Guild Wars 2

This is probably seen as a minor issue, but I still find it somewhat annoying.

As I’m sure most people know, elementalists are the only profession that get to decide, without fail, if their enemies will get WXP for killing them. This is because the WXP counter resets on rally, and Vapor Form counts as a rally. Now, considering that WXP comes with rather significant benefits, is it really fair that a single profession gets complete control of denying it, over all the others? (Admittedly, the warrior gets some amount of control as well, with Vengeance, but that ability is not instantly available upon being downed, unlike Vapor Form).

Is this a bug, is it intentional? Is there a specific reason the WXP counter doesn’t reset on death, instead of on rally?

Lemme see now, shall I use vapour form or shall I lie here and let this guy kill me?

He looks like a nice sort of guy… no, I think I’ll just lay here and die.

Yes, of course, because Mist Form has an infinite range and restored the elementalist to a living state with full health, right?

It’s fairly short ranged and when they come out of it they’re still downed. Finish the job, it’s that simple. In the rare cases when you choose to down them right outside a gate and they get inside, well, the trick is to down them further from the gate or tear the gate down and rip them a new one when you get inside. I’ve had my share of elementalists zip through a gate on my and I’ve yet to notice a tear forming. They do what they do, learn to counter.

VOLKON.1290:

Yes, of course, because Mist Form has an infinite range and restored the elementalist to a living state with full health, right?

It’s fairly short ranged and when they come out of it they’re still downed. Finish the job, it’s that simple. In the rare cases when you choose to down them right outside a gate and they get inside, well, the trick is to down them further from the gate or tear the gate down and rip them a new one when you get inside. I’ve had my share of elementalists zip through a gate on my and I’ve yet to notice a tear forming. They do what they do, learn to counter.

Please, read the post before you reply. I’m not complaining about how to “counter” Vapor Form, because there is no counter to it in this context. This is about WXP, not how to kill a downed elementalist.

Reading comprehension is evidently not a strong point for some…

What the OP is saying is when you down an elementalist, and they use their mist form downed ability, even if you stomp them a few seconds later, you get 0 Wxp.

I have not noticed this myself, but I don’t really pay attention to Wxp in most fights. It sounds like it could be a general bug though, that Wxp is reset on rally, instead of resetting on defeat. It should only reset once Wxp has been awarded, which is when the player dies.

I dont thnk mist is op at all but i will say this its annoying when you kill them in front of a tower and mist inside lmao

Ok, here is the TL;DR :

Ele mist form use = 0 WXP

You’re welcome!

TBH the whole idea of people denying stomps when they have absolutely no chance of rallying annoys me.

Sure, if you’re in a group fight and you go down then do everything you can to stay alive, but if you are solo roaming around, you get killed, just be a man and let yourself be stomped because you’re just wasting your time and theirs by delaying the inevitable.

If ever people do do that to me in a 1v1 I usually let them res back up to nearly full and just keep tagging them till they realise I am not going to let them res or kill them. Then they know whakittens like to have your time wasted for no good reason.

But I digress…. Yeah Mistform shouldnt count at rallying and they shouldnt be able to go into towers in mistform either. Just means ele next to a tower is very almost immortal.

It sounds like a bug. If you usually get WXP for stomping someone, and you don’t get it for stomping an Ele that just vape formed, then it sounds like a bug.

But go ahead and blame Ele’s for “deciding” to deny you WXP.

Never noticed this. I always thought WXP resets when you die, not go down. Are you sure you’re not stomping the same bad ele over and over again?

LOL! I like the part of the argument where Ele’s get to “decide”. Every Ele will use Vapor Form upon being downed, even if death is guaranteed. It’s just part of making things a little more annoying for your opponent.

That said, yeah this is a bug and should be fixed ASAP.

ArkAngel.7940:

Never noticed this. I always thought WXP resets when you die, not go down. Are you sure you’re not stomping the same bad ele over and over again?

That’s what I’m thinking… I could be wrong and will need to verify this, but I swear I’ve received wxp from elementalists and others. I can’t say for sure, though.

I’ve also received 0 wxp from every other profession.

Amazing of how many people fail at reading and compehension even after op takes the time to reiterate what he is referring to.

To the op I would suggest to send this to the bug section if what you stated is true.

Jeda.5209:

Amazing of how many people fail at reading and compehension even after op takes the time to reiterate what he is referring to.

To the op I would suggest to send this to the bug section if what you stated is true.

Reading is for the timid. Real forum warriors jump in blindly.

Should be easy to test, if anyone has a friend on another server that you can coordinate with. Enter WvW together for the first time on some day (to ensure the Ele is worth 60 WXP), find a nice quiet corner, down the Ele, Vapor then spike. I would also test spiking vs. killing with just damage, to be sure either death method has the same result. Also, and most importantly, get it on FRAPs and email it to Anet.

in the next patch is already planned a new elite skill for Elementalist: “kill yourself”, effects, other than killing the Elementalist, is to give AoE badges to surrounding foes.

Yet another proof that mistform is totally OP in WvW and should be greatly nerfed. That and stealth are the two most annoying OP things right now. The CD should be increased by a lot, the movement speed / distance travelled reduced, or make it impossible to enter keep portals. Really, a god mode skill in downed state? And now it resets WxP too?

if this is the case, it sounds like a bug. fix asap.

The only thing this proves is that elementalists need stealth.

VOLKON.1290:

Jeda.5209:

Amazing of how many people fail at reading and compehension even after op takes the time to reiterate what he is referring to.

To the op I would suggest to send this to the bug section if what you stated is true.

Reading is for the timid. Real forum warriors jump in blindly.

Yea, like I always say – it’s not my fault you didn’t write what I read.

Huh, I will have to check this next time I kill an elementalist.

Oh I never noticed that Eles give 0 Wexp after using Vapor Form. Sounds like something Anet didn’t take into consideration when implementing Wexp. Best post something on the bug forum too.

I think it’s a deliberate choice by Anet to make Eles the most teeth-grindingly annoying class to kill.

Mattargul.9235:

Ok, here is the TL;DR :

Ele mist form use = 0 WXP

You’re welcome!

Yeah, this seems like an oversight. I hope they change that.

Jamais vu.5284:

I think it’s a deliberate choice by Anet to make Eles the most teeth-grindingly annoying class to kill.

Right behind the thief , bunker guardians, mesmers, and mobility lemongrass warriors of course Ele’s are easy pickins, squishy squishy.

Now it’s mentioned I have been getting no WXP from Vengeanced warriors, not that warriors get to use this much! Hadn’t thought about this until now…

Stormleaf.1769:

WXP comes with rather significant benefits

like what?

i think the issue with the OP’s post is that most people didn’t know about the

Mist Form —> 0 WXP

bug which led to miscommunication.

Also, mist form through the gate? Wth with that? Terrible mistake on the devs part.

Boon duration not nerfed yet making eles and guards OP in Wvw. Why hasn’t this been nerfed in wvw?

The battery classes.. face roll ftw!

Okay, so I guess I was wrong about this being common knowledge. Let’s clear a few things up for people who are still confused.

Currently, the (0-60) WXP you get for defeating a player will reset to 0 whenever a player rallies, not when they die. This applies to all classes. Any player that has stayed alive long enough to be worth WXP will immediately be worth 0 upon rallying from any source, for any reason. It’s easily testable (go find and down any profession, let them rally, then down and kill them; they’ll give you zero WXP), and it strikes me as a design choice on ArenaNet’s part, rather than a bug.

The issue is that elementalists, and only elementalists, have an instantly-available downed ability (Vapor Form) that briefly rallies them, thus negating their WXP reward. There is NO counter to this once an elementalist is downed, meaning that they are the only class that never has to give their opponents WXP when defeated.

This thread is not an argument about the balance of elementalists in actual combat. It’s an argument about elementalists not needing to provide the same level of reward to their opponents as every other class. Imagine if, simply by playing an elementalist, you denied your opponents the chance to receive loot rewards. It’s basically that, but with WXP instead.

Regardless, ArenaNet purposefully made WXP reset upon being rallied, rather than being killed, which is why this seems to me more like an unfortunate consequence of their design, rather than an outright bug. Why they went this route is beyond me, but the disparity between elementalists and other professions deserves to be addressed. To fix it, they’d either need to make Vapor Form not trigger the rallied effect, or to simply make WXP rewards reset upon death. Personally, I think the latter is a far better option.

Well, I play WvW quite a lot, but I never noticed this.. -.-
Never too old to learn, it seems..

I don’t think that it should act like this, so it seems to be a bug, so best to bug report it and maybe make a thread in the Game Bugs section of the forums..

Tribio.8531:

Well, I play WvW quite a lot, but I never noticed this.. -.-
Never too old to learn, it seems..

I don’t think that it should act like this, so it seems to be a bug, so best to bug report it and maybe make a thread in the Game Bugs section of the forums..

Just make sure you are not too vague when reporting it

otherwise we will all have to start playing ele’s until a Dev notices he is not getting wxp

As an engineer with possibly the worst downed skills in the game, all I can do is shake my head about the inability of one team of balancing professionals to talk to another team and actually raise concerns about the issues with mistform, vengeance, etc. with regard to implementing a new system of XP.

It’s almost like they don’t test things.

kitten eles owe me so many bags!

IMO the fix isn’t in mist form but in rally itself. They shouldn’t reset the counter on rally but on the true death.

As an Ele main, I had no idea this bug existed….

Does this affect the actual utility skill as well, or just the downed skill? I run Mist Form all the time, and use it frequently. If this bug affects the utility skill as well, that means I’m constantly resetting my WXP counter, which is totally unfair to anyone who manages to kill me.

I also don’t think it’s a problem with Mist Form itself, but there’s no way it should count as a rally in the WXP calculation. Since Mist Form is really the only useful downed skill we have, I’d rather not see it nerfed or removed.

Vick.6805:

As an Ele main, I had no idea this bug existed….

Does this affect the actual utility skill as well, or just the downed skill? I run Mist Form all the time, and use it frequently. If this bug affects the utility skill as well, that means I’m constantly resetting my WXP counter, which is totally unfair to anyone who manages to kill me.

Just the downed skill Vapor Form I’m sure, for reasons described above, where the WXP counter is reset when a player rallies, and Vapor Form is considered a rally apparently.

To me, the issue is actually more about the reset on rally. No way it should work that way. I don’t care how many times a player is downed and rallies … the counter should only reset when spiked or killed via damage while in downed state.

So maybe this whole discussion should change from a focus on Ele Vapor Form to the reset on rally (assuming it indeed is working this way).

Stormleaf.1769:

Okay, so I guess I was wrong about this being common knowledge. Let’s clear a few things up for people who are still confused.

Currently, the (0-60) WXP you get for defeating a player will reset to 0 whenever a player rallies, not when they die. This applies to all classes. Any player that has stayed alive long enough to be worth WXP will immediately be worth 0 upon rallying from any source, for any reason. It’s easily testable (go find and down any profession, let them rally, then down and kill them; they’ll give you zero WXP), and it strikes me as a design choice on ArenaNet’s part, rather than a bug.

The issue is that elementalists, and only elementalists, have an instantly-available downed ability (Vapor Form) that briefly rallies them, thus negating their WXP reward. There is NO counter to this once an elementalist is downed, meaning that they are the only class that never has to give their opponents WXP when defeated.

This thread is not an argument about the balance of elementalists in actual combat. It’s an argument about elementalists not needing to provide the same level of reward to their opponents as every other class. Imagine if, simply by playing an elementalist, you denied your opponents the chance to receive loot rewards. It’s basically that, but with WXP instead.

Regardless, ArenaNet purposefully made WXP reset upon being rallied, rather than being killed, which is why this seems to me more like an unfortunate consequence of their design, rather than an outright bug. Why they went this route is beyond me, but the disparity between elementalists and other professions deserves to be addressed. To fix it, they’d either need to make Vapor Form not trigger the rallied effect, or to simply make WXP rewards reset upon death. Personally, I think the latter is a far better option.

don’t be tryin’ to confuse people with those fancy “fact” things, or that newfangled “logic” stuff. this here is the internet. you gotta say an opinion, fight tooth and nail to demand that it’s undeniable truth, add in a few buzzwords, then declare yourself to be in the majority of the playerbase to really bring it home. some mindless rage will go a long way to.

try it like this: ele’s OP uberlewt NERF pwnage THIEF HATE HATE HATE LEET and EVERYONE agrees with ME cause it got electrolytes!!!

you might feel your brain shrivel up and die a bit after you’ve typed it. that’s ok, that’s normal. simply use massive amounts of caffeine to help you ignore it. now, after typing something like that, you may look at it and realize that it makes no sense whatsoever, and in no way contributes to anything even resembling the conversation. that’s ok. this here is the internet. that’s the whole point.

(on a serious note, i completely agree with what you wrote in your post)

This is true, I tested it today with an ele friend from sor. Every 10-15 minutes of him roaming without getting downed he would let me kill him. All 4 times he gave 0 wpx.

Sounds like a bug. Guessing Warrior ‘Vengeance’? does the same though theirs isn’t instacast. I’ll report next time I’m playing and if person who downed me actually accepts chat invite for them to report too.

Vapor Form has been acting strangely on and off for a long time. In spvp if an elementalist uses it, then the kill credit log thing on the side will show that the elementalist killed themselves with it rather than being killed by an opposing player.

I feel like maybe the best option would be to just throw out Vapor Form altogether, and replace it with something else decent. Aside from the plethora of bugs, the fact is that it’s only useful in a couple specific scenarios (if you can get into a tower — which many consider OP — or if you can get into water so that you have more useful downed abilities, or if you can get far enough behind allied lines). A lot of the time it’s just a slight delay on how long it takes to die and then respawn.

Thalfon.1269:

I feel like maybe the best option would be to just throw out Vapor Form altogether, and replace it with something else decent. Aside from the plethora of bugs, the fact is that it’s only useful in a couple specific scenarios (if you can get into a tower — which many consider OP — or if you can get into water so that you have more useful downed abilities, or if you can get far enough behind allied lines). A lot of the time it’s just a slight delay on how long it takes to die and then respawn.

It’s also a second full cleanse when the duration ends.

Thalfon.1269:

A lot of the time it’s just a slight delay on how long it takes to die and then respawn.

Just like everyone else you mean?

Seriously, thats what the 2# ability is. You avoid a stomp and buy yourself a little more time to get help from allies.
Some professions have a vastly superior 2# ability, that lets them avoid more stomps at once from multiple targets under more circumstances. Like the Elementalist.

This is still an ongoing issue. I’m sure everyone but the elementalists would enjoy to see this problem fixed. But while we’re on the subject of equality… Take away their ability to mist form through a tower door, just so they can die like everyone else.

Just get rid of downed state altogether…

All the downed states have their pros and cons, get over it. The WXP thing is clearly a bug.