Guild Wars 2

How fast do you all think they’ll roll it back? I can already see the fields of siege hoping to rack up the points. Theres just too many random things going on in wvw to make it a useful scoring mode. PPK only maps tho hmm I might go for that.

I support a Points per kill system, the PPT race we have now is just to rewarding for servers with best coverage and doesn’t really say anything about fights. PvE in a PvP enviroment is just laughable imo. There’s always EOTM for that type of roleplay!

I doubt anything to change in Silver aside from the german and french servers who already prefer to hide in towers. Just another reason for them to PvD and waypoint fast.
It would be fun to see how it would affect Gold though since they blob each other 24/7 almost.

If it’s PPK and not stomp, FA will overtake BG. :-O

It’ll be interesting to see what happens. I imagine uplevels will catch even more abuse once this kicks in, and that the game’s going to become blobbier in general.

Ya I could totally see my server Jade Quarry easily winning this one. When it comes to strategy and taking out zergs by far Jade Quarry is the best server.

Kaos.9162:

It’ll be interesting to see what happens. I imagine uplevels will catch even more abuse once this kicks in, and that the game’s going to become blobbier in general.

They can always just award points for players that are 80.

Where it would change my behavior is that there are a lot of times where I’ll throw myself into a fight that I know I can’t win just to see how long I can stay up and to make things more interesting for my opponents. I’ll charge into a fight outnumbered or I might stay in a lord’s room when the wall goes down. Most of the time, I die from DPS so there are no points involved. If it’s going to become a serious points issue, I’ll do that less or maybe not at all because there is a penalty to my server for doing so.

Berk.8561:

…I’ll throw myself into a fight that I know I can’t win just to see how long I can stay up and to make things more interesting for my opponents. I’ll charge into a fight outnumbered or I might stay in a lord’s room when the wall goes down.

I like the lack of any sort of death penalty in wvw for exactly this reason. PPK would make avoiding dying at all costs a superior option in a large number of cases, which is the last thing you want in a pvp mode.

ppk would be worse then ppt, hey lets win this week everyone must stay with the zerg and only with the zerg and we win kittening brilliant

It’ll be like 5 points per kill. Get over it. Not that big of a deal lol. Dying isn’t that big of a deal, it takes 30 seconds to get back out there and rek someone else.

Blackie.3912:

It’ll be like 5 points per kill. Get over it. Not that big of a deal lol. Dying isn’t that big of a deal, it takes 30 seconds to get back out there and rek someone else.

5 points per kill would mean your entire team across all 4 maps only has to make 9.23 kills per minute to get more points than permanently holding 695 ppt.

Now the fights are just waste of time if you go for points. You must to avoid all the fights and ninja cap, siege up and sit in towers. Zerg buster guilds just hurt the server atm. They are not going for ppt just wasting of places on borders.

What If ppk was a tick score like holding a keep. That is – not really a ppk, but25-30 points per tick for the server with the most kills (out of 725 instead of 695) , maybe everyone can play how they want without drastically changing play style of everyone.

Of course the 25-30 is up for discussion and maybe ppk is a 50-25-0 pool or something ( differentiating 2nd from 3rd)

I think we are running away with a couple of lines in a single post versus a conversation. I read the same section and read it as PPT with more emphasis on PPK, not purely PPK. I wouldn’t run too far down the rabbit hole until the discussion thread is up.

They can always design a system that doesnt award points when the player has been the victim of siege in the past x duration.

Not very hard to promote active combat and not siege warfare.

I agree that there are ways to promote fights vs siege warfare. I strongly suspect that is not going to be the system they choose.

Once again If PPK is to become a major part of the weekly score, IN GAME moderators need to be placed to deal with the initial abuse spike they will cause.

Once past that spike things will likely settle, possibly with lower participation numbers but I have hopes it will increase those playing WvW.

It will impact the score fairly significant with these numbers and that could also lead to (bot)hubs clubbing other accounts to manipulate scores, whenever there’s something on the line.

LionZero.3479:

It will impact the score fairly significant with these numbers and that could also lead to (bot)hubs clubbing other accounts to manipulate scores, whenever there’s something on the line.

They can control that the same way they control how much exp/wxp you get from a player that got recently killed.

Well, considering Kaineng has officially lost every guild capable of fielding a zerg, so we only have roamers, were screwed. Maybe if it is scaled to active WvW population, or the scale of the fight: I.e. 1v3 gives 1 point for killing the solo, but the solo gets 2 points per kill. Since we are literally incapable of fighting or fielding a blob, this system would be interesting.

Oh god the OP is so right. This will be really bad for WvW if they count kills from siege.

Liston.9708:

What If ppk was a tick score like holding a keep. That is – not really a ppk, but25-30 points per tick for the server with the most kills (out of 725 instead of 695) , maybe everyone can play how they want without drastically changing play style of everyone.

- This is absolutely how it should be done. Fixed number of points per kill would change things too much and would be difficult to balance in relation to holding objectives. I like the idea that the server with most kills in the tick period would receive a flat bonus to their score.

PPK won’t solve the issues at all, but will certainly make WvW a less friendly place. All bravado aside, equally matched most servers are probably fairly close in kill counts. However, when there is a more dominate server they will get more kills consistently due to larger zergs, more gank squads, etc. This only gives the higher populated dominate server a bigger lead. So once again the coverage issue isn’t solved at all, it’s made worse. We need a scoring system that solves the coverage/population imbalances. Then of course we will have the roamers, uplevels, and casuals getting harassed in chat for giving the other servers kills.

implement 10 point per stomp now. argue later.

that way we can exclude kill by siege.

I’m afraid this will only encourage servers to blob even more, which means large servers win again… Pair that with “no white swords” change and what you get is huge blobs running around PvDing every keep and tower.

I see 2 groups benefitting from this.

Fighting guilds/groups, as these types of groups should be able to go against larger forces and at least kill as much if not more of that group than there are of themselves.

Second, servers losing the PPT battle. If you’re consistently losing the PPT battle, well, here’s your chance to make up for that. Go on the warpath and try to win fights.

Thing is, I say win fights, but it won’t simply be last man standing, it’ll be who killed the most and lost the least. So a larger population server may be hurt by this if they aren’t able to reliably keep the 1:1 or better ratio of kills to deaths even if core groups are able to finish off opposing groups.

This will be a chance for servers and guilds who feel like they are more capable to really put it to the servers who just have numbers or run in big blobs.

I’m excited for the idea. Combined with the limited rallies I think this will be a great change. I really hope it doesn’t lead to a bunch of siege hugging cowards, but I see how it might. But, eventually I think it’d even out as people would get bored and even when holding your towers/keeps, you can break in without too many losses if you play smart, and once you break into their territory they’ll have to take it back…use the PPT to force the fights.

Play well, up your game, and this change should benefit you, if you fail to do that then yeah I can see how it could seem bad.

PPK would be nice but it has to take into account the size of both groups. Outnumbered no PPK award to enemies, killed by 2-5x your number no PPK awarded to your enemy.

I know there aren’t too many people frequenting the Sanctum jumping puzzles but i feel like the ppk should not count within the jp’s.

By this point any kind of change is a good change.

Ulion.5476:

PPK would be nice but it has to take into account the size of both groups. Outnumbered no PPK award to enemies, killed by 2-5x your number no PPK awarded to your enemy.

that would be too extreme. how about double PPK when outnumbered ?

Azizul it wont be extreme. When outnumbered you mostly dont have any chance to fight because enemy outblobs you.
And because much smaller force needs to fight blob, msot the time without any chance, it means they will give give points to enemy blob.
Remember, if at least one guild group with 25 players is on borderland most of the time you wont be outnumbered.

I agree. The outnumbered buff should prevent ppk on that BL map for the larger force from counting. Seems reasonable.

There could also be a limitation in place for just how many kills can count per turn, as well.

On top of that a ppk combo system could be implemented to multiply ppk based on certain criteria like whether or not you get the kills while defending a keep or tower or alone or in a small group or how many kills you get back to back within a certain amount of time.

Or most importantly, if you get the kill while defending a yak…. Off TopicActually, i feel like we need a Points Per Yak (PPY) score as well:P Off Topic

Limitations, well on T1 servers sometimes you will be able to hit limit, but not on lower rank servers. I play on RoF and limit would need to be pretty low so we can hit it.

Jeknar.6184:

Kaos.9162:

It’ll be interesting to see what happens. I imagine uplevels will catch even more abuse once this kicks in, and that the game’s going to become blobbier in general.

They can always just award points for players that are 80.

This could be VERY interesting; it would be fun to see hardcore PPT servers running “uplevels ONLY” during Season as a new meta, simply to deny PPK from enemy servers.

azizul.8469:

implement 10 point per stomp now. argue later.

that way we can exclude kill by siege.

Yes, and can we get 25 Points for Knockback Off a Cliff, please? That’s gotta be worth at least the same a Keep! (^_^)

Scryeless.1924:

Actually, i feel like we need a Points Per Yak (PPY) score as well:P

We already have this; it’s 3 Points each time you kill a Yak (you deny the enemy server 3 Points each time you successfully defend a Yak).

we would have to see what ppk does to encourage/discourage the zerg, but at least this system promotes fights instead of running from them to cap some tower.

imo wvw should be about fights, and objective taking a secondary objective.

hypothesis: i think smaller servers could get the upper hand if enough of the players are good at pvp and know how to maneuver in wvw.

PPK is going to reward omni-blobbing. Forget any small man fun. It’s going to be blobbing, bunkering, turtling, and hiding behind walls to win. When dieing wasn’t penalized, players were free to engage any fight, any time. Then bloodlust reduced the times in which we could yolo for fun. Now, with PPK, that fun will be gone for good.

Even when we had armor repair cost, I always engaged a fight no matter if it was v2, v5, or v zerg. My motto was, if you aren’t going thru a couple of sets of armor repaired in a night, you aren’t trying hard enough.

PPK combats the overnight PPT advantages some servers have with their overwhelming coverage. If the NA time slot can hold the PPT well and win the majority of the fights (which is what I find usually happens), it is possible to negate SEA blobs running the map.

For me personally, this change was needed badly; however, we’ll have to wait and see for it’s full effect. At least there is a trial period.

DeWolfe.2174:

PPK is going to reward omni-blobbing. Forget any small man fun. It’s going to be blobbing, bunkering, turtling, and hiding behind walls to win. When dieing wasn’t penalized, players were free to engage any fight, any time. Then bloodlust reduced the times in which we could yolo for fun. Now, with PPK, that fun will be gone for good.

Even when we had armor repair cost, I always engaged a fight no matter if it was v2, v5, or v zerg. My motto was, if you aren’t going thru a couple of sets of armor repaired in a night, you aren’t trying hard enough.

I’m afraid this is absolutely correct. Unless there is a mechanic to promote running in smaller groups and killing larger groups. Solo-roaming will most likely be completely dead unless you have lots of stealth.

The only people still roaming will be those who just don’t care and want fights.

Solo and small group roaming will benefit from this change. It is great that our efforts will properly reward the server. Map blobs doing the avoidance/back capping dance will suffer, it’s a win, win.

It may even have the benefit of reducing the zerg size and promote smaller, tactical groups that can achieve a high K/D ratio. Anything that discourages lazy play and promotes aggression is a good thing imo.

Flyphish.6398:

Solo and small group roaming will benefit from this change. It is great that our efforts will properly reward the server. Map blobs doing the avoidance/back capping dance will suffer, it’s a win, win.

I see it as a double edged sword for those solo rare solo roamers, who don’t have an easy way to avoid enemy group (e.g. no stealth). Now point wise it makes no sense for a zerg to chase down a solo guy or even two guys, but players don’t always behave rationally.

I also see a possible exploit here using multiple accounts. Kill a character controlled by your secondary account. Revive the dead with a buddy (or 3rd account). Rinse and repeat. You can make this very fast using more accounts e.g. AoE bomb 5 “enemies” at same time all under your own control. This could easily create a lot of points fast!

To make this less profitable: players should not be worth any point if they have been killed recently.* Perhaps even take it further that repeated kills by the same enemy will incur a longer delay of giving no points. Better yet: don’t give any points from player kills or stomps (since both of them can be abused, just like I described above).

Since larger group generally has an advantage over the smaller one and it is difficult to score any kills if enemy runs in a big blob and you run in small group and have just few players on the map, I can see this change hugely benefiting those servers, which blob. This change is actually the pushing the meta even more towards zerging, just like all the previous changes. Arenanet should do more anti-zerg scoring changes, not encourage it.

PS. I hope the administrators of this forum will not infract this message. If it breaks the rules, just delete it, but please pass this information to the developers. Please don’t create more loop holes to this game or make it even more imbalanced. Give players choices to zerging, which reward as well.

Phule.1968:

I support a Points per kill system, the PPT race we have now is just to rewarding for servers with best coverage and doesn’t really say anything about fights. PvE in a PvP enviroment is just laughable imo. There’s always EOTM for that type of roleplay!

Amen!

Coldtart.4785:

Berk.8561:

…I’ll throw myself into a fight that I know I can’t win just to see how long I can stay up and to make things more interesting for my opponents. I’ll charge into a fight outnumbered or I might stay in a lord’s room when the wall goes down.

I like the lack of any sort of death penalty in wvw for exactly this reason. PPK would make avoiding dying at all costs a superior option in a large number of cases, which is the last thing you want in a pvp mode.

Exactly this. We have enough ‘run awaaaaaaay!!!!1!!’ players as it is. I don’t object to PPK in general but the cost per death needs to be low enough that it doesn’t significanly promote the turtle/run away mentality because that destroys PVP games.

Distaste.4801:

PPK won’t solve the issues at all, but will certainly make WvW a less friendly place. All bravado aside, equally matched most servers are probably fairly close in kill counts. However, when there is a more dominate server they will get more kills consistently due to larger zergs, more gank squads, etc. This only gives the higher populated dominate server a bigger lead. So once again the coverage issue isn’t solved at all, it’s made worse. We need a scoring system that solves the coverage/population imbalances. Then of course we will have the roamers, uplevels, and casuals getting harassed in chat for giving the other servers kills.

This.

All PPK will do is create more hostility to people deemed lesser players. Fiddling with the point system will not make the gamemode any better. I dare say it will only be more detrimental to the gamemode. In fact I can see servers imploding with this.

Conner.4702:

Distaste.4801:

PPK won’t solve the issues at all, but will certainly make WvW a less friendly place. All bravado aside, equally matched most servers are probably fairly close in kill counts. However, when there is a more dominate server they will get more kills consistently due to larger zergs, more gank squads, etc. This only gives the higher populated dominate server a bigger lead. So once again the coverage issue isn’t solved at all, it’s made worse. We need a scoring system that solves the coverage/population imbalances. Then of course we will have the roamers, uplevels, and casuals getting harassed in chat for giving the other servers kills.

This.

All PPK will do is create more hostility to people deemed lesser players. Fiddling with the point system will not make the gamemode any better. I dare say it will only be more detrimental to the gamemode. In fact I can see servers imploding with this.

That’s all it will do? It won’t reward worlds for winning fights? it won’t water down PPT?

I understand the arguments against it, but that phrase simply rubbed me the wrong way, there are certainly pros and cons and much more than possibly creating a more toxic environment.

Jerus.4350:

Conner.4702:

Distaste.4801:

PPK won’t solve the issues at all, but will certainly make WvW a less friendly place. All bravado aside, equally matched most servers are probably fairly close in kill counts. However, when there is a more dominate server they will get more kills consistently due to larger zergs, more gank squads, etc. This only gives the higher populated dominate server a bigger lead. So once again the coverage issue isn’t solved at all, it’s made worse. We need a scoring system that solves the coverage/population imbalances. Then of course we will have the roamers, uplevels, and casuals getting harassed in chat for giving the other servers kills.

This.

All PPK will do is create more hostility to people deemed lesser players. Fiddling with the point system will not make the gamemode any better. I dare say it will only be more detrimental to the gamemode. In fact I can see servers imploding with this.

That’s all it will do? It won’t reward worlds for winning fights? it won’t water down PPT?

I understand the arguments against it, but that phrase simply rubbed me the wrong way, there are certainly pros and cons and much more than possibly creating a more toxic environment.

Failing to see the bigger picture often happens to people with tunnel vision. You want fights so you simply don´t care about the consequences on how it will affect playtime outside or during of primetime. Not everyone plays for fights.

PPK after Maguuma imploded. You’re Welcome!

There are a number of scenarios to consider;

Preface: ppt scoring system and coverage mean that some servers will never “win” vs certain other servers. Some of the people from these servers believe ppk gives them a chance to show their superior skills, motivating more people to fight. we can only hope they are right.

On to the scenarios; ( assumming ppk is 5 points or higher per kill)

I routinely run into towers keeps etc to contest a circle to buy my team a few seconds response. For myself with ppk. I will no longer do this.

I routinely leap off walls to destroy enemy siege when waypoint is below 30 seconds.

With ppk i will no longer do this.

I routinely roam on all my characters to learn how they function.

With ppk I will only roam on characters with superior escape skills.

Currently I welcome all players to wvw and help them learn in the chance they become regular WvW ers.

With ppk, I am unsure if I can continue to do this as a server loyalist.

Good luck all

Is PPK modified by the “outmanned” buff?

I can see PPK having a negative impact on participation if they are outmanned.

Stomps or nothing.

ArchonWing.9480:

Stomps or nothing.

Bloodlust?