Guild Wars 2

Tulisin.6945:

Art.9820:

I’m sorry but as a thief I feel useless when it comes to help capping towers or keeps, I can only help to defend others from sneaky thieves or kill some dumb toon who fall from the building,

You’re doing it wrong, then. But that is fine, thieves can excel at those roles if they choose to do so, there’s nothing wrong with being ineffective at siege combat if you chose to spec into open-field skirmish style play.

Doing it wrong?, Ok tell me when you are able to kill a trebuchet which is out of your range in a keep and tell me how useful you were other than spamming in chat “trebuchet trebuchet, build this ballista”, my point here is….. we are limited to build types, if I’m gonna run open field build which might not even focus on how our profession is intended to work I will get bored easily, I’m not playing an ele or necro to aoe stuff I play thief to drop targets quick, thats what people don’t get, each profession have their benefits

Its pretty simple. If you got beat 6v2 you are a noob.

UberLander.8326:

In whatever game you play you will always get people that say they can beat any class and l2p lol for them I reply with 5 videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SymCAw2pZI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JugxS_w_aKY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4p7MO7mzz8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3mrVp1_c9g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IovEPlAMr7g

as a bonus heres a super game breaking Ranger…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPsk-Q5LqM

:)

how cute! but I’m sorry you’re quite lost :P just another person putting WvW in a 1v1 scene, come back and tell me how useful were those kills in WvW, (which to be honest most of em were on targets that aren’t lvl 80)

UberLander.8326:

In whatever game you play you will always get people that say they can beat any class and l2p lol for them I reply with 5 videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SymCAw2pZI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JugxS_w_aKY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4p7MO7mzz8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3mrVp1_c9g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IovEPlAMr7g

as a bonus heres a super game breaking Ranger…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPsk-Q5LqM

:)

That just shows the issues some GC thief instagibbing subb i 80s i counted 3 who didn’t even have shoulder items, ganking 80s who were gc thief themselves showing what happens when u get bursted, ganking 80s who were half hp and then just killing people who are 80 but complete newbs like that rifle warrior

Of course you are happy of your thief and I congratulate for it but for all wvwvw population how many can counter you ? I bet that very very few and yeah they are AWESOME of course. There is a reason why everybody is changing to thief class and also I am dont want to sabotage that class I am just pointing on a reason why people is leaving this amazing game and yes I do believe this is an amazing game because I really enjoyed this game as never before until I got into wvwvw which is of course where you finish after getting everything you need from pve.

I know it could be scary of not killing enemies all day long by 2-3 hits but yet you will really start playing a game.

Miku.7156:

There is a reason why everybody is changing to thief class

This made me lol, zergs full of thieves!!!! you’re pretty much lost if you are in a T1 server you will notice that the hype class right now is ele with a d/d build

ohh and by the way I never run 2 hit builds I run hit & run build I just dislike whoever comes in here and says “I am just pointing on a reason why people is leaving” I wonder what would happen if they nerf thief dmg haha, I’m pretty sure people will find another excuse to even get our class more nerfed but don’t worry I won’t leave the game if they do it I’m not that childish

heres where it goes wrong if you want a class to have extreme mobility stealth versatility and evasiveness you cant just go and add it the highest damage possible. the is the least of concerns the problem is shadow steps and leaps when they have massive damage comparing to that of a warrior.

I would have no issue with a nerf to thief burst builds, would perhaps make the thief no longer the FoTM profession; leaving those of us who actually play respectable builds to play in peace.

Mechanix.5719:

1:Define balanced gear be more specific with what your wearing,Traits and ofc class.

Armor vit/tough, rings pow/crit/pres
I play an elementalist (and have exceptional survivability by any standards. I don’t need to repair armor after dungeons, I make money in WvW and not lose it in armor repairs. Ect.)

2:Okay i can say what in around 1/3 of a second so your being killed in under a second okay seems legit. By out of the blue do you mean your in tunnel mode and someone got the drop on you(thats your fault) if not and you didnt see him then thats the culling issue NOT THE THIEF okay anet are aware of this problem and working on it, the only way a thief can retain nearly perma stealth is a P/D thief and they have absolutely no burst at all.

Just left spawn, nobody goes into tunnel vision that early. Thief can teleport quite a distance, and has high movement speed. It might be the culling issue, or it might be the players skill.

3:if a theif kills you in say 5secs which the standard GC does then you are infact in glass cannon mode or your lying/extremely over exaggeration like 95% of all thief QQ threads.

I wasn’t counting the finishing move, that’s kinda “already dead” without teammates around you.

4: you can not play in tunnel vision have a wide spread view you will see a GC thief before he attacks you i always do unless its a P/D theif then quite simply you use condi removers and proceed to CC him and apply Condis/burst damage onto him and he will be dead quite soon.

You seem to be assuming that everyone is playing in tunnel vision just because they’re not constantly spinning around. There are a lot of places where I can, even as an elementalist, run around undetected 15 feet from a group of enemy players. It is sometimes just not possible to spot people fast enough.

Not to mention the culling problem.

So yes it was a learn to play issue or your a liar please choose which one it was and move along, we shouldn’t see you posting anything about how OP thief are any time soon or do what i did and level the class and play it i learnt it strengths and weaknesses and now i beat every D/D gc unless i get culling issues in which case doesn’t bother me since i know anet are on the problem and i play a Engi btw

…

Art.9820:

Miku.7156:

There is a reason why everybody is changing to thief class

This made me lol, zergs full of thieves!!!! you’re pretty much lost if you are in a T1 server you will notice that the hype class right now is ele with a d/d build

ohh and by the way I never run 2 hit builds I run hit & run build I just dislike whoever comes in here and says “I am just pointing on a reason why people is leaving” I wonder what would happen if they nerf thief dmg haha, I’m pretty sure people will find another excuse to even get our class more nerfed

Problem is that you are not honest, any of the many thief who play it on well+ level know that they are abusing with that class, it is of course very funny to kill someone stealth by a couple of hits, my friends who play that class laugh all day and is with them that I can go to wvwvw otherwise in 15 min I hit alt+f4 . I just dont want to be the next “I quit for other game guy”, I have played Lineage 2 for like 8 years and my intention was to play gw2 for a lot of years.

Having a class like the thief who is clearly made to gank people is pretty much a death sentence to having this game open to casual players.
Sure you forumwarriors will say omg noob l2p and all that.
I can kill thieves thats not the problem, and if i dont kill em the first time they will prolly die one of the next times they keep reappearing after failing yet another assasination attempt, it is however very annoying and unrewarding.

But not everyone has the time to keep up with every fotm thiefbuild that will be around just to come gank them after biweekly patches.
I have no problem with there being a thief/rogue/assassin type of class, but surely they can make the class something fun to play against instead of the fights just being reduced to a diceroll.

Miku.7156:

Art.9820:

Miku.7156:

There is a reason why everybody is changing to thief class

This made me lol, zergs full of thieves!!!! you’re pretty much lost if you are in a T1 server you will notice that the hype class right now is ele with a d/d build

ohh and by the way I never run 2 hit builds I run hit & run build I just dislike whoever comes in here and says “I am just pointing on a reason why people is leaving” I wonder what would happen if they nerf thief dmg haha, I’m pretty sure people will find another excuse to even get our class more nerfed

Problem is that you are not honest, any of the many thief who play it on well+ level know that they are abusing with that class, it is of course very funny to kill someone stealth by a couple of hits, my friends who play that class laugh all day and is with them that I can go to wvwvw otherwise in 15 min I hit alt+f4 . I just dont want to be the next “I quit for other game guy”, I have played Lineage 2 for like 8 years and my intention was to play gw2 for a lot of years.

Honest? I see gank thieves get killed everyday, Lineage 2 is not GW2 I’m sorry but don’t come in here and expose experience, you pretty much don’t understand WvW you’re only focusing in1v1, until you understand that and everyone else complaining about thieves then I will actually talk seriously ^ ^

2V6 was pretty easy for the 2 thieves. Add in a dash of lag and the thief was prob invis most the time to the players. given the limited area of movement in the JP it made the job too easy for the thieves. Their burst is completely out of hand and a dagger can hit harder by around 8x than a 2hd sword so yea 2 thieves jump a target he is dead reguardless of what you try.

The class is completely broken no counter stealth the ability to stealth once already in combat and standing ontop of their target is kitten pathetic. Their burst damage is insane. The class needs a complete over haul for WvWvW. and yea it is prob the main class in the game driving people away from the game.

i play a ranger and i rarely have problems with thieves ever since i read someones post. they summed it up like this: see a thief go invis, wait 2 seconds, dodge backwards, that one does work very well. if you see a little tent icon just aoe the circle. other than this i would just like to point out one very important factor, there are defensive boosting skills in the game for a reason, use them.

My friend directly said “Getting killed in 3-4 hits by thieves [in WvW]” was their reason for quitting and they have not been on since.

The OP might be on to something!

(The only way I survive an ambush as a Mesmer is to blink away from the opening three attacks as they happen, if all 3 go off in the 1-3 second window I am dead. Add lag in there and usually I am dead before it even shows up on my end.)

If I didn’t have that blink (Staff #2) I would be dead every time.

OP is right. Having a class that can kill people while constantly being invisible with no counter is terrible. Don’t tell me their is a counter cause there isn’t, there is no ability that removes stealth for any period of time in the game.

Came across a thief tonight who was attacking me and some guildies 1 vs 5. We couldn’t kill him while he kept attacking us. He was invisible 95% of the engagement. How is this fun? Why is there no counter to stealth? Horrible game design. If there were 2 of these thieves we would probably all have died due to stealth dunking.

A class that can wade into 10-20 people, make stupid mistakes or get jumped can still get away 100% maybe even after killing someone because of one uncounterable ability?

Stupid.

Sonork.2916:

uncounterable

Stealth is counterable in the same sense anything else is. You can interrupt abilities that stealth the thief or just straight up beat them down while they’re stealthed. I’m not exactly sure what you think a reasonable counter is, make it a boon and subject to boon removal? That would come with the positive benefits of making it a boon though, including increased duration via stats. Furthermore, stealth removed in that fashion wouldn’t preclude immediately attempting to restealth since stealth is only locked out by the revealed debuff if ended by doing damage.

I’m not exactly sure what you think a reasonable counter is, make it a boon and subject to boon removal?

Burning thieves leave a trail of smoke. They are still “stealthed”, have the stealth moves, but at least the 3 or 4 of us it takes to kill a thief can put our AoEs in the right place.

-Jeff

Mechanix.5719:

Wiredgunslinger.5480:

I’ve said it before and this is coming from a long time thief. Cloak and Dagger is ridiculously overpowered and the source of this ‘forever stealth’. If Anet put a more solid cool down on it….this wouldn’t happen.

Look at every thief proclaiming their kitten in wvw on youtube…..and you’ll see a guy who hits C&D a lot.

Yes your a longtime thief and your saying CnD grants “forever stealth” so who are you trying to fool again?

CnD uses 6 int if traited it can return 2 stealth but that not your claim its CnD not the traits so that doesn’t get accounted for "Cloak and Dagger is ridiculously overpowered and the source of this ‘forever stealth’. Stealth lasts 3 seconds i regen int to a ratio of 1/1.33secs. To get 6 int it would take me 7.98 seconds to achieve that yet i can only cloak for a grand total of 6 seconds so please explain to me where you have got this theory from. but anyway lets say your claim does work CnDs damage isnt that high so i fail to see how this could be Op if anything its a guy who wants to tease some newbs a simple application of AOE around yourself will have a dead thief in no time, i must say i look forward to your response.

I could ask you the same question. Just who are “you” trying to fool? There’s a reason a whole subset of thieves react very loudly everytime I suggest more of a cooldown on C&D which lessons the amount of time in stealth(breaking line of stealth) and the # of high dmg backstabs you can pull off. Your math is also pretty horrible….so let me present visual evidence for you all. Check the link and count how many times he uses C&D (#5 folks).

Longer cool down on C&D and folks couldn’t pull this off so easily. Nuff said. Mechanix.5719 I also put ‘’ around forever stealth as sarcasm. I know it doesn’t exist…it’s just a response to those that feel like it is.

I also have over 100+ hours on thief in wvw on SoS. I found it too easy to mess with people with C&D so I moved to more of a challenge as a P/P S&B build. Should try seeing how well you can stay alive with just your utility stealths ;p

I play in a guild of 700+ players some of which WvW only whilst others play both PvE and WvW.

The main gripes about WvW I hear over why people leave mostly to play Planetside are that the reward structure is unfavourable compared to other aspects of the game and that there is class imbalance particularly with the thief which becomes almost unkillable if traited and played correctly whilst still being able to deal significant damage.

There are 8 classes however I see a disproportionate number of thieves and due to their portal utility, mesmers on the battlefield.

PS would love ANet to roll out their dev team and show us how a class balanced 5 man team can take out 5 appropriately traited and equally skilled thieves.

Theoretically the balanced team should win but I doubt it is the case.

Ireniicus.2167:

PS would love ANet to roll out their dev team and show us how a class balanced 5 man team can take out 5 appropriately traited and equally skilled thieves.

Theoretically the balanced team should win but I doubt it is the case.

Heh..want to make a zerg very uncomfortable…make a 5 man party of thieves. That backline gets VERY antsy. After the 3rd/4th time you hit and run..it will split a zerg in half trying to track down your 5 man. Fun as hell though!

Now yes some of the thief whining is a l2p issue..some of it isn’t.

Best example of the L2P aspect are the nubs in a zerg who are glass cannon..and stay about 20 feet behind their zerg instead of staying within the zerg. Your just screaming for a thief to take you out and make it easy for them to do so.

its ridiculous. 3 months and nothing done except bullkitten nerves. thief stealth and disengage is out of control with that kinda damage. im only keeping my head up because im a very tanky warrior so thieves have it hard on me. if i wasnt that id be kitten as kitten and probably /ragequit too. Its just a huge design failure from someone who has no kittening clue about serious pvp, no offense! just get that kitten right and tone down the damage OR the disengage OR the stealth. just one of 3 things, get it kittening right already, its breaking my game and its been rubbed in your face for many weeks/months even on a milion posts.

Don’t like thieves? Roll a guardian.

You should have zero trouble with any of them. You can counter stealth… Binding Blade still targets them and pulls while they are stealthed… or with hammer use JI + ROW and smash their face in while they faceplant against the ring.

If they use shadow refuge run into it and knock them out with Shield of Absorption… Use retaliation + protection and watch them melt themselves…

Thieves are good at ganking noobs… and that’s about it…

I love thieves I need more free lootbags

-A mesmer

Rayya.2591:

I am sorry to say it but it sound like sabotage
“This is best game, but we will only play if you nerf thief "
First of all WvWvW is balanced for large scale battles , where thieves are an joke
Check some videos on youtube from zerg vs zerg … an warrior make 30 – 40 kills in 1 minute and you complain about thief and how Op it is –
Forget about 1 vs 1 in WvWvW , there are 300 – 500 players on every map
Regarding 2 vs 6, i refuse to belive that 6 players can lose vs 2 thieves. And if you lost 6 vs 2 the issue is with you , not with thief class.

The amount of wrong in this post is alarming. It makes me think you don’t even play the game. WvW is not just a zerg, if your server only plays that way enjoy never getting to the top. Playing on a T1 server I can tell you people run in smaller groups all the time, single players stop yaks, single players contest points, and zergs assault the towers/keeps/garrisons. Its never ever always just zerg on zerg.

BLA BLA BLA warrior 30-40 kills a minute what utter lies. just swinging your sword at some people that are aoe bombed doesnt mean a kill. the amount of absurdity of your post makes me think you are a thief?

zastari.1730:

I love thieves I need more free lootbags

-A mesmer

^ Agreed… mesmer is another very good class against thieves.

Thobek.1730:

Rayya.2591:

I am sorry to say it but it sound like sabotage
“This is best game, but we will only play if you nerf thief "
First of all WvWvW is balanced for large scale battles , where thieves are an joke
Check some videos on youtube from zerg vs zerg … an warrior make 30 – 40 kills in 1 minute and you complain about thief and how Op it is –
Forget about 1 vs 1 in WvWvW , there are 300 – 500 players on every map
Regarding 2 vs 6, i refuse to belive that 6 players can lose vs 2 thieves. And if you lost 6 vs 2 the issue is with you , not with thief class.

The amount of wrong in this post is alarming. It makes me think you don’t even play the game. WvW is not just a zerg, if your server only plays that way enjoy never getting to the top. Playing on a T1 server I can tell you people run in smaller groups all the time, single players stop yaks, single players contest points, and zergs assault the towers/keeps/garrisons. Its never ever always just zerg on zerg.

I do play the game, my server is on Top. Playing on a T1 server, and i can tell you rarely an solo player can cap supply camps, maybe durring the night , where population is low. thieves can take unprotected yaks, but as long as you hire guard caravan and have another player defending the yak is dificult to snipe the yak.
I can also tell you that ninja groups who usualy assault /defend the camps are decent players ( most of time an team ) and don’t lose 6 vs 2. An solo thief need at least 1 minute and 30 seconds to cap an supply camp , undefended . That will give you enough time to go there and kill him.
If you complain about solo ppls cap supply camps in tier 1 , makes me think you don’t play tier 1, Maybe tier 6

It got very tiresome when they tried the culling ‘fix’ which actually made thiefs completely unseeable due to the culling issue. Being hit for 8k,6k,6k with 1800 toughness in one second on my ranger got me very frustrated.

Let’s say i do manage to dodge after the first hit, I’m 8k down already and he’s invisible..dodge after second hit I’m down to one decent hit to being downed..throw on a heal, still badge food. Running away isn’t an option. Fire off barrage? really? 1 in 100 chance to even hit him he could be 2000 distance away by now and laughing at the ‘aoe counter’ that Anet say we should use. Oh there he is…pew pew pew oh look he’s 75% health and disappeared again, meantime I’m back to 50% hp, heal on cooldown, he pops back up and finishes me in two hits.

Now they removed the culling fix i can just about see them when they dancing around and I have a good chance of annoying them enough to send them on their way (on ranger).

Don’t have a problem with one against my mesmer, guardian (ha u really attacked a guardian!) or warrior, necro usually survives, my staff ele fails completely against one (he ignores everything and just splatters me before I get much in the way of damage off), d/d ele just laughs and mists away, I don’t really play engineer any more so couldn’t say and ranger if I’m not asleep I’m getting there.

The bigger problem now as i see it is these solo’rs are now partying up- seen a couple groups of 3 or 4 thieves running with a necro, or necro and mes, try combatting that amount of stealth, healing, freezes, conditions etc with a party of similar size, it’s not remotely fun unless u are in a skilled guild group- if there are randoms fighting with you, forget it, you’re all going to die fairly quickly.

There needs to be a counter to stealth- there is for almost every other aspect of the game.

The problem is for newer players or casual players (who will generally go into wvw) being 3 shotted by something you can’t see with no counter gets tiring very fast, and they quit and go play something else that doesn’t have this broken mechanic (as they see it).

Thiefs in WvW are easy to play and extremely strong. There are counters but the skill level to counter on other classes is much higher. Most of the time the counters are limited to specific builds and weaponsets. For instance on my mesmer I need to play a shatter build with offhand pistol or thiefs will gank me all day long.

This whole dynamic is very unfriendly to new players who get destroyed and some never come back

quercus.9261:

Thiefs in WvW are easy to play and extremely strong. There are counters but the skill level to counter on other classes is much higher. Most of the time the counters are limited to specific builds and weaponsets. For instance on my mesmer I need to play a shatter build with offhand pistol or thiefs will gank me all day long.

This whole dynamic is very unfriendly to new players who get destroyed and some never come back

This is pretty much the heart of the issue, along with the culling issue. It’s not that you can’t L2P and beat thieves or that you can’t build to defend yourself against them. It’s that the skill requirement to defend against glass cannon thieves is way higher than the skill required to use a glass cannon thief, and you shouldn’t have to build just for 1-2 builds from one class, respectively.

And for those claiming you can’t get “forever stealth” because you don’t have the initiative to keep up a 3s stealth. Remember, its 3s on your screen but 5-6 on theirs, so you only have to hit it every 6s and you are merely more that a split-second blip – and then only if the opponent has a decent gaming rig/connection.

Fortunately for me, I main a tankish mesmer so I don’t suffer as much as some others, but that doesn’t mean I don’t feel for others trying to pick up wvwvw and getting frustrated over one overly used, easy to implement but somewhat hard to counter build. Sorry, but if it’s causing these problems for that many , for whatever reason it’s an issue that needs to be addressed by the devs soon before too many people leave the game.

answers that dont belong in class balance discussion and make you look stupid:

roll another class
roll a thief
l2p
build against thieves

Art.9820:

Miku.7156:

There is a reason why everybody is changing to thief class

This made me lol, zergs full of thieves!!!! you’re pretty much lost if you are in a T1 server you will notice that the hype class right now is ele with a d/d build

No..

THIEVES players are starting to complain about D/D eles….
Also they NEVER support their theory with real facts…

check profiles…you ll find 90% of times complainers are thieves….

D/D ele have at least 4 couterclasses…

Nerf:
-P/D thieves
-Necromancers
-Rangers
-Mesmers

reality: are you sick of thieves? roll one yourself or their counterclass…..aka D/D ele that is the reason you see many nowaday…
Less thieves = less D/D eles (also because in sieges they are quite bad).

Funny thing is you see no D/D ele in PvE….there could be a reason.

lol losing a 6 on 2… that is why they left

Stealth this… portal that, so much qq and class envy amongst all the classes, i hope the developers pay no attention to all the tears from people who cant handle pvp and have learn to play issues.

Every class as good points and weakness’s… the main difference between players is not “class balance issues” its skill level imbalance. If people are not 80 with junk gear and expecting to win then they are noobs. If you are 80 and still lose 6 vs 2… then you should spvp alot more to improve your individual skill level let alone teams…

If 6 lose to 2, then your teamwork is terrible compared to the two working together.

So tired of all the whine, when compared to other games, the class balance in gw2 is very good… Stealth isnt what it was in beta (i can imagine the rage if it was lol) its been nerfed, can no longer stop caps… if you can’t lock down a thief and kill it before it stealths and runs away then thats your problem.

If your getting one shot by a thief then maybe you should change your gear, or learn to evade… glasscannon thiefs are so easy and one trick ponies, they miss their burst and get locked down = dead thief. One Aoe ability from a greatsword guardian can down a glasscannon thief… so one move from one guy… yet six cant beat two….

I play every class and have 5 80’s… with 40,000 + kills, some classes im fairly good on, other classes I suck at, because im less experienced on them or just dont get them like the classes I prefer. Just because i suck at some classes, doesnt mean the class in general sucks, and others are overpowered… because ive seen good players play on the classes im newb at and there is no difference between them and my prefered classes.

So many easymoders QQing because they struggle to learn and adapt… feel sorry for next generation of gamers.

All comes down to GW2. It’s about sPvP(For e-sports) and seasonal events. WvW is a feature, it doesn’t have to be good to be kept as a feature.

If Bugs/Balancing had even half the amount of people working on those issues as the amount of people working on seasonal events, this game would be pretty much perfect.

Haldunius.7864:

I think a lot of people are missing the point. I don’t care if the thief designer babysits NCSofts children every Friday night. I don’t care if Svarty got pwnd by a D/D Ele and tried to derail the thread that way.

Thief is broken. Stealth has no counter. And the whole problem is exacerbated by culling. People are tired of playing this game because it’s turning in Thiefwars2. I believe that was the OP’s point and I have yet to see a mildly intelligent or even slightly coherent rebuttal in this thread.

Give thief permanent stealth, then give detection to specific class just like any other MMO games. Thief has no permanent stealth by designed, therefore, no need to have detection. Why would you need detection for 3-4 second of stealth with cd if revealed (if you allow thief to stay in your melee range C&D skill) or 12s of stealth with long CD (Shadow Refugee)?

And even with permanent stealth and detection like other MMO’s, people are still QQ about stealth class. Is there any MMO with stealth class that doesn’t give a huge QQ on the forum?

Wasabee.5031:

Haldunius.7864:

I think a lot of people are missing the point. I don’t care if the thief designer babysits NCSofts children every Friday night. I don’t care if Svarty got pwnd by a D/D Ele and tried to derail the thread that way.

Thief is broken. Stealth has no counter. And the whole problem is exacerbated by culling. People are tired of playing this game because it’s turning in Thiefwars2. I believe that was the OP’s point and I have yet to see a mildly intelligent or even slightly coherent rebuttal in this thread.

Give thief permanent stealth, then give detection to specific class just like any other MMO games. Thief has no permanent stealth by designed, therefore, no need to have detection. Why would you need detection for 3-4 second of stealth with cd if revealed (if you allow thief to stay in your melee range C&D skill) or 12s of stealth with long CD (Shadow Refugee)?

And even with permanent stealth and detection like other MMO’s, people are still QQ about stealth class. Is there any MMO with stealth class that doesn’t give a huge QQ on the forum?

Rogue, World of Warcraft.

Couldn’t go invis for days, its stealth could be broken from damage over time spells and can also be detected from other spells. But still had vanish to balance it as a stealth class.

Even if stealth was removed, thiefs would still be dominant and that is the scary thing.

Cloud.7613:

Even if stealth was removed, thiefs would still be dominant and that is the scary thing.

It would be scary because of how bad the average player would have to be to die to an unstealthed thief.

The funny thing about this thread is the OP was not QQing but letting the developers know why his circle of friends were leaving the game. All the thieves on here QQing about l2p and thieves have been nerfed enough are not getting it. There will be no one left to play the game because people are leaving. They are leaving because it is not fun. Wonder how much fun the game will be when it is just a bunch of invisible people running around trying to find someone to gank…..

zastari.1730:

Cloud.7613:

Even if stealth was removed, thiefs would still be dominant and that is the scary thing.

It would be scary because of how bad the average player would have to be to die to an unstealthed thief.

Because that matters how? A high percentage of players play WvW for the non-serious aspect. It’s just the truth.

Cloud.7613:

Wasabee.5031:

Haldunius.7864:

I think a lot of people are missing the point. I don’t care if the thief designer babysits NCSofts children every Friday night. I don’t care if Svarty got pwnd by a D/D Ele and tried to derail the thread that way.

Thief is broken. Stealth has no counter. And the whole problem is exacerbated by culling. People are tired of playing this game because it’s turning in Thiefwars2. I believe that was the OP’s point and I have yet to see a mildly intelligent or even slightly coherent rebuttal in this thread.

Give thief permanent stealth, then give detection to specific class just like any other MMO games. Thief has no permanent stealth by designed, therefore, no need to have detection. Why would you need detection for 3-4 second of stealth with cd if revealed (if you allow thief to stay in your melee range C&D skill) or 12s of stealth with long CD (Shadow Refugee)?

And even with permanent stealth and detection like other MMO’s, people are still QQ about stealth class. Is there any MMO with stealth class that doesn’t give a huge QQ on the forum?

Rogue, World of Warcraft.

Couldn’t go invis for days, its stealth could be broken from damage over time spells and can also be detected from other spells. But still had vanish to balance it as a stealth class.

Even if stealth was removed, thiefs would still be dominant and that is the scary thing.

What? I had rogue with legendary daggers in WoW and you told me that rogue couldn’t go invis for days? I quit WoW before Panda was out, did they change the stealth in WoW so that rogue can no longer have permanent stealth? You can’t break stealth if you can’t see where the rogue is. Good rogue will camp near you enough and not let you detect him. With Vanish/Cloak of Shadow, you will remove all dot and go back into permanent stealth. If you go with Combat/Assassin route then yeah bad luck for you, you can’t remove dot and have to wait till dot out to re-stealth w/o being revealed, but that’s your choice. That was why most heavy pvp rogue was subtle trait.

The most QQ forum in WoW was also in Rogue and Mage.

Wasabee.5031:

Cloud.7613:

Wasabee.5031:

Haldunius.7864:

I think a lot of people are missing the point. I don’t care if the thief designer babysits NCSofts children every Friday night. I don’t care if Svarty got pwnd by a D/D Ele and tried to derail the thread that way.

Thief is broken. Stealth has no counter. And the whole problem is exacerbated by culling. People are tired of playing this game because it’s turning in Thiefwars2. I believe that was the OP’s point and I have yet to see a mildly intelligent or even slightly coherent rebuttal in this thread.

Give thief permanent stealth, then give detection to specific class just like any other MMO games. Thief has no permanent stealth by designed, therefore, no need to have detection. Why would you need detection for 3-4 second of stealth with cd if revealed (if you allow thief to stay in your melee range C&D skill) or 12s of stealth with long CD (Shadow Refugee)?

And even with permanent stealth and detection like other MMO’s, people are still QQ about stealth class. Is there any MMO with stealth class that doesn’t give a huge QQ on the forum?

Rogue, World of Warcraft.

Couldn’t go invis for days, its stealth could be broken from damage over time spells and can also be detected from other spells. But still had vanish to balance it as a stealth class.

Even if stealth was removed, thiefs would still be dominant and that is the scary thing.

What? I had rogue with legendary daggers in WoW and you told me that rogue couldn’t go invis for days? I quit WoW before Panda was out, did they change the stealth in WoW so that rogue can no longer have permanent stealth? You can’t break stealth if you can’t see where the rogue is. Good rogue will camp near you enough and not let you detect him. With Vanish/Cloak of Shadow, you will remove all dot and go back into permanent stealth. If you go with Combat/Assassin route then yeah bad luck for you, you can’t remove dot and have to wait till dot out to re-stealth w/o being revealed, but that’s your choice. That was why most heavy pvp rogue was subtle trait.

The most QQ forum in WoW was also in Rogue and Mage.

We’re talking about a Rogue in COMBAT. Staying permanently stealth is like afking in town, you’re not doing anything yet. High up time invis IN combat vs Permenent invis not doing anything yet. I’m sorry but it’s two entirely different things, one is choosing the time to attack, the other is abusing bad mechanics.

Cloud.7613:

Wasabee.5031:

Cloud.7613:

Wasabee.5031:

Haldunius.7864:

I think a lot of people are missing the point. I don’t care if the thief designer babysits NCSofts children every Friday night. I don’t care if Svarty got pwnd by a D/D Ele and tried to derail the thread that way.

Thief is broken. Stealth has no counter. And the whole problem is exacerbated by culling. People are tired of playing this game because it’s turning in Thiefwars2. I believe that was the OP’s point and I have yet to see a mildly intelligent or even slightly coherent rebuttal in this thread.

Give thief permanent stealth, then give detection to specific class just like any other MMO games. Thief has no permanent stealth by designed, therefore, no need to have detection. Why would you need detection for 3-4 second of stealth with cd if revealed (if you allow thief to stay in your melee range C&D skill) or 12s of stealth with long CD (Shadow Refugee)?

And even with permanent stealth and detection like other MMO’s, people are still QQ about stealth class. Is there any MMO with stealth class that doesn’t give a huge QQ on the forum?

Rogue, World of Warcraft.

Couldn’t go invis for days, its stealth could be broken from damage over time spells and can also be detected from other spells. But still had vanish to balance it as a stealth class.

Even if stealth was removed, thiefs would still be dominant and that is the scary thing.

What? I had rogue with legendary daggers in WoW and you told me that rogue couldn’t go invis for days? I quit WoW before Panda was out, did they change the stealth in WoW so that rogue can no longer have permanent stealth? You can’t break stealth if you can’t see where the rogue is. Good rogue will camp near you enough and not let you detect him. With Vanish/Cloak of Shadow, you will remove all dot and go back into permanent stealth. If you go with Combat/Assassin route then yeah bad luck for you, you can’t remove dot and have to wait till dot out to re-stealth w/o being revealed, but that’s your choice. That was why most heavy pvp rogue was subtle trait.

The most QQ forum in WoW was also in Rogue and Mage.

We’re talking about a Rogue in COMBAT. Staying permanently stealth is like afking in town, you’re not doing anything yet. High up time invis IN combat vs Permenent invis not doing anything yet. I’m sorry but it’s two entirely different things, one is choosing the time to attack, the other is abusing bad mechanics.

I see your point.
/salute

Wamgor.9347:

lol losing a 6 on 2… that is why they left

Stealth this… portal that, so much qq and class envy amongst all the classes, i hope the developers pay no attention to all the tears from people who cant handle pvp and have learn to play issues.

Every class as good points and weakness’s… the main difference between players is not “class balance issues” its skill level imbalance. If people are not 80 with junk gear and expecting to win then they are noobs. If you are 80 and still lose 6 vs 2… then you should spvp alot more to improve your individual skill level let alone teams…

If 6 lose to 2, then your teamwork is terrible compared to the two working together.

So tired of all the whine, when compared to other games, the class balance in gw2 is very good… Stealth isnt what it was in beta (i can imagine the rage if it was lol) its been nerfed, can no longer stop caps… if you can’t lock down a thief and kill it before it stealths and runs away then thats your problem.

If your getting one shot by a thief then maybe you should change your gear, or learn to evade… glasscannon thiefs are so easy and one trick ponies, they miss their burst and get locked down = dead thief. One Aoe ability from a greatsword guardian can down a glasscannon thief… so one move from one guy… yet six cant beat two….

I play every class and have 5 80’s… with 40,000 + kills, some classes im fairly good on, other classes I suck at, because im less experienced on them or just dont get them like the classes I prefer. Just because i suck at some classes, doesnt mean the class in general sucks, and others are overpowered… because ive seen good players play on the classes im newb at and there is no difference between them and my prefered classes.

So many easymoders QQing because they struggle to learn and adapt… feel sorry for next generation of gamers.

You seems to try to look smart but let me tell you that you dont, every friend I had and left had lvl 80 and exotic set, so everybody will need to make a char just to stop someone to kill you in 4 seconds, thats just kitten sorry but it is. This have nothing to do with skills or how to play, you shouldnt make a char just to counter a dominant class in game, otherwise lets delete all other classes as they are useless to counter theifs. I have faced all other classes in this game and even if I consider guardian a bit op you can play against them, there is more chance that a guardian can kill you but still you had a good fight . You seems not understanding the problem (or dont want to because you are happy to instantkill), a thief get you invi and with a combo you are down in 2-3 seconds, unles you have a gamer mouse and nerves of steel to invi you inmmediately after you feel a hit of a hidden char then you have no chance to survive, is fun for you I know but not fun for who die on this way. I think this is the last time I am going to reply, hope arenanet read this problem as this is one of the big reasons of players leaving the game.

Miku.7156:

Wamgor.9347:

lol losing a 6 on 2… that is why they left

Stealth this… portal that, so much qq and class envy amongst all the classes, i hope the developers pay no attention to all the tears from people who cant handle pvp and have learn to play issues.

Every class as good points and weakness’s… the main difference between players is not “class balance issues” its skill level imbalance. If people are not 80 with junk gear and expecting to win then they are noobs. If you are 80 and still lose 6 vs 2… then you should spvp alot more to improve your individual skill level let alone teams…

If 6 lose to 2, then your teamwork is terrible compared to the two working together.

So tired of all the whine, when compared to other games, the class balance in gw2 is very good… Stealth isnt what it was in beta (i can imagine the rage if it was lol) its been nerfed, can no longer stop caps… if you can’t lock down a thief and kill it before it stealths and runs away then thats your problem.

If your getting one shot by a thief then maybe you should change your gear, or learn to evade… glasscannon thiefs are so easy and one trick ponies, they miss their burst and get locked down = dead thief. One Aoe ability from a greatsword guardian can down a glasscannon thief… so one move from one guy… yet six cant beat two….

I play every class and have 5 80’s… with 40,000 + kills, some classes im fairly good on, other classes I suck at, because im less experienced on them or just dont get them like the classes I prefer. Just because i suck at some classes, doesnt mean the class in general sucks, and others are overpowered… because ive seen good players play on the classes im newb at and there is no difference between them and my prefered classes.

So many easymoders QQing because they struggle to learn and adapt… feel sorry for next generation of gamers.

You seems to try to look smart but let me tell you that you dont, every friend I had and left had lvl 80 and exotic set, so everybody will need to make a char just to stop someone to kill you in 4 seconds, thats just kitten sorry but it is. This have nothing to do with skills or how to play, you shouldnt make a char just to counter a dominant class in game, otherwise lets delete all other classes as they are useless to counter theifs. I have faced all other classes in this game and even if I consider guardian a bit op you can play against them, there is more chance that a guardian can kill you but still you had a good fight . You seems not understanding the problem (or dont want to because you are happy to instantkill), a thief get you invi and with a combo you are down in 2-3 seconds, unles you have a gamer mouse and nerves of steel to invi you inmmediately after you feel a hit of a hidden char then you have no chance to survive, is fun for you I know but not fun for who die on this way. I think this is the last time I am going to reply, hope arenanet read this problem as this is one of the big reasons of players leaving the game.

IMO, I don’t think the big reasons for players to leave this game = thief. Yes, there were players who left the game for that reason but it is only a small percentage. There are more people leaving the game or were already left because the game has not much rewards at end game (PvE and heavily impact in WvWvW,) brainless and mind numb grinding (legendary, and recently ascended gears.) People like me and most of GW’s fan do not like gears/vertical progression, however, the game is moving toward that gears/vertical progression. One reason I picked GW2 instead of Tera after quit WoW because I thought GW2 will be horizontal progression, sandbox game. This game is not really a true sandbox game because you can’t just turn 1 skill down to move another skill up and turn yourself from warrior into stealth assassin.

Fred Fargone.3127:

You leave your spawn.
You have full exotics, balanced gear, (no glass cannon), you’re a squishy class.
Out of the blue you take around 100% your health in damage before you have time to say “what”, and after you’re dead from stealth finish, you finally see the attacker.
Tell me, how is that L2P issue? What were you supposed to do? Randomly dodge all the time after leaving your spawn? Hit thin air with AoE just because you’re not in your immunity zone anymore? Keep hitting 1 while moving?

If you can’t see a thief approaching you then you’re blind. It is a learn to play issue. Try opening your eyes and scouting what’s behind you as well as in front of you while you’re trying to find the zerg

UberLander.8326:

In whatever game you play you will always get people that say they can beat any class and l2p lol for them I reply with 5 videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SymCAw2pZI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JugxS_w_aKY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4p7MO7mzz8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3mrVp1_c9g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IovEPlAMr7g

as a bonus heres a super game breaking Ranger…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPsk-Q5LqM

:)

Whats your point? that a thief can own some undergeared noobs that play on a low rank WvW server?

I guess you win that debate kid

I think the horse has died, been resurrected and then beaten to death again! Really, if you and your friends quit, or lets be honest, if every single one of the whinny kids quit, this game would still be around, just like the first Guild Wars. So out of lets say, 1 million players in GW2, if half of them cried a river and sailed away on it, that’s still 500k people playing. Sure, populations would shift again and there would be less servers, but the game would move on down the road.

The problem as people have pointed out already is YOU. People make or break the game, and the crying goes on and on, regardless of where the game goes. You can take the Thief Stealth away completely and you will still die to them. In case you didn’t realize a few things, no Thief is sneaking up on you IN Stealth to begin with, not unless they’re not trying for their 3 hit killer combo (CnD>Mug>Backstab) because being in Stealth first ruins the setup. Either that or they’re a P/D Condition build and can’t burst you down at all.

Another fact that compounds these problems is culling of course, but even moreso than that is the complete lack of anything other than P/D Condition builds or Glass Backstab builds. They nerfed Sword / X to uselessness, P/P is garbage even with a few tweaks and Shortbow is good for running away and making people look stupid during a siege. So that means the Thief has to make due with two builds and 1.5 sets of weapons. I’m not saying other classes don’t have similar crap weapon sets too, but the Thief has the least weapons they can use of all classes right off the bat, and almost nothing worth a kitten for 90% of what they CAN use.

Nerf the Thief, nerf it as much as you like and you still won’t be happy, that’s the simple fact of the matter. As long as you have a chance to die to ANY class, Stealthed or not, you’re going to complain. None of your cries mean a thing to Anet, they already have your money, but you’ll do it anyway. Look at World of Warcraft, look at the forums, listen to the crying. They’ve been crying for 8 years, and yet, over 10 million players are still killing and looting it up. If you’re willing to cry and quit games over the rage of losing to a Thief in the middle of nowhere in the middle of World vs World which isn’t real PvP to begin with,(it’s like saying Marvel vs Capcom games are “real” Street Fighter games) then you weren’t going to stay with the game that long anyway. You want better balance in your PvP then you play tPvP / sPvP. That’s the balance, that’s the real deal. WvW is kitten waving trash with trash rewards and useless crying. Suck it up and play real PvP then tell me you have trouble with the Thief.

zastari.1730:

I love thieves I need more free lootbags

-A mesmer

Your name resembles that of a certain mesmer from Maguuma that I love dueling. Is this who I think it is?

~Shadowkat