

How is it thieves can move just as fast(or in some cases faster) when in stealth anyway? Isn’t the act of stealth, i.e. sneaking around in the shadows, supposed to be a slow affair? In almost every other game I’ve played, when a thief-type class goes into sneaky-mode they have to do it while moving slowly.

More to the point, I would rather they just change the name from “stealth” to “invisibility” since it’s obvious there is little hiding going on, but rather some form of magical planar channeling in which hitting a solid object with your sword somehow doesn’t clue your eyes in as to where said object is.

QQing aside, it’s the almighty culling issue that is the real culprit. And judging by ANet’s sidestepping of this issue repeatedly, something tells me there is little they can do about it.

I hope I’m wrong of course. :/

Obsi

I don’t care about thieves/eles/warriors perhaps being stronger than intended (particularly eles, kitten so broken.)

What I do care about is the fact that there have been no fixes for the broken rendering that has existed since launch 4 months ago and still continues to make WvW unplayable.

Mesmer portal? HF vs invisible enemies. Group stealth? HF, they won’t render until your group is dead. Run into big enemy zerg? HAH, you wish you could see them.

GW2 has a lot of potential, it is a pity that this engine bug ruins so much.

Until it is fixed I’ve found other games to fill my time with.

I just want to point out that, it’s a really really bad idea for the developers to when designing gameplay take into account players with connections so horrific that they have 2 full seconds of input lag. Such would transform even the most complex of game into FarmVille. With that said i have yet to play the game. I’m still waiting for the client to download. Needless to say I’ll now be rolling thief.

I’d be okay with Regional WvW servers that are disconnected from PVE servers but I think it would take a pretty big reshuffling of people that might cause more hard feelings than solve them. The system is not so broke that it requires a major fix to operate, but to operate better it would require alot.

fullkorn.4350:

I just want to point out that, it’s a really really bad idea for the developers to when designing gameplay take into account players with connections so horrific that they have 2 full seconds of input lag. Such would transform even the most complex of game into FarmVille. With that said i have yet to play the game. I’m still waiting for the client to download. Needless to say I’ll now be rolling thief.

^ LOL

Choice A: challenge myself
Choice B: forrest gump my way through W3

Ding! Choice B

-_-

Ok lets nerf stealth. Sounds fair to me. Then we have to:

Nerf 100 blades / shout heal, Double dagger ele, Guardian bunker/heal and Mesmer confusion/shatter. Then of course we will need all ranged classes nerfed because, well then ranged classes will be OP. Better yet. Lets simply remove all but one class and only have one viable build for that class.

P.S. Anyone that went back to ToR because they wanted more balance… LOL… Just LOL… I guess you have never dealt with the smuggler/agent.

For someone that teaches game design you show a serious lack of critical thinking. I guess its true. You can get anything from a box of Cracker Jacks.

Are there class balance issues in GW2? Yes. There are some huge gaps between classes, but Thieves are by no means the most OP class in the game. Although they could be the most annoying….

Are there game design flaws that really need addressed? Again Yes. There are many mechanic issues that need to be addressed and honestly when many of those issues are resolved you will find the number of over all complaints go down.

I’ll tell you why people are quitting WvW and I don’t need 15,000 characters to do it:

THERE ARE ONLY TWO MAPS TO PLAY ON.

How can you launch a game with 25+ PvE maps and only 2 unique WvW maps and claim WvW is a major part of the game?

Here are the reasons I believe WvW is dying. These do not necessarily reflect how I personally feel, but more general statements:

1. Lack of WvW progression. WoW has changed the typical player into wanting to always work towards gear and character progression. WvW has none of this. You don’t earn better gear or better abilities. The only “reward” for WvWing is the internal feeling of fun and accomplishment, no shiny swords or anime-looking armor.
2. Two maps = “been there done that.” Imagine how many times the typical WvW player has dropped a ram on Durious, fired a treb from Stonemist, repaired a wall on Dreadfall Bay or escorted a dolyak.
3. Being “nightcapped” or server losing in WvW. I am sure tens of thousands of players have stopped playing because of the frustration that comes from losing matches and going to bed after fighting hard all day just to lose everything while they sleep. There are very few servers that have winning records. You see time and again a T2 server move up to T1 only to be “nightcapped” and drop back out of T1 as their playerbase loses heart.
4. Snowball effect. WvWers have fun when there are many people WvWing, both friends and enemies alike. As people stop playing, it snowballs and less and less people play. It’s easy and fun to go into WvW with 30 guildies by your side, but when there are only 5 guildies online, it’s tough to do anything in WvW.
5. Lack of communication from Anet. WvWers see snowballs fights and fractal dungeons but really nothing for them.

If I could wave a magic wand, I would do the following:

a) Close down the top nine servers from each bracket (NA and EU) or 18 in total.
b) Create 6 international WvW-centered servers, with no region or nation tags, with new names and tell the WvWers to pick one of those and go there.
c) Then immediately make Ascended Gear available from WvW.

This would shake up the status-quo and concentrate the WvWers into 6 servers that would have better 24/7 coverage and breathe new life into WvW. You would also give players a “carrot” of item progression.

kv has some good points although I would say you would be better off with 9 servers and not 6 but international is the way to go and should have been that way from day 1 and there were a ton of us who knew that their concept would be problematic and ofc it was.

But that is really only one problem
Culling is imo the biggest issue. It is really a disgrace it is in this state for such a long period
I think GW2 can go down in the line of history of games who marketted mass fighting etc and just simply failed. The best game honestly you have to go all the way back to DAoC which, admittedly had some bad lag and sometimes very bad lag, was a much better experience then these other games which claimed would have mass pvp and were just ridiculous systems and poor coding like Aion, Warhammer, Star Wars etc

The fact that this is basically maxed out total population and instanced and they still cannot render players regardless of computer power is outrageous.

As others have mentioned the game is free, so I don’t go full fury about it, cause I paid less for this game then the dozens of failures that preceded this

Fact is and everyone can be against this statement is you cannot have a quality game with a healthy population that lasts without carrots. It is plain and simple. I’m sure people can say gw1 lasted a long time and it did but again it was free.

I like the “no holy trinity” I like that everyone pretty much is equal as far as total stats go and people that play 20x what others do do not have any advantage is nice.
But I think it is all too easy to see that WvW success, which btw is solely determined by being a rank, is based on population, time, and coverage.

Is still til this day amuses me that companies cannot simply look at concepts that people enjoyed and create their game with those concepts in mind. Not a clone or a reskin which most games are but understand the successful concepts of the past and apply them

And as far as theives go. I cannot think of a single pvp game where people did not complain about stealth classes. I mean really back to WoW stunlock rogues the concept just simply doesn’t work, gets completely overdiscussed on forums, or they get nerfed to oblivion. Just simply stop making that type. I mean really lotro was probably the most realistic thief every other game just creates a ridiculous archtype

Nerf Thieves? You realize that we have been nerfed into the ground and our only viable specs are those that abuse culling or burst and kill in one hit? All of our specs also die in one hit, to anything. Maybe, if people actually played a thief, you guys can understand how frustrating that is that I’m forced to play a certain way in PvP. This game could use some balancing for sure, but so can every game. It’s not just so simple as coming up with a few ideas to nerf classes to fix or balance PvP. There are tons of variables.

There’s lots of people playing. They’re just a lot more spread out now that the game has been out a few months. The population caps should be increased on each server.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Kolly.9872:

so you wrote 2 posts for just telling us that people are quitting the game cos of thieves?

My original idea was to write just one long post, but these forums don’t allow over 5000 characters per message. I had to split my message into three. The last two are NOT about thieves and in fact the 1st one is not just about thieves. That is why I put the character class thief into quotes: “thief” problem. The problem of too fast spike damage affects all character classes, combined with culling issues + lag especially in some WvWvW servers it is serious. Did you actually read my posts?

I was wishing for constructive criticism and ideas how to fix the problems, because the GW2 player base is bleeding.

Deniara

I think the real problem is haste. It needs to be eliminated immediately. It is the number one reason why people are unable to counter thieves and other classes with spike damage abilities. It does not need to be in the game.

We should really all be petitioning the devs to remove haste, post-haste. All it does is set players against each other and embitter them against one or two particular classes.

when you spend more time censoring people complaining about a problem, than fixing the problem…thats a problem. I’m honestly shocked to see that cheaters and exploiters get more privileges than people voicing their views. it makes me feel like investors who don’t play matter more than players who do pay.

Hey look, another thread complaining about thieves. What about us thieves who don’t run backstab spec in wvw? Should we be nerfed as well (stealth duration and whatnot) simply because people don’t like backstab thieves? I don’t care for the backstab spec atm personally and don’t care for thieves who run only that spec. But that’s not because of the damage they do but because they’re worthless in WvW. Oh wow, you killed that one guy real quick but what about the rest of the zerg? I run S/D in a slightly more tanky build and can pretty much get away from, or catch anyone I’m fighting. The only time I run backstab is in dungeons for the extra dmg of backstab but I keep my S/D spec and sword handy for AoE.

Also, if you want stealth nerfed, then expect the thief to get a toughness bonus. It’s always been rouge/thief class = hard hitting, stealthy, but also squishy. Even in my dueling spec I’m still more squishy than an ele.

This argument has been around since I’ve started playing MMOs. People always complain about stealth classes hitting too hard and how they need to be nerfed. But offer very little of a solution other then “nerf them so I can kill them instead”. I remember playing SWTOR as an infiltrator spec shadow and people complained about stealth abilities there too, same with rouges on RIFT. What is the point of making a stealth class that can’t stealth that often? Might as well call him a meat shield instead of a thief.

I think the main reason people are leaving is lack of purpose. At any given time I log in I can usually get the unmanned buff in 2 of the 4 battlegrounds. Even if I play in a bg that doesn’t have the outmanned buff it makes putting in a lot of effort kind of pointless knowing the ticks aren’t going to add up to much with those 2 unmanned BG’s giving 0 points (and this is in Tier 1, I’d imagine other tiers are worse).

Want to add a fresh gust to Guild Wars? Make it just that- GUILD wars.

Add a new pvp type: sWvW.

Guilds sign up and must have a minimum of n players.
Guilds can challenge each other, they get a map similar (but slightly smaller) than the current WvW maps.
Game could be either point driven or fixed time driven (3 hours?).
Ranking based on ELO system.

Would lead to some epic battles. PRX vs WM. MERC vs SYN… whatever. Guilds would now be fighting for their names so there would be focus and drive, and the better teams would win and get higher ranked.

No more gaggles of people hanging in the starting zone or goofing off in the jumping puzzle because they are getting rolled outside.

Would probably kill off what is left of WvWvW, but within a few weeks WvWvW is headed for (even more of ) a ghost town as it is.

Caedmon.6798:

Hm Great post actually,agree with most,espec the part about thieves.Also know some people that are taking a break untill things get a bit more balanced in that department.I know how to counter most thieves,some i cant kill ,some keep running away and are invis 99% of the time,so i never even see them,i honestly do not like fighting thieves aswell,simply because you said it,i dont like to fight someone i cannot see,its not fun and not fair.I refuse to go into a cat and mouse game though,if i try to kill them and they pop invis and pop out in the distance to try again,ill turn around and go do something else,ill try to actually Ignore most thieves for now,since they all play the Exact same way anyways.

There is no thief who plays different then the thief you saw 10 minutes ago,they all have the exact same build,weapons and ""style" of play,its like facing the same enemy over and over again,in all other classes i see variation,thieves,not at all.Solution maybe,reduce speed of thieves while being invis by 30 – 50 % ,reduce time they are able to go invisi,because they can be invis 99% and pop out for a sec to go back in stealth again, No class should be able to be invis 99% of the time,its a horrible idea.

@Kolly..could say the same about you,You just make a reply to say That ? Ohh now i see,you’re a thief!

lol reduce the spd of thieves while invis they just got boosted to 50% while invis lmao way to go anet!!

Squally.4963:

Hey look, another thread complaining about thieves. What about us thieves who don’t run backstab spec in wvw? Should we be nerfed as well (stealth duration and whatnot) simply because people don’t like backstab thieves? I don’t care for the backstab spec atm personally and don’t care for thieves who run only that spec. But that’s not because of the damage they do but because they’re worthless in WvW. Oh wow, you killed that one guy real quick but what about the rest of the zerg? I run S/D in a slightly more tanky build and can pretty much get away from, or catch anyone I’m fighting. The only time I run backstab is in dungeons for the extra dmg of backstab but I keep my S/D spec and sword handy for AoE.

Also, if you want stealth nerfed, then expect the thief to get a toughness bonus. It’s always been rouge/thief class = hard hitting, stealthy, but also squishy. Even in my dueling spec I’m still more squishy than an ele.

This argument has been around since I’ve started playing MMOs. People always complain about stealth classes hitting too hard and how they need to be nerfed. But offer very little of a solution other then “nerf them so I can kill them instead”. I remember playing SWTOR as an infiltrator spec shadow and people complained about stealth abilities there too, same with rouges on RIFT. What is the point of making a stealth class that can’t stealth that often? Might as well call him a meat shield instead of a thief.

stealth is fine long as u cant come out fo stealth doing 7k dmg and quickly go right back into stealth.. u would think that would be a simple logical thing to understand no? guess not :/

if the theif can kill you in a few hits, they will die in fewer hits, espicially if you constantly immobolozie them or knock them down once.

To the OP
That has got to be one of the most bs post I have seen. I thought you had some real info to provide after claiming to be a game designer and teaching it.

Then you say the no.1 reason people are leaving GW2 is because of the thief?
Really? Most people who play GW2 probably don’t play wvw to begin with or don’t play it as much as pve. Yet they are quiting to go back to wow or swtor because of one class?
They are going back to swtor? Really? The controls in that game are horrible.
Most people who left that game would never go back to it.

Didn’t GW2 win game of the year last year. They must have done something right.
My suggestion to you mister game designer develop your own game, make millions when it sells a ton then come and give credible reasons why it sold so much.

The part about the end game content I tend to agree with, but your whole post was because YOU may quit because you don’t like the way ANET designed one class.

gg necroing a thread from december, it’s not even relevant anymore since thieves got multiple nerfs between then and now

also, for a proclaimed university game designer, the OP had some very bad ideas (limiting dmg per hit, rly?? and even worse, limit it to a part of the max HP bar… did you actually think???)

It beggers belief that mmo designers continue to make the same class design mistakes over and over.

The invisible class should not have insane damage levels. It is that simple. No class in any mmo should be able to drop out of invisibility and 2s kill any other class. thats really bad design yet its still perpetuated.

So yeah OP is right – thieves are silly overpowered and ANET are still skirting round it.

GW2 is like any product on the market. The create it, sell it and improve it as they see fit. In turn customers will like it or hate it, play it or move on.

Pick your reasons for liking the game and continue playing, or pick your reasons for hating it and move on.
The key words are “continue playing” and " move on". Simple stuff.

Hi everyone,

Please refrain from necroing threads.
The thread is closed.