Guild Wars 2

Funny thread , the whole point in WvW is to gather your army vs their army. And now people complain about a few roamers here or there running glass cannon builds which can be 3 shotted in aoe? What’s next ?

It’s not so much a “learn to play” as a “learn to build” problem. If you build glass cannon, you are a noob to PvP. In no PvP MMO ever has there been a time when glass cannon was remotely successful versus competent opponents.

DAoC – Required templates
WoW – Required special PvP stat (once implemented and required HP build before that)
AoC – Required high HP/defense setups
WAR – Required high HP/Defense pvp gear
Rift – required pvp stat/High HP

Why should GW2 be any different?

After playing a thief to 80 and doing a lot of PvP I am able to kill many more thieves than kill me with UP-LEVELD crappy geared alts of other professions. Very easily with their level 80 sPvP counterparts.

If you want to be good at PvP in this game you need to actually play every single profession to level 50+ (if you need gated skill learning) then at least sPvP for a while with them. When I ran into the first d/d Elemetnalst that rolled me, I didn’t come here to complain. I created one leveled it until I got a full understanding of every D/D skill and ele’s utilities then went into sPvP and learned how to PvP. I can now kill the dps based ones and stalemate or force a retreat from the bunker ones.

Sorry it takes so much effort! You don’t get to win in this game by mastering one profession.

Thieves are being nerfed january patch. Now move on to something else.

how can you complain that thief is overpowered in wvwvw because he is strong in 1v1.
Wvwvw is not about 1v1 fights but about groupfights in which thief is nowhere near being OP.
To be bursted/killed by a thief in wvwvw you need to do several mistakes.}
1. You need to be alone.
2. You dont have correct skills set to be running alone – many class have skills to avoid, block thief attacks.
3. You failed to see him – it is not WoW, thiefs cant run stealth 24/7. That thief that bursted you, most likly noticed you some time ago and already made up a plan, where and how to attack you, he use terrain, walls etc to approach you unnoticed – because that is what thief players do, they run around map looking for opportunities to kill someone. Now imagine the reverse situation, that you see him first, and you attack him first when he is not prepared. Imagine you can set up you best attack before he even realize you are there. Yes you can do that with any class.
4. Squishy, squishy, squishy. Many players ignore defence and go for pure power. If you build that way, and dont get first attack on opponent you gonna have a bad time.

Thieves are far from being OP class for wvwvw.

As a thief player (main character), for the long term HEALTH of the game Thiefs need to be re-worked.

Doing damage while stealthed is NOT good for any game. Why? Because you fight a ghost. 5 other classes are simply just swinging hoping to hit.

It’s better for us all that stealth be re-worked or re-thought. Give thief a get-away stealth ability or an ability to stealth for x amount of time, but not fight in stealth. Make them a true in and out damage class rather than a ghost.

P.S. pet peeve here but to the OP:
leaved? they fell off a tree? LEFT!

Altie.4571:

As a thief player (main character), for the long term HEALTH of the game Thiefs need to be re-worked.

Doing damage while stealthed is NOT good for any game. Why? Because you fight a ghost. 5 other classes are simply just swinging hoping to hit.

It’s better for us all that stealth be re-worked or re-thought. Give thief a get-away stealth ability or an ability to stealth for x amount of time, but not fight in stealth. Make them a true in and out damage class rather than a ghost.

P.S. pet peeve here but to the OP:
leaved? they fell off a tree? LEFT!

I do apologize for my english when I noticed about the title it was too late :P . I am still learning it

Miku.7156:

I do apologize for my english when I noticed about the title it was too late :P . I am still learning it

No worries, it’s my 2nd … or 3rd technically … language as well.
But you wouldn’t learn unless someone points out the mistake

Altie.4571:

As a thief player (main character), for the long term HEALTH of the game Thiefs need to be re-worked.

Doing damage while stealthed is NOT good for any game. Why? Because you fight a ghost. 5 other classes are simply just swinging hoping to hit.

It’s better for us all that stealth be re-worked or re-thought. Give thief a get-away stealth ability or an ability to stealth for x amount of time, but not fight in stealth. Make them a true in and out damage class rather than a ghost.

Fix culling sure. Other than that, stealth is part of the combat flow and a Thief’s access to many boons and trait synergies. It is not like standard MMO stealth. Everyone here seems to want it to be that way. It’s part of combat, not something you do between combat.

Thankfully at this point Anet has shown themselves to not listen to whiners. They seem to balance based on the assumption that players are at a high skill level and have full knowledge of game mechanics. If you are having a problem with a specific profession all the time, either they are using a counter spec to you or you need to work on one of those two things.

Stiv.1820:

Fix culling sure. Other than that, stealth is part of the combat flow and a Thief’s access to many boons and trait synergies. It is not like standard MMO stealth. Everyone here seems to want it to be that way. It’s part of combat, not something you do between combat.

Thankfully at this point Anet has shown themselves to not listen to whiners. They seem to balance based on the assumption that players are at a high skill level and have full knowledge of game mechanics. If you are having a problem with a specific profession all the time, either they are using a counter spec to you or you need to work on one of those two things.

You didn’t read my post did you?

I’m one of the thiefs, so I use the abilities just like they get used on others. I still think it’s a bad design that will leave more players frustrated than excited.

Not everything is a whine, sometimes there are legitimate points to be brought up. Try to keep up.

Altie.4571:

Stiv.1820:

Fix culling sure. Other than that, stealth is part of the combat flow and a Thief’s access to many boons and trait synergies. It is not like standard MMO stealth. Everyone here seems to want it to be that way. It’s part of combat, not something you do between combat.

Thankfully at this point Anet has shown themselves to not listen to whiners. They seem to balance based on the assumption that players are at a high skill level and have full knowledge of game mechanics. If you are having a problem with a specific profession all the time, either they are using a counter spec to you or you need to work on one of those two things.

You didn’t read my post did you?

I’m one of the thiefs, so I use the abilities just like they get used on others. I still think it’s a bad design that will leave more players frustrated than excited.

Not everything is a whine, sometimes there are legitimate points to be brought up. Try to keep up.

I read your post. I know you main a Thief. How does that have anything to do with what I posted? Also, I’m curious what you mean by “Doing damage while stealthed”. Are you referring to bleeds/poison? Culling?

Stiv.1820:

After playing a thief to 80 and doing a lot of PvP I am able to kill many more thieves than kill me with UP-LEVELD crappy geared alts of other professions. Very easily with their level 80 sPvP counterparts.

If you want to be good at PvP in this game you need to actually play every single profession to level 50+ (if you need gated skill learning) then at least sPvP for a while with them. When I ran into the first d/d Elemetnalst that rolled me, I didn’t come here to complain. I created one leveled it until I got a full understanding of every D/D skill and ele’s utilities then went into sPvP and learned how to PvP. I can now kill the dps based ones and stalemate or force a retreat from the bunker ones.

Sorry it takes so much effort! You don’t get to win in this game by mastering one profession.

Here’s the thing. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. In fact, I emphatically agree with the assertion that experiencing every class/profession will greatly improve how you play the game (not just in PvP either).

However, despite this, I still have issues with the Thief and with stealth mechanics in particular. So, if you’re trying to present a counter-argument to those issues, it’s missed the mark.

I don’t even think the ability should be called “stealth”, ‘cuz that ain’t what it is. It’s temporary invisibility.

I find its implementation to be hokey, and I think it’s essentially the same mistake that has been made by many other games, resulting in the same negative reaction we’ve seen time and time again.

I love the fundamental idea of a stealth mechanic. But I believe any such mechanic needs to have a counter/contesting attribute. My familiarity with a large number of RPG systems makes this a no-brainer for me. However, ANet has gone another way. I don’t think it’s working out too well.

Can “stealth” be dealt with in this game? Sure. Can one “pwn da thieves” if they work at it? No doubt.

But is it fun? Engaging? Is it an elegant, intuitive system? Does it make visual sense?

A disturbingly large number of people don’t seem to think so. From a design perspective, I consider that to be a big problem. ‘Cuz, even if I’m mostly fine with it myself, if all those people move on to greener pastures, my own game experience suffers.

So, I don’t think variations of “learn to play” squelching are all that helpful here. I’m much more interested in evolving the current system into a form that will leave most people generally satisfied.

I think the way to go there is to add a counter attribute, that will have the added bonus of bringing greater depth and variation to builds. But that’s me. At the very least, I think a dialogue about it is good, and I think the WvW community probably has the most informed perspective on it.

TLDR: It’s possible to think the current system ain’t that great, even if you’re able to work with it.

And pray tell what is REAL pvp ? The tripe they call sPvP that is nothing more than all other games spewed out …. cookie cutters that run around trying to prove that they should get into e games. There is a reason why WoW is no longer there ……….

Now you doing pretty kitten fine if u find a group of 5 in a zone and if u find 10 pray they not about to log. Events are pretty dead. Not may doing instances. sPvP has around 1/10th of its servers in use now. WvWvW is now almost completly dead, outmanned buff is rife on all servers almost all the time in 3 of the 4 maps. From a WvWvW point thieves are out of control for 2 reasons 1st is culling issues and 2nd is their damage that by using needles can out damage a 2hd weapon… there is a problem and it should have been dealt with months ago. Yea it does kitten people off and thereby just adds to the reason people leave the game.

LordByron.8369:

Art.9820:

Miku.7156:

There is a reason why everybody is changing to thief class

This made me lol, zergs full of thieves!!!! you’re pretty much lost if you are in a T1 server you will notice that the hype class right now is ele with a d/d build

No..

THIEVES players are starting to complain about D/D eles….
Also they NEVER support their theory with real facts…

check profiles…you ll find 90% of times complainers are thieves….

D/D ele have at least 4 couterclasses…

Nerf:
-P/D thieves
-Necromancers
-Rangers
-Mesmers

reality: are you sick of thieves? roll one yourself or their counterclass…..aka D/D ele that is the reason you see many nowaday…
Less thieves = less D/D eles (also because in sieges they are quite bad).

Funny thing is you see no D/D ele in PvE….there could be a reason.

I have seen D/D eles in PvE :O, kinda hard to believe people roll d/d eles to only counter thieves since most of them are helping zergs or love owning several underleveled targets (just like most of thieves out there who usually are the ones posting youtube videos….), d/d ele is awesome to mess with other zergs, 3 or 4 d/d eles can make a zerg spread out easily because people will try to evade them, like I said before everyone is focusing in 1v1 fights or small fights, if we talk about the big picture an ele or mesmer are way better at helping in WvW, most of those who were amazingly posting about their skillful thieves against underleveled targets are the ones complaining about d/d eles now, PLEASE TO EVERYONE don’t put every thief in the same picture, is just like those who call my server JQQ, when only a few complain about 2v1 or w/e new excuse they think of…..

Even if you L2play.

The thief will still win if reasonably competent.

This might be tolerable if in groups were they countered by a balanced set of classes. Nope. Best set up is a handful of thieves and some sort of Control. The more thieves the better your chance of winning.

You can go and roll your classes best pvp build and it will still lose to the thief’s best pvp build every time.

Its not a L2play issue.

Its a one class is stupidly OP issue.

Stealth is a amazing PvE mechanic, but an absolutely awful PvP mechanic.

Pets, too.

Also made much worse by the culling mechanic in this game.

Hydrophidian.4319:

A disturbingly large number of people don’t seem to think so. From a design perspective, I consider that to be a big problem. ‘Cuz, even if I’m mostly fine with it myself, if all those people move on to greener pastures, my own game experience suffers.

The community could use a little more of this sentiment.

Heh, 1 thief isn’t the problem, It’s multiple thieves I have trouble with

Hydrophidian.4319:

TLDR: It’s possible to think the current system ain’t that great, even if you’re able to work with it.

When starting this game I knew the Thief was for me because I have always loved the stealth “class”. Reading about it I learned about the stealth mechanic and was not happy. I wanted my good old toggle stealth like all other games. Played with it and learned to love it after probably 40 levels.

If you want them to re-work the thief into the cookie cutter version from all other games that is fine with me. Toggle out of combat stealth with long cool-downs for in combat stealth. It won’t change the complaining. I for one would swap to whatever the new classic burst build would be and just roam around WvW undetected picking off stragglers and striking an at best time as I had originally envisioned.

Everyone claims stealth is such an issue and it makes sense. When I run around WvW I can usually feel comfortable engaging 4 or 5 people because I build for 1vN fights and most people are under-geared and not level 80. This doesn’t change the fact that I have run into individuals from almost every profession who can stand toe to toe alone. Zerker guardians, D/D eles, Shatter Mesmers, Condition swap Necros, Netspam bunker engies, zerker 100b-evis-killshot warriors.

When I fight those individuals I feel completely balanced. When i fight the general WvW “N” I feel extremely OP. What does this mean to me? That balance is at the high end of the scale. Top gear, top mechanics knowledge and viable builds. Stealth is just one more mechanic. My favorite profession to fight is other thieves because they tend to be terrible and it’s so fun to kill them while they are in stealth. Half are probably re-rolling QQers from this forum.

Stiv.1820:

If you want them to re-work the thief into the cookie cutter version from all other games that is fine with me.

At no point did I say this, so… that’s a lovely Straw Man you have there.

I actually mentioned my own preference twice. It wasn’t “Re-work the thief into the cookie-cutter version from all other games.” I favor an attribute that counters stealth.

The rest of your response reads to me as just another rehashing of “learn to play”.

I know how to play. I still think the stealth system in this game could be a lot better, thereby satisfying a broader group of people, thereby keeping higher numbers in a aspect of the game I very much enjoy: WvW.

Ekove.4586:

Svarty.8019:

Double dagger elementalist is the new thief.

See the funny part is people complain about DD ele’s when DD ele’s don’t come close to thieves damage and still have less mobility…. And of course no stealth.

Actually I gotta correct you there. D/D Eles have access to perma swiftness (33% base speed buff as opposed to thieves’ 25%, oh and Ele have a signet that like an improved version of the signet that thieves use for the 25% boost, see Signet of Air and Signet of Shadows), ride the lightning, I’m pretty sure they trait into endurance recovery so they can maximize the use of evasive arcana. On top of that Eles have a load of auras, AoE’s and combo fields giving them an overall most sustained dps, over multiple targets as opposed to thieves who blow everything they’ve got in the first strike on a single target.

It has a lot to do with the graphic rendering bug. In zerg battles (20+ vs 20+), it is not uncommon for a 5-10 seconds graphic load time of players. What this means is, when the thief un-stealth, he would get an extra 5-10 seconds of stealth. And hence why he “seems” to be able to invisible 24/7.

Even in 1v1 fights, thieves often gets 3-4 seconds of extra stealth time because of this.

Once they fix the graphic loading bug, we would see if thieves are truly overpowered or not.

Temporary solution: Prioritize the graphic loading of thieves so they load right away.

Don’t get me wrong, as a glass cannon Mesmer I melt thieves if they don’t get the total jump on me.

However, killing someone in 3 hits that can be hasted is, oh I don’t know BULL-Kitten? Two of those attacks are done from the protection of relative stealth. Steal is more or less instant cast.

CHIPS.6018:

Temporary solution: Prioritize the graphic loading of thieves so they load right away.

Why Anet hasn’t done this in the meantime is beyond me. Totally beyond me.

Hydrophidian.4319:

Stiv.1820:

If you want them to re-work the thief into the cookie cutter version from all other games that is fine with me.

At no point did I say this, so… that’s a lovely Straw Man you have there.

I actually mentioned my own preference twice. It wasn’t “Re-work the thief into the cookie-cutter version from all other games.” I favor an attribute that counters stealth.

The rest of your response reads to me as just another rehashing of “learn to play”.

I know how to play. I still think the stealth system in this game could be a lot better, thereby satisfying a broader group of people, thereby keeping higher numbers in a aspect of the game I very much enjoy: WvW.

Sorry, I quoted you but also am responding to the general theme I read in this thread and many others.

The thing is there are already plenty of things that counter stealth. Are you asking for a utility that you press to completely see through stealth that you can use on demand?

Depending on the cool-down and the duration I could be fine with that. Especially if you had to sacrifice a utility to use it. I still think it’s sort of lame though. I’d love an ability to use on an elementalst that stuck him in one element stance that I could swap to whenever I see one coming in WvW. I’m not exactly sure what you are asking for but it sounds to me like you want a lazy hard counter instead of just using the many soft counters that are currently available in the game now.

Stiv.1820:

Are you asking for a utility that you press to completely see through stealth that you can use on demand?

Nope. What I envision is something like this: two attributes: Stealth and Awareness. Both attributes would be components to certain skills/abilities (much in the way Stealth functions now). The attributes could be scaled and improved through build. So, if you want Stealth that counters most Awareness, you gotta give something up for it (and have Stealth in your load-out). If you want Awareness that sees through most Stealth, you gotta give something up for it (and have Awareness in your load-out).

I’d probably make Engineers and/or Rangers the Awareness kings, because 1. it makes sense conceptually and 2. it’d let those professions bring more to the WvW table. I’d probably also expand the accessibility to Stealth, but obviously keep Thieves as the specialists.

But that’s me, and it’s just one example, one possible idea. My fundamental point is still simply: the system as it stands could be improved in such a way as to mitigate dissatisfaction, without really taking anything away from those who’re currently satisfied.

It’s in all our best interests to brainstorm to that end.

I will say that being able to stealth stomp is complete BS.
That being said, thiefs can be dealt with by other class/build combinations within reason.
Occassionaly there are thiefs that seem to be able to stay stealthed for minutes on end while attacking, which I’m inclined to think are related to hacks more than rendering issues.
As an elementalist my hardest kills are certain Warrior builds and very good Necros.

P.S. I have both an Elemenatalist & Thief at level 80 in full exotics, and I fear a Pistolwhip/Shortbow thief more than a S/D or D/D stealth thief.

Hydrophidian.4319:

Stiv.1820:

Are you asking for a utility that you press to completely see through stealth that you can use on demand?

Nope. What I envision is something like this: two attributes: Stealth and Awareness. Both attributes would be components to certain skills/abilities (much in the way Stealth functions now). The attributes could be scaled and improved through build. So, if you want Stealth that counters most Awareness, you gotta give something up for it (and have Stealth in your load-out). If you want Awareness that sees through most Stealth, you gotta give something up for it (and have Awareness in your load-out).

I’d probably make Engineers and/or Rangers the Awareness kings, because 1. it makes sense conceptually and 2. it’d let those professions bring more to the WvW table. I’d probably also expand the accessibility to Stealth, but obviously keep Thieves as the specialists.

But that’s me, and it’s just one example, one possible idea. My fundamental point is still simply: the system as it stands could be improved in such a way as to mitigate dissatisfaction, without really taking anything away from those who’re currently satisfied.

It’s in all our best interests to brainstorm to that end.

This is like CoH/CoV stealth vs perception. The higher the perception compared to the stealth value the farther away you can see them. It could work fine if balanced but my point is just it’s unnecessary. Mesmer’s Focus#4, all the Guardian’s pulls, any pull that doesn’t require a target used right when someone stealth will guarantee they don’t get farther than 100 units without blowing utilities. Anyone with a push, pull or fear can completely counter shadow refuge if used in the first 4 seconds.

You probably know all this so are you saying this stuff is just too much for the average WvW player?

With respect to WvW environment: I find there are a few classes/builds that afford risk/reward profiles that are superior to other professions. Especially when you factor in easy of play, and the wvw environment/mechanic limitations. Thieves are on that list. ….more often then not I find it’s win/run versus win/lose.

I would prolly assume that the “rendering issue” will not be fixed in wvw. As an aside it seems ridiculous to me that it is accepted as an excuse for class balance issues…i.e. its ok, because IF/when rendering is fixed, in an undefined future update, that may or may not ever come to pass……they may be fine? huh? How about we balance classes/mechanics to function within the game environment we currently have?…crazy talk I know.

I’ve had people quit because of thieves in wvw as well. That said, while it is very annoying, in real combat thieves aren’t much of an issue to me. Most thieves don’t try to fight in real combat, they try to burst and when it fails they move on only looking for easy kills. When culling is fixed it won’t be an issue so it’s just a waiting game.

Stiv.1820:

This is like CoH/CoV stealth vs perception.

No, not really. The basic idea is the same (as it is in many, many systems), but the implementation would be very different (and would consequently avoid the issues the Co* system had). These would not be passive attributes.

It could work fine if balanced but my point is just it’s unnecessary.

This is where I think you keep getting stuck.

You might think it’s unnecessary. And I might even agree with you. But that’s not the point. My questions are: would it make the gameplay more interesting and bring greater depth to character builds? And would it help mitigate a lot of the issues that a large part of the playerbase currently have regarding “stealth” (read: invisibility) in this game?

Anything beyond the dynamics of Pong are unnecessary. What I’m seeing here is a design problem. Is that problem, at least in part, a matter of perception? Sure. That doesn’t mean it isn’t worth looking at. And that doesn’t mean that looking at it can’t result in an overall better game for everybody.

Hydrophidian.4319:

My questions are: would it make the gameplay more interesting and bring greater depth to character builds? And would it help mitigate a lot of the issues that a large part of the playerbase currently have regarding “stealth” (read: invisibility) in this game?

I don’t know the answer. If it did make everyone happy all around then I could not disagree with the change. I think the large part of the playerbase that you are talking about want classic stealth and probably a lot want it just removed. Every game that has a stelath class has forums full of hate for that class due to the nature of stealth and probably party due to the nature of the people who tend to play those classes.

Stiv.1820:

I think the large part of the playerbase that you are talking about want classic stealth and probably a lot want it just removed. Every game that has a stelath class has forums full of hate for that class due to the nature of stealth and probably party due to the nature of the people who tend to play those classes.

Absolutely.

But my impression is that the level of “ERMAHGERD KITTENING THIEVES!” is extremely high here, and it’s indirectly having an impact my own experience.

It’s never going to go away completely, but I do think there are things that could be done to keep it down to a dull roar, while also making it a more interesting gameplay dynamic. I believe there’s room for improvement on the system.

[this post was deleted once for self-imposed language filtering included for humor value. Said filtering has now been replaced with the arbitrarily-deemed-acceptable alternative filter of “kitten”… because that’s such a significant difference, really]

I feel your pain OP. If I had the patience to level another character to 80 and farm a bunch of gold for new gear, I would absolutely ditch my current char and make a thief.

Saw a video the other day of a thief climbing into towers and keeps at will and soloing them by himself.

From my perspective, I can see why people would quit this game because it is frankly broken. The thief class itself isn’t the problem (other than they need a cooldown on stealth and should not be able to stomp in stealth). The problem is culling. Sometimes I don’t even see the thief killing me until I’m already downed because of.. culling. I’m hanging on to this game by a string right now. If they don’t fix these things I won’t be here after this weekend.

The problem isn’t culling, the problem is that they can hit so hard with their 1 and 2 skill. Their damage output is much higher than other classes

Fred Fargone.3127:

Mechanix.5719:

1:Define balanced gear be more specific with what your wearing,Traits and ofc class.

Armor vit/tough, rings pow/crit/pres
I play an elementalist (and have exceptional survivability by any standards. I don’t need to repair armor after dungeons, I make money in WvW and not lose it in armor repairs. Ect.)

2:Okay i can say what in around 1/3 of a second so your being killed in under a second okay seems legit. By out of the blue do you mean your in tunnel mode and someone got the drop on you(thats your fault) if not and you didnt see him then thats the culling issue NOT THE THIEF okay anet are aware of this problem and working on it, the only way a thief can retain nearly perma stealth is a P/D thief and they have absolutely no burst at all.

Just left spawn, nobody goes into tunnel vision that early. Thief can teleport quite a distance, and has high movement speed. It might be the culling issue, or it might be the players skill.

3:if a theif kills you in say 5secs which the standard GC does then you are infact in glass cannon mode or your lying/extremely over exaggeration like 95% of all thief QQ threads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SymCAw2pZI

I wasn’t counting the finishing move, that’s kinda “already dead” without teammates around you.

4: you can not play in tunnel vision have a wide spread view you will see a GC thief before he attacks you i always do unless its a P/D theif then quite simply you use condi removers and proceed to CC him and apply Condis/burst damage onto him and he will be dead quite soon.

You seem to be assuming that everyone is playing in tunnel vision just because they’re not constantly spinning around. There are a lot of places where I can, even as an elementalist, run around undetected 15 feet from a group of enemy players. It is sometimes just not possible to spot people fast enough.

Not to mention the culling problem.

So yes it was a learn to play issue or your a liar please choose which one it was and move along, we shouldn’t see you posting anything about how OP thief are any time soon or do what i did and level the class and play it i learnt it strengths and weaknesses and now i beat every D/D gc unless i get culling issues in which case doesn’t bother me since i know anet are on the problem and i play a Engi btw

…

“You seem to be assuming that everyone is playing in tunnel vision just because they’re not constantly spinning around.” Thanks for proving my point that your a newb tunnel vision is when you have the camera in default and it follows behind you all’

I wasn’t counting the finishing move, that’s kinda “already dead” without teammates around you.

All you have shown me is GC ganking sub 80s what do you expect will happen, YOUR claiming that YOU a ele with full toughness/vit and a hp pool of 28k get killed in 1.5secs your video proves nothing except you were just saying mindless QQ to make yourself feel better nothing to see here folks just another L2P issue.

sceptus.9415:

Saw a video the other day of a thief climbing into towers and keeps at will and soloing them by himself.
.

I saw a video of a ranger doing the same thing.

Kodiack.2783:

If they just allowed the sPvP characters to play in Wv3 this would be a non issue. No more gear disparity.

They also need to remove armor repairs from WvW.

Art.9820:

LordByron.8369:

Art.9820:

Miku.7156:

There is a reason why everybody is changing to thief class

This made me lol, zergs full of thieves!!!! you’re pretty much lost if you are in a T1 server you will notice that the hype class right now is ele with a d/d build

No..

THIEVES players are starting to complain about D/D eles….
Also they NEVER support their theory with real facts…

check profiles…you ll find 90% of times complainers are thieves….

D/D ele have at least 4 couterclasses…

Nerf:
-P/D thieves
-Necromancers
-Rangers
-Mesmers

reality: are you sick of thieves? roll one yourself or their counterclass…..aka D/D ele that is the reason you see many nowaday…
Less thieves = less D/D eles (also because in sieges they are quite bad).

Funny thing is you see no D/D ele in PvE….there could be a reason.

I have seen D/D eles in PvE :O, kinda hard to believe people roll d/d eles to only counter thieves since most of them are helping zergs or love owning several underleveled targets (just like most of thieves out there who usually are the ones posting youtube videos….), d/d ele is awesome to mess with other zergs, 3 or 4 d/d eles can make a zerg spread out easily because people will try to evade them, like I said before everyone is focusing in 1v1 fights or small fights, if we talk about the big picture an ele or mesmer are way better at helping in WvW, most of those who were amazingly posting about their skillful thieves against underleveled targets are the ones complaining about d/d eles now, PLEASE TO EVERYONE don’t put every thief in the same picture, is just like those who call my server JQQ, when only a few complain about 2v1 or w/e new excuse they think of…..

as i said try to put some facts…..D/D are good about zergs? why? you don t even manage to get near….
Don t do like all thief players with empty sentences “i ve seen…i heard…D/D ele oneshot zhaitan itself…”
Its clear what is happening, just reading complaints….they never analyze a build, but get together numbers from glass cannon ele to defence of tank eles…….sometimes even complaining about skills from staff/scepter -.-

Its not a D/D ele can cleanse 10 conditions, you may get away with 2 max 3, and not root, daze and many others…..
Not to mention the lack of stability skills.

Eng can cover (and usually do) the zerg with mines, necros with poison, there are a whole range of countermeasurers for almost any class.

Wich countermesure do you have against stealth?
AoE in the hope you hit the thief?

I complain about thieves just for one reason…
Stealth is a mechanic that doesn t take in account defender skill.
That is bad design most compettiive games avoid.

I didn t even said that tieves are OP, stealth btw shouldn t exist in its current form…..
If adjusting it means that thieves becomes useless, its just enough to give them something to balance the loss.

And as i said i perfectly know we all fear nerfs because Anet is fast at nerfing but really slow to compensate…

But that doesn t mean that steath mechanic is fine…

I got hit for 5000 and then backstabbed by a guy for 8000 tonight in my full defensive setup and then followed up with him stealthing and finishing me while invisible.

Intended?

Furyos.9538:

I got hit for 5000 and then backstabbed by a guy for 8000 tonight in my full defensive setup and then followed up with him stealthing and finishing me while invisible.

Intended?

Oh, I’m sure he intended to do all of that to you, yup...

...

*runs away, dodging thrown objects*

Furyos.9538:

I got hit for 5000 and then backstabbed by a guy for 8000 tonight in my full defensive setup and then followed up with him stealthing and finishing me while invisible.

Intended?

I’d drop you just as fast on my mesmer and stake you with invuln instead of stealth.

Deal with it I guess?

geckon.4695:

the point is that u cant kill something that u cant see. it suck when you see your hp go down really fast and cant see the guy thats hitting u

Of course you can hit something you can’t see. You’re telling me you’ve never seen a thief get downed before while in stealth? I see this all the time. Thieves are not invincible. Yes, culling + stealth is ridiculous. Yes, if a thief is not overly aggressive they will probably be able to escape.

Miku.7156:

Hi Everybody,

After playing Gw2 for some months almost all my friends leaved the game and maybe arenanet can take this as a feedback on why so many people stopped playing this amazing game, the reason is balance, the balance on pvp. Currently there is a huge problem with one profession that is making the wvwvw to become a thiefvthiefvthief , all of my friends got sick of getting killed by 2 or 3 hits by an stealth thief who keep stealth for a lot of time even if already hitted you and what is worse killing you stealth while someone is resurrecting you. The other day we went to puzzle and 2 thiefs killed 6 of us because they was hitting stealth almost the whole combat and they hit hard.

Please dont take this only as b.hurt as it is not only the reason of why I am posting this today (never post on forums because I like to play and not to write) but also to take this as feedback on why a lot of people is leaving to other games even when I consider this one of the best games I ever played.

Hope arenanet do something about this.

I do agree with this post,something must be done about thieves,fighting an unseen enemy whos able to attack you while being
invis and unable to be targetted or even to be hit…Is a big Flaw in the game imo.Ive seen countless of thieves downing players with ease in Stealth + Attacking, and then finishing Also in stealth…Espec the people that Know about the rendering delay and use it to their advantage being invisible 99% of the time,sorry but if i want to play Vs unseen enemys il play some Ghostbusters.

left*
fifteen c

Caedmon.6798:

,fighting an unseen enemy whos able to attack you while being
invis and unable to be targetted or even to be hit…

This is not how stealth works. It doesn’t offer any sort of evasion, just protection from being seen or targeted.

And the people who continue to complain about stealth stomps need to offer up some kind of reason as to why stealth stomps are broken but not the more powerful invuln, stability, and quickness stomps. Stealth stomp is by far the easiest to counter of the “special” stomps.

Tulisin.6945:

Caedmon.6798:

,fighting an unseen enemy whos able to attack you while being
invis and unable to be targetted or even to be hit…

This is not how stealth works. It doesn’t offer any sort of evasion, just protection from being seen or targeted.

And the people who continue to complain about stealth stomps need to offer up some kind of reason as to why stealth stomps are broken but not the more powerful invuln, stability, and quickness stomps. Stealth stomp is by far the easiest to counter of the “special” stomps.

Yep, Chaos Storm stomps, blind field stomps. There are ton of stomps and yes stealth is the most worthless one. It’s actually required to stealth for most Thieves to stomp without losing at least 50% health from just the downed person let alone anyone else. The majority of classes can still avoid a stealth stomp with their #2 downed ability as well. Here is a hint, if you die to Cloak and Dagger or you see a Thief stealth near you at all when you are down, assume they started the stomp right after that. Now you know when to use #2 because you know how long a normal stomp animation is right?

LordByron.8369:

Art.9820:

LordByron.8369:

Art.9820:

Miku.7156:

There is a reason why everybody is changing to thief class

This made me lol, zergs full of thieves!!!! you’re pretty much lost if you are in a T1 server you will notice that the hype class right now is ele with a d/d build

No..

THIEVES players are starting to complain about D/D eles….
Also they NEVER support their theory with real facts…

check profiles…you ll find 90% of times complainers are thieves….

D/D ele have at least 4 couterclasses…

Nerf:
-P/D thieves
-Necromancers
-Rangers
-Mesmers

reality: are you sick of thieves? roll one yourself or their counterclass…..aka D/D ele that is the reason you see many nowaday…
Less thieves = less D/D eles (also because in sieges they are quite bad).

Funny thing is you see no D/D ele in PvE….there could be a reason.

I have seen D/D eles in PvE :O, kinda hard to believe people roll d/d eles to only counter thieves since most of them are helping zergs or love owning several underleveled targets (just like most of thieves out there who usually are the ones posting youtube videos….), d/d ele is awesome to mess with other zergs, 3 or 4 d/d eles can make a zerg spread out easily because people will try to evade them, like I said before everyone is focusing in 1v1 fights or small fights, if we talk about the big picture an ele or mesmer are way better at helping in WvW, most of those who were amazingly posting about their skillful thieves against underleveled targets are the ones complaining about d/d eles now, PLEASE TO EVERYONE don’t put every thief in the same picture, is just like those who call my server JQQ, when only a few complain about 2v1 or w/e new excuse they think of…..

as i said try to put some facts…..D/D are good about zergs? why? you don t even manage to get near….
Don t do like all thief players with empty sentences “i ve seen…i heard…D/D ele oneshot zhaitan itself…”
Its clear what is happening, just reading complaints….they never analyze a build, but get together numbers from glass cannon ele to defence of tank eles…….sometimes even complaining about skills from staff/scepter -.-

Its not a D/D ele can cleanse 10 conditions, you may get away with 2 max 3, and not root, daze and many others…..
Not to mention the lack of stability skills.

Eng can cover (and usually do) the zerg with mines, necros with poison, there are a whole range of countermeasurers for almost any class.

Wich countermesure do you have against stealth?
AoE in the hope you hit the thief?

I complain about thieves just for one reason…
Stealth is a mechanic that doesn t take in account defender skill.
That is bad design most compettiive games avoid.

I didn t even said that tieves are OP, stealth btw shouldn t exist in its current form…..
If adjusting it means that thieves becomes useless, its just enough to give them something to balance the loss.

And as i said i perfectly know we all fear nerfs because Anet is fast at nerfing but really slow to compensate…

But that doesn t mean that steath mechanic is fine…

Let me quote what you said before “Funny thing is you see no D/D ele in PvE….there could be a reason.” way too ironic you ask for proves, I have seen d/d eles do great in CoF they are really useful to survive, just because most of people have MF gear it doesn’t mean no one uses a common dmg or defensive set ^ ^, but if you are complaining about game mechanics please do enlighten me, how am I supposed to counter warrior and guardian invulnerability?, mesmer massive illusion spam?, necros fear? oh w8… you can’t right? only by confusing, running away or trying to interrupt? just like you would do against any thief trying to stealth? so in end you have to learn to deal with it ^ ^, until most of ppl in here lower their ego and start looking at the big picture of what WvW stands for and not to care about their random 1v1 which no one will ever know about, then we will actually have a real discussion, you want a real game modifier? what about mesmer portal? who can easily teleport 20 members inside a keep that can lead to a complete mess in the map against the other team, that’s ONE SKILL that really have an impact in WvW, I don’t have anything against portals thought, anyways…. most people are just raging about stealth ,they just want to able to say…. OMGZ I BEAT A THIEF, I’m sorry but no one in here have a real argument against stealth, if you are asking to counter thieves main benefit then we should do it with all classes

Art.9820:

LordByron.8369:

Art.9820:

I have seen D/D eles in PvE :O, kinda hard to believe people roll d/d eles to only counter thieves since most of them are helping zergs or love owning several underleveled targets (just like most of thieves out there who usually are the ones posting youtube videos….), d/d ele is awesome to mess with other zergs, 3 or 4 d/d eles can make a zerg spread out easily because people will try to evade them, like I said before everyone is focusing in 1v1 fights or small fights, if we talk about the big picture an ele or mesmer are way better at helping in WvW, most of those who were amazingly posting about their skillful thieves against underleveled targets are the ones complaining about d/d eles now, PLEASE TO EVERYONE don’t put every thief in the same picture, is just like those who call my server JQQ, when only a few complain about 2v1 or w/e new excuse they think of…..

as i said try to put some facts…..D/D are good about zergs? why? you don t even manage to get near….
Don t do like all thief players with empty sentences “i ve seen…i heard…D/D ele oneshot zhaitan itself…”
Its clear what is happening, just reading complaints….they never analyze a build, but get together numbers from glass cannon ele to defence of tank eles…….sometimes even complaining about skills from staff/scepter -.-

Its not a D/D ele can cleanse 10 conditions, you may get away with 2 max 3, and not root, daze and many others…..
Not to mention the lack of stability skills.

Eng can cover (and usually do) the zerg with mines, necros with poison, there are a whole range of countermeasurers for almost any class.

Wich countermesure do you have against stealth?
AoE in the hope you hit the thief?

I complain about thieves just for one reason…
Stealth is a mechanic that doesn t take in account defender skill.
That is bad design most compettiive games avoid.

I didn t even said that tieves are OP, stealth btw shouldn t exist in its current form…..
If adjusting it means that thieves becomes useless, its just enough to give them something to balance the loss.

And as i said i perfectly know we all fear nerfs because Anet is fast at nerfing but really slow to compensate…

But that doesn t mean that steath mechanic is fine…

Let me quote what you said before “Funny thing is you see no D/D ele in PvE….there could be a reason.” way too ironic you ask for proves, I have seen d/d eles do great in CoF they are really useful to survive, just because most of people have MF gear it doesn’t mean no one uses a common dmg or defensive set ^ ^, but if you are complaining about game mechanics please do enlighten me, how am I supposed to counter warrior and guardian invulnerability?, mesmer massive illusion spam?, necros fear? oh w8… you can’t right? only by confusing, running away or trying to interrupt? just like you would do against any thief trying to stealth? so in end you have to learn to deal with it ^ ^, until most of ppl in here lower their ego and start looking at the big picture of what WvW stands for and not to care about their random 1v1 which no one will ever know about, then we will actually have a real discussion, you want a real game modifier? what about mesmer portal? who can easily teleport 20 members inside a keep that can lead to a complete mess in the map against the other team, that’s ONE SKILL that really have an impact in WvW, I don’t have anything against portals thought, anyways…. most people are just raging about stealth ,they just want to able to say…. OMGZ I BEAT A THIEF, I’m sorry but no one in here have a real argument against stealth, if you are asking to counter thieves main benefit then we should do it with all classes

Are you serious ? been able to kill someone stealth is fair to you ? The real argument is that for whatever reason is (lag, culling, rendering…) we cant see thiefs most of the times in combat which make this “ridiculous”, your argument of have the power to kill someone who cant see nor target you in most of the times is pretty lame also the argument of we (all other classes) need to spam aoe just to have the “luck” to get on you is also very very LAME, you dont only can hit stealth but you can hit high crits wich make “luck” to “win the jackpot” with several players doing aoe to get on one thief. I still cant believe the arguments of the people who defend thiefs current skills, now I understand when psychologists say that there are people who live on their own worlds, as long as you are happy you dont care about everyone else.

Miku.7156:

Are you serious ? been able to kill someone stealth is fair to you

Let me rephrase that…. Are you serious? been able to kill someone while you’re invulnerable is fair to you? :P, buddy I really don’t care if thieves get nerfed like I told you before I don’t run 2 hit builds most of the time I’m running supplies or defending camps and towers

Miku.7156:

now I understand when psychologists say that there are people who live on their own worlds, as long as you are happy you dont care about everyone else.

oh everyone does , if nerfin thief makes you happy, good for you then…. I really hope they do it, w/e floats your boat, but I keep what I said, everyone here just want thief nerfed selfishly I haven’t seen a real argument yet

cannons.8109:

Facts: (1) Anet will never balance classes around WvW; and (2) Anet will never fix culling. Therefore, thief will always be OP in WvW. Deal with it. It takes only a few days to level a thief to 80, and you should have caves full of gold by now to gear your toons, so there’s no reason to QQ.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/New-Culling-Trial-Ended/page/7#post997750

Culling never been broken they are testing new methods, please do some research before stating something :P