Guild Wars 2

If you want to talk about “entitlement” or being “childish”, talk about the attitude that people who did not dedicate themselves to WvW have that this is perfectly okay since it’s “fair”. Excuse me, if you want fair, then every WvW player should be compensated with a legendary of their choice. My 1000 hours in WvW would have netted me 2 or 3. Do you think ANet is going to give me one? Nope. So do I think ANet should balance title progress for people who never played WvW? KITTEN NO. You cannot complain for a second that PvE rewards weren’t there and weren’t plentiful. WvW players lived in monetary squalor with nothing but the amount of kills we had to mark that we accomplished anything. Now with 5,000+ badges collecting dust and WvW title tracks that won’t “count” for any ATTAINABLE titles, what do I have to show for that 1000 hours other than the fact that I could pubstomp you if you came into a quarter mile of one of my towers?

Talk about fair? Childish? Compensation? Kitten, man. We are just asking for EVENT CREDIT. Like escorting a Dolyak for no karma and no silver and no experience. Give me just the title based off of what I’ve done and just have the passive bonuses catch up eventually. Give me the little medal at the top of my screen to say “Good job, champ!” It isn’t “getting new content immediately”, it’s getting a title that I and many WvW players like me EARNED with hard work. Instead, WvW players are left with empty bags, bank slots, infusion slots, and title tracks while players like you can waltz in with your legendaries like you’ve been here the whole time. Give me a kittening break.

If the new progression system takes kills/events to measure progress, its understandable that veteran players want their already earned achivements to count… at least a bit.

After all, the new passive skills shouldnt make your char op in WvW and if a part of the Com at release already has access to some of those skills, it cant do much harm, can it?

Alternative suggestion:
Tie in achievements as prequisites into new XP system/skills.

i.e. to push nearby dolyak speed by x% you would require:
WvW LvL 2
&
Rank 1 in Dolyak caravan achievement

I am still a bit curious why the devs cannot roll out a multiplier bonus (one off affect) that takes all pre-registered kills in WvW and multiplies them by the lowest common denominator. Lowest common would ensure no one gets over compensated and most of us just want to be compensated in some form. Do likewise for the many events that the system is already keeping track of and just multiply across the board and add it to our characters.

I don’t really see why this would be so hard, or even bad for that matter. These passive hardly sound game-breaking in any aspect and are more an avenue for good long term horizontal progression (option weighing and opportunity costs, assuming you can only equip X out of Y skills at any one time).

On the plus side, our badges are not being wasted or made obsolete as far as I can tell. Which is nice.

Will WvW finally get its own Ascended items? <(q.q<)

Slamz.5376:

Maladon.5760:

Wow, some arguments are just too mindnumbing to endure. For the record, I do WvW every single night and have done so for months and I’m against retroactive credit for titles/abilities. I think the idea is simply ludicrous and overtly greedy.

I think it’s about fairness.

You know how to recognize a dedicated WvW player?

He has no legendary weapon and no ascended gear. And his exotics are probably from the karma vendors in Orr.

I have tons of achievement credit for things like supply used, dolyaks escorted, etc, but while PvE players have reaped rewards, I’ve got nothing.

Seems unfair that now, after PvE players have gotten everything they wanted, they can join WvW and start on equal footing with me and my 2000 dolyak escorts and 15,000 supply used which will count for nothing.

I certainly can’t switch to PvE and suddenly be on equal footing with them.

+1.

Anet should at least be fair and take into account the hardcore WvW players achievement that they’ve achieved so far, convert them to % to the new measurement they will be using for the new stuff.

The selfishness and entitlement of some players is baffling…

MMOs don’t give out rewards retroactively.
This is not a new philosophy from Anet.

You did not earn WvW rewards because you participated up to this point.
You earned badges, points for your server, and points in an achievement track. Those are the rewards that were offered to get you into WvW, and those are the rewards you’re getting for it. If those rewards are not enough for you, I don’t understand why you’ve been playing up to this point at all.

No free rides.

EnRohbi.2187:

The selfishness and entitlement of some players is baffling…

MMOs don’t give out rewards retroactively.
This is not a new philosophy from Anet.

You did not earn WvW rewards because you participated up to this point.
You earned badges, points for your server, and points in an achievement track. Those are the rewards that were offered to get you into WvW, and those are the rewards you’re getting for it. If those rewards are not enough for you, I don’t understand why you’ve been playing up to this point at all.

No free rides.

You are beyond hope. I give up.

And one is not selfish if they are openly saying that they are okay with people having better ranks, titles, abilities, and gear than themselves and that they do not begrudge it to those people, so why would PvE players begrudge WvWers the things they’ve done in WvW? I don’t know about you all, but when I see someone with a legendary, I make sure to stake a flag in them. I’m sure titles would encourage the same sort of thing. I’d say bring it on.

EnRohbi.2187:

MMOs don’t give out rewards retroactively.
This is not a new philosophy from Anet.

No, what’s new is that PvE was offered rewards well in advance of them being made available for WvW.

Arenanet admitted that this was a mistake. Ascended gear should have been introduced simultaneously in PvE and WvW.

Correcting that mistake would mean giving us some credit for things accomplished since they introduced the mistake.

.

Basically Arenanet has been issuing paychecks to all active players since November but due to an oversight, WvW players were not getting any paychecks. The system is being corrected so that all players, including WvW players, will get their paychecks.

However, WvW players will not get paid for the missed backlog.

They didn’t right the wrong. They just corrected the oversight. We were hoping they might right the wrong and let us catch up somewhat on time missed.

Anet does not care about it’s WvW players… you know, the one’s who will be here, if catered too, for years to come…. /cough DAOC.

It’s not about PvE.

It’s about WvW Anet. Get it through the thick skull and stop kicking us in the nutz.

They said ascended gear will be available in WvW. I didn’t get any laurels for dailys/monthlys I completed before laurels were introduced either. Your arguments are flawed. Also getting karma for exotic armor is easy in WvW. You can also put it exactly the other way round: if I had known what would be added in the future, I would have started playing WvW instead of PvE earlier.
I’m laughing when I read some posts in here speaking of paychecks and rewards. Guess what, when I’m playing WvW I don’t even care, because it’s fun. As long as I gain enough coin to repair and upgrade I’m fine. I don’t need progression because I haven’t forgotten that this is a game. And ANet is putting a lot of work in WvW and there’s still a big WvW patch upcoming.

Iruwen.3164:

I don’t need progression

You do when the PvE players have been getting progression and it might be them you’re fighting for control of the supply camp. Their legendaries and ascended gear versus your Orr karma exotics and single-set power/tough/vit badge gear.

If progression had stopped at “exotic”, I’d be happy.

But it only stopped at exotic for WvW players. For PvE players, it kept on going and they are nicely ahead of us now.

I don’t like choosing between “fun” and “keeping up”.

Legendaries don’t have better stats and ascended stats advantage is still negligible, there’s nothing to keep up with. Also you can now complete your dailies (didn’t check the monthly yet) in WvW and get the same ascended items too.

Iruwen.3164:

Legendaries don’t have better stats and ascended stats advantage is still negligible, there’s nothing to keep up with. Also you can now complete your dailies (didn’t check the monthly yet) in WvW and get the same ascended items too.

Well, not right this moment, but legendaries will auto-upgrade to match the stats of the current highest level weapon in game. So effectively those with legendaries already have ascended weapons, they just haven’t gotten the stat update.

I do not care much about titles and achievements , I spend most of my time in WvWvW because I enjoy myself in there . That’s my personnel basic requirement when I play a game. I must kittening enjoy myself.

Also purchased game for WvW specifically , i dont think the token progression was set as intended as most of the invaders gear is way expensive and hard to come by via tokens ,the way it was implemented , have 7k kills and tons of other hooray achevements , and welcome a broader player base now , lately have drifted off to pve grinding for legendary which at times seem pointles ,in comparison to What WvW will become ,which in turn will be legendary soon , i understand the point being all the effort and time weve spent and nothing to show for it but being in the community with pvers they cant stand WvW , and desperatly need their tokens also, so round of applause for a step forward to bringing more to WvW , shouldve proably had dailys specicifically for WvW , as spvp , from the start ,and t4 t5 t6 mats that need be addressed for WvW also, daily containers, good day. ps and dont forget to include new weaponry upgrades with our progressions , sniper rifles , and w/e else we can come up with ,lol would love to have legendary type of weapon only available from smashing face in WvW

The one thing that makes me angry after reading this, and is a little off topic but still relevant, is how people just have no idea just how much of a gold sink WvW is. We are constantly buying siege. Rams are 6s a pop, trebuchets 24s. Want to make them superior, double that, add a skill point, and some mithril and elder wood. We constantly upgrade camps, towers, keeps. 1.5 G to get reinforced walls or a waypoint at a keep. Forget about SM. We do that every day because these structures are usually flipped by the enemy. Constant repair bills. PvEers don’t have any of this. They break their armor far less frequently than we do, and all of their activity generates gold.

Esoteric.5490:

If you want to talk about “entitlement” or being “childish”, talk about the attitude that people who did not dedicate themselves to WvW have that this is perfectly okay since it’s “fair”. Excuse me, if you want fair, then every WvW player should be compensated with a legendary of their choice. My 1000 hours in WvW would have netted me 2 or 3. Do you think ANet is going to give me one? Nope. So do I think ANet should balance title progress for people who never played WvW? KITTEN NO. You cannot complain for a second that PvE rewards weren’t there and weren’t plentiful. WvW players lived in monetary squalor with nothing but the amount of kills we had to mark that we accomplished anything. Now with 5,000+ badges collecting dust and WvW title tracks that won’t “count” for any ATTAINABLE titles, what do I have to show for that 1000 hours other than the fact that I could pubstomp you if you came into a quarter mile of one of my towers?

Talk about fair? Childish? Compensation? Kitten, man. We are just asking for EVENT CREDIT. Like escorting a Dolyak for no karma and no silver and no experience. Give me just the title based off of what I’ve done and just have the passive bonuses catch up eventually. Give me the little medal at the top of my screen to say “Good job, champ!” It isn’t “getting new content immediately”, it’s getting a title that I and many WvW players like me EARNED with hard work. Instead, WvW players are left with empty bags, bank slots, infusion slots, and title tracks while players like you can waltz in with your legendaries like you’ve been here the whole time. Give me a kittening break.

Amen.

MikeFerguson.8921:

We use existing mechanics like player kills and event completions to award world XP, but it is an entirely new system with new pieces of data associated to it so unfortunately there’s no way to award retroactive progress.

EDIT: I should have mentioned that once this system is live, everyone will have access to both this new system and the existing achievement titles.

We will be keeping all the existing WvW achievement tracks and titles associated with them, along with the progress you have already obtained on those achievements. None of that stuff is going away, so you can still keep working on those original achievement tracks and titles (which are intended to be extremely rare and obtained over years of play).

Sorry I didn’t make that clearer in my original post, we will have a blog post coming out before the patch explaining this new system in greater detail!

I realize that it is not possible to exactly recreate the XP from existing XP, however it seems like the metadata is there so that you can approximate it. For example, the achievements keep track of how many kills, keeps taken/defended, etc. This should give a good approximation of the original XP. Even if you estimate it on the low-end (ie 1 XP per keep taken), it would reward those who had given so much time and effort into WvW already and not a complete reset of XP. So, I would like Anet to reconsider using an low-end XP approximation migration method.

I’m really frustrated. I mean, that a hell? We can’t farm thousands gold from PvE and buy shiny Legendaries, we can’t stick in FOTM and grab whose pretty pink things, we spend our income for upgrades, repairs and siege. Heck, even in sPvP you can go read sPvP forum, make <i_pwn_u> character, faceroll few days and bam, titles, rewards right here.
And now, “sorry guys, you spend 8 months for nothing. But hey, this is counts for some great rare achievements, you just need to continue play for them, only 10+ years more and you get unique title!”
This is just spit in face of WvW community.

after reading and thinking more, Esoteric, i do agree with you. unsure how hard it would be from a technical standpoint, but like in Mike’s statement, he mentioned old ratings would remain, then the WvW dedicated should have something to show for it.

sure, this is just a game, but it’s the fact that people CAN put so much effort into it, look forward to logging on the game, to WvW and fight for their server, that make this game more beautiful than many other games i’ve played.

let’s see what can be done, ANet!

Given the amount of metrics currently tracking WvW progress, it should be a simple matter to let that feed into the new system.

For all those saying that the dedicated WvW players shouldn’t get anything for their past acheivements, I have a way to make you see the other side of things.

In the future, legendary weapons will be automatically upgraded to ascended status when ascended weapons are introduced. What if they didn’t? Why should they be? According to your arguments, it’s fair that everyone starts at the same level. Therefore when that update comes around, only legendary weapons created after that update should get asceneded stats. Think the PVE crowd would go for that? Think the Devs would allow that to happen? I don’t think so. Yet here are many of you saying it’s perfectly fine to not track and rewared the WvW players for the things they’ve done.

WvW players have created their “legendary” by playing WvW. Why shouldn’t they be rewarded for what they have accomplished in the past? If the new system awards 1xp point for each kill in WvW in future, why can’t the current people who have kills get rewareded that 1xp for them? From what I understand, there is going to be new tracks which is fine, it’s new and everyone should start at the same point then but if it tracks anything that has been tracked in the past, it should reward the people for what they have done.

You will be rewarded for your legendary when they are granted ascended stats, why shouldn’t the WvW crowd be rewarded for their "possessions’ they already have attained. It’s only fair.

Edragor.9164:

Alternative suggestion:
Tie in achievements as prequisites into new XP system/skills.

i.e. to push nearby dolyak speed by x% you would require:
WvW LvL 2
&
Rank 1 in Dolyak caravan achievement

I think this is a very reasonable compromise. I understand the argument in favor of encouraging more PvE players to join WvWvW. However, I also appreciate the argument that veteran WvWvW-ers should be compensated – somehow – for the last 7 months of pixelated blood, sweat, and tears in the Mist War.

With the quoted suggestion above, it becomes a win-win. PvE players new to WvWvW aren’t discouraged by facing veteran WvWvW-ers who are already far ahead of them in the progression ladder, having already unlocked many of the new abilities/skills/titles. Any retroactive advantage at all – no matter how small – will be perceived as “unfair” and will serve to drive PvE-ers away, rather than towards, WvWvW. For this reason, the “World XP” progression ladder has to start at zero.

Then, as players earn “World XP”, they become eligible for the abilities and titles that will come with the new progression ladder. By tying this progression to a two-part pre-requisite (amount of “World XP” earned AND a rank in a pre-existing achievement title), the veteran WvWvW-ers will be retroactively rewarded for their time and effort by having 1/2 of the pre-requisites already completed.

Since everyone will have zero “World XP” when the patch launches, no one will have unlocked abilities/skills/titles yet; PvE-ers are happy. Then, in the ensuing days, weeks, or months (however long it takes to earn enough “World XP”), the veteran WvWvW-ers will – progressively – unlock these abilities/skills/titles a bit faster than those who only recently joined WvWvW.

There’s no single solution that will be deemed “fair” or “balanced” to all concerned. However, Edragor’s suggestion comes the closest I’ve read so far to being a workable compromise that would satisfy the needs of both camps.

Besides, WvWvW vets really have nothing to worry about. We may not have the shinies to show for our 7 months of hard work, but we have the experience and the skills. You just need to look at it from a different perspective:

The walking loot bags are coming to WvWvW on March 26th, my friends

Some people is so disgusting…

Anet did a great job with this, and i’m 100% that has been done with the best of the intentions, introducing new people on wvw, kudos for that !

But Esoteric.5490 is completly right, and i sense a lot of prejudice in this post,

1) I don’t like the fact the guy is republican,
2) I don’t like his nickname,
3) I hate black gate,
4) I hate commanders,

Despite all the prejudice, (in fact all the things above are not true, they were just examples) i can see clearly his point and it’s not disgusting at all,

What’s the difference between a cosmetic title and a cosmetic legendary weapon?

Don’t be hypocrites…

How much did you work to get it? How would you feel if somebody tell you “your legendary weapon will be removed”

I got 15000 kills in WvW and i don’t give a kitten, (i’m a well rounded player, from spvp to pve and wvw),

I’m working for my ransacker title at the moment, and i can assure i would put a scream on the sky if suddenly my title is removed,

The MOST annoying thing is that the new ranks and achievements would appear to be CHARACTER bound. Talk about forced pigeonholing….

It’s quite clear ANet are completely clueless about wvw and it’s treated with about the same respect as a piece okitten on your shoe.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Edragor.9164:

Alternative suggestion:
Tie in achievements as prequisites into new XP system/skills.

i.e. to push nearby dolyak speed by x% you would require:
WvW LvL 2
&
Rank 1 in Dolyak caravan achievement

I think this is a very reasonable compromise. I understand the argument in favor of encouraging more PvE players to join WvWvW. However, I also appreciate the argument that veteran WvWvW-ers should be compensated – somehow – for the last 7 months of pixelated blood, sweat, and tears in the Mist War.

With the quoted suggestion above, it becomes a win-win…

Actually, thinking about all these new progression systems, too many different tokens and stat-increase via Ascended Gear… i fear AN is (unintentionally I guess/hope…) splitting its Community and abandoning its manifesto.

Thinking about all the legendary analogies and pve comparisions and the need to have char-bound as well as account-bound progression…

Best/Most Flexible solution would be tying more existing systems/currencies together…

Why not use:
Skill points
…to buy WvW skills and thus have them char-bound/role-specific. The higher the costs the more unique/char-specific some ability/skill/title would become.

&

WvW Achievements
…to work as account-specific prequisites. Using not only its current rank but also its current progress and category as a value. (..to gain doliak-specific abilities u should have to defend doliaks first and not zerg SM for those (and vice versa))

Depending on the nature of the skill/title or the restrictions you want to put on it, you could either weight more account- or char-specific elements.

i.e.
Commander Book
Could cost 100 skill points, but would only need minimum on WvW total achievements points (i.e. defending/capping SM or just only towers shouldnt matter that much).
This would retain it charbound & exclusive nature (due to high skillpoint cost), but easy enough to achieve via some WvW.

Title: Mighty Dolyiak Master
After doing a million doliak runs you would like to show off on the battlefield via…
- an aura around your char
- unique dolyiak pet/summon
or
- emote, which lets u make the “Doliak mateing sound” … ;D
and the current title system isnt very impressive…

Therefore it should only cost 1 skill point to gain this on a char after achieving the high account WvW prequisite(s).
Because haveing the achievement performed should be enough and twinking shouldnt be punished while working for things like these.

PvE players got massive amounts of shinies for the last 7 months. Most of them will come into WvW with quite a large gold (buying power) and equipment advantage. WvW focused players basically got slapped in the face with a rotten slimy dead fish in terms of progression, rewards, gear, costs, new content, gold, & balancing.

Whether people admitit publicly or not, WvW players will naturally want to gerti that their loyalty to the neglected game mode has some form of quid pro quo above zero. That is just human nature, and making WvW players unhappy with WvW should also be a consideration

Bunter.3795:

For all those saying that the dedicated WvW players shouldn’t get anything for their past acheivements, I have a way to make you see the other side of things.

In the future, legendary weapons will be automatically upgraded to ascended status when ascended weapons are introduced. What if they didn’t? Why should they be? According to your arguments, it’s fair that everyone starts at the same level. Therefore when that update comes around, only legendary weapons created after that update should get asceneded stats. Think the PVE crowd would go for that? Think the Devs would allow that to happen? I don’t think so. Yet here are many of you saying it’s perfectly fine to not track and rewared the WvW players for the things they’ve done.

WvW players have created their “legendary” by playing WvW. Why shouldn’t they be rewarded for what they have accomplished in the past? If the new system awards 1xp point for each kill in WvW in future, why can’t the current people who have kills get rewareded that 1xp for them? From what I understand, there is going to be new tracks which is fine, it’s new and everyone should start at the same point then but if it tracks anything that has been tracked in the past, it should reward the people for what they have done.

You will be rewarded for your legendary when they are granted ascended stats, why shouldn’t the WvW crowd be rewarded for their "possessions’ they already have attained. It’s only fair.

Legendary weapons are being upgraded to ascended stats because Legendary Weapons with Exotic stats will no longer exist. It is changing an item already in the game, not adding new items. And it will update with players who already have the item much like Skill balances update players who’ve already unlocked the skills effected.

WvW achievement tracks are not being removed. The game mode is simply having things added.
You’re not losing any progress you’ve made. But you’re also not getting a free ride towards new things that you have not made any progress towards.

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunter.3795:

For all those saying that the dedicated WvW players shouldn’t get anything for their past acheivements, I have a way to make you see the other side of things.

In the future, legendary weapons will be automatically upgraded to ascended status when ascended weapons are introduced. What if they didn’t? Why should they be? According to your arguments, it’s fair that everyone starts at the same level. Therefore when that update comes around, only legendary weapons created after that update should get asceneded stats. Think the PVE crowd would go for that? Think the Devs would allow that to happen? I don’t think so. Yet here are many of you saying it’s perfectly fine to not track and rewared the WvW players for the things they’ve done.

WvW players have created their “legendary” by playing WvW. Why shouldn’t they be rewarded for what they have accomplished in the past? If the new system awards 1xp point for each kill in WvW in future, why can’t the current people who have kills get rewareded that 1xp for them? From what I understand, there is going to be new tracks which is fine, it’s new and everyone should start at the same point then but if it tracks anything that has been tracked in the past, it should reward the people for what they have done.

You will be rewarded for your legendary when they are granted ascended stats, why shouldn’t the WvW crowd be rewarded for their "possessions’ they already have attained. It’s only fair.

Legendary weapons are being upgraded to ascended stats because Legendary Weapons with Exotic stats will no longer exist. It is changing an item already in the game, not adding new items. And it will update with players who already have the item much like Skill balances update players who’ve already unlocked the skills effected.

WvW achievement tracks are not being removed. The game mode is simply having things added.
You’re not losing any progress you’ve made. But you’re also not getting a free ride towards new things that you have not made any progress towards.

How the heck is it a ‘free ride’ if we’ve worked for it over 1500 hours for some people, hundreds of gold and boatload of frustration over Anet for not giving a rat’s arze about WvW for 7 months?

I think I have spent nearly 1.5k gold, over 1.5k hours of play time and millions of karma spent in WvW. Yes I actually did spend that much. What if I spent all that in PvE? I would have 5 legendaries by now lol… and asking anet for us to be awarded for that is a ‘free ride’? what the kitten?

They should never have inferred that WvW was a place you could spend all your time in and acquire the best items for WvW.

kuora.5402:

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunter.3795:

For all those saying that the dedicated WvW players shouldn’t get anything for their past acheivements, I have a way to make you see the other side of things.

In the future, legendary weapons will be automatically upgraded to ascended status when ascended weapons are introduced. What if they didn’t? Why should they be? According to your arguments, it’s fair that everyone starts at the same level. Therefore when that update comes around, only legendary weapons created after that update should get asceneded stats. Think the PVE crowd would go for that? Think the Devs would allow that to happen? I don’t think so. Yet here are many of you saying it’s perfectly fine to not track and rewared the WvW players for the things they’ve done.

WvW players have created their “legendary” by playing WvW. Why shouldn’t they be rewarded for what they have accomplished in the past? If the new system awards 1xp point for each kill in WvW in future, why can’t the current people who have kills get rewareded that 1xp for them? From what I understand, there is going to be new tracks which is fine, it’s new and everyone should start at the same point then but if it tracks anything that has been tracked in the past, it should reward the people for what they have done.

You will be rewarded for your legendary when they are granted ascended stats, why shouldn’t the WvW crowd be rewarded for their "possessions’ they already have attained. It’s only fair.

Legendary weapons are being upgraded to ascended stats because Legendary Weapons with Exotic stats will no longer exist. It is changing an item already in the game, not adding new items. And it will update with players who already have the item much like Skill balances update players who’ve already unlocked the skills effected.

WvW achievement tracks are not being removed. The game mode is simply having things added.
You’re not losing any progress you’ve made. But you’re also not getting a free ride towards new things that you have not made any progress towards.

How the heck is it a ‘free ride’ if we’ve worked for it over 1500 hours for some people, hundreds of gold and boatload of frustration over Anet for not giving a rat’s arze about WvW for 7 months?

I think I have spent nearly 1.5k gold, over 1.5k hours of play time and millions of karma spent in WvW. Yes I actually did spend that much. What if I spent all that in PvE? I would have 5 legendaries by now lol… and asking anet for us to be awarded for that is a ‘free ride’? what the kitten?

1500 gold?
You MIGHT have two legendaries.

The fact is,
You spent all that time and money in WvW for the promise of nothing except enjoyment, badges and extremely arduous title tracks.
You dedicated that time for the rewards that were on the table at the time, and that’s what you’ll receive.

I just want the bad guys to appear on my screen before I’m dead, and…get a precursor drop before they turn off the servers. I’m not holding my breath for either, but I HOPE one of those will be this month. (don’t care which one at this point either)

MikeFerguson.8921:

We use existing mechanics like player kills and event completions to award world XP, but it is an entirely new system with new pieces of data associated to it so unfortunately there’s no way to award retroactive progress.

EDIT: I should have mentioned that once this system is live, everyone will have access to both this new system and the existing achievement titles.

We will be keeping all the existing WvW achievement tracks and titles associated with them, along with the progress you have already obtained on those achievements. None of that stuff is going away, so you can still keep working on those original achievement tracks and titles (which are intended to be extremely rare and obtained over years of play).

Sorry I didn’t make that clearer in my original post, we will have a blog post coming out before the patch explaining this new system in greater detail!

Years? I think you mean decades. Or maybe you guys at Anet just fail to calculate 1+1=2. If this is the case, go and put “500000*3 minutes in years” to Wolframalpha, and you’ll see why SM defender for example, is a joke.
There, I did it for you:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=500000*3+minutes+in+years
It would take 2.8 years if you would do nothing but defend SM.

Ok. But what if you have to sleep and eat? Lets assume you can dedicate only 1/3th of your live for SM defence (half of the time you aren’t sleeping)
Then it takes 3 times longer, that is 8.5 years.

Ok. But what if SM isn’t constantly under siege? Then there are no enemies to rebel! Let’s assume it’s under siege 33% of time. Then the title would take 26 years. Decades like I said.

Anyway, seems that this new “update” doesn’t bring anything truly new. Just more progress bars for the barely-sentient to fill. Good thing Arma3 is soon out.

1500 gold?
You MIGHT have two legendaries.

He said he used 1500gold in WvW. That means he could have bought two legendaries already by just using that gold in pve instead. If he had spent his WvW time in PvE, he would have made money worth of 3 addional legendaries.

You dedicated all your time/gold into a legendary?
…stats get upped to Ascended Level retroactivly

You dedicated all your time into a fractals?
…you get well equipped for WvW without haveing to step onto battlefield. No need to farm badges, at all… (and gold income has been better,too)

You dedicated all your time/gold into small Guild?
…you have to start from scratch in a “new system” and farm/grind before your even allowed to farm the new rewards and try new meta/game-mechanics at all.
(Why not have every T0/T1 mission type be free or fast accessible for the smaller guilds???)

You dedicated all your time/gold into WvW already doing progress on achievements?
…you have to start from scratch in a “new system”.

For most dedicated WvWer its about deeper and enhanced meta, personal/guild and server ranking (…meaning ladders not ranks!). NOT about power-progression or some nice-to-have abilities grind.
Life-time achievements aka ranks are already IG, but WvWers would like them to be more meaningful in a OPTICAL SENSE…after all they are some grind to achieve, but not much to “show off”.
Some faster achievable sub-ranks/titles would surely be appreciated, too.

These new abilities are/should not be power-creeps but meta-enhancements by opening specific roles. And therefore should work kinda like traits or skill points, imho.
First ones easy/fast to achieve, not “set into stone”, but defining your role/preferred tasks in WvW.

BUT even those are for ME with mostly interest in competetive play…uninteressting/not needed.

PvPers in sPVP and WvW WANT rankings…NOT (only) RANKS!
Who (guild/player/server) in the last 15minutes…:
- did most capping?
- healed most players?
- How many deaths/kills happened?
…etc.etc.

…and NOT some one-time grinds (even if its a pve environment…its about pvp aka competition)…
…or does anyone know a sport where the winpoints (goals in soccer i.e.) accumulate over time…?

2 points.

1) WvW players have seen every patch so far be filled with PvE or sPvP and nothing of any substance for WvW. When we get a patch that finally nods it’s head to our game mode, it would be better if it was a patch designed to make us happier, not a patch designed to make PvE-ers happier if they decide to try a little more WvW.

2) WvW has far too much grind already, and nearly all of it has to be done in the PvE game mode unless you have zero other commitments in real life.

Instead new WvW content should be partly about equipping WvW’ers with equal to PvE gear (or completely replacing pve gear with WvW sets) without them being forced to do PvE, and adding new prestige advancement for status, not yet more power grinds. The rest of WvW content should be about adding more goals and tactics, new layers of strategy, new map maybe etc.

Finally all the WvW JP puzzles should be removed entirely as a seperate PvP super-mario subgame on entirely seperated map servers that has zero impact on WvW maps / queues, and probably doesn’t reward anything that relates to power/gear in WvW.

They finally increased bag drops in WvW, that is a plus. I still have to farm PvE so I can upgrade keeps/towers, so the increase wasn’t enough in terms of earning gold so that I do not have to leave WvW.

I don’t know why every mode of game play I choose, in regards to PvP from any game I’ve played has always been the red headed step child, that gets the crumbs.

Heh, while I appreciate the developers FINALLY fixing their game…I refuse to praise them for fixing something that should have been fixed months ago…..

“We use existing mechanics like player kills and event completions to award world XP, but it is an entirely new system with new pieces of data associated to it so unfortunately there’s no way to award retroactive progress”

Ok…Like what?

Give me the data i’ll give you the conversion….don’t worry…i’ll wait….i’ll even do it for free lol

Do I care that much about getting the buffs and titles, naw I guess not. Like someone else said tho, it does irk me that even though you are basing these off of PRE-EXISTING metrics…you feel that it is completely ok for someone who has played WvW for 6+ months, countless gold and time into it, to be on the same level has all the new PvE players that are going to flood WvW due to the new progression that spent their time grabbing legendaries and farming gold…yep..makes sense…not…

The thing that irks me more about the responses is the bullkitten they try to say …"Well even though it’s based off of existing metrics some mysterious underlying data has changed so we just can’t do it. K thnx BAI!

You could have at least posted something like,

We could have done it, however it would take the developers a too much time to do the conversion and their time is better spent on fixing other issues with WvW…that I could live with…. lol…not some phony data baloney

Maladon.5760:

Why on earth would they release new content and allow you to already have achieved it?

It’s not new content.

It’s rewards and titles for EXISTING CONTENT that should have been there originally.

Gear, loot, shineys, and titles are not content. They are the result of content that theoretically stand in parallel with “player experience” and “fun”.

Gamadorn.2659:

“We use existing mechanics like player kills and event completions to award world XP, but it is an entirely new system with new pieces of data associated to it so unfortunately there’s no way to award retroactive progress”

Ok…Like what?

Give me the data i’ll give you the conversion….don’t worry…i’ll wait….i’ll even do it for free lol

It is still possible that by “New pieces of data” they mean it’s based off something other than just how many kills/escorts/defends/etc. that you’ve done.

If the World XP is based off, say, a combination of kills and how many people were attacking the enemy, then Anet just doesn’t have the data recorded to make the calculations retroactively and thus, would make it impossible for you to do so as well.

Edragor.9164:

---

PvPers in sPVP and WvW WANT rankings…NOT (only) RANKS!
Who (guild/player/server) in the last 15minutes…:
- did most capping?
- healed most players?
- How many deaths/kills happened?
…etc.etc.

Ranking won’t happen. ANet is developing GW2 with a heavy carebear philosophy. You can see this with the way they hide player names first and foremost. They don’t want anything that can lead to a personal competitive environment where players compete for kills, IRS, or other active achievements in WvW directly with other players.

In other words they’re trying to abstract the opponent “player versus player” aspect in WvW. Mostly this is to get more of the WoW PvE crowd in WvW, the same reason as why map completion requires WvW.

Pretty lame, but it is what it is.

I also have been WvWing since release. And I don’t want retroactive rewards. I would hate it.

Why would I want to instant receive rewards? The reason why I’m playing a MMO and not a FPS is because of progression.

No points in adding new content, and giving it right away to veteran. Doesn’t make sense for me. I have more fun working for something, then receiving it.

And about PvE coming in WvW and being equal as us. So what? If I go PvE, In 1 weeks I can have the same gear then them. If they come to WvW, they will have to play a lot to follow me.

I don’t see the issue there?

No PvE will be on the same foot as a veteran WvWer. You can’t buy skills.

I welcome this answer, and I, like other poster said, also think it’s childing to want retroacting reward. Most MMO don’t work like that. If they add more progression, it’s not to instant give it to half the players.

And you’ll still keep your shiny title. I don’t need no title for people to reconize me.

If the new rewards include ascended gear, I guarantee that half of the “we don’t care” group would suddenly find themselves caring about retroactive points.

@EasyModeX

Nop.

EasymodeX.4062:

If the new rewards include ascended gear, I guarantee that half of the “we don’t care” group would suddenly find themselves caring about retroactive points.

They definitely would.

And some people assume that their progress to date would already “finish” the progression system. DAOC had people with millions of kills over years of play and they were STILL gaining ranks. The sky is the limit regarding cute little passive bonuses, active abilities, or titles. It is awfully presumptuous to assume that you’d get ALL of the new progressions “content” from your prior contributions to WvW. I’m just saying we should get credit.

Making WvW progress character based is I think the biggest problem, however it gives ANet a great excuse to:

A) Pigeonhole players into playing a single character
B) Increase the grind tenfold for anyone with alts to “maintain interest”
C) Not give WvW players credit for jack kitten because “character bound” means “their system can’t calculate it” because they CHOOSE not to calculate it. Hell, even if the XP was dynamic, you could give people credit for the least common denominator, but NO, it has the be character bound just as an excuse to not “count” their account based title progress.

To be fair, DAOC had ranks based on character, which is fine, but in order for that to be okay, you need to be able to SEE your enemy’s name in WvW, not “Invader #16843”. The only purpose of character based ranks is for renown and name recognition. If people don’t even know who you are from the other team, wtf is the point of it being character bound?

They have said themselves that this was meant to be included at release, but they didn’t get around to it because, let’s be honest, the game was released in Beta-state. Why would they not give us credit for all the things they were counting all along? However, I digress, the thought that people can say that 6 months of gameplay not counting is, “okay,” is just mind boggling. They counted the stats all along. Give us the kittening credit.

WvW right now seems to linear in terms of how you achieve a server victory. The current PPT for a supply camp should be increased, so should getting dolyaks safely into their respective keep/tower.

Right now, in the higher tiers, its so very much zerg vs zerg and trying to see who can sneaky take a keep with golems. Things need to be more dynamic.

EasymodeX.4062:

If the new rewards include ascended gear, I guarantee that half of the “we don’t care” group would suddenly find themselves caring about retroactive points.

If the new rewards structure still doesn’t include ways for WvW players to get ascended gear then A-net have zero respect for their WvW customers.

I think that ascended gear is too crappy w3 reward. We deserve new tier.

Quenta.2978:

WvW right now seems to linear in terms of how you achieve a server victory. The current PPT for a supply camp should be increased, so should getting dolyaks safely into their respective keep/tower.

Right now, in the higher tiers, its so very much zerg vs zerg and trying to see who can sneaky take a keep with golems. Things need to be more dynamic.

Not to disagree with you, but from personal experience, there is a lot of dynamic gameplay that is either limited by culling, or not fully explored, especially when it is applied to combat and mobility. It is annoying that multiple golems often have to be used to take a fortified location with speed, however, we don’t want upgrades to be something that are not worthwhile. The defenders should have the advantage.

EasymodeX.4062:

Edragor.9164:

---

PvPers in sPVP and WvW WANT rankings/ratings…NOT (only) RANKS!

Ranking won’t happen. ANet is developing GW2 with a heavy carebear philosophy. You can see this with the way they hide player names first and foremost. They don’t want anything that can lead to a personal competitive environment where players compete for kills, IRS, or other active achievements in WvW directly with other players.

In other words they’re trying to abstract the opponent “player versus player” aspect in WvW. Mostly this is to get more of the WoW PvE crowd in WvW, the same reason as why map completion requires WvW.

Pretty lame, but it is what it is.

But if someone is really into soccer, he wants to know about…:
- yellow & red cards (who/when/why)
- number of goals & number of goal opportunities
- which player switched in/out
etc. etc…
…the more your interessted in the competetive aspect of any game the more infos / data you would like to get beyond the mere win:loss ratio.

Sure, you shouldnt “harrass” a GW2 / pvp newbie with all those stuff …but Dropdown menues are no witchcraft…
———————
BUT in “State of the Game” they mentioned Ladder – System which should be ready very soon for spvp as well as WvW(?) & PvE(?)…talking about that they would share the same system…

Sounded like their on the right track sPvP wise (soonish…^^) and concentrating on stuff the Com wishes for…
…but was kinda wondering what they meant for WvW?
Did they actually talk about ratings of some sort for guilds/players/servers?
…and if yes, why no infos /preview or else on these things?

Edragor.9164:

But if someone is really into soccer, he wants to know about…:

You must be the first person “really into” who says “soccer” instead of football,

WvW is competitive, it’s not a personal competition is a group competition and you feel really involved in your server war,

Victory.2879:

WvW players have created their “legendary” by playing WvW. Why shouldn’t they be rewarded for what they have accomplished in the past?

You will be rewarded for your legendary when they are granted ascended stats, why shouldn’t the WvW crowd be rewarded for their "possessions’ they already have attained. It’s only fair.

Your “legendary” are the titles that are already in place in WvW, those will stay and will be your legacy for being a WvW play through and through. Think of the new ranks system added as the “ascended” class for WvW and now everyone has to start from square one to obtain them.

And as an aside, I think that any legendary that was/is made before ascended weapons are introduced should not be automatically upgraded to ascended and that they should have to do a quest line to have them infused, or some kitten like that, to bring them up to ascended stat (or just transmute them to an ascended weapon). I would call that the price paid for getting PvE end game so quickly. Things change and you have to adapt and deal with previous choices.

This whole thread reminds me of the prodigal son story where one guy goes off and just screws around while the other stays home and works diligently and the screw off comes home and the hard working son gets kitten because the screw off son gets a party and he never got a party even though he’s worked hard all his life.