Guild Wars 2

Hi Everybody,

After playing Gw2 for some months almost all my friends left the game and maybe arenanet can take this as a feedback on why so many people stopped playing this amazing game, the reason is balance, the balance on pvp. Currently there is a huge problem with one profession that is making the wvwvw to become a thiefvthiefvthief , all of my friends got sick of getting killed by 2 or 3 hits by an stealth thief who keep stealth for a lot of time even if already hitted you and what is worse killing you stealth while someone is resurrecting you. The other day we went to puzzle and 2 thiefs killed 6 of us because they was hitting stealth almost the whole combat and they hit hard.

Please dont take this only as b.hurt as it is not only the reason of why I am posting this today (never post on forums because I like to play and not to write) but also to take this as feedback on why a lot of people is leaving to other games even when I consider this one of the best games I ever played.

Hope arenanet do something about this.

I really don’t know what to say here but 6 of you and could not even force the 2 thieves to run away? First, were 6 of you all 80’s? and fully exotic? if not, that was the first problem. You need to max out traits and max out gears. This game is not all skills base, horizontal progression as ANet claimed on their manifesto. Gears and levels DOES matter in this game.

If your group were all deck out in level and gears yet still could not do anything to 2 thieves then the whole group needs to review the group playing style.

If they just allowed the sPvP characters to play in Wv3 this would be a non issue. No more gear disparity.

Kodiack.2783:

If they just allowed the sPvP characters to play in Wv3 this would be a non issue. No more gear disparity.

That was what I expected when I pre-purchased this game and all other gears/weapons are just skin as League of Legends. But I don’t think the game is heading in that direction.

I am not going to lie, I too have had friends leave the game because of thieves.

Anet has been very clear that WvW uses PvE stats and gear…

Draygo.9473:

Anet has been very clear that WvW uses PvE stats and gear…

Yeah well since they had no problem introducing more vertical progression with the ascended garbage, I don’t see why they can’t just make gear/levels not matter in WvW like it is in Spvp. That would fix allot of issues.

Roargathor.2743:

Draygo.9473:

Anet has been very clear that WvW uses PvE stats and gear…

Yeah well since they had no problem introducing more vertical progression with the ascended garbage, I don’t see why they can’t just make gear/levels not matter in WvW like it is in Spvp. That would fix allot of issues.

Ego.

Admitting that the current implementation of Wv3 is poor would hurt a developers ego. It would take a very big man to admit that their vision of Wv3 has failed or could have been better implemented.

-K

Wasabee.5031:

I really don’t know what to say here but 6 of you and could not even force the 2 thieves to run away? First, were 6 of you all 80’s? and fully exotic? if not, that was the first problem. You need to max out traits and max out gears. This game is not all skills base, horizontal progression as ANet claimed on their manifesto. Gears and levels DOES matter in this game.

If your group were all deck out in level and gears yet still could not do anything to 2 thieves then the whole group needs to review the group playing style.

What is the use of making this useless comment? He said his friends already left.

People are leaving this game because of this thief, and this is a fact.
I have friends who left this game because of this stupid thing too.

I finished PvE, I did all dungeons, only thing giving me fun in this game at the moment is WvW, but thieves are destroying that fun. I’m not playing WvW so much like I used to do before just because of this issue.

Come to think about it.

GW2 is the first MMO I’ve played that has a stealth class , with no stealth detection mechanic available to counter stealth kitten

so yea.. the current mechanics behind stealth are a gamebreaker for some.

-K

Signed, when J.R. Tolkien wrote his book, I’m sure the ring bilbo (the thief) baggns got wasn’t supposed to mean that every stinking other style if fighter couldn’t go invis. Especially in plain open fields standing right in front of you.

Despite attacks from the grammar special forces reserve units, stealth is broken in this game — especially in WvW. Fixes could maybe include such things as larger CD’s in WvW only to counter culling issues (don’t like this as much) or maybe creating some abilities to actually penetrate stealth…you know…a counter skill (like this more). The current solution of mindless AoE is super swell but wouldn’t it be nice to pop that Clearvision utility that gives enhanced perception for 5 seconds on a 60 sec CD? That doesn’t seem OP to me….

Stealth + Burst Dmg = Broken

The OP’s communication was perfectly clear – attacking his grammar is simply weak and dodges the issue.

Stealth + Burst Dmg = Broken

You got the equation wrong. Per the recently described class philosophies

Stealth + Single target damage + MOBILITY = BROKEN

I emphasize the mobility, as it’s huge in WvW, and not nearly as big a deal in PvE. In WvW, Mobility+Single target damage by itself, without stealth, would result in a powerful combo. Adding the natural ability for thieves to stealth, and then adding in the culling & lag that comes with WvW, is vastly overpowered.

Bottom line is either people leave, make a build entirely devoted to warding off thieves (not killing them, you can’t unless they let you), or accept being prey for fishbowl fighters.

-Jeff

Kodiack.2783:

Roargathor.2743:

Draygo.9473:

Anet has been very clear that WvW uses PvE stats and gear…

Yeah well since they had no problem introducing more vertical progression with the ascended garbage, I don’t see why they can’t just make gear/levels not matter in WvW like it is in Spvp. That would fix allot of issues.

Ego.

Admitting that the current implementation of Wv3 is poor would hurt a developers ego. It would take a very big man to admit that their vision of Wv3 has failed or could have been better implemented.

-K

They had the balls to admit their implementation of Ascended gear was wrong and they planned make it available through other modes besides FOTM. They are bending to the will of someone higher up. NCSOFT is probably pressuring Anet to cave in to the “Working model” (Gear treadmill) over innovative game-play. The same thing happened to Age of Conan. When Funcom Failed to deliver on their initial promises for skill based PvP, combined with bugs and incomplete content, the game was hemorrhagic players, so the money heads demanded they switch gears and WOWify the game in order to retain what players they could. It was an epic fail. If they had stayed the course and kept item stats out of PvP, the game would still have more than 25 players. I can see Gw2 going down the same road, and I will be here to say “I told you so” when the first round of server merges come 3 months from now.

If 2 thieves killed the 6 of you, it’s because you’re all pretty terrible. I mean thieves are mildly broken, but only in 1v1. Which is irrelevant to the grand scheme of WvW.

the point is that u cant kill something that u cant see. it suck when you see your hp go down really fast and cant see the guy thats hitting u

Svarty.8019:

Double dagger elementalist is the new thief.

Oh snap they have stealth, can dish over 10k dmg in one move from stealth then re-stealth before being attacked, and can stomp from stealth?

Rhyis.7058:

If 2 thieves killed the 6 of you, it’s because you’re all pretty terrible. I mean thieves are mildly broken, but only in 1v1. Which is irrelevant to the grand scheme of WvW.

What is the use of making this useless comment? He said his friends already left.

People are leaving this game because of this thief, and this is a fact.
I have friends who left this game because of this stupid thing too.

I finished PvE, I did all dungeons, only thing giving me fun in this game at the moment is WvW, but thieves are destroying that fun. I’m not playing WvW so much like I used to do before just because of this issue.

I do not expect to see a nerf coming to thieves any time soon. Sure they are a pain when more than one singles you out and drains your health in seconds, but they are not all that powerful in team fights. To my understanding, the designer of the thief class has so much seniority that most of the people at ANET are too afraid to stand up to said person, which in the end will result in other classes facing nerfs, the thief remains just as strong, and other classes begin to appear less viable in WvW. In the long run, the only way that perfect balance will ever be reached is if all classes have the same base stats, utility skills, weapon skills, and receive similar stats from equivalent traits. That is not a place any developer should want to go. Ideally, classes should complement one another to a point that makes every class not only viable for all styles of game play but wanted to be played by all styles of MMO gamerz. ANET attempted to push for class complementing through the implementation of combo fields. Whether or not combo fields were successful at inducing an urge to pair complementing classes, well I could not tell you.

Svarty.8019:

Double dagger elementalist is the new thief.

D/D ele can NEVER be the new thief. Beside of not killing me that fast, D/D ele can’t even kill me in WvW.
Btw, we are talking about thief here…

Anet put out a hint about dealing with thieves in its latest patch update .. indicating AOE would stop them in their tracks. We had four eles aoe-ing this one thief the other day and the guy still managed to invis and get away, over and over. And the eles were talented folks, not new to their class — so it was both frustrating and puzzling trying to figure out how to counter the guy.

People are really thin skinned I guess. Every game has it’s problems. If you rage quit over a single thing like this, well good luck on finding another game that doesn’t have issues like this.

No offense meant but the truth is thief is just the focal target, and there is always a focal target, so if it was not thieves it would be the next item on the QQ train. If you enjoy the game you figure out a way around the parts that bother you, or you do not enjoy it enough to be bothered and just leave. The ‘reason’ you are leaving has nothing to do with what you are saying, because there will always be that ‘thing’ for those that look for it.

Jayne.9251:

Anet put out a hint about dealing with thieves in its latest patch update .. indicating AOE would stop them in their tracks. We had four eles aoe-ing this one thief the other day and the guy still managed to invis and get away, over and over. And the eles were talented folks, not new to their class — so it was both frustrating and puzzling trying to figure out how to counter the guy.

AoE cannot stop a thief knowing what to do…

(I have a thief)

Thieves aren’t a problem if you’re a Guardian.
They are quite ridiculously kitten when I take down three of them.
If you block their initial attack, they are so glass its ridiculous.

I think a lot of people are missing the point. I don’t care if the thief designer babysits NCSofts children every Friday night. I don’t care if Svarty got pwnd by a D/D Ele and tried to derail the thread that way.

Thief is broken. Stealth has no counter. And the whole problem is exacerbated by culling. People are tired of playing this game because it’s turning in Thiefwars2. I believe that was the OP’s point and I have yet to see a mildly intelligent or even slightly coherent rebuttal in this thread.

Avalon.4809:

Rhyis.7058:

If 2 thieves killed the 6 of you, it’s because you’re all pretty terrible. I mean thieves are mildly broken, but only in 1v1. Which is irrelevant to the grand scheme of WvW.

What is the use of making this useless comment? He said his friends already left.

People are leaving this game because of this thief, and this is a fact.
I have friends who left this game because of this stupid thing too.

I finished PvE, I did all dungeons, only thing giving me fun in this game at the moment is WvW, but thieves are destroying that fun. I’m not playing WvW so much like I used to do before just because of this issue.

There are lots of reasons to leave the game and WvW. Thief is not one of them. If you have any idea what’s going on in WvW at all, you will not get caught on your own to allow the thief to gank you in the first place… And again, 2 thieves can’t take out 6 players unless they’re all low level or are just plain bad. There’s no class in this game that can take on 3 times it’s numbers and win, assuming gear and skill are equal. Thieves are pretty annoying, but they aren’t that powerful.

It’s not like we’re talking about Warhammers Bright Wizard/Sorceress level of kittenness, where their ranged and melee AoE was 5 times more powerful than any other classes single target damage.

Niim.9260:

No offense meant but the truth is thief is just the focal target, and there is always a focal target, so if it was not thieves it would be the next item on the QQ train. If you enjoy the game you figure out a way around the parts that bother you, or you do not enjoy it enough to be bothered and just leave. The ‘reason’ you are leaving has nothing to do with what you are saying, because there will always be that ‘thing’ for those that look for it.

A million times this. I get killed by stealthed thieves now and then, guess what, I get killed by falling to my death more often cause I’m stupid. Should I quit because chatting and running is causing me repair bills?

Rhyis.7058:

Avalon.4809:

Rhyis.7058:

If 2 thieves killed the 6 of you, it’s because you’re all pretty terrible. I mean thieves are mildly broken, but only in 1v1. Which is irrelevant to the grand scheme of WvW.

What is the use of making this useless comment? He said his friends already left.

People are leaving this game because of this thief, and this is a fact.
I have friends who left this game because of this stupid thing too.

I finished PvE, I did all dungeons, only thing giving me fun in this game at the moment is WvW, but thieves are destroying that fun. I’m not playing WvW so much like I used to do before just because of this issue.

There are lots of reasons to leave the game and WvW. Thief is not one of them. If you have any idea what’s going on in WvW at all, you will not get caught on your own to allow the thief to gank you in the first place… And again, 2 thieves can’t take out 6 players unless they’re all low level or are just plain bad. There’s no class in this game that can take on 3 times it’s numbers and win, assuming gear and skill are equal.

I’m telling you I know people who left this game because of thieves, and you are telling me that thief is not one of the reasons of leaving…
Weird…

Moreover, we are not talking about if 2 thieves could beat 6 players or not.
We are talking about the stealth problem of thieves.

They left because they don’t like siege warfare. I know this because they were running around solo. I know this because they don’t like thieves.

Rhyis.7058:

They left because they don’t like siege warfare. I know this because they were running around solo. I know this because they don’t like thieves.

Yea, I don’t like thieves…
That’s why i play thief.
OMG dude, please…!

Avalon.4809:

Rhyis.7058:

They left because they don’t like siege warfare. I know this because they were running around solo. I know this because they don’t like thieves.

Yea, I don’t like thieves…
That’s why i play thief.
OMG dude, please…!

Same applies to those who play thieves ironically. Thief is completely useless in any fight that has more then 10 people.

If you fear thieves, you run around WvW solo or a small group. It really is that simple. If you defend objectives with siege all day long, you’ll never even see a thief.

Rhyis.7058:

Avalon.4809:

Rhyis.7058:

They left because they don’t like siege warfare. I know this because they were running around solo. I know this because they don’t like thieves.

Yea, I don’t like thieves…
That’s why i play thief.
OMG dude, please…!

Same applies to those who play thieves ironically. Thief is completely useless in any fight that has more then 10 people.

If you fear thieves, you run around WvW solo or a small group. It really is that simple. If you defend objectives with siege all day long, you’ll never even see a thief.

Thieves are not useless against 10 people. If you can’t do it with your thief, that doesn’t mean noone can, because I can.

I don’t run solo or with a small group. Btw, not running around solo won’t change this problem. Steath has a problem in this game, you can’t deny it. It really is that simple.

This issue is already talked in many threads.
What do you mean? All these ppl are talking wrong? Stealth has not a problem? All these ppl are noobs who don’t know how to play?

Because I play a more defensive build, thieves aren’t a big problem for me. From my pov, they’re not OP (though they are on the strong side in bursting), its just that their stealth ability is annoying. Not being able to see an enemy in a flat field and not knowing whether your attacks are hitting or not just makes you feel stupid as you swing in the air hoping you’re swinging in the right direction, and 2/3 of the time it turns out they went the other way and there’s already a 1000 gap between you two.
Basically, just give us damage numbers when we actually hit them. I mean even if they’re invisible, we’d still be able to feel if we whacked them you know? Or maybe make their avatar flicker (although I feel this wouldn’t work because of culling), or some other small hit effect.

ok so anyone in my guilds TS will tell you about my THIEF RAGE when i am hit in open feild.

but having said that it is a battle field
My squish class is a target for a thief for any easy kill but you just have to learn to counter and be awear of your enviroment.
Solo thevies hang around high populated routes and nodes so be ready
Tweek your build to counter that first attack (Rune of air ) helped me a lot ok not every time but it gives you a chance.
also take time to learn the Profession so you know their strenth and weaknesses

Navzar.2938:

Not being able to see an enemy in a flat field and not knowing whether your attacks are hitting or not just makes you feel stupid as you swing in the air hoping you’re swinging in the right direction, and 2/3 of the time it turns out they went the other way and there’s already a 1000 gap between you two.
Basically, just give us damage numbers when we actually hit them. I mean even if they’re invisible, we’d still be able to feel if we whacked them you know?

Watch your combat log, auto chains, and on-hit procs.. People effective at combating stealthed opponents already know when they’re hitting.

ghostchipz.2341:

ok so anyone in my guilds TS will tell you about my THIEF RAGE when i am hit in open feild.

but having said that it is a battle field
My squish class is a target for a thief for any easy kill but you just have to learn to counter and be awear of your enviroment.
Solo thevies hang around high populated routes and nodes so be ready
Tweek your build to counter that first attack (Rune of air ) helped me a lot ok not every time but it gives you a chance.
also take time to learn the Profession so you know their strenth and weaknesses

Are you guys some troll or what?

Dude, I can’t counter them because I CAN’T KITTEN SEE THEM!
Don’t you get it? You are expecting me to fight to a ghost. I can’t see them, I can’t select them, and they keep hitting me while they are in stealth! They hit me again and again and they are still in steath! Don’t you get it? I can’t do anything rather than run away, because they keep hitting me and I can’t see them. They don’t get out off stealth because of rendering problem. Don’t you get it?

This is a problem and Anet MUST fix this. They can’t wait for people learn how to counter this stupid thing. People leave because of this! Open your eyes…

Avalon.4809:

I can’t see them, I can’t select them, and they keep hitting me while they are in stealth!

So stop relying on your tab target to do all the work for you. GW2 skills don’t require tab targets to function, just aim them with the camera. If you’re having trouble aiming, downloading the combat mod can put a crosshair in the center of your screen.

Errr…. roll thieves yourselves? Just a suggestion

Also, some classes can’t attack without a target… Ranger bow builds for instance have 1 AOE on a long enough cd they would never hurt him. They can’t shoot randomly w/o a target.

90% of Thief imbalanced are caused my rendering/culling issues.

I know it’s hard to separate the two but one is a technical flaw and the other an imbalance.

I understand the problem though. I too have seen Pistol/Dagger Thieves who will remain invisible 2 seconds after attacking, effectively leaving barely a second to react before they disappear again.

This also occurs in sPvP where Stealth seems to last roughly 1 second longer than it should.

Thieves are a problematic profession and ANet really needs to take a fundamental look at them. Nerfing damage here and there isn’t going to fix anything on the long run.

Address the cause, not the symptoms.

Tulisin.6945:

Avalon.4809:

I can’t see them, I can’t select them, and they keep hitting me while they are in stealth!

So stop relying on your tab target to do all the work for you. GW2 skills don’t require tab targets to function, just aim them with the camera. If you’re having trouble aiming, downloading the combat mod can put a crosshair in the center of your screen.

I tell you I can’t see them, and you are telling me to aim them with camera… <.<

If the solution to this thing is downloading something to the game, I really laugh my kitten out! Are you kidding me? >:S

Setch.2398:

Also, some classes can’t attack without a target… Ranger bow builds for instance have 1 AOE on a long enough cd they would never hurt him. They can’t shoot randomly w/o a target.

Just tested this, I was able to fire arrows in any direction I chose by free-aiming them without a tab target.

Avalon.4809:

ghostchipz.2341:

ok so anyone in my guilds TS will tell you about my THIEF RAGE when i am hit in open feild.

but having said that it is a battle field
My squish class is a target for a thief for any easy kill but you just have to learn to counter and be awear of your enviroment.
Solo thevies hang around high populated routes and nodes so be ready
Tweek your build to counter that first attack (Rune of air ) helped me a lot ok not every time but it gives you a chance.
also take time to learn the Profession so you know their strenth and weaknesses

Are you guys some troll or what?

Dude, I can’t counter them because I CAN’T KITTEN SEE THEM!
Don’t you get it? You are expecting me to fight to a ghost. I can’t see them, I can’t select them, and they keep hitting me while they are in stealth! They hit me again and again and they are still in steath! Don’t you get it? I can’t do anything rather than run away, because they keep hitting me and I can’t see them. They don’t get out off stealth because of rendering problem. Don’t you get it?

This is a problem and Anet MUST fix this. They can’t wait for people learn how to counter this stupid thing. People leave because of this! Open your eyes…

i am not a troll i do not run a thief i was mearly pointing out that you can counter them please do not call me a troll!

you just have to be ready if you are hit i run Rune of air as this gives you chance to lighting stirke when hit also be ready with the dodge( i can produce a clone) most thiefs are glass cannon builds so you can kill them some of the time.

i am still playing i get ganked all the time but i have asked my guildies that run theives for help to counter.

vapour form for eles is another talking point get them down the vapour form into the keep yes this is frustrating too

Avalon.4809:

If the solution to this thing is downloading something to the game, I really laugh my kitten out! Are you kidding me? >:S

A crosshair can be helpful if you’re trying to learn how to aim in GW2, you can also just put a piece of tape on your monitor or something.

Everyone is all over how important skill should be in PvP until they’re forced to learn how to actually fight without GW2’s equivalent of aim assist.

Tulisin.6945:

Setch.2398:

Also, some classes can’t attack without a target… Ranger bow builds for instance have 1 AOE on a long enough cd they would never hurt him. They can’t shoot randomly w/o a target.

Just tested this, I was able to fire arrows in any direction I chose by free-aiming them without a tab target.

Oh really? I haven’t been on my ranger in a while I guess I was mistaken. Longbow or shortbow? I mainly played longbow.

Basically….

Glass cannon/low hp – you will get 1-shot by thieves. There is no counter. Stick to the back field and hope your allies manage to kill the noob thief.

Tanky – you survive the initial burst. Thief goes into ultra noob CnD spam mode. If you aren’t in a group, you will die. There is no counter.

The only defense is if you have a skill to block the CnD. Only a select few classes have an actual BLOCK ability though (which is on a CD unlike CnD -.-) Dodging DOES NOT WORK. You have 2 dodges, 2 seconds of blocking CnD. Every stealth skill has > 5s stealth thanks to culling.

There is no counter play to thief stealth. It is a broken mechanic and needs a re-work.

Thief is the noobtube of this game. Sadly I doubt they will fix this class because, well… noobtube encourages noobs to play more -.-

ghostchipz.2341:

Avalon.4809:

ghostchipz.2341:

ok so anyone in my guilds TS will tell you about my THIEF RAGE when i am hit in open feild.

but having said that it is a battle field
My squish class is a target for a thief for any easy kill but you just have to learn to counter and be awear of your enviroment.
Solo thevies hang around high populated routes and nodes so be ready
Tweek your build to counter that first attack (Rune of air ) helped me a lot ok not every time but it gives you a chance.
also take time to learn the Profession so you know their strenth and weaknesses

Are you guys some troll or what?

Dude, I can’t counter them because I CAN’T KITTEN SEE THEM!
Don’t you get it? You are expecting me to fight to a ghost. I can’t see them, I can’t select them, and they keep hitting me while they are in stealth! They hit me again and again and they are still in steath! Don’t you get it? I can’t do anything rather than run away, because they keep hitting me and I can’t see them. They don’t get out off stealth because of rendering problem. Don’t you get it?

This is a problem and Anet MUST fix this. They can’t wait for people learn how to counter this stupid thing. People leave because of this! Open your eyes…

i am not a troll i do not run a thief i was mearly pointing out that you can counter them please do not call me a troll!

you just have to be ready if you are hit i run Rune of air as this gives you chance to lighting stirke when hit also be ready with the dodge( i can produce a clone) most thiefs are glass cannon builds so you can kill them some of the time.

i am still playing i get ganked all the time but i have asked my guildies that run theives for help to counter.

vapour form for eles is another talking point get them down the vapour form into the keep yes this is frustrating too

Theives are not that much problem for eles. As soon as a thief attacks me in steath, I knock them down, most time they run away. But, you know, there are other classes in this game other than eles… They don’t have that much option to counter them.

the average thief will run from my mesmer.

all anger and contempt for each other aside, the solo thief who “finds” his way into sealed towers and kills all guards, supervisor and 1-2 players at the same time, seems to me to be a factor in some people leaving the game.

ask anyone who plays SoS/JQ/SBI, they will have seen him in action, not really any contest for most, just hit, vanish, hit vanish

and yes I play a thief, all 8 actually but thief among others to 80