Guild Wars 2

Just wondering if people think w/ Revenants if stab will work again or not.

Have to say, I tried to put up with the change (I’m a returning player) and the game is about 100x less fun the way it is now.

Dano.5298:

Just wondering if people think w/ Revenants if stab will work again or not.

Have to say, I tried to put up with the change (I’m a returning player) and the game is about 100x less fun the way it is now.

It is hard to say less or more fun. Every class has received nerfs and buffs the last few months. Some have created game breaking mechanics.

Stab changed the dynamics of zerg warfare at the most fundamental value. Condi bombs have gathered traction.

So I leave it to you if you are good or bad.

Fuzzion.2504:

Dano.5298:

Just wondering if people think w/ Revenants if stab will work again or not.

Have to say, I tried to put up with the change (I’m a returning player) and the game is about 100x less fun the way it is now.

It is hard to say less or more fun. Every class has received nerfs and buffs the last few months. Some have created game breaking mechanics.

Stab changed the dynamics of zerg warfare at the most fundamental value. Condi bombs have gathered traction.

So I leave it to you if you are good or bad.

So it’s just 100% my opinion on the fun part, obviously. I can’t imagine people enjoying playing frontline anymore in an outnumbered fight, considering the skills you have to make you effective are ineffective now.

But, I understand others may like the change, and that’s great. But I have seen many people quit over the change and I’m considering that myself. So, just a preference thing..

Point of the thread though was I was looking at revanents skills and as far as I could see, stab really won’t be any better. You can throw a road down quite often and get two stacks of stab pulsing… As a guard, I will pop all of my stab (8 stacks) just to see if I can move almost in a group and I can’t… Am I missing something with reveant being better at giving stab?

I agree with you Dano, I enjoy playing both front and backline, but the way stability works now, frontline can’t do much without burning through cooldowns the way we used to be able to play. People have been running their backlines more than their frontline just cuz it’s a lot easier to stand back n drop your aoe’s:/

But on the other hand, you learn to cope, change your builds, change your tactics. I’ve found it to still be fun with my frontline, but it’s a lot riskier.

Dano.5298:

As a guard, I will pop all of my stab (8 stacks) just to see if I can move almost in a group and I can’t…

This is a numbers issue. 8 stacks dont do much when there are 50 CCs thrown out in a second, but 8 stacks is also ridiculously OP 1v1.

Stability doesnt need a “buff”, it need a rebalance. Skill that give a high number of stacks need to low pulsing number instead. Some skills have this, like elite skills. Some are stupid weak like giving 1 stack for half a second. Anet did it halfarsed.

Well, currently the problem is that it doesn’t stack in duration. Skilled groups can cycle their stability well enough but anyone else tends to burn them off sync and suffer a lot more than they used to.

I don’t think any big adjustments are needed but I wouldn’t object to them. Personally, I think soft CC is the worst. Well, one, I think warrior stability is somewhat lacking.

ArchonWing.9480:

Well, one, I think warrior stability is somewhat lacking.

To be fair, they by far make up for it with their ability to simply brush off cc like immobilize instead.

Ven Zehn.6573:

I agree with you Dano, I enjoy playing both front and backline, but the way stability works now, frontline can’t do much without burning through cooldowns the way we used to be able to play. People have been running their backlines more than their frontline just cuz it’s a lot easier to stand back n drop your aoe’s:/

But on the other hand, you learn to cope, change your builds, change your tactics. I’ve found it to still be fun with my frontline, but it’s a lot riskier.

Yeah exactly, you have to play much less aggressive, which I maintain is a bad thing for the game because it encourages a game style of blobbing and fights tend to not reach a conclusion unless one group is less patient than another. Rezzing is also incredibly OP atm and that doesn’t help.

When it comes to adjusting, I find that the only real adjustment you can make is to try to bait out wells/ccs but again when there are so many people in one group, it doesn’t matter if you bait out 20 ppls cooldowns when there are 30 more ready to use. I find the role of a frontliner atm is to be a straight up meat shield for your lights to bomb. Thats just a lame play style for a lot of people to accept.

So, yes you can adjust ofc. Its just that the adjustment isn’t nearly as rewarding or as fun. Looking at Revanants skills also doesn’t seem like that will change.. and in fact, it will probably be worse.

ArchonWing.9480:

Well, currently the problem is that it doesn’t stack in duration. Skilled groups can cycle their stability well enough but anyone else tends to burn them off sync and suffer a lot more than they used to.

I don’t think any big adjustments are needed but I wouldn’t object to them. Personally, I think soft CC is the worst. Well, one, I think warrior stability is somewhat lacking.

This is bologna about the skills groups. We run 2 double stab guards per party, call stabs pretty well and do our best to cycle effectively. Stab is just entirely too nerfed to where that doesn’t even matter.

Soft CC is easy to deal with if you have skilled players on the other hand, and builds that counter soft ccs. Currently, there is no counter or “skilled” way to work with 16 stab stacks per party. Not against the WvW blob community.

Dawdler.8521:

Dano.5298:

As a guard, I will pop all of my stab (8 stacks) just to see if I can move almost in a group and I can’t…

This is a numbers issue. 8 stacks dont do much when there are 50 CCs thrown out in a second, but 8 stacks is also ridiculously OP 1v1.

Stability doesnt need a “buff”, it need a rebalance. Skill that give a high number of stacks need to low pulsing number instead. Some skills have this, like elite skills. Some are stupid weak like giving 1 stack for half a second. Anet did it halfarsed.

So why would having a pulsing stab that pulses say 3 stacks per second help at all versus 50 CCs? Actually sounds worse?

So it seems to me the entire complaint is that some cannot succeed after they took the ability away to completely ignore 1/4 of the skills of your enemies in the game.

Stability was OP. Those who cannot function without it, as 6 out of 8 professions have since release, are a shining example of how they did not develop the skill to play without it.

Dawdler.8521:

ArchonWing.9480:

Well, one, I think warrior stability is somewhat lacking.

To be fair, they by far make up for it with their ability to simply brush off cc like immobilize instead.

To be fair Immob is broken beyond belief.

There’s no reason a condition should be stronger than a hard CC.

Dano.5298:

ArchonWing.9480:

Well, currently the problem is that it doesn’t stack in duration. Skilled groups can cycle their stability well enough but anyone else tends to burn them off sync and suffer a lot more than they used to.

I don’t think any big adjustments are needed but I wouldn’t object to them. Personally, I think soft CC is the worst. Well, one, I think warrior stability is somewhat lacking.

This is bologna about the skills groups. We run 2 double stab guards per party, call stabs pretty well and do our best to cycle effectively. Stab is just entirely too nerfed to where that doesn’t even matter.

That’s strange. If stab is nerfed to the point where it doesn’t matter, then why are you devoting 40% of your comp to it?

But that’s not my point. My point was that disorganized groups that can’t manage it are far worse off. The other point is that duration remains an issue.

dancingmonkey.4902:

So it seems to me the entire complaint is that some cannot succeed after they took the ability away to completely ignore 1/4 of the skills of your enemies in the game.

Stability was OP. Those who cannot function without it, as 6 out of 8 professions have since release, are a shining example of how they did not develop the skill to play without it.

Well, stability can be corrupted too, so it’s not necessarily completely ignored at any point due to the extreme popularity of Well of Corruption.

And even if we do accept that stability was OP, and you certainly have many reasons to think that, I still think it’s okay to argue about whether the degree of change is acceptable enough to allow for fun play. I mean, personally, I think it brought some extra options, but took away quite a few. Also, hard CC was also a pretty big thing before the stability change anyways, considering the “hammer trains” Also, even back then, considering that the 2 guardian per party thing was a thing as discussed above before this, I would actually levy the accusation that hard CC has always been really strong, because why else would people devote nearly 1/2 their composition to countering it? I mean, of course, this is strictly anecdotal, but it seemed to be a thing many people were believing in; so it at least meant that they were fearing hard CC.

I mean, let’s take cleanses as another example. With -40% duration food and cleanse spam, many people can ignore a lot of the skills in the game that bring conditions upon people do. Is that necessarily overpowered, or just a natural counter? If tomorrow, they decided to remove -condi duration food, and limit each cleanse skill to remove a max of 1 condition, I think it’d be subject to a little debate here and there.

While I hesitate to really toss my own verdict in; to me it is unclear at the moment, but I don’t think it’s ok to dismiss all these complaints as well.

dancingmonkey.4902:

So it seems to me the entire complaint is that some cannot succeed after they took the ability away to completely ignore 1/4 of the skills of your enemies in the game.

Stability was OP. Those who cannot function without it, as 6 out of 8 professions have since release, are a shining example of how they did not develop the skill to play without it.

Stabi had to be op cause cc in this Game is op too.
simple math
Frontline Party with 2 guards have 5 +3 stacks per Push(the 3 every 2. push)
so the whole frontline Party can ignore 7 cc effect per Push. Doesnt matter how many Fl Party´s exist cause Stabi shouts are 5 man limited like nearly every skill in this game.

1. 15vs 15 ppl gvg/opelfield fight
the enemy had maybe 6 guardian staff 5 walls so 3 per push cause of cd
3-4 ele with static + earth 4 so maybe 2 each of them per push
+maybe necro playing fear wall
+
+random 5 man target limit cc like hammer war/guard ring or pull necro staff 5…

the target unlimited cc alone kill all/nearly all stacks even if some cc miss.
and all these cc had 1200 range so its pretty easy too hit.
So if the enmy bl land all ranged cc the 5 stacks from stabi shout are gone with much luck maybe 2 left cause many enemy sleeping with ther cc. these 2 + 3 from f3 you need for the random target limited cc
In short you need all your stacks if the enemy hit´s all there range cc in your fl (doesn´t very hard to hit) you are running out of stacks after maybe 2/3 of the enemy cc and you get rekt in necro bomb and die in seconds gg.

so far maybe balanced in 15v15 and lower
but in 30vs30 or t1 60vs60 fights you are f+cked caue you had the same amount of stack per party but the enemy had 2x or 4x the cc he needs to kill all your stacks.

the cc not get hit by the 5 man target limit so in bigger fights range is op as hell atm.
just spam cc like a monkey on the push and nobody can move anymore. gg there is the pirate shi(p)t

In my eye´best way too get rid of this boring meta is reroll to old stabi or massive nerf to cc cd of most skills + 5 mann target limit on cc so if a static/wall/ring kill 5 stacks of stability it dissapears. Most cc in this game is ranged and extremly easy to land.

Since day 1 of the patch i hate the change and the very sad thing it´s only inflicts wvw. in pvp you never kill all 5/10 stacks mot stabi skills give you o it´s in fact the same effect as before but its kill the wvw the only mode of this game i really play.

dancingmonkey.4902:

So it seems to me the entire complaint is that some cannot succeed after they took the ability away to completely ignore 1/4 of the skills of your enemies in the game.

Stability was OP. Those who cannot function without it, as 6 out of 8 professions have since release, are a shining example of how they did not develop the skill to play without it.

Haha like it!

Here’s what I’d say though. I think Stability is still OP when in small groups (maybe a max of 10 people). Pop stab in a group of 10 or so and you can ignore tons of CC. However, translate that to large groups and its just silly. You can’t move!

My suggestion would be to have a cooldown for stab strips (say 1 second). So, if you were to run into a large group and 15 statics drop on you in 1 second, you only get 1 stack of stab removed. If you are in a small group though and get 1 static on you, that removes 1 as well.

Its just not well proportioned atm IMO. I feel the game (and stab) is really quite balanced (although tbh I still enjoyed the game the way it was) with groups of 15 or under. Start blobbin though and the game just is meh.

EDIT: the post above me, I agree with totally. (didn’t see it till I already posted lol)

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That’s strange. If stab is nerfed to the point where it doesn’t matter, then why are you devoting 40% of your comp to it?
[/quote]

Okay, so I was being a bit dramatic. Stab is still necessary cause at least it allows you to approach a group in order to drop wells. Forget pushing through though or exchanging sides or IMO having fun :P.

Dano.5298:

Okay, so I was being a bit dramatic. Stab is still necessary cause at least it allows you to approach a group in order to drop wells. Forget pushing through though or exchanging sides or IMO having fun :P.
[/quote]

Well, I definitely believe there’s some tweaks that are needed. I don’t necessarily think we have to go back to the old way, but we’re going to see some drastic changes in gameplay soon enough that it’s still good to keep the discussion open. I do understand the arguments from both sides, and both definitely have good points.

Pre stability nerf, you’d run tanky necros since their sole purpose was corrupting stability with their well. Now, they run glassy as hell to do a bunch of damage since it’s not really necessary to target stability since it gets stripped by guardians and elementalists anyway. It’s resulted in a massive change of meta whereby it’s about kiting away from the enemy backline damage while having your own backline be in range to deal damage. The frontline is there to act as body blocker and not much else (the frontline DPS pales in comparison to the backline damage).

What do you guys think about that then?

When a stack of stab gets stripped, you gain a boon that lasts 1 second which prevents another stack from getting stripped (WvW only, IDC)

That would perhaps then generate some skilled play in that you won’t want to use your cc’s all at once and it would seem a fair balance between stab being OP (as duration) but you could also then run into blobs and maybe make some things happen still.

Would be pointless stand your ground e.g. Gives 5 stacks for 5seconds + boon duration maybe. So just reroll to old stab system and hope the Servers rum a bit smoother in 3 was fights without all the stabi calculation with stacks getting removed / increased than the new immune buff Must Pop up etc. very much extra server load for nearly the Same as just reroll to old stab

Olli.9028:

Would be pointless stand your ground e.g. Gives 5 stacks for 5seconds + boon duration maybe. So just reroll to old stab system and hope the Servers rum a bit smoother in 3 was fights without all the stabi calculation with stacks getting removed / increased than the new immune buff Must Pop up etc. very much extra server load for nearly the Same as just reroll to old stab

This mythology that servers have a problem with stability calculations is just that, an unfounded myth.

This is evidenced by the fact that the increased the conditions calculations to track partial ticks, as well as many many more conditions capable per target, and there were no server issues.

Many player i know complain a lot more about server laag After the stabi change. Doesn’t Know-how if it’s related or only coincidence

Maybe change playstyle. Enemy just outplay you if you just follow commander and try to run through cc. I wanna see day when all this melee train follow commander nonsense lead wipe every time.

Reverence.6915:

Pre stability nerf, you’d run tanky necros since their sole purpose was corrupting stability with their well. Now, they run glassy as hell to do a bunch of damage since it’s not really necessary to target stability since it gets stripped by guardians and elementalists anyway. It’s resulted in a massive change of meta whereby it’s about kiting away from the enemy backline damage while having your own backline be in range to deal damage. The frontline is there to act as body blocker and not much else (the frontline DPS pales in comparison to the backline damage).

That’s not totally true; zerker necros were always popular as backline as necro wells always did lots of damage, other people always had soft CCs and corruption was just something extra. Stab runs out and makes them great target for wells.

Here’s a snapshot of metabattle from October from last year. https://web.archive.org/web/20141027163619/http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Wells_Backline

Tanky necros were popular for the chilling darkness/plague combo, which was possible due to plague offering stability. Of course that died because chilling darkness was nerfed, but that’s another story.

Post stability nerf, it would seem necros were generally forced to go damage because Foot in the Grave became very weaker than it already was, defaulting it to death perception, which limited their options severely.

I feel like it the server lag thing really increased with the stab change, its probably more due to the play style the changes made. Everyone just sits back waiting to try to get a range bomb off and engagements last longer and often don’t have a conclusion. Plus, it really rewards blobbing.

Junkpile.7439:

Maybe change playstyle. Enemy just outplay you if you just follow commander and try to run through cc. I wanna see day when all this melee train follow commander nonsense lead wipe every time.

See thats my point though.. In order to change play-style, you end up just sitting back range bombing and CCing until one group shows they are a lot larger than yours. I Think thats a poor system, especially considering how imbalanced server population is.

Dano.5298:

I feel like it the server lag thing really increased with the stab change, its probably more due to the play style the changes made. Everyone just sits back waiting to try to get a range bomb off and engagements last longer and often don’t have a conclusion. Plus, it really rewards blobbing.

Junkpile.7439:

Maybe change playstyle. Enemy just outplay you if you just follow commander and try to run through cc. I wanna see day when all this melee train follow commander nonsense lead wipe every time.

See thats my point though.. In order to change play-style, you end up just sitting back range bombing and CCing until one group shows they are a lot larger than yours. I Think thats a poor system, especially considering how imbalanced server population is.

Reason why DH exist, so guardian can no longer go front line, every one uses range builds.
Working as intend no balance needed, everyone change do DH, statistics prove DH is a crowd pleaser.

I really hope so. I used to love playing my warr in wvw, but now I only play him when the guild needs another banner. IMO, the stab change ruined warrs for wvw. Even with 3 sources of stab, I run out in a couple seconds when facing a large group and end up being the first to die. Now I just embrace the meta and play my wells backline necro.

Aeolus.3615:

Reason why DH exist, so guardian can no longer go front line, every one uses range builds.
Working as intend no balance needed, everyone change do DH, statistics prove DH is a crowd pleaser.

Well, in one way its a good thing. If more zergs discovered that a heavy melee unit with Guardians doing judge straight over their AoE bomb is overwhelmingly strong and will obliterate their ranged, there would be far harder zergs to fight. Thank god most enemies stick to the mediocre pirate ship meta.

So let me ask ya’ll then,

Based off these responses, People explaining they can’t play their favorite class… Does this seem worth it? I’m glad your hundreds of CCs work in your blob of choice but a lot of people cannot play the game the want they want as a result.

Dano.5298:

So let me ask ya’ll then,

Based off these responses, People explaining they can’t play their favorite class… Does this seem worth it? I’m glad your hundreds of CCs work in your blob of choice but a lot of people cannot play the game the want they want as a result.

If people cannot play the way they want, simply because they use poor judgement, and run right into CC fields, that is an issue with their decisions. I feel for the most part stability is fine. Some skills that give stability could use an increase in stacks or duration, while others could use a decrease.

Not useing blocks and dodges to avoid CC fields and effects, instead of using stability as a crutch to ignore them entirely was a problem. Now I see alot of post complaining about CC stripping stability too quickly, when most of the skills that strip stab stacks can be dodged or blocked.

How exactly do you dodge or block static field or line of warding?

pejot.4806:

How exactly do you dodge or block static field or line of warding?

Usually you just go around it. It’s not that hard to figure out where enemy will drop their cc. One advanced wvw tactic is that your players don’t blob. This way enemy need to scatter their cc around and your stability works . If fight is in choke point you let mesmers go first, you can use stealth or you can build carts, ballistas, trebs and soften enemy little bit and so on. Sometimes enemy just have so big advantage that you need to try cap some other objective. Even ruscksack users need to accept it.

Junkpile.7439:

pejot.4806:

How exactly do you dodge or block static field or line of warding?

Usually you just go around it. It’s not that hard to figure out where enemy will drop their cc.

Yeah, it’s doable but more against pugs than organised groups which will not drop CCs miles in front of you, but on top of your group, combined with ranged bomb. But that’s not my point, I have adjusted to this new meta as much as I could. I still prefer the more dynamic fights pre stability nerf, but I really doubt ANet is ever going to roll back. My entire point is, if the person I was replying to thinks that most common CCs can be dodged or blocked, he is totally wrong. There are ways to deal with it (to a certain point when numbers are not balanced) but these are 2 things that actually DON’T work.

How can you dodge or block static field or other CC ? Cast time of static field is very low, and it can be casted right on your face, and you do not have time to avoid it. Some people clearly have no idea about game mechanics.

I agree, stab was too OP before, but right now it is too weak. I like the idea of adding CD between loss of stability stacks ( like 0.5-1s), so big zergs will not be able to remove all stability from small groups within 1 second by just spamming cc skills. Stability change buffed big zergs even more.

Next question is, how to discourage running only with big zergs/blobs? How to make them less effective? Do not get me wrong, i like running with big zergs also, but it is too mandatory to do anything. Stability would not be a problem then, because it is more balanced in a small group fights ( 10-30 vs 10-30).
Overall dmg across all professions after specialization patch is way too high, which buffed big zergs again. So first step would be to balance dmg or stats on pve gear ( you can see that they are increasing hp/armor of mobs in expansion, because dmg is way higher than before).
What about adding debuff, if there are more than 40-50 players around. This debuff would decrase dmg, armor, supply capacity, travel speed of each player.

I know with the new map, they are trying to split big zergs, but i still dont see it. You can have emergency wp in keeps, so travel time will not be an issue for big zergs.
What do you think about it?

Rev’s stab was meh, the timing on it is pretty lacking if your moving forward or god forbid you have swiftness up. If moving the majority lands behind the rev which may be fine for people following if rev is commanding but not so much for the Rev himself. If you have swiftness up theres a good chance you will outrun your own stability, making it a pointless utility for the Rev.

Lol @ being able to dodge CCs Cmon yo.

And kitten at that Rev stab.. I had high hopes…

Bump for the Devs to consider a stab change!

Internal cool down on stab strips please!

Dano.5298:

Bump for the Devs to consider a stab change!

Internal cool down on stab strips please!

You should go in PvE maps do that dodge training. If i don’t remember wrong there is one in queensdale.

Junkpile.7439:

Dano.5298:

Bump for the Devs to consider a stab change!

Internal cool down on stab strips please!

You should go in PvE maps do that dodge training. If i don’t remember wrong there is one in queensdale.

There is indeed a dodge training in Queensdale!

Not sure what that has to do with stability though!

What if classes that are chiefly frontline (guard/war) had access to much more personal stability? It should be high stacks but low duration so that people could still play around it, but the frontline would have a window to act before getting pinballed.

Sviel.7493:

What if classes that are chiefly frontline (guard/war) had access to much more personal stability? It should be high stacks but low duration so that people could still play around it, but the frontline would have a window to act before getting pinballed.

There is no such thing as a “frontline class”. It doesn’t seem reasonable to me to make stability changes to professions you perceive as front line professions, while ignoring all the other professions.

Stability buff change needs adjusted again. Some conditions are overdone: immob can last too much, burn it’s too powerful. Stealth is just as game breaking as ever, classes that rely on that need a complete overhaul (replaced with evades). Damage is too high overall. Healing power stat is too weak. Revenant can’t solve all these.

How exactly to change these, it’s up to testing results. The “pirate ship” meta is not fun; and I play as ranged. What currently is happening is just silly, please devs test playing as melee in WvW. Adjust values for WvW separately when that is needed (already it is in some cases) and based on test results, hard to guess how each plays out.

coglin.1867:

Sviel.7493:

What if classes that are chiefly frontline (guard/war) had access to much more personal stability? It should be high stacks but low duration so that people could still play around it, but the frontline would have a window to act before getting pinballed.

There is no such thing as a “frontline class”. It doesn’t seem reasonable to me to make stability changes to professions you perceive as front line professions, while ignoring all the other professions.

Classes with chiefly melee weapons like guard and war would be considered frontline. Or we could say that heavy armor classes are frontline. Basically, the people that have to dodge/wade through CC to be effective are frontline.

Obviously, it would be dumb to give such a skill to a thief or mesmer.

Now that stab has been nerfed, it’s time for static field and similar effects to get nerfed.

Sviel.7493:

Classes with chiefly melee weapons like guard and war would be considered frontline. Or we could say that heavy armor classes are frontline. Basically, the people that have to dodge/wade through CC to be effective are frontline.

You mean like warrior, with multiple 1200 range attack weapons? Or Guardians who have access to long bow coming to them, 1200 range staff attacks, 1200 range signets, and 1200 range teleports?

Sviel.7493:

Obviously, it would be dumb to give such a skill to a thief or mesmer.

How so?
I do not necessarily disagree, but you state it with implications. That suggest to me that you are expressing your subjective opinions as if they are objective facts. Perhaps you should be a little more open minded about professions, and not pigeon hole them so strictly.

I frontline regularly on engineer, mesmer, and ranger, both as a map pin and pin for a large WvW guild. I think players would be best served to step away from so called “meta” builds and think outside the box a little more, personally.

I would love for stab to have 1 sec (the 1st second) of it being not removable after being applied.

Many of you would think that 1 second is not much, but it is. Allows you to take an action, dodge or teleport out or further in to close gap, pop a block or at least do something, instead of doing nothing except being insta and perma stuck in CC. As an example of this, I will refer to the well of power in its “pre-stab-nerf” state. Many of you here who ran wellomancers back then know what that 1 and 1/4 secs of stab did for you and that it was not overpowering, but did work on many occasions and let you just barely scrape by. Now take that approach and impliment it across the board.

This approach would also not cause an gamewide imbalance in small scale situations because 1 sec on application with CDs will not make it OP and rest can be removed same as now. Only some skills would have to be individually adjusted, for example Engi FT would need to have 1 sec of the removable, instead of not removable stab since it reapplies it every sec. But skills such as shouts, stances, well of power, mantra of resolve, etc. basically any active stab application skill on cooldown could greatly benefit from this without grossly unbalancing the game.

Just wanted to throw in my support for a small ICD on stab. I think 1s is going to be far too long for the devs to consider. Keep in mind you can travel quite far over the course of 1 second, so being able to have only 1 stack of stab be removed when crossing 10+ lines of warding and 5 static fields doesn’t really make sense. You SHOULD be punished for doing this, but not to the point where it makes stab useless.

Somewhere around 0.25 – 0.5s would be reasonable. This shouldn’t have too great of an effect on roaming in WvW, but will place importance on boon-stripping again, as a large amount of stability, isn’t going to give enormous amounts of immunity, with 5 seconds only being around 2.5s worth of CC immunity. Throw in some proper rotations with your guardians and you can actually maintain enough CC immunity to bring back the melee play, without trivialising all CCs. at 25 stacks, assuming you have an infinite duration, you can essentially maintain full CC immunity for around 12.5s, which would be fairly well balanced considered it’s nigh impossible to get that much stability in any realistic comp.

This should also place more importance on intelligently using CCs and field placements. Currently you can just throw down 5 static fields all on the same spot and you have an instant 10-stack removal for an entire zerg. This only goes up with the more people you have. Introducing an ICD would ensure that careful placement of fields and correct timing for CCs (not just spamming them all at once) becomes an important part of WvW. This is pretty much the best middle-ground I can see.

I think this would be extremely healthy for WvW, as it still retains the stack-based functionality and ensures you can’t just stay permanently immune to stab, but it allows melee play to be an option again.

Def agree with everything said above ^

Would be SOOO awesome if ANET can acknowledge this and give it a try!

Push still important !

I personally never thought it was fun having to deal with the Unstoppable Force blob charge that you couldn’t seem to do anything about, other than split around. I always wanted to watch GvGs, but they always looked so boring.

Shouldn’t a group of players have to think twice before charging directly into another large group? Why should you be able to do that freely, again?

More importantly, what other group strategies have been tried so far? Or are people still trying to just force this style because it worked in the past?